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People Who Feel Wrong

PeteS said:
Funnily enough an ex of mine had a brother just like that. He would turn up when in ( seemingly permanent) trouble, until I chucked him out , with the approval of said ex. Weirdly, he had a lot of great skills and could have made a good life for himself. No idea whether he turned his life round - I hope he did.
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And oddly enough, my brother (who I never really spoke to again, and my husband absolutely refuses to speak of him) never married, is a loner I hear, and ran to another state to live with and mooch off my parents, who absolutely believed his story of -sob- innocence. LOL!
And like your ex's brother, mine was highly talented, his construction skills were immense, there was nothing he couldn't do.
Typical sociopath, I believe.
 
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Ronnie Jersey said:
And oddly enough, my brother (who I never really spoke to again, and my husband absolutely refuses to speak of him) never married, is a loner I hear, and ran to another state to live with and mooch off my parents, who absolutely believed his story of -sob- innocence. LOL!
And like your ex's brother, mine was highly talented, his construction skills were immense, there was nothing he couldn't do.
Typical sociopath, I believe.
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Funny that, said ex's brother was also a construction genius and had incredible joinery skills as well. He could make anything in timber.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
Never really knew what a sociopath was, let alone suspected I had a family member with that description.
.
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Very sorry to hear this.

From what you have written, it sounds as if he was addicted to drugs and needed money to pay for the, and they left him with a chaotic lifestyle.
It takes an awful lot to steal from family
 
Ghost In The Machine said:
I enjoyed this book, a couple years back:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Put-Me-Back-My-Bike/dp/0224080180/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2S5ONMW70T0NQ&keywords=tom+simpson&qid=1642674411&s=books&sprefix=tom+simpson,stripbooks,73&sr=1-3

(About Tom Simpson, the British cyclist who died during the Tour de France in 1967, for the non cyclist people). Something very cool about 1960s' racing.
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I remember Simpson's death. It was the first I'd heard of the Tour and made a big impression around endurance and desperation.

Simpson's last words weren't 'Put me back on my bike'. That was made up by a tabloid journalist.
He really said 'On, on, on!' which is altogether more dignified.
 
PeteS said:
Ms P has, from time to time, to employ agency workers due to staff shortages. A new to her company owner made contact recently asking if they were in need of agency staff because they had a few new recruits. Ms P didn't like the sound of the guy but decided to try them out with one worker for a couple of days. On the second day said worker (working legally in the UK) asked if he could have a word. He was concerned that the employer had taken his passport off him and wouldn't give it back and that he was living in a small house with 10 other people. Was this normal in the UK? Straight on phone to the Police who took the matter very seriously. Nothing further was heard of the company.
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When I worked in care homes there were agencies that did similar. Foreign workers' passports would be taken for 'safe keeping' and the workers housed in bedsits.
After shift I'd fill my car with them to get them home safely as they'd otherwise have to walk a couple of miles along dark lanes or city roads.

I'd sometimes have to ask the men to bump-start whatever banger I was driving. I bet they laugh about that now. :chuckle:
Lovely people.
 
Victory said:
From what you have written, it sounds as if he was addicted to drugs and needed money to pay for the, and they left him with a chaotic lifestyle.
It takes an awful lot to steal from family
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It was only later on, that I found out he had been steadily stealing from almost everyone he knew and hung out with - his nickname was 'Sticky Fingers', LOL!
He went on a job and borrowed our friend's very expensive tools, never gave them back.
As for family, I don't think he cared, everyone was there for his use. And it all started long before his drug use when he was a child. Looking back, I think of him as a 'shell' of a person, I honestly don't believe he is even human, there is something evil about people like that, something else is inhabiting him.
 
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Ronnie Jersey said:
it all started long before his drug use when he was a child.
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The difficulty is identifying sociopathic traits in children. There is current research that is showing that if a child is identified as having sociopathic traits early enough, that they can be taught empathy and learn how to read people's emotions and respond in caring ways.
 
