Improbable Derren Brown Stunt

[Zeke Newbold]

This has bugged me for years.

You may recall that back in the early noughties - circa 2004 or thereabpouts - the illusionist and confidence trickster Derren Brown was a big name on television. This was on the back of a TV series in which he performed a series of fiendish stunts on members of the public, usually involving mind games of some sort.

A few came my way, as I'm sure they did yours (if you live or lived in the UK, that is). These stunts were usually entertaining and sometimes insightful - and I never doubted their essential truthfulness. Anyway, Mr Brown himself, in numerous interviews, has always insisted that he doesn't use actors or anything like stand-ins in these shows and that WYSIWYG.

But...but, there exists one episode that has always puzzled me - and made me doubt his claim. I'll try to recount the contents as best as I can remember them - some sixteen years later.

The unwitting victim this time was a computer games buff. He had been invited to try out a `new game` by a supposed computer game company (which was really a front for You Know Who). The location was a coffee bar and the game being `road tested` was installed into a arcade game like terminal in a corner of the bar. The game itself consisted of the standard shoot 'em up Zombie fayre.

Brown then explained - as an aside to the viewer - that he was going to put the player in to a trance using strobe lights built into the game - and then trick him into thinking that he was inside the game itself. So the player - a nondescript young man in his twenties - began the game and soon flashing synchronised lights appeared on the screen which - lo and behold! - did indeed put the man into a mild trance of some kind!

The man - who was kind of catatonic - was then lowered horizontally onto a stretcher and then wheeled to a building acoss the road where he was taken into a room mocked up to resemble the interior used in the game. Then, actors done up to look like zombies began to advance towards him and, in an excited state, he began to shoot at them with some sort of would-be ray gun that he had been given.

Then a klaxon or horn of some kind was sounded - a low single note - and this somehow had the effect of putting him back in the trance, whereupon he was whisked back to the coffee bar next door, raised upright and returned to the computer game. Then the same horn was sounded - and this time it released him from the trance.

He was then interviewed about what he thought of the game and he was very enthused, saying that it made you feel that you `were right in there` (he was of course unaware of what had been done to him).

That's the best memory of it I can offer - some minor details might be jumbled up (I'm a bit unclear about the exact role of the flashing lights and the klaxon/horn - but I'm sure that both featured in there somewhere).

This seems highly unlikely to be an event which happened as depicted for the following to reasons: (1) It seems to me that a random person would not be reliably susceptible to being put in an induced trance with flashing lights - and taken out of it with a horn. If it were that easy, I'm sure the medical establishment - and the military for that matter- would know all about it and be busy putting it to use. And (b) carrying out such a stunt on an unsuspecting memeber of the public would be illegal as well as in breach of various Health and Safety regulations - any such participant would have had to have signed various consent forms in advance and take medical tests and hence would have had to have been in on the proceedings from the get - go.

Thoughts?

 

[Zeke Newbold]

And by way of a postscipt to the above, here's a rather engaging chap who has been one of Brown's fall guys in the past - and he seems to testify that Brown does - at the very least - cut a few corners in terms of showing what really happens.

(Warning though: he ends up trying to sell you coffee!)

 

[GNC]

I remember that, but before you doubt, also remember that people are a lot more gullible than they believe they are, so don't discount the premise. He seemed genuinely thrilled at the time.

 

[Fluttermoth]

...confidence trickster Derren Brown

'Confidence trickster? Really? I don't see why, he's not conning people, certainly no more than any other illusionist anyway

(1) It seems to me that a random person would not be reliably susceptible to being put in an induced trance with flashing lights - and taken out of it with a horn. If it were that easy, I'm sure the medical establishment - and the military for that matter- would know all about it and be busy putting it to use.

I'm fairly sure I've read somewhere (maybe even in one of Derren's books) that the flashing lights etc are just stage setting, the actual 'hypnosis' is something entirely different. We also don't know how many failures there were before he got a receptive subject

And (b) carrying out such a stunt on an unsuspecting member of the public would be illegal as well as in breach of various Health and Safety regulations - any such participant would have had to have signed various consent forms in advance and take medical tests and hence would have had to have been in on the proceedings from the get - go.

