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There has been hair found and analysed - the DNA comes back as 'unknown species'

There is plenty of excellent evidence of the existence of these creatures (even excluding the patterson film), but until one is found alive or dead, the scientific world simply won't recognise it as a species.

If you are interested in the scientific proof, buy a copy of 'Sasquatch/Bigfoot: Evidence' by Dr. Grover S Krantz - the best book on the subject - he goes into amazing detail over the footprints, biomechanics and the patterson film.
 
Patterson Bigfoot Footage...

Okay, I know that for some stupid reason its copyrighted and not visible anywhere except on certain videos.
But, come on, theres gotta be a copy of it SOMEWHERE on the internet.
Anyone know of a copy? Or have a copy? I know its not something everyone has in their Kazaa shared directory, but I'm SURE its out there.
Please?
 
Wasn't the film supposed to have been faked by a famous special-effects chappie who died last winter?
There was a respectful obituary in the UK Guardian which discussed at length this aspect of his career.
 
Had a quick look, but the best index of links and articles I've come across is this one.

If you do turn it up (and TBH I think you're right, it has to be there somewhere) do let us know...

Stu
 
Thanks to August Verango for turning up the link for the thread which discussed possible hoaxers of this film.

That thread has now been merged with this one (and some now redundant posts deleted).

(The possible hoaxer discussion started on 3/6/02 and ran to 15/8/02.)
 
A number of theories abound regarding Bigfoot, and I tend to believe in such a creature because its existence (alleged) is not just confined to one area like the zooform phenomena creatures such as Mothman, Jersey Devil etc. Bigfoot IS sighted all over the world to suggest that something is out there, and there are a number of different species of this type of creature, from three-toed shaggy monsters to four-feet high red-haired creatures, to the taller more stereotypical specimens. I don't go with the theory that, "If I can't find it, it ain't there", because we deal with many elsuive creatures and mankind has barely scratched the surfaces of a number of forests, let alone lakes and oceans. Bigfoot is not an ethereal creature in my opinion or a hoax, and I believe that evidence has been gathered an analysed but only people like Grover Krantz had the time for it. Bear carcass' are hardly found with frequency so for anyone to find a Bigfoot is remote, and if anyone did shoot such a thing, how many would run to the press and then have their find taken from them ? Would such a find be revealed to the world ?
The X CREATURES programme tried to show how easy it was to fake the Patterson film and got nowhere near it, and whilst something maybe possible to fake, doing it is another thing.
 
i've always liked the forced shaking effect of the patterson film...i think it's a really nice Blair Witchian touch, i.e. i don't believe it's real(among other reasons)

but bless the hoaxer's hearts. i think they've created an artform all their own. i love feaux-realistic stuff.
 
escargot said:
Wasn't the film supposed to have been faked by a famous special-effects chappie who died last winter?
There was a respectful obituary in the UK Guardian which discussed at length this aspect of his career.

Holywood Director John Landis claimed that the Planet of The Apes special effects man John Chambers made the suit, but when interviewed by researcher Bobbie Short, Chambers denied it categorically, telling Short to look at what he could do with a big Hollywood budget in 1967 (Planet of the Apes wraped up shooting just weeks before the PGF was filmed).

'I was good' Chambers said, 'but not that good'.

I have an article on the Patterson/Gimlin film here if you are interested. European Bigfoot Research Project
 
1958 Bigfoot hoaxer dies

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134589898_raywallaceobit05m.html

Lovable trickster created a monster with Bigfoot hoax

By Bob Young
Seattle Times staff reporter

Bigfoot is dead. Really.

"Ray L. Wallace was Bigfoot. The reality is, Bigfoot just died," said Michael Wallace about his father, who died of heart failure Nov. 26 in a Centralia nursing facility. He was 84.

The truth can finally be told, according to Mr. Wallace's family members. He orchestrated the prank that created Bigfoot in 1958.

Some experts suspected Mr. Wallace had planted the footprints that launched the term "Bigfoot." But Mr. Wallace and his family had never publicly admitted the 1958 deed until now.

