• Forums Software Updates

    The forums will be undergoing updates this weekend: Saturday 7th - Sunday 8th June 2025.
    Little to no downtime is expected.

The SCOLE Experiment

Anas' point reminds me of a documentary I saw way back about the Cold War remote viewing programmes - yep, remote viewing worked, but it was unreliable. Better depend upon something that will (usually) work when you press the button...

As I said, psi seems to answer need, but to varying degrees - and as Anas rightly says, often & tragicly it is not dependable.

Does this argue for the non-existence of psi? Nope. Only for it's inadequacy as a sole survival strategy. Maybe for it's status as a kind of Cosmic Joke - we can transcend the limitations of the flesh, but not necessarily when we want it - only when the subconscious prompts.

Edward's point about the CCs being a little too hieratic - yep, that is exactly the line taken by contempory critics. Why play sophisticated games? One answer is the fact they are sophisticated was intended to be evidential - as mentioned, the CCs are not typical in that they do not answer anybody's emotional needs. Also, bear in mind that we are dealing with late Victorian Oxbridge chaps - they may have taken the course they did partly to pitch over the heads of the recipients, but also because it just came naturally to them. Certainly, from what little I know of Myers, it would seem typical - he was like that in life.

Myself, I admire the Byzantine ingenuity of it all. But I can appreciate why many dismiss it as a precious stunt.

Seriously, if you have the chance, check out material relating to Central/South American mediumship, as it definitely restores the balance. Guy Lyon Playfair's 'The Flying Cow' is a good starting point (and a great title!).
 
Expecting levitation and teleportation is kind of setting your sights a bit high isn't it? Especially for such a spontaneous and fleeting phenomenon.

Want proof? There is plenty, but it is mostly of a subjective nature. For instance, the Rachmaninoff recording. It was meant for Mr. Keen's benefit, since the song that had been recorded (with no microphone) was of a very personal nature to him. Something which noone there could have known according to him.

If this is fraud then this would have required a great deal of probing into Mr. Keen's life beforehand. An elaborate hoax?

To him it was proof.

The conversation on celestial mechanics was proof, but of a subjective nature as it was directed toward a single individual.

At what point do we admit that the case for fraud is as hard to accept as what was being claimed?

At the very least this suggests telepathy.

Isn't that the proof you are really looking for? I think that in order to truly obtain this proof, you first need to open your mind to the posibilities and then make the effort to explore those possibilities in detail. Effort is key here since it far easier to simply ignore evidence and rely on others to explore these phenomenon and report back their findings.
 
Alexius said:
Seriously, if you have the chance, check out material relating to Central/South American mediumship, as it definitely restores the balance. Guy Lyon Playfair's 'The Flying Cow' is a good starting point (and a great title!).
Click to expand...

Ah Spritism.

I'm betting that Spritism is a little closer to the truth than Spiritualism.
 
Psychical research provides rational grounds for a belief in psi and by extension survival. Proof, if you will, in asmuch as it demonstrates that such things are plausible. Explanation? Well, that is when the philosophers step in (as Braude of course has).

Survival ought to be the hottest subject going (it even has a fine sounding name - eschatology). However, it ain't. Most people seem embarrassed by it.

But, the data is there, and it continues to accumulate. 38 quid makes you an associate member of the SPR & voila, you're into their online archive. It is all laid out - just a question of overcoming inertia & prejudice to discover it for yourself.

Be your own judge. Don't abdicate that privelege to anyone.

I agree with Mindtrap that non-European mediumship carries less baggage - viewed against ancestural worship globally, is Spiritualism really that odd? Actually it is, but you get my point ;)
 
MindTrap said:
Expecting levitation and teleportation is kind of setting your sights a bit high isn't it? Especially for such a spontaneous and fleeting phenomenon.
Click to expand...
But that is all supposed to be part of psi - or at least it used to be. Funny how there are far less cases of levitation and teleportation (not to mention apports) reported nowadays.

Isn't that the proof you are really looking for? I think that in order to truly obtain this proof, you first need to open your mind to the posibilities and then make the effort to explore those possibilities in detail. Effort is key here since it far easier to simply ignore evidence and rely on others to explore these phenomenon and report back their findings.
Click to expand...

