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Tales Of A Flat Earth

Mythopoeika said:
Aren't these things that can be measured independently of our visual perception?
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I don't know if curvature perception can be measured?. .that's the only avenue I'm trying to explore specifically in this for now ..
 
Yes there is at least 1 method off the top of my head. Lasers will create a perfectly straight line that doesn't curve at the horizon. Atmospheric lensing is always going to be an issue though. The curvature of the Earth has nothing to do with the curvature of our eyeballs btw. That is an evolutionary feature that allows our muscles to move our eyes, like a ball and socket joint. It wouldn't matter if our eyeballs were square, we would still view the world from an "injured dog cone" of vision, we just wouldn't have the latitude to move our as much as they wouldn't pivot. A better question is... How come everything in space above a certain mass takes on a somewhat spherical shape when viewed through a telescopic lens? Who is conspiring to make all the lenses make us think the world is round? And for that matter, who hides all the fossils in the rocks, and how do they do it?
 
Swifty said:
I'd be interested to read any scientific theories, papers etc on the matter of how we view straight lines through spherical eyeballs, convex lenses and so on and if that could create a false effect of how we view the horizon from any perspective, from land or air .. could the way we look at things physically make a distant curved looking horizon look like, well, a curved horizon when it might be straight ? ... I personally believe the earth is sphere shaped so I'm just playing devils advocate here ..
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Ummm - an 'O' level physics book perhaps?

Think of this... 'Pin cushion' or 'barrel' distortion is fairly obvious in cameras with very short focal-length (wide angle) lenses and flat film planes - Go-Pros for example. In fact, it occurs with all lenses (where the 'sensor' or film plane is flat) to varying degrees... It's simply that at increasingly longer focal lengths it becomes less perceptible; although other factors such as perspective and depth of field change. i.e. various factors are 'traded off' against each other.

With a curved 'film plane' - or retina - this distortion is mitigated; especially when you attach it to a brain designed to process and 'make sense of' the image. - How did you see straight lines on the old-fashioned CRT TV screens? With the exception of Sony Trinitrons (which were shaped like a section out of a cylinder) these were shaped like a section cut out of a sphere...
 
AlchoPwn said:
Yes there is at least 1 method off the top of my head. Lasers will create a perfectly straight line that doesn't curve at the horizon. Atmospheric lensing is always going to be an issue though. The curvature of the Earth has nothing to do with the curvature of our eyeballs btw. That is an evolutionary feature that allows our muscles to move our eyes, like a ball and socket joint. It wouldn't matter if our eyeballs were square, we would still view the world from an "injured dog cone" of vision, we just wouldn't have the latitude to move our as much as they wouldn't pivot. A better question is... How come everything in space above a certain mass takes on a somewhat spherical shape when viewed through a telescopic lens? Who is conspiring to make all the lenses make us think the world is round? And for that matter, who hides all the fossils in the rocks, and how do they do it?
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Loki hides the fossils in the rocks!
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and...9/why-do-people-still-think-the-earth-is-flat

The real question is do they REALLY believe it? Or are they just being "wacky"?

In all fairness 99% of my - and most people's - scientific knowledge of the world is based on repeating what I've read/heard/been told rather than paying any attention to the detail or putting it to the test. Of course the world isn't flat. But the "of course" is unjustified if I've never thought about it.
 
That shit is just sad. I feel dumber after watching. Sort of like when I watch Murricun politics.
 
gattino said:
... The real question is do they REALLY believe it? Or are they just being "wacky"? ...
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Agreed ... This is the point that's been bugging me about the recent flat-earther resurgence.

In some instances it seems the flat-earth proponent is genuinely convinced the world is flat. In other instances I get the sense it's more like a pseudo-rebellious socially-driven divertissement that's ultimately no more serious than (e.g.) immersive fandom phenomena surrounding SF / comics / fantasy, etc.
 
EnolaGaia said:
Agreed ... This is the point that's been bugging me about the recent flat-earther resurgence.

In some instances it seems the flat-earth proponent is genuinely convinced the world is flat. In other instances I get the sense it's more like a pseudo-rebellious socially-driven divertissement that's ultimately no more serious than (e.g.) immersive fandom phenomena surrounding SF / comics / fantasy, etc.
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I spent the early 80s living in London, and I know there was a 'Flat Earth Society' at large then - which was (apparently) mainly concerned with getting blind drunk and testing the 'flatness' of the earth by falling on your face upon it.

But, I'm afraid, the modern version really does seem to consist of people who are so incredibly stupid and willfully non-educated that they think the world is flat. - Modern technology having supplied this section of 'Infinite Monkeydom' with an endless supply of very sophisticated electronic typewriters they seem to be mainly;

a) Disproving theories about the endangerment of Shakespeare;

b) Giving further weight to the findings of Dunning and Kruger.

...i.e. They are proper eijits. They're just too effing stupid to understand what complete and utter eijits they are.
 