"The fact is there was no Bigfoot in popular consciousness before 1958. America got its own monster, its own Abominable Snowman thanks to Ray Wallace," said Mark Chorvinsky, editor of Strange magazine and one of the leading proponents of the theory that Mr. Wallace fathered Bigfoot.

Pranks and hoaxes were just part of Mr. Wallace's nature.

"He'd been a kid all his life. He did it just for the joke and then he was afraid to tell anybody because they'd be so mad at him," said nephew Dale Lee Wallace, who said he has the alder-wood carvings of the giant humanoid feet that gave life to a worldwide phenomenon.

It was in August 1958 in Humboldt County, Calif., that Jerry Crew, a bulldozer operator for Wallace Construction, saw prints of huge naked feet circling and walking away from his rig.

The Humboldt Times in Eureka, Calif., ran a front-page story on the prints and coined the term "Bigfoot."

According to family members, Mr. Wallace smirked. He had asked a friend to carve the 16-inch-long feet. Then he and his brother Wilbur had slipped them on and created the footprints as a prank, family members said.

His joke soon swept the country, which was fascinated by rumors of Himalayan Abominable Snowmen in the 1950s, Chorvinsky said.

"The Abominable Snowman was appropriated by Ray Wallace. It got into the press, took on a life of its own and next thing you know there's a Bigfoot, one of the most popular monsters in the world," he said.

Mr. Wallace continued to milk the prank for years. He offered to sell a Bigfoot to Texas millionaire Tom Slick and then backed out when Slick made a serious bid. Mr. Wallace later put out a press release saying he wanted to buy a baby Bigfoot for $1 million, said Loren Coleman, who has written two books about Bigfoot. Mr. Wallace also cut a record of supposed Bigfoot sounds and printed posters of a Bigfoot sitting peaceably with other animals, said Chorvinsky, who received several hundred pages of correspondence from Mr. Wallace.

But Mr. Wallace's chief contributions to bigfootery were films and photos he supposedly captured of the creature in the wild.

There were depictions of Bigfeet eating elk and frogs, of a Bigfoot sitting on a log and of a Bigfoot munching on cereal.

"Ray's contribution was study into the actual behavior of Bigfoot, what it eats, how it acts," said Ray Crowe, director of the International Bigfoot Society in Hillsboro, Ore.

Chorvinsky believes the Wallace family's admission creates profound doubts about leading evidence of Bigfoot's existence: the so-called Patterson film, the grainy celluloid images of an erect apelike creature striding away from the movie camera of rodeo rider Roger Patterson in 1967. Mr. Wallace said he told Patterson where to go — near Bluff Creek, Calif. — to spot a Bigfoot, Chorvinsky said.

"Ray told me that the Patterson film was a hoax, and he knew who was in the suit," Chorvinsky said.

Michael Wallace said his father called the Patterson film "a fake" and said he had nothing to do with it. But he said his mother admitted she had been photographed in a Bigfoot suit. "He had several people he used in his movies," Michael Wallace said.

Mr. Wallace never received proper credit in the Bigfoot community, Chorvinsky said. "He got it off the ground, and he kept getting glossed over. He's been consistently marginalized or ignored by authors," Chorvinsky said.

Why? "Because it hurts the case for Bigfoot if you talk too much about Ray Wallace," he replied.

The Wallace family's revelation does not faze some Bigfoot experts, and the debate about Bigfoot's existence rages on.

"These rumors have been circulating for some time," said Jeff Meldrum, an associate professor of anatomy and anthropology at Idaho State University.

Meldrum said he has casts of 40 to 50 footprints that he concludes, from their anatomical features, come from authentic unknown primates.

"To suggest all these are explained by simple carved feet strapped to boots just doesn't wash," he said. Even if the Wallace family's claims are true, Meldrum added, there are historical accounts of Bigfootlike creatures going back to the 1800s. "How do you account for that?"

It's easy, replied Chorvinsky; the historical accounts were mistakes, myths or hoaxes. "I would like to see the evidence beyond the anecdotal. Jeff Meldrum's job is show us the beef, something beyond old newspaper articles."

