LOTR: The Rings Of Power Series

blessmycottonsocks

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Needs to be an amusing, larger-than-life character but who appears just one short step away from craziness.

I reckon Sasha Baron Cohen could pull that off.
Here he is with "Goldberry":

baron.png
 

skinny

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Tricky casting. Need someone wisened yet evergreen.
 

Stormkhan

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Oh god, he'd be terrible.

I've always imagined Tom Bombadil as the singer from Jethro Tull.
Ian Anderson? As a fan I met him and he's laid back but a lot more savvy than you think.
Looks the part (back then) but he played the rural trickster rather than was the rural trickster.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Watched episode 6 tonight.
Oh dear. I was rooting for the poor bloody Orcs by the end and what on (Middle) Earth have they done with Galadriel? That callous bitch queen baying for the death of every last Orc just wasn't Tolkien's Galadriel.
 

Sgt Girth

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Haven’t seen it……probably never will….but from what I’ve gathered from various reviews, just about none of this could be classed as Tolkiens!
 

Stormkhan

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Haven’t seen it……probably never will….but from what I’ve gathered from various reviews, just about none of this could be classed as Tolkiens!
I admit, my opinion is based on excerpts and review clips I've seen on YT. I'm not big on modern fantasy movies, so I'm not competent to judge technical aspects. But I'm a reader, a 'mild' Tolkien fan and a book/writing reviewer.
The writers ... er ... showrunners started out by saying they were going to 'fill in' the detail that Tolkien missed out in the Silmarillion. As the publicity and trailers were leaked, they then changed; they were basing it on Tolkien but writing it with a modern sensibility. They declared that they were improving on his work. Now, they claim that they wrote it influenced by Tolkien, but it's what JRR would've written, had he been alive today. All absolute nonsense.
They decided to write a competitor to Game of Thrones/House of The Dragon, using the only Tolkien property they could get the rights to. Hence, they're not hobbits - they look like hobbits (because of fan popularity) but are 'harfoots'. In essence, Amazon wanted the enormous fan base of Tolkien but, as trailers and teasers were released, they were disappointed with the reception so decided to blame the fans.

My missus is a huge Tolkien fan. Her family have seen it and enjoy the series. She's waiting until a Christmas visit before binge-watching with them and - fairly - she's reserving judgement until then.
I don't think it's fans finding fault where there is none. I think it all depends on how you enjoy such shows. Indifferent fans might be disappointed it's not like the Peter Jackson productions but will enjoy the spectacle.
 

Ogdred Weary

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I admit, my opinion is based on excerpts and review clips I've seen on YT. I'm not big on modern fantasy movies, so I'm not competent to judge technical aspects. But I'm a reader, a 'mild' Tolkien fan and a book/writing reviewer.
The writers ... er ... showrunners started out by saying they were going to 'fill in' the detail that Tolkien missed out in the Silmarillion. As the publicity and trailers were leaked, they then changed; they were basing it on Tolkien but writing it with a modern sensibility. They declared that they were improving on his work. Now, they claim that they wrote it influenced by Tolkien, but it's what JRR would've written, had he been alive today. All absolute nonsense.
They decided to write a competitor to Game of Thrones/House of The Dragon, using the only Tolkien property they could get the rights to. Hence, they're not hobbits - they look like hobbits (because of fan popularity) but are 'harfoots'. In essence, Amazon wanted the enormous fan base of Tolkien but, as trailers and teasers were released, they were disappointed with the reception so decided to blame the fans.

My missus is a huge Tolkien fan. Her family have seen it and enjoy the series. She's waiting until a Christmas visit before binge-watching with them and - fairly - she's reserving judgement until then.
I don't think it's fans finding fault where there is none. I think it all depends on how you enjoy such shows. Indifferent fans might be disappointed it's not like the Peter Jackson productions but will enjoy the spectacle.

This is absolutely Amazon's Game of Thrones, the thinking was: Game of Thrones is fucking massive, let's have our own, what's the biggest Fantasy property in the World? We have shitloads of money, let's nab that!

Harfoots are a type of Hobbit within Tolkien's mythology, they've made them "proto-Hobbits" here. The Tolkien "fanbase" is massive but is still about 0.1% of the population, they were and are going for casual viewers who are the people who drive the success of anything massive, the assembled armies of nerdom are only a minority despite the popular culture of the last two decades pandering to and grooming them.

From what I understand Amazon do not have the rights to The Silmarillion but they do have the rights to use some characters, places and ideas from both it and LOTR. I'm not surprised that they went for a "modern sensibility" as they can make it more like Game of Thrones and are freer to do what they want with it, it will also likely change in future depending on audience reactions.
 