Ah... so, I don't get messages from the great beyond because (a) I don't make the effort and (b) I have a closed mind. Funny, those strategies don't seem to work when the loan company wants to talk to me!
My whole point is that PSI, as reported, does NOT work in the real world, the world that exists beyond the closed curtain and the darkened room. Only trained mediums can do it? That's like saying that only trained atheletes can run. And anyway, haven't you just described levitation and teleportation as a "spontaneous phenomenon", which implies that it can happen anywhere, at any time, to anyone?
What this lack of real-world PSI suggests to me that the often puzzling phenomena associated with PSI are less to do with talents and abilities and much more to do with expectations and belief. It manifestly does not work when it is needed and never when someone who does not believe is there to witness it. I can't think of any physical/mental ability or talent that works like that.
 
Annasdottir said:
But that is all supposed to be part of psi - or at least it used to be. Funny how there are far less cases of levitation and teleportation (not to mention apports) reported nowadays.
Click to expand...

Well, you've gone and made a statement as though it were indeed fact. So let's see some evidence to support your statement. Please show me an example (in the past) of an individual levitating or teleporting. And please don't use DD Home as an example because that is not in the same context you are describing. Has there ever been a case outside of a poltergeist or mediumship situation where a human has levitated or been teleported? If there is I am not aware of it.

Originally posted by Annasdottir Ah... so, I don't get messages from the great beyond because (a) I don't make the effort and (b) I have a closed mind. Funny, those strategies don't seem to work when the loan company wants to talk to me!
My whole point is that PSI, as reported, does NOT work in the real world, the world that exists beyond the closed curtain and the darkened room. Only trained mediums can do it? That's like saying that only trained atheletes can run. And anyway, haven't you just described levitation and teleportation as a "spontaneous phenomenon", which implies that it can happen anywhere, at any time, to anyone?
What this lack of real-world PSI suggests to me that the often puzzling phenomena associated with PSI are less to do with talents and abilities and much more to do with expectations and belief. It manifestly does not work when it is needed and never when someone who does not believe is there to witness it. I can't think of any physical/mental ability or talent that works like that.
Click to expand...


I understand where you are coming from, but I believe you are grossly in error here. This is the same argument that has been made time and time again. You are obviously entrenched in your opinion and reluctant to let go of it because you are blatantly ignoring evidence.

I would disagree with you that this is like saying that only trained athletes can run. It's like saying that only trained athletes can compete in the Olympics.

Focusing on levitation and teleportation while ignoring more subtle evidence of more subtle aspects such as telepathy and clairvoyence is just an effort to debunk the phenomenon without having to deal with the inconvenience of examining the phenomenon in more detail.

I mean, obviously levitation and teleportation doesn't occur in "REAL LIFE". Who would disagree with that? I don't see anyone claiming that these things do occur in "REAL LIFE". So I don't understand why you are using that as your arguement.
 
First off, I don't really go along with this 'real life' malarky. Nothing real about my life. Totally subjective and infused with wonder. All a matter of perspective, I guess.

The more dramatic happenings (levitation & all that) definitely seem to be associated with special conditions. Let's accept it. No point criticising it, anymore than criticising the platypus for being a mammal and laying eggs. As a philosophy teacher of mine once said 'Rule one: Play the ball where you find it'.

But as for psi not manifesting beyond the seance room, think again. Surely poltergeist phenomena are notoriously domestic? What of crisis precognition? Very commonly reported, in fact. What of the old cliche about knowing who was on the phone before it was answered? How about near death experience?

Bags of evidence for psi creeping up on people unawares during the everyday grind.

The issue seems to be that for most people, it is spontaneous - prompted by the subconscious or intruding from the outside. Conscious psi is another matter, and seems to be associated with the exceptional few or those who have undergone vigorous training.

Like I said, there it lies so let's accept it.

But in the end, there is only one way you can be sure if the arguments of others won't suffice. Experience it. Go to Brasil: participate in the Umbanda. Go to Istanbul: spend time with the Sufi. Trawl the Spiritualist churchs and see it for yourself. Or sensitise yourself and just watch and listen for all the things around you that normally pass notice. Easy! :)
 
''Has there ever been a case of levitation or teleportation outside of a poltergeist or mediumship case?''

Indeed. A common occurence in the lives of saints. And not only within Christianity. Buddhist sources speak of it rather matter of factly, and such things are still reported in Sufi circles in Istanbul to this day.

