Jack The Ripper (Compendium Thread)

[butterfly27]

Re:Bruce Robinson's suspect

Well done, Connors.

I remember reading, probably in the book about her trial, that Florence Maybrick's mother submitted unknown documents to Queen Victoria which had an important bearing on the case. It was after this that Florence Maybrick's sentence was commuted to life imprisonment. And incidentally the judge who presided over the trial died in a lunatic asylum. So the suspect in Robinson's book could possibly be Maybrick.

By sheer coincidence I came across this article last night. I've no idea how old the item is. Its a critical appraisal of a theory put forward by Merseyside author Tom Slemen that Claude Reignier Conder was JtR.
Also at the bottom of the page is a link to a page which gives an excellent overview of the case history and suspects put forward to date.

EDIT: This theory I've since found out is at least 18 months old. So there are probably links further back in this thread.

 

[FraterLibre]

Bravo

Bravo, Connors.

That it's political ought not be a surprise. I'm not sure switching suspects mid-stride is all that bad a thing, either, or a damage to credability, given that one might well have run across compelling reasons to switch and it'd be crankish to insist upon one's original if new information veers the investigation elsewhere.

Maybrick's possible, of course. Slemen's theory is not too shabby either, barring some small details that may after all be artifacts of sloppy research or even reporting.

Can't wait for this latest reveal-all. It's bound to be better than that Cornwell claptrap -- and isn't it intriguing that Conder is connected to Sickert via his brother Charles?

 

[JamesWhitehead]

Cousins not brothers, I think, Fraterlibre. The whole nest of Conders
is worth investigating, though I am sure the Ripper connection is
a mystification. I wish I had the leisure to do some further digging
but here is a brief overview of the clan:

http://www.btinternet.com/~j.b.w/conder.htm

My own Maybrick mystification is here:

http://www.btinternet.com/~j.b.w/holy.htm

An Irish correspondent has since pointed out another Joyce connection that
I had missed in the very first line of Finnegans Wake.

Pa[st Eve (a)n(d) Adam's]

Well at least I hardly ever believe my own fantasies.

 

[FraterLibre]

stuff

Fascinating stuff; thanks.

 

[butterfly27]

Thanks for those links, Mr Whitehead. Your quirky sense of humour added to the appreciation of the content.

My gut reaction after reading the separate cases of James and Florence Maybrick was that Michael Maybrick was somehow implicated in the Ripper murders and wanted to frame James and get Florence out of the picture for his own protection. I say gut feeling because one of the things that struck me about the Mary Kelly case was that Ms Kelly had been heard singing on the night of the killing. It sounds ridiculous, I know, but my reaction was - if her visitor had been Michael Maybrick, he may well have offered her the chance of stardom because of his musical connections. Probably I just read too much pulp fiction.

 

[FraterLibre]

Nice

Butterfly - I rather like this charming idea of Kelly singing for Michael in a kind of private audition. Hm.

 

[Anonymous]

In many of the Ripper theories where Masonic conspiracy is mentioned, the link betwen the Ghoulston Street graffiti and the conpsirators in the parable of Hiram Abif is based on the spelling of Juwes and its supposed use as a collective name for the three. I have further seen indivdual names being quoted as Jubelo, Jubela and Jubelum. However, despite the sources being quoted, I have never found any corroboratiuve evidence from Masonic sources for this.

Nowhere in the Masonic legend of Hiram Abif is there any mention of the htree conpirators being called the Juwes or Jubelo et al.

Has any one else found this? Certainly, in the Irish constitution, which did not undergo the mid C19th revisionism that the English Constitution experienced, I have found nothing to support the use of the collective or singular names.

Also, I have never found any reference to to a person, Mason or otherwise, ever being killed in accordance with the figurative penalties meeted out to the muderers of the the Grand Master Abif. Apart from the financier who had his neck strecthed beneath Blackfriairs bridge, but again this was more secular as this was a social tradition for traitors, rather than Masonic.

Any one else got anything to shed light on this?

