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Local & Dialect Words

Spookdaddy said:
I believe the sound has almost completely disappeared in South American Spanish. I can see a class distinction arising in pre revolution/independence South and Central American nations - where the use of European Spanish may have been used by some to associate themselves with the 'Old Country', and the upper echelons of the colonial regime, but my understanding is that it has not survived as a class marker.
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I think the reason it's not used in Argentina is because of the large Italian population there. Whether it ever was though, I'm not sure.
 
Erinaceus said:
Jumpers and sweaters are the same as pullovers.
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Not here:). Jumpers have fallen out of fashion. I only recall them from the 70's. They are a type of dress that you wear a top under, as described in this wiki link:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumper_(dress)

Sweater is, generally a knitted top with buttons down the whole of the front or a knitted top with a pattern such as the Nordic sweater. Generally speaking, I would call any knitted top a sweater.

Pullovers can describe a type of sweater (knitted), or sweatshirt, or any long sleeved shirt that is pulled over the head. I specify "long sleeve" because short sleeved shirts are usually called a tshirt or polo shirt (collared)
 
A gansey was a jumper, pullover or sweater in Cork. Although properly a gansey (Guernsey) sweater is a fisherman's knitted woolen sweater a bit like a jersey (Jersey) which in cotk can refer to any pullover etc.
 
Erinaceus said:
Jumpers and sweaters are the same as pullovers
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I understood that jumpers & pullovers could have either v-necks or crew necks, but sweaters can only have crew necks or polo necks (ie long necked)

I've only just realised that polo shirts never have polo necks....

Cardigans have gone out of fashion (verbally and sartorially) with their ecological niche having been uptaken by various (none/full/quarter-lengthed zips) fleeces.

And sleeveless 'cardies' have been driven to extinction by gilets (they were initially called tabbards in Scotland & Ireland, back when people would've been utterly-ashamed in the 1970s to refer to their then 'continental quilts' as duvets).

My late mother liked wearing 'shrugs', which (as small wrong-sized cardigans) I always thought looked like matinée jackets for grownups. There were also earlier 'raglans' my grandmother wore (which were oversized saggy cardies, with vast pockets containing boiled sweets & lost spectacles)
 
Ermintruder said:
...There were also earlier 'raglans' my grandmother wore (which were oversized saggy cardies, with vast pockets containing boiled sweets & lost spectacles)
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Raglan still exists as a sleeve style - where the sleeve extends all the way to the neck, avoiding the need for a shoulder seam. I wonder if the 'raglans' you describe become saggy because they were made this way, and the lack of that shoulder seam took some of the structure out of them.

...I understood that jumpers & pullovers could have either v-necks or crew necks, but sweaters can only have crew necks or polo necks (ie long necked)...
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I've often wondered if the term 'sweater' is taken too literally by gentlemen of a certain age - many of whom, it seems to me, appear to believe that woollen over-garments are not subject to the same hygiene related necessities as other items of apparel.
 
Ermintruder said:
I understood that jumpers & pullovers could have either v-necks or crew necks, but sweaters can only have crew necks or polo necks (ie long necked)

I've only just realised that polo shirts never have polo necks....

Cardigans have gone out of fashion (verbally and sartorially) with their ecological niche having been uptaken by various (none/full/quarter-lengthed zips) fleeces.

And sleeveless 'cardies' have been driven to extinction by gilets (they were initially called tabbards in Scotland & Ireland, back when people would've been utterly-ashamed in the 1970s to refer to their then 'continental quilts' as duvets).

My late mother liked wearing 'shrugs', which (as small wrong-sized cardigans) I always thought looked like matinée jackets for grownups. There were also earlier 'raglans' my grandmother wore (which were oversized saggy cardies, with vast pockets containing boiled sweets & lost spectacles)
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Jumpers/pullovers were the same thing when I was young, but 'sweater' wasn't used AFAIR.

And when did 'body-warmers' start to be called 'gilets' ? I don't hear 'body-warmer' at all nowadays.
 
Floyd1 said:
...And when did 'body-warmers' start to be called 'gilets' ? I don't hear 'body-warmer' at all nowadays.
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The latter description is still used. But, to be fair, given that as a technical description 'body warmer' could be applied to so many other items of clothing - maybe it was time for something a bit more specific. ('Vest' - which is I think the US usage - and 'waistcoat' also allow for a bit of ambiguity.)

(I love my gilet. Speaking as someone who overheats really quickly, they are a very convenient bit of clobber. They keep your core warm while allowing your extremities to let off a bit of steam.)
 
Spookdaddy said:
The latter description is still used. But, to be fair, given that as a technical description 'body warmer' could be applied to so many other items of clothing - maybe it was time for something a bit more specific. ('Vest' - which is I think the US usage - and 'waistcoat' also allow for a bit of ambiguity.)

(I love my gilet. Speaking as someone who overheats really quickly, they are a very convenient bit of clobber. They keep your core warm while allowing your extremities to let off a bit of steam.)
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I have recently bought one myself, having last owned one circa 1985, and yes, I definitely concur.
Not only for the reason you mention, but having 'free arms' to throw the ball for the dog and more easily get items in and out of pockets etc.
Also I suppose, in very cold weather you can wear it underneath a jacket and still have the benefit of the extra pockets if needed.
I should have got one years ago.
 