Mentality does seem to play a role here, but only in so far as it sensitises. If you accept the possibility of such things, they are more likely to happen around you. That's the way it seems to work, and I don't think it necessarily demands a sacrifice of objectivity. It does invite an explanation, however, but cavilling over its failure to fulfil our expectations gets us nowhere.

Ball's in the rough, then. Best fetch the iron ;)
 
You know I was wrong. I said that I did not know of any claims of levitation outside of mediumship and poltergeist situations, but clearly there have been. You mentioned the Christian saints and the more spiritiually evolved of the Eastern cultures.

I guess what I should have said is that I did not know of any claims of levitation which have occured outside of extra ordinary circumstances to which they were attributed. Perhaps these sorts of things just require extra ordinary psychological states.

Perhaps it's just as simple as having a little bit of faith. Sounds hokey, but look at the evidence.

Check out

REPORT ON A CASE OF TABLE LEVITATION AND ASSOCIATED PHENOMENA by K. J. BATCHELDOR
JOURNAL of the Society for Psychical Research
VOLUME 43 No. 729 September 1966

and

DATA-TAPE RECORDED EXPERIMENTAL PK PHENOMENA by
COLIN BROOKES-SMITH
JOURNAL of the Society for Psychical Research
VOLUME 47 No. 756 June 1973

There...

That's a good start.
 
Thanks for the references - shall take a peek if I can.

Patience & the willing suspension of disbelief...absolute must. The best way to observe is as a participent, not as the guy by the door with his arms crossed.

Trouble with this approach is that it draws flak from all sides...

Our culture tends to deal in flawed dyads - for instance, it posits an opposition between intuition & intellect, suggesting that someone can be one or the other, but not both. Nonsense!

But, that notwithstanding, Skeptics will punish you for being intuitive & believers will punish you for being intellectual. The public will punish you for being paradoxical.

Ask Maurice Keen...

Another one - Spectator=Objective/Participent=Subjective
As if the world could ever be that simple. And as if one can understand anything from the outside.
 
Sigh. I don't seem to be getting my point across here.
For the moment, forget about the old records. Forget about the psychic societies. Forget about going to bloody Brazil.
Why doesn't it happen in normal daily life, all around us, each and every day? It's such a bloody USEFUL talent - it saves lives, saves you from damage, enables to to have a long and healthy life in which you could be producing lots of kiddies. You would think that everyone would have some sort of PSI after just a few dozen generations of natural selection. Why isn't everyone doing it as naturally as they walk or run? Why is it considered so special that only a favoured trained elite has access to it? Sure - only trained athletes can run in the Olympics, but anyone with functioning legs can run.
Somebody mentioned crisis precognition. Anyone can say afterwards that they KNEW they shouldn't get on that plane or whatever - but how many people make a point of mentioning that they had this "I shouldn't do this" feeling when a disaster didn't happen? A good way of testing "crisis precognition" would be to do a statistical study of passenger numbers on planes that have crashed, comparing them to passenger numbers on normal flights. If there is such a thing as crisis precognition, then it would show up in the numbers. It should be an easy enough study to do - hasn't anyone tied it yet?
And please don't cross me off as a close-minded skeptic. I'm longing to be a believer - but please show me the evidence. In fact, I'll give you a test. Just tell me what ONE of my several internet passwords is. (An accompanying message from my granny or my Aunty Vera is optional.)
There - should be simple enough.
 
Annasdottir said:
Anyone can say afterwards that they KNEW they shouldn't get on that plane or whatever - but how many people make a point of mentioning that they had this "I shouldn't do this" feeling when a disaster didn't happen?
Click to expand...
And how many people got on the doomed aircraft, having had a "feeling" that this flight was going to be absolutely fine?
 
Annasdottir said:
Sigh. I don't seem to be getting my point across here.
For the moment, forget about the old records. Forget about the psychic societies. Forget about going to bloody Brazil.
Why doesn't it happen in normal daily life, all around us, each and every day? It's such a bloody USEFUL talent - it saves lives, saves you from damage, enables to to have a long and healthy life in which you could be producing lots of kiddies. You would think that everyone would have some sort of PSI after just a few dozen generations of natural selection. Why isn't everyone doing it as naturally as they walk or run? Why is it considered so special that only a favoured trained elite has access to it? Sure - only trained athletes can run in the Olympics, but anyone with functioning legs can run.
Somebody mentioned crisis precognition. Anyone can say afterwards that they KNEW they shouldn't get on that plane or whatever - but how many people make a point of mentioning that they had this "I shouldn't do this" feeling when a disaster didn't happen? A good way of testing "crisis precognition" would be to do a statistical study of passenger numbers on planes that have crashed, comparing them to passenger numbers on normal flights. If there is such a thing as crisis precognition, then it would show up in the numbers. It should be an easy enough study to do - hasn't anyone tied it yet?
And please don't cross me off as a close-minded skeptic. I'm longing to be a believer - but please show me the evidence. In fact, I'll give you a test. Just tell me what ONE of my several internet passwords is. (An accompanying message from my granny or my Aunty Vera is optional.)
There - should be simple enough.
Click to expand...

