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Human_84 said:
Guys, that happens to be the real Loren Coleman. ... Lets make him welcome and get on with some DD talk!
Yes, we gathered it was the real Loren Coleman, and you're very welcome, Loren :). Now, let's please try not to let this become an "Ask Loren directly whatever occurs to us" thread - it's a thread like any other, open to all to ask and answer, about the Dover Demon.

General question - does anyone know how far back do similar sightings go? Are there similar descriptions in Native American folklore, or is it a more recent thing?
 
Something I'd like to point out is the fact that Loren mentions the Dover Demon was 20 times the size of a possum. Thats huge. Also, I'd like to know if the thing was ever seen therafter. It just vanished and was never seen again? And, howcome the police later said that the kids stories didnt match up; when originally it was stated that they were giving genuine information? Discussion open for anyone.
 
stu neville said:
General question - does anyone know how far back do similar sightings go? Are there similar descriptions in Native American folklore, or is it a more recent thing?


Mannegishi : are creatures that belong to the mythology of the Cree Indians of eastern Canada. They are described as pygmy, human-like entities, that resemble 'little men', with long thin legs and arms. They are said to have twelve fingers (six on each hand). Their round hairless, heads, with large eyes and no nose, are apparently quite big in comparison to their small bodies. According to the Cree Indians, the mannegishi are responsible for the pictographs found on rocks in the area, and their dwelling places are among the rocks near rapids. It is said that they are great tricksters and apparently enjoy playing pranks and jokes on humans.

Some people have claimed to see mannegishi-like creatures near Dover, Delaware, which were were subsequently dubbed "Dover Demons." However there is a finger count discrepancy between the two entities.

http://www.paranormality.com/mannegishi.shtml

[Emp edit: Adding in quote tags for clarification.]
 
From the Boston Globe: Link.

It's quite a long article, so to save eyestrain I'm just going to post the beginning of it (I do have the article saved though; lemme know if it disappears from the BG site).

doverdemon.jpg


Dover’s Demon lives on in local lore

By Mark Sullivan, Globe Correspondent | October 29, 2006

DOVER --Twenty-nine years later, William Bartlett stands by his story of what he saw on Farm Street that night. It was an eerie human-like creature, he said, about 4 feet tall with glowing orange eyes and no nose or mouth in a watermelon-shaped head.

"I have no idea what it was," Bartlett, now a 46-year-old artist living in Needham, said in a recent interview. "I definitely know I saw something."
 
Its a great article and also mentions other sightings and strange goings on in the area.

Perhaps its just one of those places?
 
New Dover Demon Sighting?

New Dover Demon Sighting?

Has there been a recent encounter with the famous little entity in Westwood, Massachusetts? Or is this an early 30th anniversary prank unfolding, thanks to Wikipedia?

update here
 
I'm surprised that nobody's commented on the similarities between the Dover Demon and the Loveland (Cincinnati) Frog.
 
I remember as a kid I found a book in our library called "Monsters" It was full of both famous cryptids and movie monsters and one I found very interesting was the dover demon. The information was very limited and I have failed to find in books or papers written about it and I haven't heard of any recent sightings.

Can anyone elighten me as to this cryptids current Bio.

Thanks!
 
If you type in "Dover Demon" in Google, you get plenty of results!

(Or am I misunderstanding your question?)

Apparently it was only seen a few times in 1977 by a bunch of teenagers and may or may not have been an alien, or a hoax, or whatever...
 
No I've done the google search I just couldn't find anything "recent" that was the problem, evrything I turned up was dated. Thank you though!
 
Zilch5 said:
Apparently it was only seen a few times in 1977 by a bunch of teenagers and may or may not have been an alien, or a hoax, or whatever...

I have - somewhere - an anonymous Web "debunking" by a fellow (?) who claims to have been in high school at the same time as the witnesses and that it was indeed a hoax and that they all laughed about it.

On the other hand, does one anonymous statement automatically negate all the named and identified witnesses, interviewed and re-interviewed again and again, who have consistently maintained their testimonies down the years and (now) decades?
 
Thats interesting and exactly the kind of new news I was hoping to hear!
thanks!

Now if only I could find the Goat Man....
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Zilch5 said:
Apparently it was only seen a few times in 1977 by a bunch of teenagers and may or may not have been an alien, or a hoax, or whatever...

I have - somewhere - an anonymous Web "debunking" by a fellow (?) who claims to have been in high school at the same time as the witnesses and that it was indeed a hoax and that they all laughed about it.