So I am wondering if the entire basis for the Masonic conspiracy is tenable.

LD

 

[FraterLibre]

Juwes Reference in Masonry

It's covered on pages 16 and 136 of The Hiram Key by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas. The three are the murderers of Hiram Abiff.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, but I have never been able to find the Masonic writings, as in the ritual, not peripheral stuff that refers to them as the Juwes.

The ritual for the Craft or Blue Lodge degrees is pretty much in the open, but I have never found a reference to them called the jews ot Jubelo et al either.

I have read The Hiram Key, and the The Second Messiah, and still I have not been able to find the Masonic references as opposed to outside comentators, reference to this.

LD

 

[FraterLibre]

Original Sources

Why not write to Knight and Lomas and ask their original sources. In their books they state rather clearly that they are revealing some things from their own indoctrinations that aren't intended for public view. Perhaps this is one of those items.

I do think the link between the Ripper murders and Masonry to be probable melodrama promulgated by those who fear the unknown and tend to project fearsome imagery upon it. This is akin to the Satanic Ritual Abuse frenzy that overcame law enforcement back during the McMartin PreSchool investigation and so many others.

It is also important to note that Jack the Ripper isn't mentioned in either of the Knight / Lomas books, so why they'd include the Juwes material is unknown.

 

[FraterLibre]

Juwes Material

I'd have to presume Knight &/or Lomas was/were exposed to the Juwes material in the course of their Masonic experiences and indoctrination.

That others pointed to the word chalked on the Goulston Street wall and made a Masonic connection before Knight's & Lomas's books appeared also hints that there is indeed some source being referred to, one that has yet to see public light despite all the many Mason exposeés.

Exactly what that source is, I do not know. Might it not even be an oral tradition without written autority behind it?

 

[butterfly27]

This article, written for and on behalf of the Masons denies the word "Juwes" has Masonic connections.

So which Masons are to be believed, Knight & Lomas, or the writer of this article?

 

[FraterLibre]

Ohters, Too

As one of my prior posts points out, it isn't just Knight & Lomas who'd made the connection -- it was made even back in 1888, apparently, and by many others since, based on that word.

And Knight & Lomas did NOT address anything about Jack the Ripper whatsoever, so what possible reason would they have for bothering to make this up?

Denials are interesting but one cannot prove a negative so, unless and until the actual source emerges, we shan't know for sure. My bet is that the word Juwes and the killers of Hiram Abiff and so on are as Knight & Lomas have described them, and that it may well be a largely oral tradition. If anything, official denials may tend to confirm things.

 

[FraterLibre]

Agreed

Yes, I'd tend to agree, they'd distance themselves if they could, and the double slur of the word being linked not only to bloody Yanks, but to Jack the Ripper, well, it's enough to bring out the politics in anyone seeking to defend the organization's good name.

And yet another wee faint touch of a possible hint that Ripper had Yank tendencies, connections, or origins, if any of the letters are legitimate, which is iffy at best.

 

[FraterLibre]

Good Ones

Emperor - Very good questions. Anyone know for sure?

Another possibility is that a Brit wished to cast suspicions on Yanks, or that it was simply a coincidence, or that they had contact with American slang often enough to have absorbed some.

We must realize that the chalk scrawl and the notes written to police likely don't reflect uncalculated, direct communications but instead are veiled, purposely altered, and masked in some way, so as to both taunt the copper and keep them from realizing who's doing what.

Most if not all the letters are likely crank nonsense. Statistics bear this out, if nothing else, so if we decide to set aside the letters we're left with only the most tenuous connection to anything even vaguely American.

Whitechapel at the time was teeming with Eastern European Jewish refugees of many nationalities, immigrants of other kinds, and of course the sailors and exploiters, the prowlers and slumming gents, etc. In short, a heady mix of cultures. To single out one on the basis of spurious notes or slang that may or may not have been calculated to misdirect suspicion is hasty at the least.

The Masonic "connection" is as vague, as tenuous, and as open to interpretation, so I doubt the word "Juwes" suffices to link things to an imagined dark conspiracy, or to some hidden Satanic ritual for that matter.