Woah! Did you even read our replies?

Honestly, I don't think this is even worth arguing about any more. You are entitled to your opinion.

I have done the research. There is a basis for these beliefs whether you find it convincing or not. These are not based on fantastical stories from dubious characters. These beliefs are based on evidence obtained by investigators for over the last hundred years. These same phenomenon have been reported time and time again throughout history and across cultural barriers.

Being sarcastic about it and poking fun at the "gullability" of those who's opinions differ from your point of view is hardly convincing of anything. If anything it just shows your ignorance of the data to support these things. Show me actually studies to prove your point. Don't make up rediculous scenarios and expect anyone to be convinced by that. I know I'm not. Read those articles I mentioned.

At the very least you must be open minded to the existance of poltergeist phenonemon? If not, then I suggest you read the book "Can We Explain the Poltergeist" by A.R.G. Owen. This is the same man who conducted the "Philip Experiment" in Toronto, which was based on earlier examples of table tilting seances conducted in laboratory "like" settings. This is repeatable, recordable, psychic phenomena.

Try it for yourself.
 
But I am being open-minded. I am not being sarcastic or poking fun - my test is perfectly serious (I do have a dead granny and a dead Aunty Vera).
Most tests and studies can be faked and/or flawed; there have been enough studies of poltergeist cases, for instance, to show that the phenomena can be easily faked. That doesn't mean that all poltergeist cases are faked, just that fraud and investigator credulity should be ruled out first.
All I'm asking is for somebody, anybody, to explain why PSI doesn't manifest in everyday life so that it is taken for granted (even by people like me!), why it needs 'special conditions' and 'special people' to manifest. And if they firmly believe in PSI, to show me some first-hand evidence. Why is everyone having problems with these ideas?

PS - To help with the test, I have been keeping my passwords in mind these last couple of hours, and will continue to do so all evening.

PPS - OK, so how do I do the table-tilting thing? If it's repeatable, as you say, I should be able to do it myself.
 
Well, I doubt there is a person on this planet that could explain why this is. I guess that's why we're discussing it here.

As far as your test is concerned. It's rediculous to assume that anyone can do this. Noone is claiming to be able to do this. I doubt that even Uri Gellar himself (and you know how he boasts) would claim to be able to do what you are asking.

Check out those articles I mentioned on table tilting. I intend to do some experiments myself. I'm in the process of getting some people together. I've had enough success with Ouija board experiments to give this an honest try. I'll let you all know if anything comes of it. I have talked to people who claim to have produced effects successfully using this method.

It's been suggested that a minimum of three people is usually required. Don't expect immediate results either. It is not neccessary for the participants to be faithfull sheep. An objective open mind approach is all that is required.

The effect only seems to show itself after doubt is eliminated.
This is done by observation of ideomotor responses which begin to vibrate or move the table in subtle ways. After some time the table should begin to slide or hop. The ultimate goal of this excercise is to levitate the table thereby dispelling all doubt. Then the cat is out of the bag and the effect should be reproducable time and time again.

There is hard objective evidence to support these claims in the form of recorded data on film, audio tape, photographs, etc..
 
Rather than this deteriorating into an 'i'm right, NO, i'm right!' feastival, maybe it would be better to approach from a different angle.

I think i understand where Annasdottir is coming from and would generally consider myself as 'wanting to believe' but can't find the kind of evidence that would convince me.

Anyway, here goes. Lets assume that the examples of psi that have convinced Mindtrap and Alexius are beyond question and are completely genuine. If we take a genuine medium as an example:
What are they specifically doing mentally and physically that allows them to perform their skill?
Can the phenomena that occurs have earthly explanations, ie not entities from other dimensions but some magnified insight purely within the human brain?
If so, the skill should be able to be measured / monitored? Has this been done?
If not, how and why are the entities / communications usually conected in some way to a participant.

