LOA (The Law of Attraction)

Anonny

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#1
I am curious as what people's opinions are of LOA, and apologies if this topic has already been discussed.

When I was addicted to psychic readings on an ex lover, you'd be amazed at the amount of readers who threw in LOA and free will to protect themselves.

I talk about psychics because they most commonly use good old LOA as an excuse to cover up for their fake fraudulent readings by saying 'well you have free will', or 'haven't practised LOA properly'.

I met lots of people when addicted to readings who were told by readers to practise LOA and they would get their ex back and whatever else they wanted just by following affirmations and being positive, good karma etc.

I was told many crazy things by psychics such as I need to look at myself in the mirror each day and tell myself that I love myself and many other bizarre requests, and picture myself with the ex telling them that I'm letting them go for them to come back when they are ready. I will admit, at my deepest, darkest times when I was desperate for my ex partner to return, I did practise some.. Lesser bizarre affirmations (par the above ones!).

What I found was, LOA can be quite dangerous. You see when you are telling someone, 'yes! Your ex will be back as long as you follow LOA', it puts enormous amounts of pressure on the person... They worry if they are completing the affirmations correctly, if they're thinking about the ex too much and what about the ex they're thinking (which is bound to happen), if they have done this and that, and what I found was the ex hardly ever returned to them anyway. So they are thinking, 'I'm completing LOA, it's so great! I feel good because it's all peace and positivity, but am I doing it properly and why is nothing happening?'.

People don't obviously just use LOA about exes but I'm just using this as an example for why I think LOA can be very unhealthy and possibly.. Dangerous to delve in.

LOA is (in my opinion) a "fake" form of destiny and free will mixed.. If you succeed with your affirmations, you WILL get the job, the perfect partner this and that. But if you do not, then you won't get your wish fulfilled.

I have never seen LOA work out for people in my experience, I firmly personally -- (and others are welcome to their own opinion) believe that things are either meant to happen or they don't.

It seems crazy to me that psychics/some scientists/Joe Bloggs have told people that they can manifest anything they want, just by LOA. Some things in life we are not meant to have, simply, or are. No LOA or telling ourselves we love ourselves in the mirror will change an outcome.

I also think it's terrible that readers are telling people to practise false hope in that their exes will definitely be back if they follow LOA. Their exes never did come back surprise surprise. Neither did mine.

So, I'm curious to know what others' experiences are of LOA..

Of course it isn't all about wanting exes back, it's just as people may know I put out my story on here earlier this year about my addictions to readings and LOA has made me very sceptical from that. I know all of the tricks of the psychic trade having been addicted, and met people addicted to them.

I really find it hard to believe that you can manifest anything you like, surely you use common sense and work hard at things if you want a brand new shining top range car on your driveway, that it isn't about LOA? It doesn't just land on your driveway because you practised LOA.

I find it all rather ludicrous. All of this being positive and positive things happening to you is crap. I know happy positive people who have had the worst people come in their lives and the worst luck/things happening to them and they still were good people and happy and put out good karma to others, and it seems sometimes the nastiest unpleasant people seem to have laid back happy lives.

Sorry to some if I'm talking waffle, but these are my views on this subject and it would take lots for me to budge my opinion. I have had premonitions once or twice that came true and nothing could stop them, so I do have some part believe in predestined events and things that are meant to happen will do. Of course that is my opinion.
 

Ermintruder

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#2
A standard online reference regarding this states sonething along the lines of "The Law of Attraction is one of the most powerful laws in the universe. What you think about is what you bring about into your life. You can improve your life drastically by improving the thoughts that you dwell upon and the actions that you take"

Now (setting-aside for the moment that truly-extraordinary claims really do require utterly-extraordinary evidence) and focussing just upon the expectations & desires: importantly, from the perspective of the supplicant.

  • “The law of attraction states that whatever you focus on, think about, read about, and talk about intensely, you’re going to attract more of into your life.”
My problem with this, is, quite-aside from mechanism...what about all those other sentient individuals in the universe? What if their desires & expectations are in diametric conflict with yours? Who gets the prize?

