The Moment An 'Advanced' Alien Race Makes Contact—It's Game Over

[eburacum]

Now then is this what you call an armchair investigation?

Analysis Report on Metal Samples from the 1947 UFO Crash on the Plains of San Augustine, New Mexico
Report Author: Steve Colbern
Samples Received: 26 July, 2009
Report Date: 14 October, 2010

It is a garbage investigation, because he has no reason whatsoever to associate this material with a supposed 'UFO' crash in 1947. So the very title of the paper is fraudulent.

 

[EnolaGaia]

It is a garbage investigation, because he has no reason whatsoever to associate this material with a supposed 'UFO' crash in 1947. So the very title of the paper is fraudulent.

It's also a 'garbage' investigation because it:

- lacked any provenance / chain of custody claims that would rule out the submitted items' being modern trash;

- failed to mention submission to a second lab who rejected the most suggestive items because of these deficiencies; and ...

- was rigged to pursue a conclusion framed solely with respect to supporting an insinuation of something remarkable for a 1947 timeframe rather than specifying what the submitted items might actually be.

Check the Extraterrestrial Artifacts thread:

http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/extraterrestrial-artifacts-artefacts.62357

... from post #57 onward.

 

[dr wu]

It's a good interview, so long as you're critical, because most of what DR. Vallee says is so seemingly logical that if you're not paying attention stuff can slip through the cracks. At 33:56 he validates the idea that he himself doesn't think hypnosis is the way to extract information from abductees and then goes on to cite a plethora of supposed experts he's consulted, and so forth, however this amounts to a gate keepers line of vocalized defense without any real scientific proofs of any kind.

My issue with this in particular is it is itself completely un-scientific. In fact, to my knowledge there have been no scientific tests done to either validate, or to disprove his hypothesis that these reports aren't accurate. Now the problem with this is it's not that hard to test.

Dr. Vallee does cite all these so called mental health experts, whom give their opinions, and until proven they are just that, but really we have to ask why go here to invalidate the reports of abductees; who have they themselves ever used hypnosis on? This psychobabble is nonsense extrapolated from the anther of space between their own ears. Going to these people without a recorded case history is nonsense, and it would not be hard to re-create a suitable test.

Creating and applying a scientific test to this issue would not be difficult, to test this all we need to do is to find some willing participants whom we know can be hypnotized. Have a real expert like Bruce Dern select the people. Then without him around, follow and video tape the volunteers for a week, and afterwards have Bruce Dern hypnotize them and then see how accurate their recollections are, and while applying the same processes described by Hopkins and Jacobs. How hard is this to do?

Evidently too hard for a seasoned professional huh?

This refusal to approach the abduction topic scientifically on his part is telling. He himself well knows what constitutes scientific validation and how to apply the scientific process and so why then isn't he doing that? Yet again, he talks about others as doing arm chair investigations?

I'm sorry his credibility or competency is lacking. It's one or the other in this case. Such an oversight by a trained academic in the fundamentals of scientific investigation are startling to say the least.

Now then is this what you call an armchair investigation?

Analysis Report on Metal Samples from the 1947 UFO Crash on the Plains of San Augustine, New Mexico
Report Author: Steve Colbern
Samples Received: 26 July, 2009
Report Date: 14 October, 2010

