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Hillsborough: Anatomy Of A Government Cover-Up

ChrisBoardman said:
To be fair, three ambulances came on the pitch. One ambulance driver criticised other drivers for staying in their vehicles outside the ground when they could have come in on foot.

Many of the issues during the game were about bad organisation and communication. That can be forgiven if you learn from it.

But by the time the corruption started it was too late to save any of the lives. And the corruption was the police, not the hospitals.
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I didn't blame the ambulance people. as far as I know, it was the police that prevented more ambulances coming on the pitch. I doubt that the ambulance drivers would ignore police orders when they couldn't see the extent of the disaster.

The cover up was already under way, according to the previous BBC documentary, by 5 pm, after Dukinfield had been discovered in an apparently disoriented state. As well he might be. I don't particularly blame him or any other police for making mistakes leading up to the disaster, principal blame is to higher authorities for not learning the lessons of the previous crush incident at Leppings Lane, having an inexperienced man in charge, and for holding a match which was bound to be an enormous attraction in a ground without a safety certificate. The response to the disaster is more questionable. Was there any sort of disaster planning? When were all the police aware that it was a crush and not a pitch invasion? And it goes on and on.
 
It seems like the Manchester Arena bombing has some similarities. People with responsibilities not taking those responsibilities seriously.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...a-bombing-2017-inquiry-report-police-victims/

One wonders if those entrusted with the security of those attending the concert were truly engaged with them as people or, like some of the officials at Hillsborough, thought they were irresponsible people that needed to be herded rather than respected.
 
Cochise said:
It seems like the Manchester Arena bombing has some similarities. People with responsibilities not taking those responsibilities seriously.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...a-bombing-2017-inquiry-report-police-victims/

One wonders if those entrusted with the security of those attending the concert were truly engaged with them as people or, like some of the officials at Hillsborough, thought they were irresponsible people that needed to be herded rather than respected.
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I heard on the news this morning that 2 of the 4 British Transport Police officers, including the supervising officer, that were on duty (and awarded medals) went 10 miles to get some pizzas on a 2 hour lunch break, at the time the bomber entered the arena.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-54597700
 
After finishing a St John's Ambulance First Aid requalifier course (~20 years ago), a small group of us stayed behind talking to the Examiner. We were discussing the importance of the Recovery Position ie positioning a patient on their side with chin forward to let the tongue fall out of the way and keep the airways open. Reluctantly she spoke of the Hillsborough disaster - the police were moving the casualties from the stands onto the pitch where she and her team had organised the triage ie determining the priority ambulance cases.
I haven't seen the Hillsborough documentaries, I only know an overview of the enquiries from the Newspapers. Some blame seemed apportioned to the ambulance response time, which didn't strike me as fair as an ambulance can only carry one patient. If you have 150 patients then you need 150 ambulances making their way to the Ground, then they need to reach a hospital, unload the patient and turn round.
Anyway, my Examiner was positioning the casualties in the Recovery Position in a long long line down the pitch. She glanced up and noticed that the police had allowed the other spectators to roam the grounds. They were looking for friends and loved ones amongst the casualties, but it is difficult to see a face properly when positioned on its side. So they (a tear in her eye as she explained) started at the beginning of the line to roll the patient onto their back to look at their face (a very natural and human thing to do) and then move on to the next patient without moving them back into position.
I don't know whether this was mentioned in the enquiry, I can understand there is little to gain in families desperately seeking closure being made aware that they might have been instrumental in the death of another person's loved one.
 
Bad Bungle said:
After finishing a St John's Ambulance First Aid requalifier course (~20 years ago), a small group of us stayed behind talking to the Examiner. We were discussing the importance of the Recovery Position ie positioning a patient on their side with chin forward to let the tongue fall out of the way and keep the airways open. Reluctantly she spoke of the Hillsborough disaster - the police were moving the casualties from the stands onto the pitch where she and her team had organised the triage ie determining the priority ambulance cases.
I haven't seen the Hillsborough documentaries, I only know an overview of the enquiries from the Newspapers. Some blame seemed apportioned to the ambulance response time, which didn't strike me as fair as an ambulance can only carry one patient. If you have 150 patients then you need 150 ambulances making their way to the Ground, then they need to reach a hospital, unload the patient and turn round.
Anyway, my Examiner was positioning the casualties in the Recovery Position in a long long line down the pitch. She glanced up and noticed that the police had allowed the other spectators to roam the grounds. They were looking for friends and loved ones amongst the casualties, but it is difficult to see a face properly when positioned on its side. So they (a tear in her eye as she explained) started at the beginning of the line to roll the patient onto their back to look at their face (a very natural and human thing to do) and then move on to the next patient without moving them back into position.
I don't know whether this was mentioned in the enquiry, I can understand there is little to gain in families desperately seeking closure being made aware that they might have been instrumental in the death of another person's loved one.
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It's quite clear from the enquiries that the situation completely snowballed out of police control while those in charge froze. Of course the scale of the disaster was beyond the experience of anyone involved after the initial mistakes at the Leppings Lane entrance.

The attempted cover-up and what we would now politely call misinformation afterwards, however, was indefensible.
 
They still don't understand what they should be apologising for. The events on the day were because of an inadequate commander faced with an unprecedented situation. That happens, he's not a criminal. What the police should apologise for is the cover up, the intimidation, the destruction of records, and the attempt to libel an entire city to cover up an understandable sequence of errors.
 
I've seen the phrase 'conspiracy theory' used in relation to this tragedy, but I suspect that if there was a cover up, it's more likely to be as a result of a mindset than a conspiracy. Conspiracies need a lot of planning, and key people would need to have been told to act in a certain way. Whereas a mindset of disrespect for certain members of society can spread more easily, influence more people and probably do more harm.
 
TheLeeds said:
I've seen the phrase 'conspiracy theory' used in relation to this tragedy, but I suspect that if there was a cover up, it's more likely to be as a result of a mindset than a conspiracy. Conspiracies need a lot of planning, and key people would need to have been told to act in a certain way. Whereas a mindset of disrespect for certain members of society can spread more easily, influence more people and probably do more harm.
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I agree with you.

My distinction:

Conspiracy: proactive and premeditated collusion among multiple parties before the commission of an act in which those parties are themselves involved.

Cover-up: reactive collusion after an act has occured without the necessity for direct involvement by the parties seeking to conceal it.
 
Cochise said:
They still don't understand what they should be apologising for. The events on the day were because of an inadequate commander faced with an unprecedented situation. That happens, he's not a criminal. What the police should apologise for is the cover up, the intimidation, the destruction of records, and the attempt to libel an entire city to cover up an understandable sequence of errors.
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I agree but it is incredibly sad that the immediate reaction of Authorities to events such as that (Grenfell/ Arena etc) still fall incredibly short in terms of saving people and the subsequent default response is "Not our fault".
 
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