  • “Ask for what you want and be prepared to get it...it’s unlimited what the universe can bring when you understand the great secret that thoughts become things.”
But that's a key LOA problem. If this thought-becomes-things concept does actually work (somehow....) then how much time need elapse, in waiting? To deliver? A thousand milliseconds? Or minutes/hours/days?

  • “What you think, you create. What you feel, you attract. What you imagine, you become.”
Does this only apply to positive things, within the belief set? If so, in what sense? I may desire all sorts of things, but in a more-absolute frame of reference, attaining these wants could (conceivably) spell my end. Does the universe somehow know this, too, and therefore benevolently fails to deliver?

We then start to fall-down an inferential trap of deconstructive doubt (inescapably: don't you agree?)
 

blessmycottonsocks

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#4
As it was free to view on Amazon Prime, I watched the docudrama all about this, called The Secret.

It started off OK and I was willing to believe that positive thinking can influence your life for the better.

When I was in my younger and fairly impoverished days for example, I would often think positively about having a decent house, nice car, a foreign wife and eventually two children (one of each). As it happened, it did work out exactly like that. But I don't believe there was any mysterious universal force behind it. It was me motivating myself to achieve these things (obviously it was just luck that the kids worked out that way).

So motivate yourselves to achieve what you want in life. Nothing wrong with that.
When "The Secret" started suggesting that cancer and other serious diseases could be beaten through positive thought alone though, I felt it was straying into dangerous waters.
 
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EnolaGaia

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#6
A standard online reference regarding this states sonething along the lines of "The Law of Attraction is one of the most powerful laws in the universe. What you think about is what you bring about into your life. You can improve your life drastically by improving the thoughts that you dwell upon and the actions that you take" ...
(Emphasis added)

It's important to note that the majority of widely-promoted (and widely-exploited for profit) descriptions of the LOA downplay, obscure, or completely omit this aspect of what's required to obtain positive thoughts' prospective payoff(s). It tends to surface again only in the testimonials of those who've successfully achieved what they once merely visualized, as illustrated by another earlier post ...


... When I was in my younger and fairly impoverished days for example, I would often think positively about having a decent house, nice car, a foreign wife and eventually two children (one of each). As it happened, it did work out exactly like that. But I don't believe there was any mysterious universal force behind it. It was me motivating myself to achieve these things ...
(Emphasis added)

My own life experience contains two periods during which I conceptualized a completely new personal order, fixed that vision as my objective, and succeeded in realizing it. The successful outcomes from both these episodes were, and still are, treated as marvels by family and friends.

In both cases, acquaintances asked me how I'd done it and requested guidance on how to do it for themselves. The passive visualization (i.e., daydreaming) first part was no problem. Even with my advice, guidance, and aid the proactive making-it-so part wasn't completed, or sometimes not even undertaken, by more than a third of such inquirers - all of whom were successful.

My point is this ... Thinking positive thoughts constitutes nothing more than passive daydreaming. If you don't focus such daydreams down into a clear vision, you've got nothing specific to pursue. If you don't proactively pursue the vision through effective action, you have no more chance of attaining it than you have of winning the lottery without obtaining a ticket.

Having said that ... Let me circle back to the OP's stated concerns ...

The Pollyanna-style version of the LOA most commonly encountered is itself attractive because it requires no more effort than daydreaming. It skips over any mention of or mandate for personal responsibility and assures the reader / listener need only invest faith in a nebulous principle or protocol by which the universe is no more than one's drive-thru window for wish fulfillment.

At this point the seller has conned the client into believing two key things: (a) there's a mechanism at work which can be leveraged to beneficial effect and (b) one has only to privately / personally exert the required leverage to obtain that effect for him- / herself.