http://www.ufocrashbook.com/pdfs/Analysis Report on Metal Samples.pdf

Well...the problem is that it's just an interview and not a paper on science methodology. But I agree that a lot of it is Dr Vallee's opinion on matters though his ideas carry a great deal of weight imho since I also believe he's the foremost expert on the ufo enigma that there has ever been.
He has never been all that interested in the so-called abduction aspect since he thinks it's mostly misinformation and probably delusion on the part of the abductees (though he does not dismiss all cases..). He has focused more on sightings and encounters without the abduction factor. And he is all about science as much as is possible within the framework of the ufo enigma.
Without materials and actual events in situ to investigate using science can be very difficult as one can imagine.
He has said this many times before...and also said that in the early days of the 60's and 70's there were opportunities to do some good science in this area but that many simply weren't interested nor was there funding.
He had a group of scientists in various areas that he called 'The Invisible College' to help him behind the scenes so he was very much framing these investigations in a scientific mold. But the enigma wasn't something that stood still for static investigations and many cases were ruined by amateurs who stepped into investigate and tainted the data. (which is why many of the cases he relates in his books were private investigations with The INVISIBLE COLLEGE not open to public scrutiny).
IMO his credibility and competency is not lacking (I don't think anyone is close to his level of ability, honesty, and intelligence..) and is an uninformed comment due to those who have not done their homework around his investigations nor read his books. As I already said he tried to get mainstream science involved several times but was unable to get interest going by normal science.(Peter Sturrock, PhD in physics) did write a book on the subject) Regarding science it cannot get very deeply involved with 'reports' because they are just that 'verbal reports'. And after the fact there is little to no evidence to examine. He has also said this many times (as did Hynek, who often bemoaned the problem of anecdotal material)...again for those who have not done the reading...they don't know what is involved here with the difficulties involved when dealing with anecdotal material.

At any rate I think Dr Vallee would also say this is a real challenge due to the nature of the enigma and the lack of hard interest by mainstream science over the years. For those who wish to broaden their understanding of the problems involved I would recommend his book Revelations which addresses many of these issues...and I would also recommend the book The Trickster by Hansen...a somewhat academic tome which goes into the marginal and liminal aspects of the ufo enigma which makes scientific investigation difficult on multiple levels.
A link to this book...
http://www.tricksterbook.com/

 

[kamalktk]

Well, are so called 'warp drive' engines so recognizable in sci-fi, not at all that complicated - What if it is quite simple?

As Einstein, Planck, and many others made some startling discoveries early in the 20th Century that gave us
nuclear power, etc.
- Might there not be some trick that will give us 'warp-drive' technology here in 21st Century?

Intelligent and speculative responses appreciated,
- Better still 'Beam me up'!


'THE FUTURE IS NOW !!!"

The problem with that is that if warp drives are relatively simple then we would expect to have contact with the inventors already. It derives from Fermi's Paradox. Someone should have shown up already, whether to greet us or eat us. We have lots of liquid water, and so far as we know liquid water is a great thing for life, better than other liquids because of ease of chemical reaction reasons.

 

[AlienView]

The problem with that is that if warp drives are relatively simple then we would expect to have contact with the inventors already. It derives from Fermi's Paradox. Someone should have shown up already, whether to greet us or eat us. We have lots of liquid water, and so far as we know liquid water is a great thing for life, better than other liquids because of ease of chemical reaction reasons.

Hello Kamalktk,
On Alien Hub were I posted for many years {had over a thousand posts and hundreds of likes}as 'alienview-tao' Humans paid attention to me, usually liked what I wrote and even read it - apparently not here
- so I still consider myself to be a displaced alien hybrid in a strange land {ForteanTimes}

Let me try this again:
"UFOs and Nukes: The Secret Link Revealed"
I wont bore you by posting the same thread again - Just the link to see the video:

See video here:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/ufos-nukes-secret-link-revealed/

I've seen most of this stuff before in other videos - This is uptodate and brings together the military bigwigs, who would not be prone to lie or exaggerate {excepting some even more fantastical conspiracy then the actual real presence of ET.}

Please watch the video, take particular note that simultaneous UFO sightings occurred with a complete loss of control of very advanced and dangerous nuclear military missile bases here and in the former Soviet Union.

- If you want more proof than that of the real present reality of ET - Your not going to get it.
Until and if they wipe us out or just drop by to say Greetings Humans...............