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61-year-old DIY enthusiast and stuntman “Mad” Mike Hughes is planning his first manned launch of a homemade, $20,000 steam-powered rocket with “RESEARCH FLAT EARTH” written on the side on Saturday, the Associated Press reported.
According to the AP, Hughes says he expects his new rocket to hurl him through the skies above the Mojave Desert ghost town of Amboy at up to 500 miles per hour for roughly one mile, attaining a peak altitude of 1,800 feet before it deploys two parachutes. Hughes is a proponent of the Flat Earth theory; the Research Flat Earth group is his main sponsor. Hughes does not “believe in science,” which he told the AP has “no difference” from science fiction.

https://gizmodo.com/uh-this-flat-earthers-homemade-manned-rocket-launch-do-1820627193

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/new...-Mike-Hughes-Rocket-Over-Amboy-458823163.html
 
Just when you thought people couldn't get any weirder or dumber, someone turns up to prove you wrong...
 
Something Mike Hughes is quoted as saying has been bugging me, because it may be some sort of clue to the progressive upsurge in anti-science sentiment.

From the Gizmodo article (Tribble's link above ...):

“I know about aerodynamics and fluid dynamics and how things move through the air, about the certain size of rocket nozzles, and thrust,” he added. “But that’s not science, that’s just a formula. There’s no difference between science and science fiction.”
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It appears he's drawing a line between the practical results of prior scientific investigation and 'science' per se.

I can't figure out precisely where this differentiation applies for Hughes, but I can't shake the feeling it's somehow reflective of the 'have it both ways' thinking his newly-recruited flat-earther sponsors seem to use.
 
It is nowadays relatively easy to see the curvature of the earth for yourself, and it has been done even by some high school students etc. Can't be bothered to go look now, but I'm sure YouTube is replete with videos of this: simply put a cheap camera on a platform and launch it via balloon, to an altitude of 30 or 40 kilometers or so. If the Flat Earth society really wants to find out, it can be done for something like a thousand dollars. Cheap enough, I would think, for such an important question.

Not that it will make a difference: they'll always find a way to dispute the video footage - optical illusion, video tampered with by powers unknown, etc. etc.
 
You could give them a two week ride on a space station and they'd still make up some moronic crap to preserve their delusion. I think a lot of them just do it for attention, but some people really are that dumb.
 
Tribble said:
61-year-old DIY enthusiast and stuntman “Mad” Mike Hughes is planning his first manned launch of a homemade, $20,000 steam-powered rocket with “RESEARCH FLAT EARTH” written on the side on Saturday, the Associated Press reported.
According to the AP, Hughes says he expects his new rocket to hurl him through the skies above the Mojave Desert ghost town of Amboy at up to 500 miles per hour for roughly one mile, attaining a peak altitude of 1,800 feet before it deploys two parachutes. Hughes is a proponent of the Flat Earth theory; the Research Flat Earth group is his main sponsor. Hughes does not “believe in science,” which he told the AP has “no difference” from science fiction.

https://gizmodo.com/uh-this-flat-earthers-homemade-manned-rocket-launch-do-1820627193

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/new...-Mike-Hughes-Rocket-Over-Amboy-458823163.html
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I've a feeling this is going to earn him a mention in the Darwin Awards.
 
Austin Popper said:
I think a lot of them just do it for attention
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Attention, the thrill ride of going up in a dodgy homemade rocket (wonder if he has a dog called Gromit?), and possibly the money he can extract from FE'ers who want "proof". You wonder just how many conspiracy theorists are true believers and how many are just in it for the money.
 
I think he's after attention as well as the money...
 
I have to say, I'm quite taken aback by Mr Hughes and his endeavours.

To be self-taught in engineering requires a fair amount of critical thinking and so it is utterly baffling to think how he managed to get this far in his project without working this out.

The ancient Egyptians worked this out with shadow poles at Heliopolis more than 2,000 years ago with simple maths and observations. Does he think that the earth is unique in the solar system, when all of the other planets are observable as roughly spherical?

I'm just stumped.
 
I think it would be more accurate to say the daredevil is a "self-proclaimed" rocket scientist, engineer, whatever. I would describe him simply as a dumbass.
 
As proved on another topic on here, there is no rational discussion with an obsessive.
 
“Man achieves objective of getting massive publicity while exposing himself to no risk whatsoever.”

Why all the po-faced finger wagging? Whatever happens he’s not hurting anyone but himself.

Drab scenario: Successful launch and landing. Proves himself wrong. Sheepish confession. Returns to obscurity.

Fun scenario: He Wile E. Coyotes himself over 10 square miles of desert, providing the smugerati with years of “I told you so!”-ery; and obsidian-hearted libertarians like me with endless hours of amusing YouTube videos.

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
Drab scenario: Successful launch and landing. Proves himself wrong. Sheepish confession. Returns to obscurity.
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Although he strikes me as the type where sheepish confessions won't come into it and obscurity will not be on his mind. Another interesting insight into how people view reality. You've got to love 'em - endless entertainment on forums.
 
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