brownmane said:
The difficulty is identifying sociopathic traits in children. There is current research that is showing that if a child is identified as having sociopathic traits early enough, that they can be taught empathy and learn how to read people's emotions and respond in caring ways.
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The thing is that when it occurs in your own family, you really don't see it, or even want to.
I remember my Dad had a valuable coin collection for years, he had it hidden away in his closet. One day it was simply missing - my parents asked my brother about it, he simply denied it with a straight face and pinned it on a friend of MINE, someone who had no knowledge of this coin collection. He always had a pigeon ready to blame all his crimes on, and was always ready with that face of 'I would never do such a thing', and he got away with it for many years.
When I went after my brother about our friend who he had stolen some very expensive tools from, he just denied even knowing what I was talking about, must have been someone else.
Like I said, you are dealing with people who are really not human, I firmly believe that evil occupies their mind and body, if you want to call it the Devil (I don't know if I can say that word here?) that's what it actually is.
Sure, you can teach them to 'act' appropriately, with emotions that they do not have, but that's all it is, an 'act'.
Just my opinion from dealing with this evil for years.
 
brownmane said:
The difficulty is identifying sociopathic traits in children. There is current research that is showing that if a child is identified as having sociopathic traits early enough, that they can be taught empathy and learn how to read people's emotions and respond in caring ways.
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Or taught to feign empathy...
 
Bad Bungle said:
The bus home tonight stopped at a Bus stop - it's what buses do, but I've never stopped at that Bus stop before. Door opens and it's a looong pause before a man gets on. Bus driver asks him to put a mask on please - he hasn't got one but attempts to pull his jacket up over his mouth (indicating that he wasn't exempt). She shoos him off the bus and closes the door, switches off the engine and gets out of her cab. Under her seat are some spare masks, she opens the door, gives him the mask, closes the door, gets back into the cab and restarts the engine. Driver then lets masked man on and asks where he wanted to go - a single to the end of the line. He pays by card but there was a problem, the card is not accepted. Second attempt, same result. Driver resets the ticket machine and he tries again but the card is not even recognised by the reader as being present. He has no money, wants to try again but Driver points out that she has to move off (6 minutes spent so far). Fourth and fifth attempt on card reader and driver asks him to leave bus.
Maybe the man was a wrong-un, maybe he was just stoned or unlucky, maybe the rest of us passengers felt a little relieved when he got off the bus and we carried on our way.
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From working in the shop, I can only say it is truly ASTONISHING how many people think pulling their T shirt up over their nose, or putting their coat collar up so that their mouth is covered is the same thing as wearing a mask.
 
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SimonBurchell said:
Or taught to feign empathy
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New research indicates that it can be learned. I think people, in general, learn empathy as they socialize with more and more people. And mature. Children have many sociopathic traits eg. self-centredness until they mature and learn how their behaviour affects others. There's a reason adults have to teach young children to share.

I know people with very narrow world views, and they are not as empathetic to others who do not have the same life experiences. I think the old adage "walk a mile in another's shoes" is exactly how people learn to extend empathy to others.

There are people who would be classified as sociopathic, but are able to have happy, loving relationships. Some of them are aware of their tendencies. There are a couple of videos on yt where people talk about themselves and how they experience it.
 
catseye said:
From working in the shop, I can only say it is truly ASTONISHING how many people think pulling their T shirt up over their nose, or putting their coat collar up so that their mouth is covered is the same thing as wearing a mask.
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Even worse are the little children wandering about, with no masks on - how their parents do not see what kind of danger they are in is beyond me!
 
brownmane said:
New research indicates that it can be learned. I think people, in general, learn empathy as they socialize with more and more people. And mature. Children have many sociopathic traits eg. self-centredness until they mature and learn how their behaviour affects others. There's a reason adults have to teach young children to share.

I know people with very narrow world views, and they are not as empathetic to others who do not have the same life experiences. I think the old adage "walk a mile in another's shoes" is exactly how people learn to extend empathy to others.