 

[AlienView]

And on Sunday the 20th on the Coast to Coast radio show hosted by the famous UFO/Alien investigate reporter George Knapp:

"
DATESunday - August 20, 2017
HOSTGeorge Knapp
GUESTSRobert Hastings, Tony Kail
First Half: Following the publication of his 2008 book, UFOs and Nukes, Robert Hastings has been approached by dozens of military veterans who were involved in UFO incidents at nuclear weapons sites. He joins George Knapp to discuss these testimonies, including that of a former US Navy fighter pilot who took part in intercepts of an unknown aerial craft that hovered over a plutonium production site........"
Quote source:
https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2017/08/20


And from Robert Hastings {the producer of the video mentioned in the previous post} website:

"
About UFOs and Nuclear Weapons
Although most people are completely unaware of its existence, the UFO-Nukes Connection is now remarkably well-documented. U.S. Air Force, FBI, and CIA files declassified via the Freedom of Information Act establish a convincing, ongoing pattern of UFO activity at American nuclear weapons sites extending back to December 1948............"
Quote source:
http://www.ufohastings.com/

 

[eburacum]

Hastings is almost certainly wrong about the connections between UFOs and nuclear weapons sites. He produces a lot of second-hand evidence that doesn't show what he thinks it does. When he does produce first-hand evidence he blows it out of all significance.
You might like to read the somewhat vituperative take-down of Hastings by James Carlson, if you haven't already
https://www.scribd.com/doc/26641522/Americans-Credulous-by-James-Carlson

 

[Coal]

Hastings is almost certainly wrong about the connections between UFOs and nuclear weapons sites. He produces a lot of second-hand evidence that doesn't show what he thinks it does. When he does produce first-hand evidence he blows it out of all significance.
You might like to read the somewhat vituperative take-down of Hastings by James Carlson, if you haven't already
https://www.scribd.com/doc/26641522/Americans-Credulous-by-James-Carlson

Some decent critical thinking there.

 

[eburacum]

Carlson is maybe not a disinterested party- his father is one of the witnesses Hastings references. Carlson is convinced Hastings misrepresented his father's account significantly.

I can't find it now, but I once went through all of Hasting's best evidence - almost all of it was second-hand reports, and the few first-hand reports of actual UFO sightings were at a considerable distance. There were no close encounters of any kind in the data I looked at.

 

[Rick Hunter]

The only time I ever listen to C2C is when Knapp hosts. Will have to give that a listen!

 

[Yithian]

The only time I ever listen to C2C is when Knapp hosts. Will have to give that a listen!

Your identity has been noted, human.

 

[Altria]

I suspect the nuclear -UFO connection to be a cover story,as I know people who worked at some of these locations.Seems that budget restrictions didn't allow for proper maintenance after all we would never ever use them.Anyway that's my theory as warnings are triggered it's best to blame a UFO instead of water causing a short.but nuff said.

 

[Yithian]

I suspect the nuclear -UFO connection to be a cover story,as I know people who worked at some of these locations.

(Sorry)

 

[ramonmercado]

I've heard him many times on talk shows like Coast to Coast and try not to take him too seriously - I still maintain that new age outlook most of the time of a kind of benevolent space brothers that have to act covertly to avoid problems with say culture shock - BUT that is on a good day when i'm a good mood - Sure, as me, you, and others have speculated here, there may be nothing good at all about our still hypothetical aliens - John Mack the famous Harvard psychiatrist wrote a couple of books on the subject when he interviewed many abductees, took them seriously, and at first received much ridicule from his peers, who later accepted his views - though still probably did not believe them.

And then again there is the occult factor as has been pointed out by the famous ufologist, and computer scientist by trade, Jacques Vallee - From his point of view we may be dealing with a phenomena that is real,
but not emanating from this world - Parallel dimensions? - some physicists postulate the real possibility of parallel universes, possibly many, if not an infinite number of universes {ie. Charles Everetts Many Worlds Theory} - And this could explain why UFO sightings seem to come from nowhere, are not bound by normal laws of physics, and seem to disappear as if by magic.


