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The Roswell Incident [1947]

The uranium on board U-234 was unenriched uranium, and was useless for making an atomic bomb in that state. Don't believe idiots like Cook and Wikowski.

It was probably appropriated by Project Manhattan, but probably too late to be included in either of the WWII bombs. It may have been used in later bombs, though.
I wonder, maybe he had thought better of what he'd been trying to develop, and secretly distorted all his efforts???
 
ROSWELL: THE COMPLETE ASSOCIATED PRESS TIMELINE!

Courtesy of...

'The Daily Illini' (Urbana, Illinois) 9 July, 1947

_AP Wires Burn With 'Captured Disk' Story_

Screenshot_20240702-061515.jpg


The entire AP timeline is documented and if someone can possibly please convert the time zone differential, we might, amazingly, have a reasonably accurate framework, overall.

Therefore... from time:

1. Someone in the War Department (just a guess!) first becomes aware that the rubber, sticks and foil have been found and then, for whatever reason, decides this has to be replaced by simulated material...

Until...

2. Ramey can show that duplicitous debris, laid out in his office, to the press and permit photographs...

The following seems to be the gist of it?:

(Begin) One minute later, at 5:11, the third add to the bulletin announced, "The war department in Washington had nothing to say immediately about the reported find".

At 5:53, the AP story began to be moved. Another bulletin was sent with a Washington dateline. It was a story about a statement by Brig Gen Roger Ramey, saying the "disk" had been sent to Wright field, Ohio.

At 6:59, there was more from New Mexico, and at 7:03, another First Lead story, dated Washington.

The Washington story gave the first real hint that all wasn't solved. There were possibilities, it stated, that the object was only a meteorological device.

A new bulletin came through at 7:15, saying that General Ramey would speak over the National Broadcasting company network.

The "95" was broken at 7:29 for another bulletin.

It said, "Fort Worth-Roswell's celebrated flying disk' was rudely stripped of its glamor by a Fort Worth army airfield weather officer who late today identified the object as a weather balloon."

The bulletin was sent at 7:30, just three hours and four minutes after the story had first broken and two hours and 20 minutes after the Associated Press reporters had begun investigations. (End of extract)

So... if hypothetical cover-up begins around 5:11 and weather balloon confirmation comes at approximately 7:30... then just over 2 hours to source and deliver to Ramey's office, the complete picture of a debris recovery, which mimics the real thing?
 
Some rare sanity amidst all the mania:

"David Rudiak has a bachelor's in physics and a doctor of optometry from the University of California, Berkeley plus graduate training in biophysics and neurophysiology. He has done scientific research and published papers on brain wave recording to visual stimuli and stimulation of the brain with magnetic stimulators.

In Ufology, his main area of expertise is the alleged Roswell saucer crash of 1947, which he has been studying since1994. He is perhaps best known for his work on reading the telex photographed in Gen. Roger Ramey's hand as Ramey tried to debunk the Roswell crash as a weather balloon. Ramey's memo mentions "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK" and dealing with something "IN THE ‘DISC’" (perhaps “CADAVERS”), words and phrases which he and others consider to be smoking gun proof that a saucer crash really happened and bodies were recovered.

He has been a speaker at the Aztec UFO conference in 2005, discussing the Ramey memo, the Ozark UFO conference in 2003 on the memo and in 2007 discussing his analysis of the 1994 Nellis military UFO video, the 2009 and 2012 Roswell UFO conferences again discussing the memo and how the military ran a debunkery campaign in 1947 against Roswell and the flying saucer wave. He has been interviewed for various UFO/Roswell TV documentaries.

He has also done extensive research on the Socorro/Lonnie Zamora UFO sighting of 1964, proving, e.g., that it couldn’t have been any sort of balloon because historical wind data make it impossible. He has also extensively researched the 1950 McMinville, Oregon/Paul Trent photos, disproving claims that it was a “truck mirror” suspended from overhead power lines. In contrast, his analysis of another famous UFO photo case, Rex Heflin/Santa Ana, CA from 1965, showed that shadow and camera position evidence strongly pointed to a hoax. (unpublished)"


https://rumble.com/v51mygf-a-differ...randle-interviews-david-rudiak-decoding-.html
 
In Ufology, his main area of expertise is the alleged Roswell saucer crash of 1947, which he has been studying since1994. He is perhaps best known for his work on reading the telex photographed in Gen. Roger Ramey's hand as Ramey tried to debunk the Roswell crash as a weather balloon. Ramey's memo mentions "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK" and dealing with something "IN THE ‘DISC’" (perhaps “CADAVERS”), words and phrases which he and others consider to be smoking gun proof that a saucer crash really happened and bodies were recovered.