All the Masonic theories smack of paranoid fantasy to me. The real world is dirtier, uglier, and far less neat.

 

[FraterLibre]

If, Then

Granted some war on secret societies by the Vatican, then the postulate would be that they chalked "Juwes" in order falsely to implicate the Masons -- given this scenario, the word "Juwes" must have been considered rather a clincher in linking things to the Masons, otherwise why use it? Why not use something more blatant and well-known? A symbol or a quotation from an open source or one easily confirmed as Masonic?

To think they'd be so subtle as to undermine their efforts for all these years is rather much to ask.

While we're not even sure the Goulston Street scrawl had aught to do with the Ripper murders, we are fairly certain it spoke rather clearly to Sir Warren and others, judging by their reaction and response.

Blaming all this on some war declared by some church officials against some secret societies seems, then, too attenuated to hold much water.

 

[FraterLibre]

Bowing Out

I can see this is a pet theory for you, so I hereby bow out so as not to spoil it for you. Have fun.

I would ask, though, how making up nonsense would convince scholars of anything? Casting encoded, and unwarranted, aspersions upon a group the scholars are likely to be familiar with accomplishes nothing.

How often, for instance, have you, or I, been accused of some ridiculous satanic barbarity or other and, knowing it to be ridiculous, simply ignored it?

Of course, lies do work. Look how maligned Uncle Al remains to this day, for example, so perhaps there is a germ of psychotic truth in this.

As I said, though, please stroke your pet, and forgive my quibbles.

 

[FraterLibre]

Why?

There are all manner of secret societies, most of which being little more than vaguely esoteric social clubs for the Viagra crowd. Why, then, would the immeasureably arrogant Vatican care and, more to the point, why would they wage a clandestine war when a simple Papal Bull would suffice?

Further, what is it that could possibly bother the Vatican so much? Secrecy alone? The Vatican is rife with it. Secular societies? DeMolay, ahem, and other groups thrive under the Vatican's control.

The notion strikes me as more paranoia than paramount, at least on the part of the almighty Vatican, which can't even acknowledge its errors when it comes to being caught buggering the choirboys.

 

[FraterLibre]

A Book To Perhaps Enjoy

The Assassini, by Thomas Gifford

Here, from bn.com's write up: From the Publisher
It is 1982. In the Vatican, priestly vultures gather around the dying Pope, whispering the names of possible successors. In a forgotten monastery on Ireland's gale-swept coast, a dangerous document is hidden, waiting to be claimed. And in a family chapel in Princeton, New Jersey, a nun is murdered at her prayers. Sister Valentine was an outspoken activist, a thorn in the Church's side. When her brother, lawyer Ben Driskill, realizes the Church will never investigate her death, he sets out to find the murderer himself—and uncovers an explosive secret.The Assassini. An age-old brotherhood of killers. Once they were hired by princes of the Church to protect it in dangerous times. But whose orders do they now obey?
The Assassini marks the triumphant retum of a master at the peak of his powers—the first novel in more than a decade from the acclaimed author of The Wind Chill Factor.

_From The Critics
Publisher's Weekly
Gifford's ( The Wind Chill Factor ) splendid thriller--his first novel in 11 years--takes place as the Catholic Church prepares to elect a new pope and an ancient and deadly secret society, its roots deep in Church history, takes murderous action. An ambitious monsignor and a well-connected lay power broker are executed in New York City; hours later, a radical activist nun writing a book on the Church's role in WW II is killed in Princeton, N.J. The nun's brother, lawyer Ben Driskill, a cynical ex-Catholic and former Jesuit seminarian, determines to avenge her murder. He must track down the meaning of the tattered WW II photo his sister left behind, featuring one of the two likeliest candidates for the papacy, and discover why she was investigating the suicide in Princeton of a visiting priest 50 years earlier. Driskill's perilous journey takes him to Egypt, Paris, Ireland and Rome, where another American nun is asking similar questions. As their paths converge, dark secrets from the Church's history in WW II are revealed. Despite the fact that many readers will identify the mysterious ``Archduke'' well before the somewhat overwrought conclusion, Gifford delivers a classic thriller: well-written, plausible and thought-provoking. 50,000 first printing; $50,000 ad/promo. (Sept.)

