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The Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot Film

One thing I especially like about this forum compared to others I've browsed over the years is the lack of visible smart-alec, destructive glee in the more sceptical members. On some boards I've read, a person only has to start a thread about something 'Fortean' for the subject to be near-instantly dismissed as fantasy/unscientific/completely unproven/supposedly evident immaturity on the part of the OP & others. That offensive aura of 'I know best, whereas you are a mere child. Or a liar' doesn't seem to exist here, thankfully.
 
kamalktk said:
However, few of those square miles are far away from humanity. The most remote you can be from a road in the continental US is 21.7 miles from a road. However that spot itself is less than a mile from a trail.

""We were sitting in the Wyoming remote spot, and there was a cabin five-tenths of a mile away," says Ryan.
......
In Idaho they saw a light aircraft within two miles of the remote spot. In Montana they met hunters. In New York and New Mexico, there were rangers' cabins."
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The farthest point from a tarmac road in the UK is less than 5 miles. There are ~11,000 otters in the UK. They are roughly 5 to 6 feet long. How many otters has the average person seen in the wild?

maximus otter
 
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The average adult otter I have seen is maybe 3 1/2 feet long?
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maximus otter said:
The farthest point from a tarmac road in the UK is less than 5 miles. There are ~11,000 otters in the UK. They are roughly 5 to 6 feet long. How many otters has the average person seen in the wild?

maximus otter
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Great point well made.

Also "tarmac road" includes miles upon miles of rural back roads with grass growing down the middle and no bridges over fords etc that are miles from the nearest town and see only the occasional vehicles. Take the county of Devon as an example, I've walked along such roads in Devon and for those who don't know the county it resembles France in shape i.e. a broad landmass with two separate coastlines and at 8,000 miles has the largest road network in England:

https://www.devon.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/traffic-information/#:~:text=Devon has over 8,000 miles,road network in the country.

Devon also boast two National Parks and areas like the north-west of the country that are truly rural in the sense of low population density and minimal light pollution. If big cats or any other cryptid were to be witnessed in these parts it would most likely be kept within the local community unless there were serious predations of livestock, as happened in the rural north of the country during the late 1970s/early 1980s and the subsequent media hysteria about the 'Best of Exmoor'.

My point? Beyond the major cities, towns and transport arteries Britain is rural:

"Rural areas cover the majority of the UK’s landmass. However, this proportion varies between the different countries within the UK. For example, rural areas make up 90 percent of England, while they make up 98% of Scotland."

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/fact-file-rural-economy/#:~:text=How much of the UK,make up 98% of Scotland.

... and connected by miles of rural roads, many of which are single carriageways that receive little maintenance. So, just because some thing happened "near a tarmac road" doesn't mean it happened in a populated area. Oh, and I've seen otter prints but only one otter in the flesh and that was a fleeting glimpse in torchlight and I used to live close to a river populated by them.
 
Steven said:
One thing I especially like about this forum compared to others I've browsed over the years is the lack of visible smart-alec, destructive glee in the more sceptical members. On some boards I've read, a person only has to start a thread about something 'Fortean' for the subject to be near-instantly dismissed as fantasy/unscientific/completely unproven/supposedly evident immaturity on the part of the OP & others. That offensive aura of 'I know best, whereas you are a mere child. Or a liar' doesn't seem to exist here, thankfully.
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Speaking as someone in the more sceptical end of Forteanism, I find the biggest problem with many sceptical commentators (and particularly with the average internet sceptic) is that they have nothing interesting to say about human experience.

And whatever you think about various Fortean phenomena, humans have some pretty damn interesting experiences.
 
BS3 said:
Speaking as someone in the more sceptical end of Forteanism, I find the biggest problem with many sceptical commentators (and particularly with the average internet sceptic) is that they have nothing interesting to say about human experience.

And whatever you think about various Fortean phenomena, humans have some pretty damn interesting experiences.
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Agreed, I quite often pop over to Metabunk if I'm looking into a certain UFO sighting and there are some scientifically accomplished people on there but crikey it is lacking in emotional intelligence.
 