Thoughts?

He possibly wasn't completely unsuspecting; they could easily have informed anyone entering that there was filming for something, or for a Derren Brown special, without telling them the details.

 

[Ladyloafer]

I dont recall the episode myself but it could be this one
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown-trick-of-the-mind/on-demand/38882-004

On wiki it says
Waking Dead episodeEdit
In an episode first broadcast on Friday 6 May 2005, Brown claimed to have created a video game called "Waking Dead" which "is able to put roughly 1/3 of the people who play it into a catatonic trance". The video game is then placed in a pub. Brown then "kidnaps" the catatonic "victim" and places him in a real-life recreation of the video game, having him fire a paintball marker at actors pretending to be zombies and outfitted with explosive squibs.[2]

So i do wonder how many people they tried it on. How many people completely freak out and they pull the plug quickly or people who were so pissed off they refused permission to be used in the broadcast?

 

[LymeswoldSnork]

This is the one which I've always thought was his masterpiece. ("Mind my back" at 5:24...)

 

[joeosker]

Always thought , if it was as described , he went a bit to far with that one

 

[James_H]

I once met a professional magician who seemed to have the 'inside dope' on a lot of the magic scene, and he was adamant that Derren Brown misrepresented the techniques he used for his tricks. Think of it as an additional layer of magic...

 

[Mr. Banooka]

At the start of every show Derren pretty much admits it is all trickery. He tells you that no stooges or actors are used, but then tells you he uses misdirection and trickery. In my mind telling you he uses misdirection and trickery is him admitting he has just lied to you about not using stooges or actors. Though to me it doesn't in any way take away my enjoyment. He is an exceptionally good stage magician and illusionist that uses the guise of a hypnotist and mind reader as his shtick.

Hasn't he also mentioned before that he casts out for volunteers and essentially auditions them to see who is suggestible, then plants the suggestions in earlier to be activated later. Again, this could all be misdirection and trickery.

I was fortunate to be chosen to be on stage as a witness on one of his shows at the Lowry and still can't work out how he pulled of the "surgery" trick he did. My guess would be sleight of hand, but I have no idea where he was storing the meat he was pulling out of the patients stomach through his skin. I have seen the trick performed before with small amounts of meat, but this was lots of meat!

My wife "my wife" hates watching magicians, saying that they are "just conning you". This makes me laugh so much and my response is always "of course they are; they're not really magic". The only magic shows I think she has enjoyed were going to see Penn and Teller in Las Vegas and a show we saw in Corfu on holiday once in the hotel, where we could see how he was doing all of the tricks because of where we were sat. The magician kept turning to us as we were laughing with a big grin on his face putting his finger to his lips.

 

[Trevp666]

Maybe this should go in Jokes and Humour bit I feel it fits here;

A traveling salesman visits a small town in the Midwest and sees a circus banner reading, 'Don't Miss the Amazing Goldstein!'
Curious, he buys a ticket and sits through the usual circus acts: animals, clowns, contortionists, etc.
Suddenly, trumpets blare and all eyes turn to the center ring.
There in the middle of the ring is a table with three walnuts on it.
In comes a little old Jewish man, five feet tall and barely able to walk to the table.
He unzips his pants, whips out his long shlong, and proceeds to smash all three walnuts with three mighty swings!
The crowd erupts in thunderous applause as the elderly Goldstein is carried off on the shoulders of the clowns.

Twenty years later the salesman visits the same little town and he sees a faded sign for the same circus and the same 'Don't Miss the Amazing Goldstein.'

He can't believe the old guy is still alive much less still doing his act!
So he buys a ticket and sits through various acts.
Finally, the center ring is illuminated.
This time, instead of walnuts, three coconuts are on the table.
As before, old Goldstein takes forever to make it to the table.
He unzips his fly and proceeds to smash the coconuts with three swings of his amazing shlong.