"“If you want to be sure of unusual thing such as aliens or UFOs,
then you have to think about it from an unusual way of thinking.”
― Toba Beta, My Ancestor Was an Ancient Astronaut

"“We live in a world where extraterrestrials could be everywhere and you would never know. A world driven by god’s, unexplained structures, countless stories and extraterrestrial occurrences. There is proof that our planet has been and still continues to be visited by extraterrestrial life, but until we are able to capture and study them, the question will remain. Do Aliens Really Exist?”
― Michael E Emmering


"Hopis have lived in America longer than anyone. We wanted to explore the concept of Earthly visitation through the eyes of people who have also witnessed the rapid evolution of modern culture. For us, their beliefs ring true on so many levels. Hopi prophecy speaks to the destiny of man...in a universe where we are not alone.”
― T.J. Wolf, A GLEAM OF LIGHT

More from Jacques Vallée :

Last week, UFO researcher Jacques Vallée spoke with Alex Tsakiris of Skeptico to discuss the UFO phenomenon and other paranormal topics. While Vallée did not specifically repudiate the work for which he is best known, he continued the gradual shift in his feelings about flying saucers. Vallée has long been an advocate of the so-called ultra-terrestrial hypothesis, whereby UFOs are to be understood as a parapsychological phenomenon originating in human consciousness, but now he is more or less conceding that the only real reason to study UFOs is to use them as a framework for exploring cutting-edge scientific hypotheses that have yet to receive evidentiary support.

“So, among other things,” he said, “the UFO problem is a goldmine for somebody who wants to look at the history of ideas. I mean, you don’t have to take a position for or against UFOs; you just look at the record. […] So, in a way, studying this phenomena (sic) – both parapsychology and the UFO phenomenon – is just a way, it’s a glorious way into what physics is going to be for the next 50 years.” The implication is fairly clear: UFOs aren’t something “real” in any material sense but rather an idea that, by dint of being believed, has become a catalyst for new theories to help investigate their non-existence. In this, I am reminded of Hermeticism and alchemy in the Early Modern period. Neither was “true” in the modern scientific sense, but the effort to try to prove that Hermes really existed helped to develop new historiographic methods that eventually disproved him, just as the effort to explore the material world with Hermetic alchemy sparked new scientific methods that eventually disproved alchemy. ...

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/jacques-vallee-offers-new-claims-about-ufos-in-podcast-interview

 

[Rick Hunter]

Vallee is always ahead of the curve, I enjoy his work. I see no reason why his finds are any less plausible than the usual dyadic of aliens from space vs. hoaxes/misidentification that we are usually presented with as the explanation for UFOs.

 

[AlienView]

Jacques Vallée, UFOs, and the Case Against Aliens

"For more than 20 years after the flying saucer frenzy of the late 1940s, the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (ETH) remained the default explanation for UFOs. Jacques Vallée, a French astronomer and ufologist, was the first to challenge the ETH, and he followed the UFO data towards some unorthodox and fascinating conclusions"

OK - I'll back-off my original proposition "The Moment An 'Advanced' Alien Race Makes Contact - It's Game Over"

It is possible that "THEY" {who, what, and wherever they may originate} - 'THEY' might be experimenting,
playing games, and otherwise and in many ways - might be collecting data for reasons and goals not yet
known by us or 'them'.

Personally I still entertain a hypothetical theory that all biological life, including Human, is part of an alien
genetic experiment whose ultimate reason and goals are still open to speculation.

 

[ramonmercado]

Jacques Vallée Discusses UFO Isotope Ratios and the Nature of Reality on "Grimerica"
9/20/2017

This morning the Daily Grail published an article describing an interview that writer Red Pill Junkie had with Jacques Vallée on Friday’s Grimerica podcast, and it was an embarrassing exercise in hero worship. RPJ, in fact, wrote that “I was just too 'starstruck' and intimidated by being in the presence of such a legend, anyway” to speak to him coherently. I swear I will not understand that. What I do understand is RPJ’s claim that his views on UFOs would change when “I would start rewatching the whole series of [Star Trek:] The Next Generation, available in its entirety on the Netflix platform.” The cross-pollination of science fiction and ufology, presence from the opening moments of the UFO era, is too well established to surprise

But the importance of this interview is that it offers more information of Vallée’s claim, made recently on the Skepticopodcast, that he was in the process of testing UFO debris and that the tests had found unearthly chemical composition. ...