_What People Are Saying
Masterfully plotted and brilliantly told, The Assassini's suspense is unrelenting and its satisfaction is guaranteed.
_— Ross Thomas

 

[FraterLibre]

And Don't Forget

...the secret police priests in the INDIANA JONES movies, as well as the guardians of the vampire priests in The Tomb and other books by F. Paul Wilson. There is a long history of mingling the Vatican, secret societies, and conspiracy in thrillers.

 

[FraterLibre]

Circular Logic

I'm sorry, but read what you just posted carefully. You're honestly saying that the Vatican behaves like an envious, psychotic child hoarding its secrets and literally going to covert war with anyone else who HAS a secret?

Bizarre.

 

[Anonymous]

Emperor Zombie


I beleive this deserves a thread of its own, but I do not belive that it is being as badly received as you seem to think.

I for example, am absolutely sure that the chruch has assassination blood on its hands, but whether in this case, a masonic reference by a catholic murdered to throw off the scent is anywhere near the truth.

In Ireland, England and Scotland and Wales, there was a dispensation for Membership of the Order as it was not perceived in the same way by the church as elsewhere.

LD

 

[butterfly27]

Emperor Zombie

I agree with LD that your topic deserves a thread of its own. Conspiracy theories regarding the Papacy are rife.

Can I just ask a question? You mentioned earlier that the three ruffians (Jubelo, Jubela, Jubelum) weren't part of British masonic lore at the time of the Ripper case, but were used in American rites. I was just wondering what your source was for that information. Ta.

 

[butterfly27]

Re: Re: Emperor Zombie

as for the source of the american masonic rites...I'll have to find an online source I can link you to...there are many things besides that that differ from the lodge in scotland england and wales.

Thanks EZ, but there's no need to go to any trouble. I thought you might know off the top of your head, that's all. Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

Jack the Ripper - Tumblety

I would like to reply to Guru Saj re Tumblety.

You must always attempt to sort out fact from fiction when investigating suspects, Tumblety is a perfect example.

In your post you mention two things, 1, He was suspected by Scotland Yard at the time, and 2, He was pursued across the Atlantic by Scotland Yard detectives. Both these assertions are incorrect.

Tumblety was not a suspect at the time. The first time he is mentioned by any British Police or ex police officer is a quarter of a century later by an ex officer who had absolutely nothing to do with the Jack the Ripper case. The letter also contains several incorrect statements about Tumblety which brings into question this officers knowledge of the true situation.

Tumblety was not pursued across the Atlantice by Scotland Yard men. The officer in question was already in the North Amrican Continent before Tumblety left Britain. He was in Canada dealing with a bank fraud. He was later directed to go to New York - for what reason we don't know. You cannot have a pursuit where the pursuer arrives at the destination before the persuee!

There is absolutely nothing substantial to connect Tumblety to these murders.

Bob Hinton

 

[Spookdaddy]

Re: Emperor Zombie

Can I just ask a question? You mentioned earlier that the three ruffians (Jubelo, Jubela, Jubelum) weren't part of British masonic lore at the time of the Ripper case, but were used in American rites. I was just wondering what your source was for that information. Ta.

To quote from Philip Sugdens book The Complete History of Jack the Ripper -

Advocates of the Masonic conspiracy theory cite “Juwes” as proof that the murderer was a Freemason. This assertion is based on an erroneous belief, promulgated by Stephen Knight, Melvyn Fairclough and others that “Juwes” was a Masonic term by which Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum were collectively known. In fact this was simply not the case, By 1888 the three murderers of Hiram Abiff had not been part of British Masonic ritual for more than seventy years, and although they had survived in American ritual in neither country had they ever been called, officially or colloquially, the “Juwes”. “It is a mystery,” wrote Paul Begg...” why anyone ever thought that “Juwes” was a Masonic word.”