The crowd goes wild! The salesman requests a meeting with him after the show.
In Goldstein's dressing room, the salesman tells him he's never seen anything like his act.
But he wants to know why he's now smashing coconuts instead of the much easier walnuts.
"Well," says Goldstein,
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
. "my eyes aren't what they used to be!"

 

[LymeswoldSnork]

My wife "my wife" hates watching magicians, saying that they are "just conning you". This makes me laugh so much and my response is always "of course they are; they're not really magic". The only magic shows I think she has enjoyed were going to see Penn and Teller in Las Vegas and a show we saw in Corfu on holiday once in the hotel, where we could see how he was doing all of the tricks because of where we were sat. The magician kept turning to us as we were laughing with a big grin on his face putting his finger to his lips.

I think it's better when you know how they're doing it; perhaps if they do it a second time without hiding the trickery. That way, you can appreciate the skill and imagination which goes into it, whereas there's nothing clever about apparently just breaking all the laws of physics because you can.

 

[Ringo]

Zeke, I've sent you a PM.

 

[Trevp666]

I delivered some framed art to Mr Browns residence above Baker Street tube station once, several years ago.
It was a lovely tidy place. There were some unusual items in display cases in his hallway. Nothing untoward.
I particularly remember what appeared to be the skeleton of a velociraptor (or similar dinosaur) in a glass case.
Other than that the furnishings were what you might expect of a Victorian gentleman.

 

[escargot]

Other than that the furnishings were what you might expect of a Victorian gentleman.

TOTALLY normal then.

 

[Trevp666]

TOTALLY normal then.

Absolutely.
I didn't get to have a look around the whole place (obvs) but it would not have surprised me at all if the lounge was something akin to an 1870s London Gentlemans Club, with decanters of booze on small ornate wheeled tables, and leather covered 'wingback' armchairs, and a collection of animal heads hanging on the walls.
It had that sort of atmosphere about the place.

 

[gordonrutter]

Absolutely.
I didn't get to have a look around the whole place (obvs) but it would not have surprised me at all if the lounge was something akin to an 1870s London Gentlemans Club, with decanters of booze on small ornate wheeled tables, and leather covered 'wingback' armchairs, and a collection of animal heads hanging on the walls.
It had that sort of atmosphere about the place.

Erm,

Not too far off Trevp666

 

[Trevp666]

Well whaddya know! Yes that's the place - I only got to see the first few feet of the entrance hall. And the dinosaur skeleton appears to have been moved to a space behind a large buttoned leather sofa.
He seems like a nice enough chap. I'm sure if he had been around at the time he wouldn't have minded if I had a little look around at some of his interesting items. He seems quite proud of his collection.

 

[AlchoPwn]

'Confidence trickster? Really? I don't see why, he's not conning people, certainly no more than any other illusionist anyway

Derren Brown is not a confidence trickster, he's a hypnotist, cold reader and stage magician. While it is possible he could make more money (dishonestly)as a con artist, I am glad he has chosen not to, and instead makes a living as an entertainer. I am something of a fan of his. I am also glad that he does cut corners in showing how he preps his subjects for a show. Do you really want psychopaths to discover his tricks for finding susceptible people and then exploit them?

 

[Ladyloafer]

I've never watched any of his shows but i read his Tricks of the mind book years ago. I remember it being fascinating and funny.
One story about how suggestible people are, from i think his student days. I read this quite sometime ago so i dont recall all the specifics.
He and a friend spread a tale about how a giant exotic spider had escaped from the nearby zoo. This rumour spread a while. They then placed a crude fake spider out of reach in a shopping centre and started pointing it out. Once people were aware of the spider, people would see it move. 'Ooh you should've been here ten minutes ago when it ran across the beam'. Local papers got involved. Zoo denied loss of any critter. People assumed they were lying. People kept watching the spider and reporting its movement.
But of course there was no spider.