I think essentially what i'm asking Mindtrap and Alexius is, What convinces you that these phenomenon are genuine? or is it more of a Faith?
 
Well, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but for me it is simply because I have witnessed things myself which are consistent with the claims of others.

This does not mean that I am "faithful". On the contrary, I want to know the truth. If I and everyone else who has experienced something like this is deceiving themselves then I want to know that as well.

So...

The only way to know for sure one way or the other is to experiment. If you have never experienced anything yourself then perhaps you never will. The data seems to suggest this as well.

You will never know until you try however.

This isn't an I'm right and your wrong kind of argument. It is a lot more complex that all of that. To say that there is no evidence is just plain ridiculous. What do you think organizations like the SPR or Rhine have been doing all this time?

Is this stuff the result of surviving personalities? Who knows? I personally tend to doubt that, but am open minded to the possibility.

I think a more realistic explanation is that these things are manifestations of our subconscious mind. Just as the scientifically accepted forces of nature act upon our physical bodies and everything we sense around us, perhaps there are other forces of nature which are yet undetectable by physical means but which act upon our seat of will or that thing we call our consciousness which can not as yet be definitively located within the physical brain itself. Perhaps there is just more happening around us than we are capable of perceiving.

The evidence for PK is real. Check it out for yourself.
 
This FTMB post (and the rest of the thread) should be interesting here.

I'm sure there are other statistical studies of passenger numbers on 'doomed' journies that suggest some sort of psi ability, but I'm too tired to search for them right now!
 
Edward - good questions, well posed.

The personal one first. I believe & have been convinced. I believe through experience; I have been a player. But I am convinced by the evidence, anecdotal, statistical & instrumental, that has built up of the past century or so. As I said earlier, I see these two ways of knowing as complementary and in no sense conflicting.

On the mechanics of psi - this is a developing area, as the focus has been on demonstrating the existence of the effects up to now, rather than their origin. The recent work undertaken my Schmidt to demonstrate that clairvoyance can occur without recourse to either cold or hot reading is a case in point.

To be honest, I believe as yet nobody knows. It is an entirely open question. But I believe the existence of the effects has been shown, which is a start.

Can the phenomena have a psychological origin? At the moment, the philosophical debate revolves around this issue. Super-psi has been posited as a strong challenge to survivalist/spirit stance - the reasoning runs that until we can definitely establish a limit to scope of psi, we cannot exclude the possibility that it is responsible for any given phenmenon. Notably, Braude has advocated this argument as a means of enriching the level of debate within psychical reseach circles (amen to that). His writings are worth a look (as, I believe, is his book, 'Immortal Remains'). Incidentally, he has said that strong though the Super psi argument is, it is ultimately flawed.

The strongest case involving instrumental evidence is still, I believe, the Rosenheim poltergeist. Scole could have been, but alas...

Annas - I know, and have known, plenty of people who claim and show that psi is a day to day factor in their lives. Some where and are rather special cases, but most where not. What seems to distinguish them is a relaxed acceptence of the odd & A.O. Spare's 'Does not matter/Need not be' attitude. I think you are right - expectation does play a major role, and seems to be an integral factor. But does that invalidate anything?

You don't want to visit Brasil? Are you mad? ;)
 
Alexius, if you don't mind me asking, do you believe that these spirit personalities are as advertised or are they created by us?

Perhaps projections of our sub-conscious minds.

Perhaps even projections of a collective consciousness.

I'm thinking that perhaps what we consider "reality" is in fact just a consensus among all conscious beings. Perhaps these things simply don't occur in everyday life because everyone knows that these things don't occur in everyday life.

The data seems to suggest that groups of individuals focused on a common goal are capable of producing repeatable macro-PK far easier than any single individual ever could.

Perhaps this is what we are seeing in mediumship circles. I believe the data that has been accumulated on this topic warrants more testing in this area. I believe that if objective evidence is ever to be convincing enough to change the minds of the majority, it will be through results obtained by group experiments such as these.
 
Thanks for answering chaps.

My own theories and experiences have always lead me to the conclusion that these phenomena are due to the extraordinary power of the human brain. What constantly makes me question reported cases is the (in my opinion) illogical introduction of otherworld entities as an explanation. Its comparable to the pre history evolution of gods as explanations for the, at that time, unexplainable.