Stormkhan

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There is also the factor that the big media corps have discovered 'fan baiting':
If you make your cast diverse and inclusive then you can use this to block or counter any criticism of the product. In effect, a critic can give perfectly valid commentary on the actual technical substance which is countered by producers, stars etc. as "You don't love this? You must be an [insert nastiness here]-ist!"
Let me be very clear - I think inclusion and diversity in any media is valuable. But I think there's push back from when this diversity and inclusion is so heavy-handed and counter to the actual story.
 
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blessmycottonsocks

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"I'm not surprised that they went for a "modern sensibility" as they can make it more like Game of Thrones"

It was never going to occupy the edgy 15 to 18 rating of GoT, as Amazon Prime's stated remit was to make their modernisation of Tolkien "family friendly". The official rating for The Rings of Power is "Suitable for all" (the old "U"), but it just may stray into PG areas at times.
 

Ogdred Weary

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There is also the factor that the big media corps have discovered 'fan baiting':
If you make your cast diverse and inclusive then you can use this to block or counter any criticism of the product. In effect, a critic can give perfectly valid commentary on the actual technical substance which is countered by producers, stars etc. as "You don't love this? You must be an [insert nastiness here]-ist!"
Let me be very clear - I think inclusion and diversity in any media is valuable. But I think there's push back from when this diversity and inclusion is so heavy-handed and counter to the actual story.

I mostly agree, this sort of thing does put us dangerously close to culture wars territory which the mods, quite rightly, want avoided.

I don't know if any of the casting makes any real difference to this series or anything else but it can be used as weapon to counter any criticism, as you say. On the other hand, it also draws a certain kind of person to blame these choices on why the the thing might be bad, there are many youtube channels dedicated to this and many of them may not be "ist" but they also pander to "ists".

Ultimately many things, aren't very good, throwing a large amount of money at them can make them look good, as has happened here - the most expensive TV show ever but that won't make your series or movie actually good. It's perfectly possible, maybe even likely that a billion dollar faithful version of The Simarilion with a decidedly Nordic looking cast would also be average or even poor.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I mostly agree, this sort of thing does put us dangerously close to culture wars territory which the mods, quite rightly, want avoided.

I don't know if any of the casting makes any real difference to this series or anything else but it can be used as weapon to counter any criticism, as you say. On the other hand, it also draws a certain kind of person to blame these choices on why the the thing might be bad, there are many youtube channels dedicated to this and many of them may not be "ist" but they also pander to "ists".

Ultimately many things, aren't very good, throwing a large amount of money at them can make them look good, as has happened here - the most expensive TV show ever but that won't make your series or movie actually good. It's perfectly possible, maybe even likely that a billion dollar faithful version of The Simarilion with a decidedly Nordic looking cast would also be average or even poor.
Amazon's bloody-mindedness in only acknowledging that there can be two types of review rating; either 5 star gushing praise, or 1 star racist trolling, has angered the Tolkien purists unable to submit their genuine criticism. It has also backfired badly on the overall rating of the show. So many comments make the same point along the lines of "I was going to rate it as 3 stars, but have dropped to 2 stars to reflect Amazon's untenable attitude".
 

SimonBurchell

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I see various references to the Silmarillion above, but I don't think the series is based on that book (it is, admittedly, a very long time since I last read it) which dealt more with the flight of the elves from Valinor, and the war against Morgoth. I think the series has been drawn from the appendices of Lord of the Rings and, possibly, Unfinished Tales (which I also have not read for a very long time).
 

Coal

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Amazon's bloody-mindedness in only acknowledging that there can be two types of review rating; either 5 star gushing praise, or 1 star racist trolling, has angered the Tolkien purists unable to submit their genuine criticism. It has also backfired badly on the overall rating of the show. So many comments make the same point along the lines of "I was going to rate it as 3 stars, but have dropped to 2 stars to reflect Amazon's untenable attitude".
In the end, if it's dreadful, it'll cost them gazillions, reviews or not.
 

Kondoru

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The Second Age is very much a Tabla Rasa.

JRRT Sketched out the outlines but not much more.
 

Lb8535

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Back to casting Bombadil. One of the Carridines, any of them.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Well The Rings of Power series 1 ended on a whimper last night.
Galadriel was as moody as ever, especially after her pet human turned out bad.
Elven jewel-smiths were busily making cheap knock-off mithril-plated rings.
Gandalf, who could barely stammer out a word last week, is now capable of waxing lyrical and even reprises a line from Lord of the Rings ("always follow your nose").
Not an orc in sight, but at least the brummie Leprechaun hung up his shillelagh for good.

So that's it until probably 2024.
I can hardly contain my indifference.
 

Kondoru

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I think the problem is the build up is very slow.

(Same as `Andor` which is doing fine).

Folk these days like to start in media res.
 
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