I apologise to anybody that I may have pissed off.
I probably didn't express myself very well.
(I work in a shop you see)
 
maximus otter said:
The farthest point from a tarmac road in the UK is less than 5 miles. There are ~11,000 otters in the UK. They are roughly 5 to 6 feet long. How many otters has the average person seen in the wild?

maximus otter
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True, but how many people would find sighting an otter newsworthy to report it to authorities? And there are plenty of clear pictures of otters as well. An 7-8 foot tall bipedal ape is newsworthy.

I don't buy the theory that Bigfoot appears to remote communities and they just don't talk about it to outsiders. We already have an example of a cryptid appearing to a remote community and what will happen, eg the Mothman. And I don't think there's really any communities that are out of the reach of all the tv shows and internet about Bigfoot. A Bigfoot would be big money for these places.

Back to my initial point, a physical Bigfoot creature would need a lot more food than an otter. This impacts the required range needed to support a single creature, much less a sustainable population. While there's a lot of forest, and some of it remote, it's not so remote as to really be "untouched by humans", as evidenced by the maintained road near the Patterson-Gimlin film site. It's not New York Times Square, but there is enough human activity present in the area there is a road. It's extremely likely any livable range for a Bigfoot would have to cross roads, and thus intersect with human activity. The end result is there's just not that many places for a Bigfoot to hide.
 
kamalktk said:
However, few of those square miles are far away from humanity. The most remote you can be from a road in the continental US is 21.7 miles from a road. However that spot itself is less than a mile from a trail.

""We were sitting in the Wyoming remote spot, and there was a cabin five-tenths of a mile away," says Ryan.
......
In Idaho they saw a light aircraft within two miles of the remote spot. In Montana they met hunters. In New York and New Mexico, there were rangers' cabins."
Click to expand...

That's testament to how many roads the US has, it's also a little deceptive, many of those will be far from housing and even further from towns and many will be unsealed and seldom used.
 
Ogdred Weary said:
That's testament to how many roads the US has, it's also a little deceptive, many of those will be far from housing and even further from towns and many will be unsealed and seldom used.
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Yes, for instance the road next to the film location is a dirt road, it's not a highway. However its presence means there is enough human activity nearby to have a maintained road through the forest there.
 
There is a very long detailed article in Wikipedia giving pros and cons.

Something I missed over the years is Kodachrome II was new at the time and not many places could develop this type of film. It was never explained where the film was developed.

A speed for the film was 16 or 18 and not the normal 24 frames per second.

Then Disney studios who were pro argued with MGM who were con because they had people dress as apes because they were filming 2001–A Space Odyssey——-a little strange.
 
And to be honest, it just holds on that one frame and doesn’t explore things in other frames like the nap of the fabric flipped across the shoulders catching the light differently or the plimsole effect of the soles of the feet of a creature supposedly treading that path continuously in the wild. Also, apes rarely have hairy breasts.
 
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From the CFZ:

"Here we have the first of a two-part interview with MK Davis, which may well be the most important show that we have ever broadcast. I have never really heard of him before, but he is an engaging and fascinating interviewee, who knows – and has found out – stuff about the 1967 Patterson Gimlin footage of a Sasquatch at Bluff Creek in Northern California, which will truly horrify you.Unusually, I am issuing a trigger warning that some of the stuff and one or two of the images in the show may be upsetting, or cause stress. They certainly upset me . JD"


Part Two:

"Here we have the second of a two-part interview with MK Davis, which may well be the most important show that we have ever broadcast. I have never really heard of him before, but he is an engaging and fascinating interviewee, who knows – and has found out – stuff about the 1967 Patterson Gimlin footage of a Sasquatch at Bluff Creek in Northern California, which will truly horrify you.Unusually, I am issuing a trigger warning that some of the stuff and one or two of the images in the show may be upsetting, or cause stress. They certainly upset me . JD"


As a follower of the CFZ's work I don't wish to be rude but I wish this chap Davis would just get to the point of what he is claiming rather than going around the houses
 
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