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Frauds, Scams & Cons (General; Miscellaneous)

catseye said:
The problem with this is that people being spammed DO think they know the source. Either someone impersonating someone they know or by the spammer building up a rapport with them first (as in dating scams). So they often don't think they are being scammed, they are just helping out a friend who finds themselves in dire straits.
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Certainly possible but it still amazes me how people are quite prepared to hand over personal details to complete strangers.
 
I am cautious/over-cautious over scams - I know how plausible they can be. The ones we hear of sound blatant but, as a money-spinner, they're cheap to run and all it takes is for one person to 'bite' to make it worthwhile.
I think those who say "I can't be manipulated" are easier to manipulate because they're confident in their wisdom.
 
Stormkhan said:
I am cautious/over-cautious over scams
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Ditto and if others were, scams wouldn't work. Following a few simple rules will defeat most scams. However there have been cases where the scam involves intrusion into a perfectly legitimate transaction. A classic example has been during house sales when solicitors deal by E mail. The buyer gets a communication purporting to be from the solicitor giving details for payment so the buyer follows these instructions only for the money to disappear because the transaction has been intercepted by a scammer. Obviously involves inside information. There are variations on this particular fraud as well.
I'm in the process of drawing the attention of the relevant authorities to a scam involving fictitious meter readings taken by these so called Data Collection agencies acting for energy companies where in fact no meter readings have been taken by them. Scams take all sorts of forms.
 
PeteS said:
Ditto and if others were, scams wouldn't work. Following a few simple rules will defeat most scams. However there have been cases where the scam involves intrusion into a perfectly legitimate transaction. A classic example has been during house sales when solicitors deal by E mail. The buyer gets a communication purporting to be from the solicitor giving details for payment so the buyer follows these instructions only for the money to disappear because the transaction has been intercepted by a scammer. Obviously involves inside information. There are variations on this particular fraud as well.
I'm in the process of drawing the attention of the relevant authorities to a scam involving fictitious meter readings taken by these so called Data Collection agencies acting for energy companies where in fact no meter readings have been taken by them. Scams take all sorts of forms.
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I was so paranoid when I bought my house that I made my solicitor phone me when they money hit their account, just so that I could check that it had gone to the right person! I bought my house in four separate transactions (I was a cash buyer), so they had to ring me four times - which they patiently did, despite obviously thinking I was a nutcase.
 
PeteS said:
Ditto and if others were, scams wouldn't work. Following a few simple rules will defeat most scams.
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As I keep telling the Mil/Fil, there is absolutely no need to open the door to anyone at any time of the day (unless they're expecting a delivery/parcel etc), and yet they still do it.
 
When I was at work, if I were called by a firm to 'sell' something over the 'phone, I'd suggest they send it to me in writing before I make a firm decision. There was never any follow-up communication. Only once did someone insist that I confirm, over the 'phone, that I was 'pencilling in' my firm's interest; I laughed and said "I'll pencil in something that's given to me in writing and not before!"
When it came to business, we never did business with cold-calls, unsolicited emails, or door-to-door sales agents. When I explained our policy, one caller declared "Well, if you don't deal with online sales, you're limiting who you do business with!" to which I replied "Precisely!" and rang off. Same bloke rang back twice before he stopped.
 
I think it's easy to think we won't fall for scams when some of them are so obvious and blatent, I mean, who does still fall for the Nigerian Prince or those American emails that tell you someone has left you a million dollars? Some must, but not many. The emails go straight into my spam folder and I didn't even realise they were a thing until I went over there to clear out the folder.

The scams to be aware of are the ones that catch you when you're distracted. When you're expecting something similar and aren't quite on the ball. Anyone can have a moment when they are full of cold, in the middle of a conversation with relatives about a troublesome family member, trying to make a shopping list and awaiting the delivery of a parcel. Any one of these things alone and we'd probably investigate that iffy text telling us we had to pay for insufficient delivery on the parcel. All of them together and we just might give away payment details, because we're not concentrating and it seems likely.

I was poorly, wondering whether to ring in sick to work, dealing with a relative's poor mental health, trying to co ordinate deliveries to various people for Christmas and my publishers will keep sending me publicity material without telling me it's coming, leaving me wondering what the hell this 'parcel scheduled for delivery' might be. So when I got a text telling me that a parcel couldn't be delivered and I needed to contact the delivery firm and pay for redelivery... I very very nearly just gave them the details.

It was ONLY the fact that the delivery firm told me that 'Kevin' had been unable to make the delivery that stopped me. I know the name of our delivery person for that firm, and it's not Kevin. And our delivery bloke puts things in the shed, he doesn't need me to be in. And because that stopped me, I thought 'what the hell, nobody needs to pay for redelivery!' and I deleted the text.