As for Meldrum's claim about authentic footprints, Chorvinsky said: "Jeff Meldrum is not an expert in creating hoaxes. I was a professional magician and special-effects film director; anything can be faked."

Michael Wallace said family members knew about his father's hoax but never let on.

"The family just sat back and grinned," he said. "He didn't mean to hurt anyone."

To them, it was just another one of Mr. Wallace's jokes. Like the time he dropped a powerful firecracker down the chimney of a bunkhouse while loggers played cards inside. Or the time he convinced his crew that wild cats with bushy tails were living in forest treetops.

To his family, Bigfoot was a small part of Mr. Wallace.

A rugged rogue with a big laugh and generous heart, Mr. Wallace was born in Clarksdale, Mo., and came West as a boy. He spent much of his adult life taming the country. He built part of Highway 1 in coastal California, he cut trees when they were so big that trucks carried one-log loads, and he opened a free petting zoo near Chehalis.

In 1942, he married Elna Sorensen and moved around the Pacific Northwest as his company built logging roads and cut timber. His four adopted sons spent much of their childhood in logging camps.

"Sometimes we lived in the middle of nowhere. You couldn't ask for a better life as a kid," said Michael, his oldest son, now a home builder in Castle Rock.

In 1961, he settled down in Toledo, Lewis County. Shortly after, he opened a free zoo, the Wild Animal Farm, off Interstate 5. It stayed open for about 13 years. His wife ran an adjacent hamburger stand to help support the zoo. "I didn't have normal pets," said Michael Wallace. "I had cougars, raccoons, deer and bear cubs."

Mr. Wallace would sometimes give free hamburgers and milkshakes to families that looked poor, his son said.

"He loved children and wanted to adopt every kid he saw. He was a good provider. If he wasn't playing a practical joke, he was always working."

Nephew Dale Lee Wallace added: "He always told us to believe in the good Lord and stay married. He was always preaching things like that."

His son is convinced Mr. Wallace is still relishing his biggest practical joke. "I know he's just cracking up," said Michael Wallace.

Mr. Wallace was preceded in death by son Gary, who died in a logging accident. Besides his wife and son Michael, Mr. Wallace is survived by sons, Larry, of Winlock, and Richard, of Toledo; 10 grandchildren, six great-grandchildren and numerous nieces and nephews.

Remembrances may be donated to Children's Hospital & Regional Medical Center in Seattle.
 
RIP


by the way, is this the same centralia that is sitting on a burning coal seam?
 
WOW!

Amazing story! It is strange that nothing "really" new (except that giant plaster cast of bigfoot on its side , reaching for food) has come about. The Florida skunk ape photos are still "up in the air" of course, its a big "drag" for current researchers of bigfoot. Its made an impact thats for sure , that story.
 
Bump! 'Hoaxer dies' story added to main Bigfoot thread.
 
Even if you take Wallace's claim of hoaxing to be true, all it proves is that one guy was a hoaxer. It's almost like the Nessie "surgen's photograph" - it's fakery only proved that somebody added hoax materials to what was an already reported on phenomenon; Nessie interests and sightings haven't went down because of revelations about the fakery of the photo.

Also, the Patterson film stands on it's own - I'd love to see somebody using only the make-up skills from the time make a suit that convincing. I don't buy the Chambers story at all - anybody whose seen Lost In Space would realize that for the Patterson film to be fake, they woul need all the skills of modern make-up artists to pull it off.
 
I see NBC News has already weighed in.They did a story on the great hoaxster as a voice over while running a clip of the Patterson-Gimlin film,thereby insinuating that it must also be a hoax.I have my doubts about the film myself,but I'm still open to the possibility that it might be real.

I love it when news media twits make light of things they know little or nothing about.
 
Last night on "Coast to Coast"

Radio show , they had people call in with "I swear to god stories of ,I saw bigfoot stories" some were really cool of course I cant list them here but I can't believe (yes I can I guess) that all the callers were making up their "stories". If so. some should be screen writers.:)
 
Exactly! No matter how prolific Wallace may have been, the sheer scope and range of reports and footprints, not to mention the timescale, tends to mitigate him being responsible for the entire mythology.