This reading of the telex always seemed like wishful thinking to me. The phrase "victims of the wreck that you forwarded" doesn't even sound right in itself and to me it looks more like "finding of the [...] that you forwarded", with the blank being "materials" or something along those lines.
 
This reading of the telex always seemed like wishful thinking to me. The phrase "victims of the wreck that you forwarded" doesn't even sound right in itself and to me it looks more like "finding of the [...] that you forwarded", with the blank being "materials" or something along those lines.
I would be inclined to agree, but a least he is focusing on the known facts instead of pretending to a tabloid that his grandfather summonsed him for a deathbed confession and told him he had been at Roswell in 1947 and had communicated telepathically with the spirit of the deceased aliens etc etc can I be paid in cash, please?
 
As Comfortably Numb's timeline demonstrates, there was not enough time to 'run a debunkery campaign against Roswell'.

The debris was genuine, not switched, and Marcel always admitted that. The person who identified the debris as a weather balloon was a lowly weather officer, Irving Newton, not Ramey or anyone above him, and after that the 'crash' didn't need debunking any more. Because it was bunk.
 
The whole 'debris switch' thing results from creative interpretation of a phrase used by Marcel that the debris in Ramey's office wasn't the same as the debris he had found. The context of the comment suggests that Marcel meant merely that they were displaying the "less interesting" debris rather than that they had actually switched it with some weather balloon components.
 
Some rare sanity amidst all the mania:

"David Rudiak....
DR and sanity... is that not an oxymoron?

I know DR from way back and a fanatical proponent of everything Roswell, et al, related.

So far as Socorro... there is much unpublished from my research...

Might just be appearing in a book, this year.

Meantime, here's a clue:

""I saw two figures in what appeared to be white coveralls. like mechanics wear."

"...an egg- shaped UFO about the size of a large automobile land with a roar and a burst of blue flame".

"Moving back and forth between a big machine spouting jets of blue fire and a heap of white material was a figure in white coveralls".

All within a week of each other, in 1964.

Which one is the documented, hot-air balloon incident...
 
The whole 'debris switch' thing results from creative interpretation of a phrase used by Marcel that the debris in Ramey's office wasn't the same as the debris he had found. The context of the comment suggests that Marcel meant merely that they were displaying the "less interesting" debris rather than that they had actually switched it with some weather balloon components.
The genesis of our purported 'debris switch' can be identified.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/W1fPcp6C2E9pxZAS/
 
From Comfortably Numb's link'
In 'Flying Saucers and Science' (2008), by Stanton Friedman, he discusses the interviews with Major Jesse Marcel and does not cite any evidence that Marcel ever spoke about the genuine debris being substituted for Marcel's photographs.
Nonetheless, Friedman proclaims:
"Ramey's boss in D.C., General Clements McMullen, instructing Ramey to send the wreckage to D.C. with one of his couriers, to get the press off their backs in any way possible, and never to talk about it again. When Marcel arrived, General Ramey instructed him not to say anything. Pictures were taken with phony wreckage, and the cover story went out from Ft. Worth-not Roswell-within hours".
It all originates from Friedman alone.
There are plenty of examples of Friedman 'maintaining the mystery' when it was no longer appropriate. It is very difficult to assume he was acting in good faith.
 
Look at Major Marcel’s face in his famous newspaper picture.

I interpret his look as “ what the crap is this stuff “.
Likewise, I once thought so and recall posting a similar view re Marcel's expression!

Alas... now I would have to interpret...

'A weather balloon?.... No way.... this stuff is not from our planet...' .
 
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What about microbiological evidence? If (big if) the Roswell craft was from another world then a crach would surely circumvent any precautions made by the occupants not to contaminate or be contaminated by any micro organisms.

There has never been any suggestion that such contamination took place, so either the occupants if any, were part of our biosphere or whatever they carried with them could not survive here. But, shouldn't there be traces of "alien" microbial lifeforms all around the site?

If Marcel and Co were handling the stuff, that should pose a huge risk.
 
You have a good point about extraterrestrial virus and bacteria.

Viruses only have a core of nucleic acid and a protein coat, but they causes complete havoc in the world.

So, are viruses extraterrestrial ?

Viruses don’t breathe, so viruses are not anything that is life.

When I was young, people were scared to death about when AIDS first appeared and I heard people say that the astronauts brought AIDS back from the moon and they were responsible.
 
I cannot now remember where I saw it, but wasn't there a story from someone that Marcel had kept some of the debris and concealed them (in a water tank? Under the floor?) in his house?

The grandson's "I know where a beam is but I can't get to it" story sounds suspiciously like this.
 
Over the years it is forgotten that the Army themselves started this whole mess.

The Army was very eager to tell the world that they had captured an alien ship.

It’s all an Army screw up that will never go away.
 
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I cannot now remember where I saw it, but wasn't there a story from someone that Marcel had kept some of the debris and concealed them (in a water tank? Under the floor?) in his house?