Floyd1 said:
Sorry to bring the tone down- but 'goz' to mean 'phlegm' anyone?
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Goz wasn't in my lexicon. But you've just reminded me of the ceilings of my old classrooms - many of which were covered in what looked like a very primitive attempt at plaster decoration, but on closer inspection turned out to be an accumulation of small gobbets of toilet roll.

In order to exercise our inner Michelangelo we would chew a ball of toilet paper until it was sodden, apply the result to a bendy ruler and flick it upwards. Nine out of ten times it stuck, dried out, and stayed there - possibly forever.

These were known as 'dobbers'.

Even now, decades later, I will look at a ceiling decorated with ornate plasterwork and hear my inner Molesworth observe, 'Ooh - awesome dobberwork.'
 
Spookdaddy said:
Goz wasn't in my lexicon. But you've just reminded me of the ceilings of my old classrooms - many of which were covered in what looked like a very primitive attempt at plaster decoration, but on closer inspection turned out to be an accumulation of small gobbets of toilet roll.

In order to exercise our inner Michelangelo we would chew a ball of toilet paper until it was sodden, apply the result to a bendy ruler and flick it upwards. Nine out of ten times it stuck, dried out, and stayed there - possibly forever.

These were known as 'dobbers'.

Even now, decades later, I will look at a ceiling decorated with ornate plasterwork and hear my inner Molesworth observe, 'Ooh - awesome dobberwork.'
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I remember seeing that! I doubt I would have thought about it ever again but as soon as I read ''very primitive attempt at plaster decoration'' I just knew what was coming next!

And I bet you also stuck chewing gum under the desks didn't you?
 
Floyd1 said:
I remember seeing that! I doubt I would have thought about it ever again but as soon as I read ''very primitive attempt at plaster decoration'' I just knew what was coming next!...
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It's probably universal - a case of convergent evolution maybe.

I mean, what latent Artful Dodger has not thought at one time or another:

Okay. I'm going put whatever that is in my mouth and chew on it.

If I can't eat it, I'll throw it at something.

Beresford said:
Not really in common use now, but to us a dobber was a penis.
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Okay, maybe not in that case. Unless you went to a public school maybe.
 
Some bits of the moors up near me are still little enclaves in their own rights, but more movement takes place than used to, with people buying cottages as holiday homes/weekend places etc.

But I do know somone local who says that, a matter of maybe only fifty years ago, when people would 'come down' into town from villages as far away as ooh, five miles or so, they would be difficult to understand because they had their own dialect and accent that the 'locals' couldn't understand.

It's largely died out now. But North Yorkshire does still have its own peculiarities. 'Now then' is a greeting, not an admonishment. The first time someone said it to me, I thought 'what have I done?' But 'now then' just means 'hello'. Often abbreviated to 'now', when two farmers are greeting one another.
 
catseye said:
Some bits of the moors up near me are still little enclaves in their own rights, but more movement takes place than used to, with people buying cottages as holiday homes/weekend places etc.

But I do know somone local who says that, a matter of maybe only fifty years ago, when people would 'come down' into town from villages as far away as ooh, five miles or so, they would be difficult to understand because they had their own dialect and accent that the 'locals' couldn't understand.

It's largely died out now. But North Yorkshire does still have its own peculiarities. 'Now then' is a greeting, not an admonishment. The first time someone said it to me, I thought 'what have I done?' But 'now then' just means 'hello'. Often abbreviated to 'now', when two farmers are greeting one another.
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I remember 'nah then' but it was used only by the older 'true' natives and was probably a bit old fashioned even then. Also 'how do' which I'll still say occasionally.

There was a short period around late 80s/early 90's where some people started saying 'surrey' as in ''How are you surrey''. I have no idea what that was all about.
 
Floyd1 said:
I remember 'nah then' but it was used only by the older 'true' natives and was probably a bit old fashioned even then. Also 'how do' which I'll still say occasionally.

There was a short period around late 80s/early 90's where some people started saying 'surrey' as in ''How are you surrey''. I have no idea what that was all about.
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'How do' is a bit more West Yorkshire. That's probably how they talk in Leeds (spit).
 
catseye said:
'How do' is a bit more West Yorkshire. That's probably how they talk in Leeds (spit).
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My late father, not remotely Yorkshire, would 'Ah doo!' to acquaintances and workmates who'd say it back.

Took me years to work out that they were saying 'How do you do?' :chuckle:
I think it was probably a railway thing.
 
escargot said:
Took me years to work out that they were saying 'How do you do?' :chuckle:
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Actually, 'How do you do' is not a question and the reply should not be ''fine thank you'' (or similar), but ''How do you do''.
Mr P. Edantic.
 
Floyd1 said:
Same with being drunk; ''I was absolutely blackboarded/carparked/shoeboxed..... last night''.
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We should adopt a Fortean saying, by which we will all know each other - like a Masonic handshake, only..err...not.

So we could introduce ourselves to strangers by saying 'Hobble-de-hoy, my old spongemaster!' If we get back the greeting 'Soaked, old boy, just soaked!' then we would know ourselves to be in the presence of another member of the forum.

If we get huge side-eye, avoided or, indeed, arrested, then we shall know that the other party is not 'one of us'.
 
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