 

[DrPaulLee]

I wouldn't say that he is a hypnotist. I am sure that I read in one of his earliest books (possibly his first one?) he describes how he is sceptical of hypnotism. Obviously I don't know how he does it, but I've seen him on stage many times and assuming that his audience members aren't stooges (!!), all he does it look at them, put his hand behind their neck - and that's it, they're gone. Their head drops and they "are under."

 

[hunck]

I wouldn't say that he is a hypnotist. I am sure that I read in one of his earliest books (possibly his first one?) he describes how he is sceptical of hypnotism. Obviously I don't know how he does it, but I've seen him on stage many times and assuming that his audience members aren't stooges (!!), all he does it look at them, put his hand behind their neck - and that's it, they're gone. Their head drops and they "are under."

What's the explanation for that then - unless they've been hypnotised or something beforehand to respond to that touch. I can't see this working on just anyone..

 

[DrPaulLee]

It seems to work most of the time. Quite often, he has a line of volunteers come up on stage for one of his routines and one by one, he greets them. Very occasionally he assesses that someone he meets he can't "use" - he apologises to them and they leave the stage. Again, I don't know how he does this. It's a matter of a handshake, a look in the eye and he makes an instant assessment. Everyone else in the line is "hypnotisable."

 

[James_H]

I once met a professional magician who seemed to have the 'inside dope' on a lot of the magic scene, and he was adamant that Derren Brown misrepresented the techniques he used for his tricks. Think of it as an additional layer of magic...

To add to this, I only watched Derren Brown when he was first on TV (love him though) and he talked a lot about using Neurolinguistic Programming to achieve his results. As far as I'm aware NLP is a crock of a scientifically unproven technique and subject to serious doubts.

 

[AlchoPwn]

I wouldn't say that he is a hypnotist. I am sure that I read in one of his earliest books (possibly his first one?) he describes how he is sceptical of hypnotism. Obviously I don't know how he does it, but I've seen him on stage many times and assuming that his audience members aren't stooges (!!), all he does it look at them, put his hand behind their neck - and that's it, they're gone. Their head drops and they "are under."

Sounds like hypnosis to me. I could be wrong. Perhaps he doses them with scopolamine or something (tongue in cheek)?

 

[Ringo]

Derren is genuinely skilled in hypnotism, I personally know that for a fact. I use the same techniques as he (and others) do.
However, there is different types of hypnotism.

Hypnotism, how it works, what it actually is and how he/I/we choose who to work with (selection onstage) are secrets which we choose not to tell but are not impossible to find out if you can be arsed to learn about hypnotism. The bit where they go under is called an Induction.
The key to quick inductions (on stage as oppossed to slow ones in private) is the power dynamic. The key is not how the "go under" but what you do when they are there.
It doesn't work on everyone. For example, a random person on the street may not go under with a quick induction. That is why we "prime" them first. However, stage inductions are different. The problem with all of this, and discussion in general of magic, mentalism and hypnotism, is that you (the audience) are unable to think of how much of an advantage we (the performers) have over you. It seems improbable and impossible until you actually think about what is happening.

For example, Derren's audience can be 2,000 people. That means 1,000 love him and know of his "powers", the other 1,000 have been invited or dragged there by spouses and are ranging from bored to impressed etc.
He does a few tests and invites up those who are suggestible. Most are from his 1,000 believers. Some are more sceptical. Some swallow it all hook, line and sinker. He then can very quickly, onstage, look and see:
1. Who will do as I say and who looks sceptical?
2. Who is willing to believe?
3. Who will not cause me any trouble?
4. Who will fulfill my purpose?
5. Who, even if they are sceptical, don't have an important role to play anyway and so can stay here for the sake of it?

He has a captive audience of believers and people who are interested in his performance style. When he qualifies volunteers, gets one up on the stage and then begins his thing, does that person want to ruin the show and be hated by 2,000 people or do they do what he wants?

Hypnotism is not just "going along with it" or pretending but there has to be a willingness to participate. No-one can be hypnotised against their will. And if you are on a night out, you've bought an expensive ticket and then YOU are the chosen one and meet the powerful magician face-to-face - wouldn't you want it to work too?