I am very 'scam aware' But I am also often very busy. And things slip past you...
 
catseye said:
The scams to be aware of are the ones that catch you when you're distracted. When you're expecting something similar and aren't quite on the ball. Anyone can have a moment when they are full of cold, in the middle of a conversation
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The one I am very wary of and yet many people aren't, is when a stranger comes up to me in the street and starts talking/asking a question. I turn with my back against the wall and look out for a second person loitering nearby, as this is often the way robberies are carried out.
 
Floyd1 said:
The one I am very wary of and yet many people aren't, is when a stranger comes up to me in the street and starts talking/asking a question. I turn with my back against the wall and look out for a second person loitering nearby, as this is often the way robberies are carried out.
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...and this would never occur to me. I live somewhere very quiet, where most strangers coming up and talking are tourists who are lost or are asking about a particular feature. Robbery wouldn't even cross my mind.
 
catseye said:
...and this would never occur to me. I live somewhere very quiet, where most strangers coming up and talking are tourists who are lost or are asking about a particular feature. Robbery wouldn't even cross my mind.
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It wouldn't have done me either at one point, being a country bumpkin in a previous life.
It's only through dealing with the lower echelons of society in recent years that I have become much more wary/untrusting

Yes, unlikely to happen up your way I would think though.
 
catseye said:
I think it's easy to think we won't fall for scams when some of them are so obvious and blatent, I mean, who does still fall for the Nigerian Prince or those American emails that tell you someone has left you a million dollars? Some must, but not many. The emails go straight into my spam folder and I didn't even realise they were a thing until I went over there to clear out the folder.
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The thing is, the blatant scams do still catch a small number of people which is why they still run them.

There are far deeper and more subtle scams which can be so good people never notice they've been had - as a relatively trivial example fake charities that ask for small donations. Much better to get a fiver off a thousand people than five thousand off one, if you're planning to run the scheme for a while.
 
catseye said:
I was so paranoid when I bought my house that I made my solicitor phone me when they money hit their account, just so that I could check that it had gone to the right person! I bought my house in four separate transactions (I was a cash buyer), so they had to ring me four times - which they patiently did, despite obviously thinking I was a nutcase.
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Not at all. My lawyer told me that her assistant X would call me with the bank information. And they confirmed when the wire appeared. This was standard.
 
catseye said:
...and this would never occur to me. I live somewhere very quiet, where most strangers coming up and talking are tourists who are lost or are asking about a particular feature. Robbery wouldn't even cross my mind.
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I had a 'lively' growing up in London, during the 70's and 80's, and as a consequence I have automatic habits: I can't bear sitting with my back to a room, especially a pub or a crowd; I always keep an eye on exits; I step away from strangers who stop me in a street, putting my back to a wall or tree if I can. It's not a rabid distrust of strangers, just an instinctive behaviour to guard against pickpockets and muggers.
Conmen, on the other hand, are wise to the approaches required to con. You get the 'victim' to approach you, as this indicates a predisposition to 'talking to strangers' and, therefore, more trusting.
 
Cochise said:
The thing is, the blatant scams do still catch a small number of people which is why they still run them.

There are far deeper and more subtle scams which can be so good people never notice they've been had - as a relatively trivial example fake charities that ask for small donations. Much better to get a fiver off a thousand people than five thousand off one, if you're planning to run the scheme for a while.
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Exactly. There was a scam local to me involving a charity. It had a very similar name to a national charity and I was wary because of this so refused to contribute when approached. Turned out that 99% of what was collected ended up in a company directors account as "expenses". he being the sole director. I no longer put money into charity collections in the street but contribute in other ways.
 
catseye said:
I think it's easy to think we won't fall for scams when some of them are so obvious and blatent, I mean, who does still fall for the Nigerian Prince or those American emails that tell you someone has left you a million dollars? Some must, but not many. The emails go straight into my spam folder and I didn't even realise they were a thing until I went over there to clear out the folder.

The scams to be aware of are the ones that catch you when you're distracted. When you're expecting something similar and aren't quite on the ball. Anyone can have a moment when they are full of cold, in the middle of a conversation with relatives about a troublesome family member, trying to make a shopping list and awaiting the delivery of a parcel. Any one of these things alone and we'd probably investigate that iffy text telling us we had to pay for insufficient delivery on the parcel. All of them together and we just might give away payment details, because we're not concentrating and it seems likely.

I was poorly, wondering whether to ring in sick to work, dealing with a relative's poor mental health, trying to co ordinate deliveries to various people for Christmas and my publishers will keep sending me publicity material without telling me it's coming, leaving me wondering what the hell this 'parcel scheduled for delivery' might be. So when I got a text telling me that a parcel couldn't be delivered and I needed to contact the delivery firm and pay for redelivery... I very very nearly just gave them the details.