The seller now has the client in a position of dependence that serves as a sort of trap. If daydreaming alone doesn't seem to be working, all the seller has to do is assure the client he / she is doing it incorrectly, insufficiently, etc. The seller can readily admit it's not working, because the client is already convinced his / her internal processes are the sole causative mechanism required. The client seeks (and pays for ... ) ongoing guidance and assistance in pursuing a state of illusory mastery offered by the party benefitting from the pursuit itself.
 

INT21

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#7
What if your wishes for improvement (laudable and fair as they may be) conflict with the wishes of your partner or significant others ?

How do you take this into account ?

INT21.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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#8
What if your wishes for improvement (laudable and fair as they may be) conflict with the wishes of your partner or significant others ?

How do you take this into account ?

INT21.
If your personal dreams/goals are significantly different from those of your partner, then it doesn't sound like an ideal match.
 

INT21

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#9
Agreed, but most people develop and change their ways as they get older.
You seem to imply that if you haven't got the ideal situation right from the get-go, then you are stuck. And that is all there is to it.
 
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#10
At this point the seller has conned the client into believing two key things: (a) there's a mechanism at work which can be leveraged to beneficial effect and (b) one has only to privately / personally exert the required leverage to obtain that effect for him- / herself.
I've had the misfortune to meet Law of Attraction "coaches" and I've noticed that they pretty much all had a parallel Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) business. I can only suppose the overlap between the 'abundance mindset' of Law of Attraction, and the 'passive income' promise of MLM makes them more prone to pushing it, and if they do find a Law of Attraction convert they have just the right 'lifestyle business' opportunity for them.

One question that seemed to stump or anger Law of Attraction coaches at business networking events was "If you can attract wealth into your life through using the most powerful secret in the universe why are you still getting up at six in the morning to eat a crappy breakfast in a business hotel and talk to random strangers?". Never really got to the bottom of the why...
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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#11
You see, I worry about things like Law of Attraction, and I'm sure I can't be the only one. Because... well, I am, as they say, a bit of a worrier. Always have been, but situations over recent years have made it even worse. And when I found out about this LOA business, not all that long ago, it started to make me feel worse. Because, if I'm understanding it correctly, I've 'attracted' the negative stuff, because I've thought about it and worried about it.

And that just makes me feel horrid cos now I have guilt to contend with on top of everything else.

So I really hope there isn't anything to this LOA business.
 

gattino

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#12
It seems to me that it takes a possibly genuine effect - things you think about coming into your orbit - and insinuates, if only through a lack of clarification, that it is of a magical rather than psychological nature.

It's often the case that any subject on which you dwell will seem to start popping up left right and centre very quickly..articles in magazines, adverts in shop windows, discussions on tv shows. What's actually happening, in all probability, is that your dwelling and wishing is programming your subconscious mind - which takes in far more information than your conscious mind does - to alert the latter when it encounters relevant material. You're thinking about moving to Australia and what do you know, as if by magic, there's an ad for a company promoting job opportunities in Australia. It's not that the Cosmos placed that ad there to please you but that that your subconsious alerted you to an ad you would normally have no reason to register or retain in your awareness at all.

If there is a "law of attraction/secret" that results in dreams coming true its surely in not merely noticing but positively acting on those relevant things you're now prone to noticing, and the opportunities they present...by filling in that form or attending that meeting or sending off for that product. Doing so may not result in wishes being fulfilled , but failing to do so definitely won't.
 
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gattino

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#13
Because, if I'm understanding it correctly, I've 'attracted' the negative stuff, because I've thought about it and worried about it.
Again there's a substitution of "attracting" for "noticing". Your worrying is unlikely to cause negative things, but rather to make you more sensitive to notice and dwelling on the negatives that do come along.

I've a friend who goes through bouts of black depression in which the world, life itself is full of negativity in his perception..im talking about the injustices he sees in the news. In his darkest periods he both dwells on, gets angry about, and draws attention to these things. He sees them as evidence of the world and life itself being a terrible thing. I live in the same world and it doesn't look anything like that to me. His mood affects his perceptions and the things he gives his thoughts to.