This is being treated as "case closed" by far too many otherwise sensible people: as all Forteans know, there's very rarely such a thing...
 
This possible UL has gone around before but wasn't there a suspicion that the Patterson film was connected to the planet of the apes film. The apes film director and make-up crew did extensive testing to see how their upright ape suits would look. I know that the Patterson bigfoot doesn’t have the same look as the apes in the movie but it could have been an earlier try, but was rejected for looking too ape-like, since the apes in the film were portrayed as intelligent and not beastly. The film came out the a year or so after the Patterson film. And there were alot of horses in the apes film, Patterson is on a horse and just happens to have a camera. The director of the Apes film was also associated with a proven Bigfoot hoax.


The bulge in the suit that Ruff refers to could have been the movement of water bags fitted into the suit to simulate the natural movement of flesh.

Some more heresay

http://www.strangemag.com/landischambers.html

http://www.noveltynet.org/content/paranormal/www.parascope.com/en/cryptozoo/missingLinks02_2.htm

and

http://www.strangemag.com/pattersonfilm30th.html
 
The Jeff Rense Program

03-01-04

Kal Korff/Bob Kiviat - Proof Patterson Film A Fraud?

http://www.soundwaves2000.com/rense/archives.html

Is that really his hair? If so it is surely a whole field of Fortean inquiry in itself.

And more:

IS THIS HULK THE SON OF BIGFOOT?


09:30 - 02 March 2004

He's been the bogeyman for millions of American children for centuries - but now the elusive Bigfoot's days of freedom could be numbered, it was claimed last night. The world's leading expert on the search for the fabled creature now plans the biggest and most hi-tech search, which could lead the great hairy beast to be the unwitting star of its own reality TV channel.

Bigfoot ranks alongside the Yeti and the Loch Ness Monster as one of the world's great mysteries. For centuries, first Native American and then European settlers told tales of a beast that lived in the vast forests of the north-western US.

But the only evidence for the creature has been a handful of grainy films and photographs, a few hairs and some massive footprints, plus thousands of eyewitness reports of terrifying encounters.

Now a man who has devoted his life to proving the existence of Bigfoot is organising a full-scale expedition to solve the mystery once and for all - and it will be shown on national TV.

Thomas Biscardi is negotiating with American TV networks to sponsor and follow his expedition.

He is concentrating on an area in northern California around Mount Shasta, where he claims he stumbled across a family of Bigfoots in 2001.

Everything in Biscardi's search is to be sponsored by corporate America, from the camping kit to the communications devices. He hopes to raise more than a million dollars to help fund the search.

Biscardi will use helicopters, global positioning satellites, nightsight goggles and infra-red tracking devices.

And with the possibility of their product being associated with a world-changing event, companies are understood to be falling over each other to get involved. Biscardi has already had 5,000 people volunteer to take part in the search.

Biscardi claims there are 500 to 1,200 Bigfoots in North America, and is mystified as to why the creature has remained so elusive.

"Back in 1973 I asked myself how it is they can put a man on the moon but they can't find Bigfoot.

"Everything that will be necessary for this expedition to become a success will be open to corporate sponsorship and participation.

"That includes goods and services from outdoor gear and food and water suppliers, to hi-tech communications devices, global positioning equipment, computer equipment and everything else we will take along, from hygiene and health products to bug spray, deodorant and legal, insurance and medical services as well as journalistic and scientific participation."

The search team will number about two dozen and concentrate on locations with fresh Bigfoot sightings.

It is the first large-scale search for the creature since the early 1970s, when thousands of bounty hunters responded to a growing number of sightings.

Biscardi's first search for Bigfoot in 1973 was documented in a TV film. His second in 1981 produced the documentary feature film In The Shadow Of Bigfoot - which recorded some ear-splitting shrieks from an unidentified creature, but no creature itself.