There are people who would be classified as sociopathic, but are able to have happy, loving relationships. Some of them are aware of their tendencies. There are a couple of videos on yt where people talk about themselves and how they experience it.
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I'm so sorry to say that I will never believe that some, such as my brother, would EVER be able to learn emotion of any type.
I was forced to speak with him only once recently after my Dad passed on, and he was as cold and icy as he ever was, couldn't care less about anything except $, didn't care that our Dad was gone, nothing. Just a big gaping hole, with plans of moving on with his life, etc.
Perhaps he is the exception to the rule, I'm no expert.
I once knew a man who always had a big smile on his face, very personable and amiable, everyone liked him. He happened to work with me, and my boss once mentioned to me that he couldn't figure out what was wrong with Jack. I hadn't said anything, but I noticed that when I asked Jack a question on anything, he would keep that same smile on his face as he rattled off any old thing that came into his mind, any excuse, lie, whatever. My boss had been after him about why something hadn't been done, and Jack replied with the same smile pasted on, that his wife was in the hospital on her deathbed, expected to die at any moment, and that's why he had never gotten to do whatever it was.
Well of course we all felt terribly about it, until it turned out that his wife was alive and well, and hadn't been to the hospital at all.
Sociopath? Not sure, really, but definitely not right.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
I'm so sorry to say that I will never believe that some, such as my brother, would EVER be able to learn emotion of any type.
I was forced to speak with him only once recently after my Dad passed on, and he was as cold and icy as he ever was, couldn't care less about anything except $, didn't care that our Dad was gone, nothing. Just a big gaping hole, with plans of moving on with his life, etc.
Perhaps he is the exception to the rule, I'm no expert.
I once knew a man who always had a big smile on his face, very personable and amiable, everyone liked him. He happened to work with me, and my boss once mentioned to me that he couldn't figure out what was wrong with Jack. I hadn't said anything, but I noticed that when I asked Jack a question on anything, he would keep that same smile on his face as he rattled off any old thing that came into his mind, any excuse, lie, whatever. My boss had been after him about why something hadn't been done, and Jack replied with the same smile pasted on, that his wife was in the hospital on her deathbed, expected to die at any moment, and that's why he had never gotten to do whatever it was.
Well of course we all felt terribly about it, until it turned out that his wife was alive and well, and hadn't been to the hospital at all.
Sociopath? Not sure, really, but definitely not right.
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Maybe it was his other wife?
 
brownmane said:
New rese

New research indicates that it can be learned. I think people, in general, learn empathy as they socialize with more and more people. And mature. Children have many sociopathic traits eg. self-centredness until they mature and learn how their behaviour affects others. There's a reason adults have to teach young children to share.

I know people with very narrow world views, and they are not as empathetic to others who do not have the same life experiences. I think the old adage "walk a mile in another's shoes" is exactly how people learn to extend empathy to others.

There are people who would be classified as sociopathic, but are able to have happy, loving relationships. Some of them are aware of their tendencies. There are a couple of videos on yt where people talk about themselves and how they experience it.
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@brownmane, as always, I am so delighted with your posts as they are thoughtful, informed, and compassionate (my trifecta for Best Thinking). I wish I could give you an award of some kind.

Regarding sociopathy: I waver about this in terms of it being an absolute condition or a degree of something. I have known persons who seem to exhibit one or the other. For those who seem to exhibit different degrees of it, it wavers over time with their life stressors. For me, in dealing with these folk, the important goals are 1. to protect myself and 2. to remain receptive to the possibility of their becoming better human beings. I have actively encouraged a few people to examine their behavior or seek counseling. I have found that presenting these suggestions in the guise of it giving them more happiness and success is more effective than telling them they are a dick.

I was raised with someone who I suspect is an actual sociopath, both by genetic predisposition and then encouraged by upbringing. When we were children, I was beaten by him many times, and he killed my pets and broke my toys. I remember him deliberately, eagerly watching my face as I discovered my pets were dead. Now that we are adults, I have witnessed him lie, cheat, steal, beat others, and so on for decades. He is good looking, charming, and smart. When I offered to pay his way through drug and alcohol rehab, he was offended at the suggestion he had a problem. Still, he recently took on a difficult task, lasting more than a year, of taking care of someone he loved and who was dying. Every day, he devoted himself to this person. At the same time, he continued his predatory ways with others. WTF.

So, I continue to 1. protect myself and 2. remain receptive to the possibility of their becoming better human beings.
 
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Endlessly Amazed said:
he devoted himself to this person. At the same time, he continued his predatory ways with others. WTF.
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LOL - trust me, this man is looking after another person for ONLY one reason - $$$$$$.
Sociopaths are not interested in others, only in the greatest outcome for THEM, they do not stop mooching and robbing others.
"Common sociopath signs include antisocial behavior as well as a complete lack of both conscience and empathy. A sociopath snakes through life, causing trouble and turmoil with every slither and slide. While the signs of a sociopath are big-time scary, it's important to know what they are to avoid being bitten."