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/j...ratios-and-the-nature-of-reality-on-grimerica

 

[skinny]

Personally I still entertain a hypothetical theory that all biological life, including Human, is part of an alien
genetic experiment whose ultimate reason and goals are still open to speculation.

What evidence have you found to support the possibility so far? Personally, the idea is entertaining but entirely fanciful. It is about the least likely explanation for the phenomenon associated with the UFO flaps of yore. Even if McDonald Trump himself announced tomorrow that we have been hosting non-terrestrial stellar species' since the 50s, I would find the proposition impossible to believe without seeing the evidence with my own eyes. I won't get sucked in. It's just silly.

I have far too much respect for what we know of the cosmos to accede to nonsense speculation about what we don't. Nothing personal.

 

[dr wu]

Thanks to Ramon and Alien-view for the Vallee links.....I always enjoy reading his ideas.

 

[dr wu]

I noticed that this Jason Colavito guy was kind of hard on Vallee in several of his blog posts.
Dr Vallee is a very nice man...conversed via e-mail once with him many years ago.....I wonder why some of these hard core skeptics need to be so rough. If you disagree...that's fine but one doesn't have to bash the other person over the head. I also find the comment about making a buck off the books silly. UFO books don't sell all that well (and does he expect someone to publish them for free...?) ,and Dr Vallee has made most of his money from his academic positions over the years, govt consultations, and his investments in technology in California tech sector.
He also implied that Dr Vallee was a 'faker'....not sure what that's all about since everything I have ever read shows him to be a sincere person regarding his ideas about the ufo enigma. It seems that many of these self styled bloggers like Colavito love to strut their own egos at someone else's expense.

 

[AlienView]

AlienView wrote:
Personally I still entertain a hypothetical theory that all biological life, including Human, is part of an alien
genetic experiment whose ultimate reason and goals are still open to speculation.

Skinny replied:
What evidence have you found to support the possibility so far? Personally, the idea is entertaining but entirely fanciful.

Fanciful - Yes - But not ridiculous.

What does Evolution do? and why does it do it?

For whatever reason, purpose, etc. - Evolution endlessly and ceaselessly experiments - I have no solid ideas why such a thing, such as Evolution, is occurring; and no idea what purpose, direction, or meaning it might have.

To say Evolution has no purpose, meaning, etc. - which many like to say - then relegates theories of
Evolution to less significance then Creationism, which at least implies a purpose and/or meaning.

But if we interject the 'fanciful' hypothesis that an alien, and unknown, species set Evolution into play as
part of an experiment - Suddenly meaning and direction might be surmised - But as Humans are part of
the experiment - It is still very hard to prove - And the direction and meaning can only be speculated upon.

 

[skinny]

Sorry I was a bit heated in my earlier response, AV. Grumpy old atheist.

I understand your perspective. These are very large questions that probably do not have neat answers. However, I would never try to dissuade someone from the search. The panspermic theory of the origin of life on earth is one that is worthy of pursuit. The position, however, that that origin requires a supernatural or alien intelligence to set it in motion is where it becomes a fairy tale retold in a thousand forms in a hundred different places across millennia.

I'm not knocking the various religious stories - there are many humanitarian values embedded in those liturgical frameworks and the narratives can be inspirational, but I've no need to perpetuate or recycle myths from another land and another era in order for there to be meaning and direction in my own journey. The current state and capacity of scientific endeavour provides unlimited scope for exploration into profound yet measurable experiences available to all.