The film-maker claims to have had four close encounters with Bigfoot over the years.

Hefty tread began hunt for monster

Native Americans have legends of a huge creature called Sasquatch - shown in cave paintings in northern California.

But the stories remained myths until the increase of logging in the vast forests in north-west US from the 1950s.

The discovery of large footprints around a loggers' camp in 1952 sparked the name Bigfoot.

A film in 1967, which purported to show a Bigfoot female, brought the creature to world attention.

But 30 years later it was revealed to be a fake. That hasn't stopped Bigfoot-mania, though, with sightings on the increase.

http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/dis...ayContent&sourceNode=124113&contentPK=9055927
 
The Reliable Source


By Richard Leiby
Sunday, March 7, 2004; Page D03

Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There

Now it can be told: Bigfoot isn't real!


So says Bob Heironimus, a retired Pepsi bottler from Yakima, Wash., who reveals to the Reliable Source that he donned a gorilla costume and appeared in the famous grainy film clip that helped fuel the Bigfoot craze in 1967 and is studied by Bigfoot, Sasquatch and Yeti investigators to this day.

"It's time people knew it was a hoax," Heironimus told us. "It's time to let this thing go. I've been burdened with this for 36 years, seeing the film clip on TV numerous times. Somebody's making lots of money off this, except for me. But that's not the issue -- the issue is that it's time to finally let people know the truth."

Heironimus, 63, makes his full "confession," as he calls it, in a just-published book by paranormal investigator Greg Long, "The Making of Bigfoot." Long spent four years investigating the 60-second film clip and the people behind it. He traces the shaggy Bigfoot costume to a North Carolina gorilla suit specialist, Philip Morris, who says he sold it for 5 to an amateur documentary maker named Roger Patterson (who died in 1972). The hoax was staged near Bluff Creek in Northern California, according to Heironimus.

"Patterson was the cameraman," Long tells us. "They made a gentleman's agreement that Bob would get in the suit and walk in front of the camera for
The Reliable Source


By Richard Leiby
Sunday, March 7, 2004; Page D03

Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There

Now it can be told: Bigfoot isn't real!


So says Bob Heironimus, a retired Pepsi bottler from Yakima, Wash., who reveals to the Reliable Source that he donned a gorilla costume and appeared in the famous grainy film clip that helped fuel the Bigfoot craze in 1967 and is studied by Bigfoot, Sasquatch and Yeti investigators to this day.

"It's time people knew it was a hoax," Heironimus told us. "It's time to let this thing go. I've been burdened with this for 36 years, seeing the film clip on TV numerous times. Somebody's making lots of money off this, except for me. But that's not the issue -- the issue is that it's time to finally let people know the truth."

Heironimus, 63, makes his full "confession," as he calls it, in a just-published book by paranormal investigator Greg Long, "The Making of Bigfoot." Long spent four years investigating the 60-second film clip and the people behind it. He traces the shaggy Bigfoot costume to a North Carolina gorilla suit specialist, Philip Morris, who says he sold it for $435 to an amateur documentary maker named Roger Patterson (who died in 1972). The hoax was staged near Bluff Creek in Northern California, according to Heironimus.

"Patterson was the cameraman," Long tells us. "They made a gentleman's agreement that Bob would get in the suit and walk in front of the camera for $1,000."

But, Heironimus says, "I was never paid a dime for that, no sir," and adds, "Sure I want to make some money. I feel that after 36 years I should get some of it."

Backers of the Bigfoot legend include primatologist Jane Goodall, who was in Silver Spring last week to tout a new chimpanzee documentary that premieres tomorrow on Discovery Communications' Animal Planet network. Too busy to comment herself, Goodall authorized an aide, Nona Gandelman, to tell us she has read "countless books" about Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, Chinese wild men and other creatures. "She's spoken to people whom she respects who say they have seen one of these hominids," said Gandelman, "and to many other people she respects who have heard strange calls they thought were made by Bigfoot. As a scientist, she has a very open mind about this and has yet to close the door on the possibility."