What really debases the whole “Juwes” thing for me is the fact that it appears to be a different spelling from the one on the original message. PC Long who found the message recorded the spelling as Juews as did the Inspector he notified directly after finding the message.

 

[FraterLibre]

Unlikely

And the likelihood that the chalk scrawl had anything to do with the Ripper murders anyway is slender at best. Most likely it was a slanderous graffito intended to inflame and nothing significant at all.

In fact, the theory that it was directed at the tailor's shop adjacent to where it was found might perhaps make the most sense when Occam's Razor is applied.

 

[Anonymous]

Apparently there is a new musical based on Jack the Ripper about to open in Brighton. Strangely enough it has been written by 2 women.

That's all I know, anyone in the Brighton area might think about looking for it.

 

[FraterLibre]

By The Same Team Who Brought You...

yes, the new feel-good musical is here: JACK THE RIPPER'S EASTER PARADE, brought to you by the same team who brought you SPRINGTIME FOR HITLER...

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Jack the Ripper - Tumblety

I would like to reply to Guru Saj re Tumblety.

You must always attempt to sort out fact from fiction when investigating suspects, Tumblety is a perfect example.

In your post you mention two things, 1, He was suspected by Scotland Yard at the time, and 2, He was pursued across the Atlantic by Scotland Yard detectives. Both these assertions are incorrect.

Tumblety was not a suspect at the time. The first time he is mentioned by any British Police or ex police officer is a quarter of a century later by an ex officer who had absolutely nothing to do with the Jack the Ripper case. The letter also contains several incorrect statements about Tumblety which brings into question this officers knowledge of the true situation.

Tumblety was not pursued across the Atlantice by Scotland Yard men. The officer in question was already in the North Amrican Continent before Tumblety left Britain. He was in Canada dealing with a bank fraud. He was later directed to go to New York - for what reason we don't know. You cannot have a pursuit where the pursuer arrives at the destination before the persuee!

There is absolutely nothing substantial to connect Tumblety to these murders.

Bob Hinton

hello Bob,

you're right of course, there is nothing solid, but there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence, which is probably as much as we can hope for 115 years on.

It's true that Littlechild made the odd factual error when describing Tumblety in his letter (for example, his belief that Tumblety had committed suicide in 1888, when in fact he died in 1903), but he was writing anecdotally 25 years after the murders.

More importantly, there is unequivocal evidence that the police did suspect him of the Whitechapel murders. Having been charged with gross indecency and resisting arrest on 7 November, he was then questioned on suspicion of the murders on 12 November.

At a hearing on 16 November he was bailed to appear in court on 10 December to answer the indecency charges, but then fled to the States via France. At this time American newpapers were full of stories about "the American doctor suspected of carrying out the terrible crimes in Whitechapel, England"

These same papers did indeed report erroneously that Scotland Yard men had followed him across the Atlantic, but while this wasn't true, it was, as you mention, the case that a UK inspector already in America was assigned to New York, reportedly to find Tumblety.

New York City’s Chief Inspector Byrnes found Tumblety at East 10th St, but failed to arrest him on the basis "there is no proof of his complicity in the Whitechapel murders, and the crime for which he was under bond in London is not extraditable."

This statement alone shows that the police on both sides of the Atlantic wanted to talk to Tumblety about the Ripper murders, so it is not true to say that he was never suspected at the time.

Perhaps the way you read things, Bob, is that Tumblety's candidacy was invented by theorists after the fact (their invention later rediscovered by Evans and Gainey), because he made an interesting candidate, and certain hazy facts could be arranged to make the case against him appear convincing?

But even if Tumblety's candicacy has been built up a little too much, it was not created from thin air. You can't say that there is no case, or that he was not a contemporary suspect, because the latter is a matter of historical record.

I'm not wholly convinced by the Evans and Gainey book, but it can't be dismissed out of hand.