In short you've nothing to feel guilty about. You didn't attract any of the bad into your life. But you may or may not have some say in the weight you give to it. If there's a way to appreciate the positive stuff and put the negatives in perspective, the world will suddenly seem a lot less stressful place.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

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#14
Again there's a substitution of "attracting" for "noticing". Your worrying is unlikely to cause negative things, but rather to make you more sensitive to notice and dwelling on the negatives that do come along.

I've a friend who goes through bouts of black depression in which the world, life itself is full of negativity in his perception..im talking about the injustices he sees in the news. In his darkest periods he both dwells on, gets angry about, and draws attention to these things. He sees them as evidence of the world and life itself being a terrible thing. I live in the same world and it doesn't look anything like that to me. His mood affects his perceptions and the things he gives his thoughts to.

In short you've nothing to feel guilty about. You didn't attract any of the bad into your life. But you may or may not have some say in the weight you give to it. If there's a way to appreciate the positive stuff and put the negatives in perspective, the world will suddenly seem a lot less stressful place.
Thank you. Very much. That really helps.
 

PeteS

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#15
You see, I worry about things like Law of Attraction, and I'm sure I can't be the only one. Because... well, I am, as they say, a bit of a worrier. Always have been, but situations over recent years have made it even worse. And when I found out about this LOA business, not all that long ago, it started to make me feel worse. Because, if I'm understanding it correctly, I've 'attracted' the negative stuff, because I've thought about it and worried about it.

And that just makes me feel horrid cos now I have guilt to contend with on top of everything else.

So I really hope there isn't anything to this LOA business.
Yep, worrying excessively can ruin your life. Like many, I've been through some pretty awful times, and they have often come one after another. Worried - course I was, but I have realised that most of these times were totally beyond my control, and I certainly didn't attract them. Now, unless it's more or less a life or death situation, I don't attach too much importance to negative events, and doing so, I'm much more easily able to deal with such things. Takes a bit of work, but it's worth the effort.
 

IbisNibs

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#18
I have a friend who was into the LOA for a short time. She explained synchronicities I encountered as instances of the LOA in action. The impression I got was that it was similar to a variety of other "techniques" such as visualizing specific needs. The only one I ever actually read about was written up in a book called "The Art and Practice of Creative Visualization" by a man who used the pen name Ophiel. He never turned his work into any kind of corporate marketing franchise, which is what the LOA sounds like from the descriptions above.

"Ophiel" was a very down to earth person. He had worked out a system that seemed to work for him and he wanted to share it. He never moralized, he just encouraged steady application and basic decency. He didn't promise that you'd get everything you wanted exactly as you wanted it, and you had to put sincere effort into whatever was going to help you reach your goal (focus on the quality of your work if you planned to use that as a stepping stone to another opportunity, etc). He emphasized that it was important to know exactly what you needed, and to be prepared for it, for example, if you wanted to be an executive manager, you couldn't just visualize for it and expect to get that job if you weren't adequately qualified and ready for the opportunity. He had an interesting idea he called the "Circle of Availability". Basically, you had to build up your resources step by step according to what you actually needed, and thereby increase the amount of resources you had. You had to enjoy what you acquired and feel a sense of satisfaction with it. Otherwise there was a danger of obsessively acquiring the same kinds of things over and over.

His books are interesting to read just to get a sense of his perspective on the world and the ideas he tried to organize and present. There are times when it's easy to get where you want, and other times when it's very challenging; he compared this to sailing and knowing how to tack when the "wind" (elemental cosmic energies) was blowing almost directly against you. I've found that metaphor very useful--it's helped me de-escalate my stress, regain faith in myself and have patience when I've really needed to.
 

PeteS

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#19
I have a friend who was into the LOA for a short time. She explained synchronicities I encountered as instances of the LOA in action. The impression I got was that it was similar to a variety of other "techniques" such as visualizing specific needs. The only one I ever actually read about was written up in a book called "The Art and Practice of Creative Visualization" by a man who used the pen name Ophiel. He never turned his work into any kind of corporate marketing franchise, which is what the LOA sounds like from the descriptions above.