Evolution occurs. It will continue to occur until we and all of our stories and experiences are stardust once more. Maybe beyond, if panspermia is valid. It is not at the mercy of our subjective understanding. Evolution may be mindless, but if it is I do not think it follows that it is therefore meaningless for our species. We can perceive it and therefore see where our own journey fits within that greater journey of which we are all taking part - the multi-billion year old story of life itself. I'm inspired by that capacity to learn, imagine and hold the knowledge of our ancient ancestry far more than by the many unique but ultimately clumsy interpretations of yore.

There's an elegance to evolution. It needs nothing from us, but it can be an endless source of spiritual and mental nourishment. I realise I am now proselytising, which is, I suppose, more my intention than to offer a defense. Quite sincerely, I don't give a rat's arse whether other people agree with my point of view. I'm a free thinker and wish more people would give it a try. Come to your own conclusions.

 

[AlienView]

There's an elegance to evolution. It needs nothing from us, but it can be an endless source of spiritual and mental nourishment. I realise I am now proselytising, which is, I suppose, more my intention than to offer a defense. Quite sincerely, I don't give a rat's arse whether other people agree with my point of view. I'm a free thinker and wish more people would give it a try. Come to your own conclusions.

I was just listiening to the popular physicist Michio kaku - And someone was asking him about the conflict between science and rligion - And kaku says there is no conflict - Science tries to understand why the heavens work the way they do - And religion tries to get you there. Michio has a way of taking some far out
concepts and making them more interesting to the general public.

He also is what you would call a 'free thinker' in many ways - Of course on the alien issue he is more pragmatic - and states if you are abducted by aliens steal something - Another words until a solid piece of physical evidence can ba shown - there is no scientific proof that aliens exist. I agree.

But to me any philosphy that closes doors on possibilities that may or may not be true - hinders the search,and may in fact hinder the reality of what is real. It has been proven recently in scientific experiments that the mind actually influences and in fact creates reality - Of course this would not produce
any alien or supernatural phenomenon that would stand repeated tests as to validity.

So until preven otherwise 'Anything is possible and nothing is certain'.

To me Evolution is just a modern replacement for Intelligent Design less a creator - In fact, and even though nobody agrees with me on this, Evolution is Intelligent design - In that it tries to give meaning and order to events that happened, are happening, and will continue to happen.

Someone {in may have been Michio Kaku} said Man possesses 'the god gene' - Another words we are wired to believe in a god - or in something - that gives meaning to all that is. Science helps and supersedes religion in many ways - But it fails miserably when trying to give reason behind the order that we perceive.

Max Planck the famous Noble prize winning physicist of the early 20th Century almost leaned to a Theistic viewpoint in many of his philosophical writings:

"“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together.
We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
― Max Planck

What mind? God?, Aliens? - Or does the universe itself posses an intrinsic order that manifest itself in all that we see?

This order would not necessitate the existence of a god in the religious sense of the word,
- And yes, believe it or not, there are a few Atheists who do believe in Intelligent design!

 

[eburacum]

The best evidence that eliminates the likelihood that life on Earth is a genetic experiment is the close alignment between the evolution of species on our planet and the molecular clock.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_clock
It is possible to determine from the changes in the genetic code between two species that they diverged from each other a certain number of million years ago. This molecular timeline is in general agreement with the fossil record, so if there is any artificial interference with the evolution of life on Earth, it occurs at the same rate as it would if the process were completely natural, and cannot be distinguished from natural evolution. An effect which cannot be detected is not really an effect worth considering.

 

[AlienView]

The best evidence that eliminates the likelihood that life on Earth is a genetic experiment is the close alignment between the evolution of species on our planet and the molecular clock.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_clock
It is possible to determine from the changes in the genetic code between two species that they diverged from each other a certain number of million years ago. This molecular timeline is in general agreement with the fossil record, so if there is any artificial interference with the evolution of life on Earth, it occurs at the same rate as it would if the process were completely natural, and cannot be distinguished from natural evolution. An effect which cannot be detected is not really an effect worth considering.

