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Suzy Lamplugh & 'Mr Kipper': A Fred & John West Link?

Lol - all footballers are in league with the Horned One. How else would you explain a bunch of ugly, talentless blokes with no real social value being paid all that money ;) ? Satan is truly abroad when the horror that is the World Cup is foisted on us every four years...

But as for numerology - I've always felt uneasy that such an intricate aspect of Jewish mysticsm is bandied about on subjects that are far removed from it's original use. Kind of like a rumour I once heard about TV stars in the US going to 'Kabbalah classes' and swinging chickens around their heads (or something)!
 
ellisctaylor said:
At the feast young men made garlands of flowers and gave them to the young maidens. The maidens were possibly considered to be fairy princesses. Sometimes only one girl was chosen, who would be representative of the fairy-Queen Aine - the Land Goddess in her positive aspect.
The flower adorned maidens and their beaus would make their way in joyous procession up the hill to the ceremonial site, whereupon they would solemly bury the flowers, as a sign that summer was over. This was considered a way of damping the samos-energy in the environment and at the same time ensuring that it would return to the land to promote fertility at a later time.
Just goes to show how little some people knoweven though they think they are experts, doesn't it, Annasdottir?
And, how dare you suggest that I am a Satanist. You know nothing about me. I have devoted my life to exposing these depraved fools. You're karma awaits, no doubt you are aware.
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You didn't say where that quote came from. And I have never claimed to be an expert on Paganism/Wicca - I am just a practioner with years of experience rather than years of book-reading. And I never accused you of being a Satanist - read what I wrote. BTW, your horror at being accused of satanism, however obliquely, demonstrates your lack of knowledge about contemporary Satanism.
As for my personal karma - that is my business entirely. All I can say about that is that judging from my present life, I must have have some fabulous fun in a previous lifetime!
 
Oh, and another thing - 'Blotmonath' (in your 'Cailleach' article) does not refer to sacrifice. It refers to the time being the last chance for animals to be slaughtered and preserved before the full onset on winter. And also Oct. 31 is only the 'modern' date for Halloween/Samhain - you're using the 'new' calendar ;)
 
JerryB said:
Oh, and another thing - 'Blotmonath' (in your 'Cailleach' article) does not refer to sacrifice. It refers to the time being the last chance for animals to be slaughtered and preserved before the full onset on winter. And also Oct. 31 is only the 'modern' date for Halloween/Samhain - you're using the 'new' calendar ;)
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Yes, the 'old' calender, the Julian calender, was actually 12 days ahead when it was replaced by the Gregorian calender. So all the modern pagan festival dates are about 12 days off, making Samhain/Halloween actually on November 11th. There's an interesting book "Stations of the Sun" (could be wrong, but I think the author is Ron Hutton), which gives an extremely thorough history of all the Heathen/Pagan/Celtic/agricultural festivals. Will our friend read it, I wonder?
 
I wouldn't waste my time refuting ellisctaylor arguments (such as they are). He/she has gone off in a huff because people responded to his/her post with critical thought rather than unquestioning acceptence.

Some people just give Fortean studies a bad name. Without getting too pompous, all Forteans should approach any field in the classic Socrates method : admit you know nothing and then you are already a step ahead from the fools who think they know everything.

Statements like:

'Just goes to show how little some people knoweven though they think they are experts, doesn't it, Annasdottir?'

And:

'You know nothing about me. I have devoted my life to exposing these depraved fools. You're karma awaits, no doubt you are aware.'

These just smack of an arrogance and dogma that will never uncover anything worthy of note.

Personally I hope ellisctaylor comes back as I am in the mood for a decent flame war.

Too much coffee this morning!
 
I'd prefer some informed banter to flame wars any day. The latter are a dime a dozen ;)
 
Ellis

Unfortunately I have far too much time on my hands and, unlike Chasubo, like wasting a bit of time so here is some thoughts about the first paragraph of you theory.

[Persephone was collecting them when she was abducted to the Underworld]

Along with many other types flowers. Probably all metaphores for the emotions and states experienced by Persephone. I wonder if we could shoe horn a connection to ROSE West in here or perhaps VIOLET Bucket?

"The youthful Persephone was gathering roses and lilies, violets and crocuses, hyacinths and narcissuses, when the earth sundered and Pluto, ruler of the Underworld, arose from the ground"
- From traditional Greek lore.

[Lilies are strong occult symbols often associated with the Underworld. But as always in these case there are strong links to the ancient concept of the 'beloved']

I'm not too sure where to find the STRONG OCCULT symbolism, any ideas? Maybe you mean STRONG MYTHOLOGICAL symbolism?