"Ophiel" was a very down to earth person. He had worked out a system that seemed to work for him and he wanted to share it. He never moralized, he just encouraged steady application and basic decency. He didn't promise that you'd get everything you wanted exactly as you wanted it, and you had to put sincere effort into whatever was going to help you reach your goal (focus on the quality of your work if you planned to use that as a stepping stone to another opportunity, etc). He emphasized that it was important to know exactly what you needed, and to be prepared for it, for example, if you wanted to be an executive manager, you couldn't just visualize for it and expect to get that job if you weren't adequately qualified and ready for the opportunity. He had an interesting idea he called the "Circle of Availability". Basically, you had to build up your resources step by step according to what you actually needed, and thereby increase the amount of resources you had. You had to enjoy what you acquired and feel a sense of satisfaction with it. Otherwise there was a danger of obsessively acquiring the same kinds of things over and over.

His books are interesting to read just to get a sense of his perspective on the world and the ideas he tried to organize and present. There are times when it's easy to get where you want, and other times when it's very challenging; he compared this to sailing and knowing how to tack when the "wind" (elemental cosmic energies) was blowing almost directly against you. I've found that metaphor very useful--it's helped me de-escalate my stress, regain faith in myself and have patience when I've really needed to.
Ophiel sounds like he had a load of common sense. Knowing what you want, being realistic about your goal, and knowing or acquiring the knowledge how to achieve what you want are the keys.
 

Bad Bungle

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#20
I have a friend who was into the LOA for a short time. She explained synchronicities I encountered as instances of the LOA in action. The impression I got was that it was similar to a variety of other "techniques" such as visualizing specific needs. The only one I ever actually read about was written up in a book called "The Art and Practice of Creative Visualization" by a man who used the pen name Ophiel. He never turned his work into any kind of corporate marketing franchise, which is what the LOA sounds like from the descriptions above.
My goodness - I didn't know what the Law of Attraction was but after starting to read this thread this morning, my first thought was 'that reminds me of creative visualisation'. I went looking for a book in my diminutive Fortean library I read 40 years ago, but whereas most of the books survived a house move I can't find that one. May not have been Orphiel but memory says one of my books described the 'magic £5 note trick'. Essentially you start with an empty envelope or pouch and you visualise a £5 note inside it - by visualise I mean every facet, every fibre, every detail of the banknote - and when you have a perfect image in your head, you reach in and pull the £5 out. So why isn't everyone getting money this way?
Note 1: this is a difficult trick to pull off. If you have spent the years of self discipline and mental exercises needed to successfully creatively visualise an object, you are not going to waste the time and effort on a fiver (the Author said it was far easier to work in a Factory for an hour).
Note 2: it is easy to see how this trick can lead (for some) to insanity, you are attempting to turn imagination into reality by strength of will. Maybe that's the rationale behind miracles or magic or realising a dream ?
 

EnolaGaia

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#21
I'm not sure LOA advocates would claim the 'magic £5 note trick' falls within the scope of what the LOA is about. This particular creative visualization exercise is very narrowly focused on making a specific and tangible thing manifest itself by force of will alone.

Even the most extreme LOA stuff deals only with a coalescence or increasing concentration of relevant relations and associations rather than materialization of specific objects.

This coalescence pertains to nothing more than facilitating or fostering a feasible / conducive pathway to your visualized goal. Some assembly (on your part) is still required. The LOA doesn't promise on-demand results akin to using a Star Trek replicator.
 

Bad Bungle

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#22
Ah, I'll stop looking for the book - although I did find a couple of fascinating ones along the way I didn't know I had.
'The Power of Positive Thinking' by Norman Vincent Peale was very popular in the Cold War obsessed United States in the '50s. But I think you needed God and Jesus on board for the best results.
 