I read Colin Wilsons 'Poltergiest' in my early teens (13) and remember attempting to replicate an 'experiment' which he suggested. It consisted of trying to move a strip of paper ballanced on a pin covered by a drinking glass. I tried for days with no success then my brother (11) asked if he could try and viola, success. He was able to rotate the paper at will both clockwise and anti clockwise on several occasions over a two to three week period. We were both shocked to say the least :eek!!!!: . Six months later when trying to impress a particularly 'cool' aunt we had no success at all, his ability had gone and never reappeared.

I have also experienced 'spirits' and 'insights' whilst experimenting with both natural and lab made hallucinagens. But i know damn well that they are creations of mine and others minds.

Is any of this scientific proof ? no, but i know what i experienced and am convinced by it.
 
Let me babble on a bit more...

Perhaps it was your aunt who was preventing the PK from taking place by her unwitting use of her own PK ability. Perhaps her doubt was so ingrained into her conciousness that she could not allow it to take place.

Perhaps we are evolving as animals to the point of developing a means of perceiving and manipulating these other forces, just as I am currently able to defy the force of gravity through the use of my muscles.

Perhaps out of a neccesity to maintain order from the chaos that would otherwise take place, we are limited to this concensus form of reality, which only a person of extremely strong will could overcome.

I suggest that the reason for the elusiveness of these anomolies is simply the necessity to maintain order just as the atoms of my body are held together by the strong nuclear force.

I suspect that "psi", chi, the odic force, prana, or whatever is just as much a force as gravity is, and through it's relative nature is capable of affecting these physical forces.

Perhaps "faith" the size of a mustard seed can move mountains granted that there are not several billion other conscious organisms who believe otherwise.
 
Perhaps it was your aunt who was preventing the PK from taking place by her unwitting use of her own PK ability. Perhaps her doubt was so ingrained into her conciousness that she could not allow it to take place.
Click to expand...

Either that or as has been sugested in some poltergeist manifestations, it stopped because my brother just grew out of it.

The idea of the negative 'vibe' my aunt emitted is also very interesting. It suggests that belief or disbelief has some kind of physical manifestation outside the brain or then again perhaps it hasn't. The ideas are flowing today.

Consider a group of animals drinking at the waterhole unaware that they are being stalked by a killer Lion. As soon as Harry the Wilderbeast senses danger the 'feeling' is communicated through the group instantly, they run away. Have you also notice they rarely run in the dirction of the danger, their 'instinct' takes over and processes Harrys information infinately fast and they live to drink another day. Is this Telepathy, is it a hormonal emission, who knows. BUT maybe we have the remnants of this skill, in some people it will be more apparent than others. Maybe because of our advanced nature, as humans, the skill is also advanced but at the same time takes more and more of a back seat through lack of use and 'real' need.

Oh i don't know, it's just a thought :)
 
A dear friend of mine is a kahin. A kahin is an Anatolian shaman - he has a good relationship with a number of djinn who help him to solve other people's problems (alas, seldom his own - despite assisting others to literally uncover pots of gold, he has never succeeded on his own behalf!).

This is his explanation. These things we are speaking of are perfectly natural and always in plain view - however, we spend our days walking around gazing at our shoes. He is a kahin because he can straighten up a little and look around.

Does he communicate with discarnate personalities or projections? Rationally, the latter can't be excluded, but I believe the former. I see no good reason not to. Super psi brings to mind Hume's demolition of Berkley's idealism - there are no grounds to dismiss it & absolutely no grounds to believe it.

As Kyle has eloquently expressed on this thread, first hand experience clarifies the issue. Wittgenstein said that argument can only take us so far in certain issues - beyond that is experience. This I guess is just one of those cases - best to accept it without anxiety.

Incidentally, my time in Istanbul has brought me into contact with a lot of sufi material on this topic - will share a little at a later date.

Somebody asked earlier if there were instruction manuals in this stuff - there are, but they are written in Persian ;)
 
Here's a couple more good experimental studies in group produced Macro-PK that may be of interest to those that are studying the subject.