"The lily is deeply identified with the ancient goddesses of the Western world. In Rome, it was said that the first lily sprang from the breast milk of the Great Goddess Juno, empress of nature. In the Middle East, the lily was sacred to Astarte, the primal goddess of fertility. Christianity too associated the lily with the feminine deity, ascribing it to the Virgin Mary."

The English word chalice is derived from calyx, the cup of the lily flower.

- http://www.janez.com/mof/lily.html

How and why would you choose this next giant leap to the Song of Solomon? What relevance over and above countless other texts mentioning Lilies does the 'Song of Solomon possess?

Again the text mentions Roses and also apples. Another 'obvious' pointer in the direction of ROSE West and Gloucester (a traditional Somerset Cider town). And, I went to school with a girl called SHARON West in a village in Gloucestershire. Crikey!

"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys.

As the lily among thorns, so is my love among the daughters.

As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste." - from the song of solomon

[Thorns represent the sun's rays, crowns, fortresses (castles) and for untilled soil, virgin soil.]

Again, notice that the thorns represent life's worries, riches and pleasures. This description of thorns parallels the characteristics common to the fallen nature of mankind. Therefore, indulging the sinful nature has the same effect on the Word planted in the soil of the heart. It serves to hinder the relationship between God and man causing unfruitfulness and immaturity in the life of a believer.
- http://www.crosshome.com/lavelle27.shtml

[It is etablished that 'a beloved' is a priestess, but is it a term for a sacificial victim? Are they one and the same in time?
Witnesses claim this to be the case.]

Could you give us the names and dates of witness statements?

It's not that people here are closed minded its the absence of ANY qualifying references that severely weakens peoples acceptance of your theory. The above questions and statements relate to only the first paragraph of your claims.

There is no mention of any of the recent developments in the case, the alleged link to Michael Sams or the new police search for a potential burial site last year.

It seems to me, after reading your other 'theories' about Sara Payne and Amanda Dowler you have unrealistic grip on reality, trawling the perceived facts for the most tenuous connections to anything and everything will always allow 'proof' of whatever you want.
 
And Gloucester is neither in Somerset nor a cider-producing town!
 
Jerry

Maybe North Avon the boundaries around that area have changed alot over the passed few decades, and it does or has produced Cider on a large scale. Bulmers and Taunton Cider have both had breweries there.
 
ellisctaylor said:
DerekH
I'm afraid that you base your information on the entrenched misunderstandings (to be polite) of Snorri Sturlason (1179 -1241).

May I respectfully suggest to anyone who is interested in the true mythology of Britain that they read "The British Edda" by L.A. Waddell. It's a complete joy and a masterpiece.
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So where do I find a reasoned rebuttal of Sturlason?

Not, IMHO, Professor Waddell. This link contains a facsimile of the frontispiece of his book. I am perplexed by the suggestion that Thor/Adam/Arthur found the Holy Grail 3300-odd years BC.
 
Well, I thought that it was implying that Gloucester was a cider producing centre (like Taunton), rather than being a place where there are breweries ;) And I'd argue that Gloucester isn't really that close to Somerset ;)
 
Edward said:
Jerry

Maybe North Avon the boundaries around that area have changed alot over the passed few decades, and it does or has produced Cider on a large scale. Bulmers and Taunton Cider have both had breweries there.
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No, seriously, Gloucester has pretty much, as it's name suggests been part of Gloucestershire County for the past few decades and I'd be fairly confident that it's been part of Gloucestershire for a considerably longer part of recorded history.

Somerset's boundaries are defined in the Domesday book entries here...

It takes a good 90 minutes to get to the borders of Somerset, by main roads.

:D

Willing to concede the point about the breweries though! But it is hardly the main or even a notable industry there, and there are enough other to prevent it being even a notable drinking product of the region...going a bit retentive here so I'll back track by saying that the Book "Cider with Rosie" was written about a place only about 20 miles away from Gloucester.
 
O.K. i'll stick my hands up to the Geographical f**k-up. I should have known really, I spent my childhhod down there and whilst we never moved house the boundaries of North Avon, Somerset and Glocestershire were always changing. I'd go to sleep in Avon and wake up in Gloucestershire. Bizarre!!:D
 
Sorry if I seem picky - it's just that I'm Somerset born and bred so I was wondering who had tacked Gloucester onto it when I wasn't looking ;)
 
Yeah, Avon winked in and out of existence several times during the eighties. I know that there are still some oddly defined territories in Bristol that would confuse most cartographers.
 
I wonder why they changed, probably something political.

As a teenager it didn't bother me which county I lived in, all me and my friends new was that the 'friendly' farmer down the road would sell us 2 gallons of 'Black Rat' Cider for £1.00, so called because the first brew he made had a dead black rat in, which was nice.

After 2 pints it makes you go blind, no really!