'IF" an experiment was in play, and so designed by a species of mind beyond simple Human understanding,
then what you perceive, including the Molecular Clock, could, and would, be a built in factor in the on going experiment.

Simple science experiments that Man does are usually based upon certain contingencies that are known before the experiment begins.

Again 'IF" Evolution is an experiment - then certain contingencies and orders of time and events, might be expectied. - The net result however, remains to be seen.

 

[eburacum]

This would be an experiment that has lasted more than 4 billion years. I'm perfectly willing to accept that possibility - but we need to be aware that it is an experiment that has occured at the same rate as natural genetic diversification, so it is entirely impossible to tell the difference between an experimental setup and a naturally evolved biosphere.

If the aliens have been waiting around for more than four billion years for the result of their experiment, they would not be able to tell the difference between our biosphere and one which has arisen without interference. Perhaps we are the control.

 

[AlienView]

Perhaps we are the control.

Perhaps - And perhaps it is time for Humans to seize control - Maybe then, and only then, can the experiment be considered to be a success - We have finally created a biological species that can be
rated as intelligent - The experimental design has proven accurate.

More evidence of the experimental design hypothesis can be seen in sexual reproduction and genetic variations so produced.

I ask you as an intelligent Human to give me the odds, and even accepting that life could occur spontaneously given the right circumstances - what still would be the odds that a sexual/genetic experiment
would start spontaneously and lead to an immense amount ot diversification of life?

And you might say 'nature' experiments - Buy why? and for what purpose, what goal?
Do you really believe that nature has a will of its own?

You see something, someone, some group or entity is exerting an external will
- the theists call it God - But I'm a skeptic so I say Aliens.

 

[kamalktk]

We have finally created a biological species that can be
rated as intelligent -

The aliens may not see us as intelligent just like we dont see ants as intelligent. And intelligence may not be the desired outcome of their hypothetical experiment in any case, they could be about ready to write Earth off because the tigers were the experiment and we're just some accidental contamination of the petri dish that is wiping the tigers out, we dont have any way of knowing.

 

[GNC]

This would be an experiment that has lasted more than 4 billion years. I'm perfectly willing to accept that possibility - but we need to be aware that it is an experiment that has occured at the same rate as natural genetic diversification, so it is entirely impossible to tell the difference between an experimental setup and a naturally evolved biosphere.

If the aliens have been waiting around for more than four billion years for the result of their experiment, they would not be able to tell the difference between our biosphere and one which has arisen without interference. Perhaps we are the control.

If this is a 4 billion year experiment, I suspect the aliens who started it died or lost interest nearly 4 billion years ago. There's a reason reality TV shows only last a few weeks.

 

[AlienView]

You see 'IF' it is an experiment - We need to see evidence of an experiment taking place and evidence that the experiment was 'set-in-play' at some point in time.

The evidence of an experiment taking place is obvious, nature continually experiments through diversification of life forms and the survival of some life forms and the extinction of others - There is no reason for this
- no reason for life itself - Why would an inorganic universe need biological life? Unless you want to believe in a living universe - which may be possible but I will leave this for another post.

So we see this experimental biology going on continuously - WHY?
Accident? - The mythical creator of theists would make more sense than that - But like I say I'm a skeptic
so I have to see some other mind force at play.

But proving this mind force exists independently of deductive or inductive logic is difficult - Put simple it is the most logical conclusion available - not proof.

But, like I said, we would also have to show 'who, where, why and when' - not easily done.
- Especially when you consider you are part of the experiment!


"“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”
― Max Planck, Where is Science Going?

"
Modern Physics impresses us particularly with the truth of the old doctrine which teaches that there are realities existing apart from our sense-perceptions, and that there are problems and conflicts where these realities are of greater value for us than the richest treasures of the world of experience."
— Max Planck