Journal of the Society for Psychical Research [Vol. 55, No. 812]
DR. W. J. CRAWFORD, HIS WORK AND HIS LEGACY IN
PSYCHOKINESIS by ALLAN BARHAM

Journal of the Society for Psychical Research [Vol. 55, No. 813]
THE CRAWFORD LEGACY, PART II: RECENT RESEARCH IN
MACRO-PK WITH SPECIAL REFERENCE TO THE WORK OF
BATCHELDOR AND BROOKES-SMITH by ALLAN BARHAM

BTW, Anyone know where I can obtain a copy of the paper that was published by Owen on the 'Philip Experiment'? I had heard it was published in the Journal of the Australian Society of Psychical Research. Anyone have an address or phone number? It doesn't seem like they are around anymore.
 
''I did not say that it was possible; I simply said that it happened'':)

Mind trap - thanks alot for drawing my attention to that- we have a lot to discuss, I hope ;)

Have read through the security measures twice, envisaged them, tryed to fault them - nope, nothing going. As Maurice Keen remarks, deception there would have to involve the intervention of a dexterous third party with preternatural night vision - who could duck out of view when the room was illuminated. All easily set up and tested - over to you, CSICOP...

On the philosophical content - interesting, very interesting...allow me a couple of days to mull on that ...

Then there was the thing that jolted me. The cut thumb. I've experienced that! Here is the story...I was in a pub in Aberdeen, chatting with a couple of friends, one of whom worked on the bar. We were discussing the alledged haunting of the place - she was relating some of her own experiences when I felt a very sharp painalong my left thumb, as if I had been grazed by a razor blade. I immediately took a look and saw a very, very fine cut running from from the tip to the joint of my thumb, red, with as I recall only one, small bead of blood.

I had never heard of this kind of phenomena before, and haven't heard of it since...'til now. This in fact is the first time I have spoken of it.

Once again, thank you for the link; I look forward to hearing your opinion of it.
 
Sniff sniff. Sniff sniff. I recognise that smell, Mr Keen.

Let's just examine one of the oh-so-logical sections of Mr Keen's incredible psychic experience, in which he all-but apologises for his sceptical (read "not guillible") colleagues and asks for an explanation as to why infra-red imaging cannot be used in the seance room:-

"MK: ...despite the elaborate precautions taken to avoid any form of deception, they would still like to have infra-red photography through a video: we have never quite understood what the technical objections are to this. Would you be prepared to elaborate?

A: I understand: any form of electrical equipment that is used for infra-red photographic images of any sort does exude a type of ray, I believe the right word is, but of what consistency I do not know, but this type of ray that is exuded from the photographical equipment has a burning sensation upon the ectoplasm. It is a little like placing the hand in sulphuric acid..."

OK, let's assume we're all brain-shy and we give credence to this waffle; does it, then, represent a reasonable explanation as to why infra-red cannot be used? That the rays emitted burn the spirit?

Unfortunately not. And why? Simply because Mr Spirit-dude has been misinformed. IR Imagers do NOT emit rays, they simply detect radiation. If you don't believe me, take a few moments to read up on the subject. There are two types. One amplifies small quantities of available light. The other, for use in pitch dark, detects invisible portions of the spectrum and uses them to form images. The former would be adequate for seance usage, seeing as the environment is unlikely to be totally dark. And regardless of which was used, I would like to repeat, imagers DO NOT emit rays of ANY sort!

So where does that leave us? Clearly, now that the objection has been removed, infra-red imagers WILL now be allowed into the seance rooms! Hooray! I can't wait!

Or perhaps not. I'm just wondering what the next absurd, childish, Scooby-do excuse will be.

"MK: If I may say so, with great respect, you’d be surprised how far scepticism is sometimes taken."

What surprises me is the unfeasible extent to which gullibility is taken, not to mention complete idiocy.
 
Well flamed Desperado:rolleyes:

But let's overlook the unfortunate tissue of ad-hominem jibes. Being experienced in the employment of such things, I was also a little perplexed by the comments on light-intensifying tecnology - but there it is. They don't want them used in seances, so let us devise other modes of security. Not difficult. And in fact Maurice Keen makes that point, as I recall.

Now, investigators are guests at such events - they are not needed there, and are not necessarily welcome. It behoves to respect the house rules. Now, anthropologists and other social scientists don't take flak for following a comparable ethos - why should psychical researchers? Furthermore, since when has it been incumbant upon putative disincarnate entities to be supremely well informed? Might it not be possible that there may be some substance to the comment (agreed: it is difficult to see what, but that is prima facie - not enough reason to bin the notion with scorn).

As I said in my last post, I am mulling over some aspects of this case - there is some interesting stuff in there, worthy of reflection. But then I favour reflection over reaction.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top