EnolaGaia

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#23
... 'The Power of Positive Thinking' by Norman Vincent Peale was very popular in the Cold War obsessed United States in the '50s. But I think you needed God and Jesus on board for the best results.
Yep ... I'm very familiar with Peale's work. My two eldest aunts (both devoutly / actively Xtian) were big fans, and one of them was reasonably described as an outright Peale "freak" (i.e., an active practitioner of his method).

In a lot of respects Peale's positive thinking method parallels the methods associated with invoking or exploiting the LOA. The biggest difference (as you pointed out) lay in the mechanism or active agency the practitioner was seeking to invoke. For Peale it was the benevolence of God / Christ specifically, whereas in the LOA it's more a phenomenon intrinsic to the cosmos (regardless of who created it).
 

GNC

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#25
Is this anything to do with cosmic ordering? It sounds like it's under the same "If you build it, he will come" type of wishful thinking positivity.
 

EnolaGaia

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#26
Is this anything to do with cosmic ordering? It sounds like it's under the same "If you build it, he will come" type of wishful thinking positivity.
I would say there's little connection between the LOA and Mohr's cosmic ordering beyond the fact both are promoted in relation to getting what you want.

IMHO Mohr's cosmic ordering is even more watered down than the 'magic £5 note trick' approach mentioned above. The note trick approach still requires the wisher to exert will to get what he / she wants.

Cosmic ordering (at the extreme) suggests all you have to do is submit your order (wish) and wait for the parcel to appear on your doorstep. No exertion of will or exertion in any other sense beyond submitting your wish.

If you believe this, you may be naive enough to not notice Mohr herself died in 2010 in her mid-40's - a fact her wishfulness apparently couldn't evade.

FWIW ... I've been told by a native German speaker that Mohr's original German works are infused with elements of gentle humor that get lost in English translation, perhaps faking English readers into assuming she was much more serious than she was or claimed to be.
 

Ulalume

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#27
My own life experience contains two periods during which I conceptualized a completely new personal order, fixed that vision as my objective, and succeeded in realizing it. The successful outcomes from both these episodes were, and still are, treated as marvels by family and friends.
This is intriguing. Care to elaborate? (You can PM me if you're willing but don't want to discuss it publicly.)

Being a practicing witch, this business of manifesting is normal to me, but not something I'm inclined to see in LOA terms. I do have a theory that when things do manifest, they take the path of least resistance, and it's up to you to make sure that path is the most advantageous one. If you don't, the path it takes may drag you into some truly unpleasant places on the way.
 

skinny

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#28
it's up to you to make sure that path is the most advantageous one. If you don't, the path it takes may drag you into some truly unpleasant places on the way.
I can attest to the veracity here. I suspect lots of us get lazy on the journey and drop our discipline along the way. I can see my entire framework of personality crumbling and I tell myself I must have been cursed, but, if I'm honest, I am merely unwilling to put in the effort to bind up my lifethreads and do the work I know I am capable of. And this after a career as pretty much a positive enabler for the paths of my students. That isn't ironic. It's just poor motivation.
 

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#29
I suspect lots of us get lazy on the journey and drop our discipline along the way.
Or is it in fact that we get, to some extent, simply worn out? Have to admit being somewhat like this after several traumatic life events, 30 odd years of a stressful job, together with years and years of self reliance.
 
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escargot

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#30
I can attest to the veracity here. I suspect lots of us get lazy on the journey and drop our discipline along the way. I can see my entire framework of personality crumbling and I tell myself I must have been cursed, but, if I'm honest, I am merely unwilling to put in the effort to bind up my lifethreads and do the work I know I am capable of. And this after a career as pretty much a positive enabler for the paths of my students. That isn't ironic. It's just poor motivation.
Naaah, you just get to a point where you realise it's not all up to you to sort everything out. You can advise people with all your wisdom and experience and they'll still go ahead and wreck their own lives. We all get a little cynical after years of this!
 
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