The grandson's "I know where a beam is but I can't get to it" story sounds suspiciously like this.

I eventually remembered that the source of this story was, surprisingly enough, Pascagoula witness Calvin Parker, who apparently met Marcel in the 1980s.
 
Did anyone else go to the Fortean exhibition in Croydon at the Clocktower years ago? I seem to remember some foil supposedly from the Roswell incident being on display there. Can anyone corroborate that for me? I've just found a reference to the exhibition - it was 1995.

I'm wondering if the foil was just a reconstruction of what was said to be found or if it was the actual sample - I suspect the former.....
 
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Believe or not something big did happened near Roswell.
Nevertheless.

I've found Edward J. Ruppelt the only credible source of info on the flap that Roswell popped out of. He was employed by the US air command to investigate the reports of aerial phenomenon. I'm sure you've heard of Projects Grudge and Blue Book. His findings were that though there are apparent flying objects behaving unusually in earth's atmosphere, there is no evidence that they are of interplanetary origin.

The audiobook is about 14 hours long. He does address the event at Roswell 1947, but it didn't really stand out from the many many other reports occurring throughout that period. For all the reasons Roswell has become the legend it is today, there's no empirical evidence of alien visitation from that or any other reported ufo event.

Roswell today is more of a socio-psychological phenomenon than a historical event. Some might say it's developed over time into the realm of myth, which, arguably, can be more impactful than historical fact. It's not a religion as there's no figurehead unifying the apostates, but it takes some of the forms of religious belief. For one thing, the believers love to demonise those who challenge their faith, be they formal authorities like military and government leaders or interested bystanders like me. It's nothing personal, guys. I apply critical thinking and lean on hard proof.

 
True !

Roswell quickly faded in oblivion.

Then around 1980 a book came out called The Roswell Incident which sparked interest.
 
Nevertheless.

I've found Edward J. Ruppelt the only credible source of info on the flap that Roswell popped out of. He was employed by the US air command to investigate the reports of aerial phenomenon. I'm sure you've heard of Projects Grudge and Blue Book. His findings were that though there are apparent flying objects behaving unusually in earth's atmosphere, there is no evidence that they are of interplanetary origin.

The audiobook is about 14 hours long. He does address the event at Roswell 1947, but it didn't really stand out from the many many other reports occurring throughout that period. For all the reasons Roswell has become the legend it is today, there's no empirical evidence of alien visitation from that or any other reported ufo event.

Roswell today is more of a socio-psychological phenomenon than a historical event. Some might say it's developed over time into the realm of myth, which, arguably, can be more impactful than historical fact. It's not a religion as there's no figurehead unifying the apostates, but it takes some of the forms of religious belief. For one thing, the believers love to demonise those who challenge their faith, be they formal authorities like military and government leaders or interested bystanders like me. It's nothing personal, guys. I apply critical thinking and lean on hard proof.

I think you are spot on. For decades I have argued that what happened at Roswell was nothing to do with alien craft and that it was basically a clever cover-up of an advanced project. In that period the US had acquired not only the top Nazi expert on advanced projects, Hans Kammler, but also several prototypes including a disc shaped craft. If you check out the books of Henry Stevens (Hitler's suppressed and still-secret Weapons, Science and Technology is a good intro), Nick Cook (The Hunt for Zero Point), Igor Witkowski (The Truth about the Wunderwaffe), and Lowery et al (The HIdden Nazi), it all points towards this scenario: Sometime a year before the end of the war, Kammler started making contact with US agents in Spain, offering them all the secret weapons and the documentation thereof, and this included a German sub which was taking highly enriched uranium to Japan for their atomic project in occupied Korea. He delivered, was granted immunity and a new name (no doubt -- nobody knows what), plus, Cook thinks, he took over the role of overseeing the security of all US advanced projects. This would explain the clever cover up at Roswell but also at other black project disasters. I am in no doubt that UFOs, UAPs, whatever you call them, do exist, but the fact that many advanced project disasters could be behind not only Roswell but Rendlesham
Kecksburg and others, makes it very difficult to distinguish the real from the false.
 
According to the 1980 book The Roswell Incident, the supposedly super intelligent aliens in their craft made a deadly mistake.

As the aliens were looking for nuclear testing sites, they flew into a thunderstorm and a fatal lightening bolt destroyed them.

Russian female fighter pilot Marina Popovich was famous in Russia for her UFO encounters which provides evidence for Roswell.

Marina defended Russian military base Kapustin Yar from an UFO attack and became a National hero.
 
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Russian female fighter pilot Marina Popovich was famous in Russia for her UFO encounters which provides evidence for Roswell.

Marina defended Russian military base Kapustin Yar from an UFO attack and became a National hero.
Jayz. Which nation?
 
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