Bigfoot researcher John Green, a retired Canadian journalist, says the book doesn't disprove the existence of the mysterious beast. "It's all [expletive]," he told us. "There are going to be libel actions flying."

Tom Malone, a lawyer in Minneapolis, called us Friday on behalf of Bob Gimlin, associate of the now-dead Bigfoot filmmaker. "I'm authorized to tell you that nobody wore a gorilla suit or monkey suit and that Mr. Gimlin's position is that it's absolutely false and untrue."

And the mystery lives on . . .
,000."

But, Heironimus says, "I was never paid a dime for that, no sir," and adds, "Sure I want to make some money. I feel that after 36 years I should get some of it."

Backers of the Bigfoot legend include primatologist Jane Goodall, who was in Silver Spring last week to tout a new chimpanzee documentary that premieres tomorrow on Discovery Communications' Animal Planet network. Too busy to comment herself, Goodall authorized an aide, Nona Gandelman, to tell us she has read "countless books" about Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, Chinese wild men and other creatures. "She's spoken to people whom she respects who say they have seen one of these hominids," said Gandelman, "and to many other people she respects who have heard strange calls they thought were made by Bigfoot. As a scientist, she has a very open mind about this and has yet to close the door on the possibility."

Bigfoot researcher John Green, a retired Canadian journalist, says the book doesn't disprove the existence of the mysterious beast. "It's all [expletive]," he told us. "There are going to be libel actions flying."

Tom Malone, a lawyer in Minneapolis, called us Friday on behalf of Bob Gimlin, associate of the now-dead Bigfoot filmmaker. "I'm authorized to tell you that nobody wore a gorilla suit or monkey suit and that Mr. Gimlin's position is that it's absolutely false and untrue."

And the mystery lives on . . .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37009-2004Mar6.html

Indeed.

[edit: And the book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1591021391/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1591021391/ ]

[edit2: LOL - I won't spoil it for you but check out the only reveiw posted so far at amazon.com ;) ]

Emps
 
:D

I would, however like to see the suit, the zipper in the back, and the head of the suit close up, and filmed from different angles. I didn't read thoroughly enough, but did they say this suit still exists? I want to try it on for size.
 
i reckon the paterson film is merely the first recorded example of furry activity.

sickos.
 
Actually it was an out take for an early version of
"There's Something about Miriam".
 
Yes, the furries scare me too.

(Having said that, in one way i am quite in agreement with them, that a `real` perversion should be bizzare and only of interest to a few specialists.)

I sat up and listened to the 2 hours Rense programme, it was very interesting, I have two points;

How can a $435 gorrila suit fool the experts, even if altered by Patterson? (no evidence he was a SFX person, and I bet one of those would have to build a suit at great expense, they couldnt convert an existing one.)

If this guy was owed money, why didnt he squeal ages ago? (I know I would have and I am a firm believer in loyalty to friends.)

They brought up the too small height of this bigfoot.

I for one am in favour of the smaller creature, since it ties in so closley with the tall homo erectus. (certainly sightings in other parts of the world are of a smaller creature) but this doesnt match the many footprints which are of a real giant indeed!

Perhaps bigfoot is a sexualy diamorphic creature? (humans and chimps arent, gorrilas and austalopithicines definatley are!)
 
Also have a look around the archives at http://www.portalofevil.com - most of my exposure to furrism comes from there (so it is the weird extreme end where practices get very odd). Good CSI on it recently too ;)

Pos. worth a new thread if you are interested in pursuing this but as it gets into some very odd and unpleasant places it might also be best to draw a line under it here ;)

Emps
 
stu neville said:
That having been said, the first thing I ever saw about Bigfoot was "The World About Us" on BBC2 when I was about six (so about thirty odd years ago): I saw a repeat some years later and it was utterly non-biased one way or another. And that programme kick started my entire interest in Cryptozoology, so don't knock the Beeb too hard.

Stu

SNAP,

Watched a programme a year or two ago, featured alledged sounds of bigfoot, very little puts the wind up me, but these sounds did, hairs on back of neck standing up now just thinking about it!.
 
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