It was ONLY the fact that the delivery firm told me that 'Kevin' had been unable to make the delivery that stopped me. I know the name of our delivery person for that firm, and it's not Kevin. And our delivery bloke puts things in the shed, he doesn't need me to be in. And because that stopped me, I thought 'what the hell, nobody needs to pay for redelivery!' and I deleted the text.

I am very 'scam aware' But I am also often very busy. And things slip past you...
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Yes that is when you have to be extra vigilant. I've mentioned before that Ms P stressed out at work and worried about her health fell for the SKY £320 refund scam. Unfortunately I was out at the time and got back just as the conversation was ending, but the scammer had scanned the entire contents of her laptop by this time. She was distraught when I told her it was a scam, but her bank immediately froze her account, changed everything and nothing came of it. It didn't stop the scammer trying again a couple of weeks later when I answered having forgotten to unplug the house phone. I suggested in which orifice to stick his refund.
 
PeteS said:
Exactly. There was a scam local to me involving a charity. It had a very similar name to a national charity and I was wary because of this so refused to contribute when approached. Turned out that 99% of what was collected ended up in a company directors account as "expenses". he being the sole director. I no longer put money into charity collections in the street but contribute in other ways.
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This was one of the major complaints about 'chuggers'*, apart from the harassment. They were all employed by private firms who, took out wages, expenses etc. and passed on a small percentage to the idiot charities who employed them. The idea of giving your personal information, especially bank details, to a complete stranger on the street was completely ridiculous to me. Once, when I'd been stopped in the street by a couple of students, earning a bit of money by being chuggers, I pointed out this stupidity.
"But we work for a professional firm. Look, we have identity badges!"
"You're bright. You can see the problem. I could make myself a laminated I.D. badge for anything in about 15 minutes from now!"
"You're not trusting, are you?"
"Nope. Not with complete strangers who want my money!"

* Chuggers - Charity muggers, see? I think they've largely died out now.
 
Stormkhan said:
This was one of the major complaints about 'chuggers'*, apart from the harassment. They were all employed by private firms who, took out wages, expenses etc. and passed on a small percentage to the idiot charities who employed them. The idea of giving your personal information, especially bank details, to a complete stranger on the street was completely ridiculous to me. Once, when I'd been stopped in the street by a couple of students, earning a bit of money by being chuggers, I pointed out this stupidity.
"But we work for a professional firm. Look, we have identity badges!"
"You're bright. You can see the problem. I could make myself a laminated I.D. badge for anything in about 15 minutes from now!"
"You're not trusting, are you?"
"Nope. Not with complete strangers who want my money!"

* Chuggers - Charity muggers, see? I think they've largely died out now.
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This same argument - 'look, I'm wearing a work top with a logo and an identity badge!' is sometimes used by purchasers of alcohol and cigarettes to somehow 'prove' they are over 18. They literally boggle at me when I point out that they could be wearing anyone's logo'd top and name badge, it doesn't prove that they work there!
 
Stormkhan said:
* Chuggers - Charity muggers, see? I think they've largely died out now.
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Died out? Where do you live? In my local high street, it's a different crew every day of the week. Or, more likely, the same people just wearing different T-shirts each day. Monday - Cancer. Tuesday - African kiddies. Wednesday - Tigers. And so it goes on.
 
catseye said:
This same argument - 'look, I'm wearing a work top with a logo and an identity badge!' is sometimes used by purchasers of alcohol and cigarettes to somehow 'prove' they are over 18. They literally boggle at me when I point out that they could be wearing anyone's logo'd top and name badge, it doesn't prove that they work there!
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Clip-board and flourescent jacket is all that's needed. I reckon you'd get into MI6 dressed that way.
 
The last time I spotted them, it was in Nottingham city center about 2010. The city clamped down on them because of complaints.
They'd stick out a mile in the tiny seaside town I'm in now, but even in nearby Scarborough or York I've seen none.
 
In retail, it's a clipboard and brown overalls/coat. I've several anecdotes ... :)
Though, you get a bigger return using a smart suit and your own cash register. ;)
 
catseye said:
This same argument - 'look, I'm wearing a work top with a logo and an identity badge!' is sometimes used by purchasers of alcohol and cigarettes to somehow 'prove' they are over 18. They literally boggle at me when I point out that they could be wearing anyone's logo'd top and name badge, it doesn't prove that they work there!
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Many times l’ve been browsing in charity shops and seen a row of unused logoed T-shirts or sweatshirts being sold off, apparently because the named firm has “rebranded”, or the specific trade show or exhibition is over.

Prime kit for scammers.

maximus otter
 
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