 

[Mr. Banooka]

Derren is genuinely skilled in hypnotism, I personally know that for a fact. I use the same techniques as he (and others) do.
However, there is different types of hypnotism.

Hypnotism, how it works, what it actually is and how he/I/we choose who to work with (selection onstage) are secrets which we choose not to tell but are not impossible to find out if you can be arsed to learn about hypnotism. The bit where they go under is called an Induction.
The key to quick inductions (on stage as oppossed to slow ones in private) is the power dynamic. The key is not how the "go under" but what you do when they are there.
It doesn't work on everyone. For example, a random person on the street may not go under with a quick induction. That is why we "prime" them first. However, stage inductions are different. The problem with all of this, and discussion in general of magic, mentalism and hypnotism, is that you (the audience) are unable to think of how much of an advantage we (the performers) have over you. It seems improbable and impossible until you actually think about what is happening.

For example, Derren's audience can be 2,000 people. That means 1,000 love him and know of his "powers", the other 1,000 have been invited or dragged there by spouses and are ranging from bored to impressed etc.
He does a few tests and invites up those who are suggestible. Most are from his 1,000 believers. Some are more sceptical. Some swallow it all hook, line and sinker. He then can very quickly, onstage, look and see:
1. Who will do as I say and who looks sceptical?
2. Who is willing to believe?
3. Who will not cause me any trouble?
4. Who will fulfill my purpose?
5. Who, even if they are sceptical, don't have an important role to play anyway and so can stay here for the sake of it?

He has a captive audience of believers and people who are interested in his performance style. When he qualifies volunteers, gets one up on the stage and then begins his thing, does that person want to ruin the show and be hated by 2,000 people or do they do what he wants?

Hypnotism is not just "going along with it" or pretending but there has to be a willingness to participate. No-one can be hypnotised against their will. And if you are on a night out, you've bought an expensive ticket and then YOU are the chosen one and meet the powerful magician face-to-face - wouldn't you want it to work too?

That's really interesting. I remember reading Derren's first book years ago where he talks about learning hypnotism and doing his routine around Bristol.

A funny story...Many years ago when I first heard about the horrors of Scientology I decided to do their online qualification 'test'. I figured out quite quickly that it was to weed out the people who wouldn't fall for their bull. I think it was the question "Are you susceptible to hypnotism?" that made me groan the most. Strangely, I did have a run in with Scientology back in around 1993/94 well before I knew what Scientology was. I'd purchased a used car from a dealer in Warrington, and in the materials they sent me away with was a brochure for this weird thing called Dianetics. It all sounded a bit suspect, so I just binned it. I then remembered that their sales office was littered with copies of a book with the same name. Not long after I started to get phone calls asking me if I was still interested in Dianetics. I just ended up hanging up every time they called and eventually didn't hear from them again.

 

[Mr. Banooka]

To add to this, I only watched Derren Brown when he was first on TV (love him though) and he talked a lot about using Neurolinguistic Programming to achieve his results. As far as I'm aware NLP is a crock of a scientifically unproven technique and subject to serious doubts.

One of my old bosses was really into his NLP, it really is a crock of scientifically unproven. The amount of scientifically unproven nonsense we had to go through in company meetings was ridiculous. Loads of air punching, belly bumping, hugging and telling everyone they were awesome. Quite a few female members of staff left the company because it made them feel so uncomfortable; To be fair the company owners fostered a highly misogynistic environment in the first place and the belly bumping and hugs just gave the perverts their opportunity to try it on. It was an awful place to work and was very glad when I eventually got out of there. Every time we had an anonymous survey on what we thought about the company I would bring up the rampant misogyny.

 

[PeteS]

One of my old bosses was really into his NLP, it really is a crock of scientifically unproven. The amount of scientifically unproven nonsense we had to go through in company meetings was ridiculous. Loads of air punching, belly bumping, hugging and telling everyone they were awesome. Quite a few female members of staff left the company because it made them feel so uncomfortable; To be fair the company owners fostered a highly misogynistic environment in the first place and the belly bumping and hugs just gave the perverts their opportunity to try it on. It was an awful place to work and was very glad when I eventually got out of there. Every time we had an anonymous survey on what we thought about the company I would bring up the rampant misogyny.