That was my brother, a Snake, the only description I can give of him. And why he never married, sociopaths cannot handle dealing with another person intimately on an every day basis.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
LOL - trust me, this man is looking after another person for ONLY one reason - $$$$$$.
Sociopaths are not interested in others, only in the greatest outcome for THEM, they do not stop mooching and robbing others.
"Common sociopath signs include antisocial behavior as well as a complete lack of both conscience and empathy. A sociopath snakes through life, causing trouble and turmoil with every slither and slide. While the signs of a sociopath are big-time scary, it's important to know what they are to avoid being bitten."
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No, this is not the case. I know quite definitively that money was not an object.

Ronnie Jersey, if one's definition states a "complete" something, then of course the application of this "complete" definition to a person precludes varying shades of gray. I do not live in a bimodal world of black and white. I think my life would be much easier if I did.
 
An interesting person who 'feels wrong' is the woman living downstairs from us - she is not American, and does not speak a word of English. And I regret to say that she is Polish, from Poland. She stays up all night long, every night, running back and forth, making the house shake as if there is an earthquake going on, banging and slamming things, yelling, you name it. We are the only other tenants in the house and like our sleep, but we are woken up constantly with this racket.
Not sure what her problem is, but it is huge, and we cannot wait to find another apartment, the landlord here will do nothing.
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
No, this is not the case. I know quite definitively that money was not an object.

Ronnie Jersey, if one's definition states a "complete" something, then of course the application of this "complete" definition to a person precludes varying shades of gray. I do not live in a bimodal world of black and white. I think my life would be much easier if I did.
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Well if someone had killed my pets for pleasure, I would rethink that!
You have no idea what is in this person's mind.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
An interesting person who 'feels wrong' is the woman living downstairs from us - she is not American, and does not speak a word of English. And I regret to say that she is Polish, from Poland. She stays up all night long, every night, running back and forth, making the house shake as if there is an earthquake going on, banging and slamming things, yelling, you name it. We are the only other tenants in the house and like our sleep, but we are woken up constantly with this racket.
Not sure what her problem is, but it is huge, and we cannot wait to find another apartment, the landlord here will do nothing.
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I would guess a form of ADHD, possibly a mental illness. How does she get along if she speaks no English at all? Does she have family that help her out with form filling, shopping etc? If so, maybe you could corner one for a quiet word sometime.
 
catseye said:
I would guess a form of ADHD, possibly a mental illness. How does she get along if she speaks no English at all? Does she have family that help her out with form filling, shopping etc? If so, maybe you could corner one for a quiet word sometime.
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@catseye, this is a helpful reply. My grandmother lived in the US for over 50 years, and never learned English. She relied on others, with mixed results.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
An interesting person who 'feels wrong' is the woman living downstairs from us - she is not American, and does not speak a word of English. And I regret to say that she is Polish, from Poland. She stays up all night long, every night, running back and forth, making the house shake as if there is an earthquake going on, banging and slamming things, yelling, you name it. We are the only other tenants in the house and like our sleep, but we are woken up constantly with this racket.
Not sure what her problem is, but it is huge, and we cannot wait to find another apartment, the landlord here will do nothing.
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Have you spoken to her? I think you have said you speak Polish but sorry if I got that wrong. :) You may not be able to do anything but you might least get a better idea of what the deal is.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
An interesting person who 'feels wrong' is the woman living downstairs from us - she is not American, and does not speak a word of English. And I regret to say that she is Polish, from Poland. She stays up all night long, every night, running back and forth, making the house shake as if there is an earthquake going on, banging and slamming things, yelling, you name it. We are the only other tenants in the house and like our sleep, but we are woken up constantly with this racket.
Not sure what her problem is, but it is huge, and we cannot wait to find another apartment, the landlord here will do nothing.
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I think that you do currently live in NJ, I'm sure you've thought of this, but there's definitely a problem going on here with behavior inappropriate to the environment. Every municipality has some resource for performing a "welfare visit" to determine if social service help is needed. Sometimes it's the local police department, sometimes there's a local agency. For your own ability to sleep in your apartment you might want to give them a call. It would help her as well.
 
Min Bannister said:
Have you spoken to her? I think you have said you speak Polish but sorry if I got that wrong. :) You may not be able to do anything but you might least get a better idea of what the deal is.
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I don't speak too much Polish, I understand quite a bit of it, she won't speak to us. I've been trying to go through the landlord, who does speak it.
 
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