If you want to witness this particular cider miracle The Fox Pub in Old Down still sells it, and in two versions, cloudy or clear. Stear away from the cloudy not only will you go blind you will also suffer 'digestively' if you know what i mean.
 
Lol - yep, cloudy cider is 'ripe' and not 'matured', and can be nasty to the stomach ;) Best cider ever made - Burrow Hill, Somerset.

Might interest Ellis actually, as the hill itself (topped by a pair of trees) is reputed to be the resting place of Arthur and Guinevere...

But I digress... ;)
 
chatsubo said:
But did you know that Rio Ferdinard was sold for 30 million pounds, to Manchester United. Rio Ferdinard is 23 years old. When he was at loan to Brighton his squad number was 24:
30x23 = 690 - 24 = 666
Proof, as if any is needed, that Manchester United are in league with Satan:p
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well they do go by the name of the red devils...
apart from possible satanic links my interest in football goes no further.
 
Oh the chaos. Oh the anarchy.

Four pages starting at Fred West being linked to Suzie Lamplugh, through the queen mum, Wicca/Paganism, satanistic footballers and finishing up a cider producing counties.

I haven't laughed this much in ages.
 
You're right River.

Just look what happens when there isn't an adult to supervise.;)
 
I've only read the Lamplugh page and I'm giggling.

How does the QM fit into it all? What do all those numbers mean/? What do all those flowers mean???

And the factual howlers - St Fredericks day is July 18th, not November 29th.

However, if our friend likes playing with dates, I'm astonished that he missed some anniverseries that occured on 1st January, when Fred West hanged himself.

For instance: January 1st 1801 - discovery of asteroid Ceres. Ceres was the Roman goddess of agriculture and harvesting - and harvesting is an activity that takes place around the time of Laughnasadh!

January 1st 1895 - birth of J. Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI. And West hanged himself exactly 100 years to the day!

January 1st 1958 - European Community formed; 1993 - EC single market came into force. 'Nuff said.

So - Fred West was trying to communicate to us all, by his choice of the date of his death, that the EC was formed by Satanists under the direction of Hoover. Obvious!
 
It was a painful journey and one I'm trying to forget....
*sits huddled in the corner rocking back and forth whilst banging the side of his head against the wall*
 
I'm with you, Styx. But then, I can't take anyone seriously who actually writes n'est pas...that's too much to take.

With a little work (and I do mean little!) we could link Shipman, Zodiac and Jack the Ripper into that framework. What do you reckon, peeps? Could we formulate a believable theory linking all major serial killers in the last 500 years, to make one huge conspiracy? Oh, hang on, I think it might have been done already, I'm not sure. But think of all the nasty loose ends we could tie up!!

BTW, I am joking. I don't really want to start playing that game. I don't want one of those white jackets, extra long sleeves.
 
River_Styx said:
Oh the chaos. Oh the anarchy.
Four pages starting at Fred West being linked to Suzie Lamplugh, through the queen mum, Wicca/Paganism, satanistic footballers and finishing up a cider producing counties.....I haven't laughed this much in ages.
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Hehe - okay then, back to basics...

Did Fred West and his associate have a hand (occult or otherwise) in the murder of Suzie Lamplugh? If so, would the evidence supplied by Ellis be of use to the police and be useful in as evidence in court proceedings?

(Or was Ellis simply drawing attention to his website? If not, then why not give what may be important info directly to the police?)
 
Well it convinced me. It was the tinned fish reference what did it.
 
Edward said:
'Black Rat' Cider .............. so called because the first brew he made had a dead black rat in, which was nice.
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I'm concerned for your health. It's not the quality of the cider which worries me but the presence of a black rat, the animal which traditionally carried plague from foreign parts.

I do hope the farmer is exaggerating and is really using a brown rat!
 
Carnacki said:
Yeah, Avon winked in and out of existence several times during the eighties. I know that there are still some oddly defined territories in Bristol that would confuse most cartographers.
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It confuses people who live there, mate! You get people living next door to one another with different bin-collection days and paying different Council Tax rates to different authorities. The property, oddly enough, costs the same, nonetheless..:rolleyes:

Covert gerrymandering in the mid-nineties, I'm afraid: if the city had been made into a metropolitan county the tories would have been pushed into a small minority from the slim majority they held on the City Council at the time. So despite all the sense it would have made the Major govt decided just to abolish Avon County and dismember it, and return Bristol to City and County status, rather than making Greater Bristol. Come '97 they locally lost out heavily anyway, so it served no great purpose in the long run.

Back to the thread - this theory is just as mad as his Sarah Payne one: look around wildly for anything that may supplement your own ideas and just stitch them on.

Still distasteful, still nonsensical, still worth a look for the entertainment value alone.
 
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