Pretty common through the late 80's and 90's in large companies, along with Mission Statements and all that rowlocks. So called management consultants made a large packet out of it during these times. I was amazed how many company chiefs fell for it. Thankfully seems to have largely. died a death.

 

[stu neville]

Pretty common through the late 80's and 90's in large companies, along with Mission Statements and all that rowlocks. So called management consultants made a large packet out of it during these times. I was amazed how many company chiefs fell for it. Thankfully seems to have largely. died a death.

Spot on - thankfully, like all bubbles it burst eventually. I worked very briefly for an ad agency in the late 80s, and it stopped only-just short of full-on Nathan Barley idiocy. Everyone had to buy into the basic (and highly flawed) premise, though in retrospect we all knew it was absolute gribble.

 

[Fluttermoth]

This has bugged me for years.

You may recall that back in the early noughties - circa 2004 or thereabpouts - the illusionist and confidence trickster Derren Brown was a big name on television. This was on the back of a TV series in which he performed a series of fiendish stunts on members of the public, usually involving mind games of some sort.

A few came my way, as I'm sure they did yours (if you live or lived in the UK, that is). These stunts were usually entertaining and sometimes insightful - and I never doubted their essential truthfulness. Anyway, Mr Brown himself, in numerous interviews, has always insisted that he doesn't use actors or anything like stand-ins in these shows and that WYSIWYG.

But...but, there exists one episode that has always puzzled me - and made me doubt his claim. I'll try to recount the contents as best as I can remember them - some sixteen years later.

The unwitting victim this time was a computer games buff. He had been invited to try out a `new game` by a supposed computer game company (which was really a front for You Know Who). The location was a coffee bar and the game being `road tested` was installed into a arcade game like terminal in a corner of the bar. The game itself consisted of the standard shoot 'em up Zombie fayre.

Brown then explained - as an aside to the viewer - that he was going to put the player in to a trance using strobe lights built into the game - and then trick him into thinking that he was inside the game itself. So the player - a nondescript young man in his twenties - began the game and soon flashing synchronised lights appeared on the screen which - lo and behold! - did indeed put the man into a mild trance of some kind!

The man - who was kind of catatonic - was then lowered horizontally onto a stretcher and then wheeled to a building acoss the road where he was taken into a room mocked up to resemble the interior used in the game. Then, actors done up to look like zombies began to advance towards him and, in an excited state, he began to shoot at them with some sort of would-be ray gun that he had been given.

Then a klaxon or horn of some kind was sounded - a low single note - and this somehow had the effect of putting him back in the trance, whereupon he was whisked back to the coffee bar next door, raised upright and returned to the computer game. Then the same horn was sounded - and this time it released him from the trance.

He was then interviewed about what he thought of the game and he was very enthused, saying that it made you feel that you `were right in there` (he was of course unaware of what had been done to him).

That's the best memory of it I can offer - some minor details might be jumbled up (I'm a bit unclear about the exact role of the flashing lights and the klaxon/horn - but I'm sure that both featured in there somewhere).

This seems highly unlikely to be an event which happened as depicted for the following to reasons: (1) It seems to me that a random person would not be reliably susceptible to being put in an induced trance with flashing lights - and taken out of it with a horn. If it were that easy, I'm sure the medical establishment - and the military for that matter- would know all about it and be busy putting it to use. And (b) carrying out such a stunt on an unsuspecting memeber of the public would be illegal as well as in breach of various Health and Safety regulations - any such participant would have had to have signed various consent forms in advance and take medical tests and hence would have had to have been in on the proceedings from the get - go.

Thoughts?

I just thought you might like to know that you can still watch this, if you have access to Channel 4's online player; it's Trick of the Mind, Series 2, Episode 4