On the other hand, does one anonymous statement automatically negate all the named and identified witnesses, interviewed and re-interviewed again and again, who have consistently maintained their testimonies down the years and (now) decades?

Anna Mitchell-Hedges swore in a similar way about the truth of her supposed Crystal Skull discovery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Mitchell-Hedges), which she maintained was true right to the end of her days, despite her story being thoroughly debunked.

In a world where people do demonstrably lie about such things, and with no good way to tell truthful from made up testimony, I wouldn't hold too much truck in sworn eyewitness testimony.

My mate Keith swore blind that a DJ once asked him to drive his open top Porsche from Manchester to Warrington, and he claimed to have put the roof down whilst doing 120mph. He was lying. Many people do that.
 
You're ignoring the fact that Anna Mitchell-Hedges was one person while the Dover Demon episode had MULTIPLE witnesses.

And was the Mitchell-Hedges Skull dis-proven by one, single, anonymous web posting?

If anonymous emails can't be used to document Paranormal events, neither can they be used to debunk them.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
You're ignoring the fact that Anna Mitchell-Hedges was one person while the Dover Demon episode had MULTIPLE witnesses.

And was the Mitchell-Hedges Skull dis-proven by one, single, anonymous web posting?

If anonymous emails can't be used to document Paranormal events, neither can they be used to debunk them.


I would have to agree
 
AndrewLynn said:
Thats interesting and exactly the kind of new news I was hoping to hear!
thanks!

Now if only I could find the Goat Man....

He's likely riding in Pigman's two seater ;)
 
OldTimeRadio said:
You're ignoring the fact that Anna Mitchell-Hedges was one person while the Dover Demon episode had MULTIPLE witnesses.

And was the Mitchell-Hedges Skull dis-proven by one, single, anonymous web posting?

If anonymous emails can't be used to document Paranormal events, neither can they be used to debunk them.

Maybe - my issue though is really with putting too much faith in eyewitness testimony to begin with rather than this particular "debunking"
 
Fats_Tuesday said:
Maybe - my issue though is really with putting too much faith in eyewitness testimony to begin with rather than this particular "debunking"

But if that's the case why are we wasting our precious time here discussing any cryptozoological sightings?

And, come to think of it, how can even multiple eyewitnesses stating that "I personally saw Bill Smith rob the First National Bank" be ethically used to convict in a court of law?
 
OldTimeRadio said:
And, come to think of it, how can even multiple eyewitnesses stating that "I personally saw Bill Smith rob the First National Bank" be ethically used to convict in a court of law?
I used to work for Bill Smith, and I feel sure he'd never do such a thing! ;)
 
I'm here because I'm interested in folklore. I strongly suspect that the vast majority, if not all paranormal and cryptozoological stories are actually manifestations of folklore-in-the-making. At the same time, I love the intriguing if remote possibility that a small number of cases could hold a grain of truth.

Take big hairy hominids, for example. We have tonnes of eyewitness testimony from loads of countries all over the world claiming experiences with bigfoot-type creatures.

The survival of one such unknown species may be a possibility, but the survival of so many in loads of different places, including Australia (which never even had primates before the arrival of man) just stretches the bounds of probability too far for the testimony to be believed. At least the bulk therefore, if not all of this testimony simply has to be bunk, by the rules of probability.

This makes me look for a better explanation for the observed behaviour of the "witnesses", and in this case, it appears most likely to me that we are simply seeing developing folklore.

People do readily lie when telling "ghost stories" and strange tales - I've seen people I know make up encounters and tell them as truth around a camp fire, for the social bonding effect that such storytelling has.

I even did it myself as a kid; I used to sit with my friends and discuss the half cat-half human I'd seen that lived behind the pub near our house and the cyclopic giant centipede that came at us from the darkness as we tried to explore a storm drain under our school - in the latter case, about three of us managed to convince ourselves we'd all seen the same thing - a single staring eye moving towards us out of the darkness.

With regards to eyewitness testimony in legal cases, most would acknowledge it is a highly flawed form of evidence here as well and usually needs backing up with plenty of objective evidence to obtain a conviction:
http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20 ... versky.htm

Whilst problems with eyewitness testimony in law generally revolve around the accuracy of the testimony rather than the honesty, eyewitness testimony of supernatural and fantastical events seems even more flawed to me, as we experience positive social pressures to make up interesting stories and present them as fact. After all, who wants to be the one sat around the campfire that is unable to impress the rest, when our turn comes?
 
In all honesty, I don't believe I've ever told ghost stories around a campfire. I always preferred to read 'em, indoors or maybe on the screened porch, by incandescent light.
 
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