The Ship

[Stormkhan]

Are we not men?

We are Devo!

 

[Mythopoeika]

Hey, Human - can I hitch a lift, please?

 

[stu neville]

A robust argument has been removed from this thread, as despite containing sentiments to which many may feel some sympathy, the manner in which it was expressed was against the guidelines.

If the poster of said argument would care to re-couch his points in a less personally-directed manner, I'm sure it would inspire much discussion.

Play on.

 

[Graylien]

After 31 pages, I fail to see the point in continuing with this. So far, only two things have been established:

1) Mr 84 is convinced that he is going to leave our planet on a home-made spaceship built to alien specifications. No amount of ridicule or debunking is going to change his mind about this.

2) The sceptics are equally convinced that Mr 84 will never leave the ground, and no amount of scientific explanations about living plasma etc from Mr 84 are going to change their minds.

One inevitable fact remains. Once the saucer is built, it will either fly or it won't. If it does fly, then the sceptics will have to eat their words. If it doesn't fly, then I'm sure Mr 84 will be honest and mature enough to admit that he was mistaken.

But until that day when the saucer is completed and wheeled out for its first test flight, I really don't see the point of continuing with this repetitious and ill-tempered debate. Who gains?

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

I just want to see the pretty colours.

 

[Yithian]

But until that day when the saucer is completed and wheeled out for its first test flight, I really don't see the point of continuing with this repetitious and ill-tempered debate. Who gains?

There's a narrative being spun. I think it's worthwhile. Would you prefer to read news in its entirety - when all's resolved - or as it happens, with events unfolding?

 

[_Lizard23_]

One inevitable fact remains. Once the saucer is built, it will either fly or it won't. If it does fly, then the sceptics will have to eat their words. If it doesn't fly, then I'm sure Mr 84 will be honest and mature enough to admit that he was mistaken.

Not necessarily - the whole thing could just drag on interminably and saucer-less Capricorn-like until no one can possibly bring themselves to give a fuck any more ....... or Human could just become increasinly messianic until they shoot him full of thorazine.

Or both.

 

[Ringo]

OK, Stu, I will paraphrase my very angry and honest post into a PC one.

I feel that Human_84 delivers his argument in a very patronising and condecending manner leaving me and many others frustrated by his posts.

The amount of information being offered is miniscule, masked behind pseudo-scientific claptrap which whist I'm sure impressed him when Hamel said it, does not impress level headed adults. In my first post I suggested this was due to an over active imagination and needing a sense of belonging to something.

I resent having to repeat myself. I only do so to highlight that the original post was not merely a vicious jibe. I have no ill feelings towards Human_84, I'm sure he is a very nice chap, I just take exception at being talked to and treated like an idiot.

If this is still against guidelines, please delete it because if I can't say what is above then I do not want to post here anymore.

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps we should start a thread regarding Ringo's point. He feels that way, Avlin left on similar grounds and I have made a point too about censure ship and 'the mutual back slapping' brigade. This will be a contentious issue and will provoke angry posts - but we are adults and perhaps we do need a harder edge? To keep things simple, it might be better to start a poll or something (and move to finer points of logic, debate and argumentative styles and politics). This is merely a suggestion

 

[Yithian]

Perhaps we should start a thread regarding Ringo's point. He feels that way, Avlin left on similar grounds and I have made a point too about censure ship and 'the mutual back slapping' brigade. This will be a contentious issue and will provoke angry posts - but we are adults and perhaps we do need a harder edge?

We've been there. Save your breath. The logic runs: hard debate dissuades new posters who are potential readers of and subscribers to the magazine and keep the board fresh. Bishops, fruitcake abductees, and the tediously PC are to be handled with care.

Words like 'lifeblood of the board' will be used.

We can't play hardball with the deluded i'm afraid.

 

[morningstar667]

Bishops, fruitcake abductees, and the tediously PC are to be handled with care.

Like with long tweezers?:lol:

For what it's worth the Messianic, elliptical nature of H84's posts get's repetitious and reads like another new age tract. Other states of conciousness shouldn't be taken literally.

 

[Doctor_Occupant]

Drastically higher water levels along with intense and extended quakes and tremors will likely eliminate most people. From what I know, to live would be to flip a coin and have it stopping on its edge. Meanwhile, this rumbling sets the ships engine in motion and we board.

When you get time, Human, I'd like to check my understanding of the above. You seem to be saying, if I'm reading this right, that the ship will not fly until the Earth dies. So you're not intending to carry out a test-flight?

This also makes the project sound like self-authorising survival technology: only those smart enough to make the technology work get to use it to leave.

 

[stu neville]

OK, Stu, I will paraphrase my very angry and honest post into a PC one.
.....
If this is still against guidelines, please delete it because if I can't say what is above then I do not want to post here anymore.

Nope -that's fine. rationale to follow.

Perhaps we should start a thread regarding Ringo's point. He feels that way, Avlin left on similar grounds and I have made a point too about censure ship and 'the mutual back slapping' brigade. This will be a contentious issue and will provoke angry posts - but we are adults and perhaps we do need a harder edge?

We've been there. Save your breath. The logic runs: hard debate dissuades new posters who are potential readers of and subscribers to the magazine and keep the board fresh. Bishops, fruitcake abductees, and the tediously PC are to be handled with care.

Words like 'lifeblood of the board' will be used.

We can't play hardball with the deluded i'm afraid.

For about the 50th time, you can debate as hard as you like. You can point at an idea and state "I think this is fucking ludicrous" (in those very words). What we contend is that you don't have to point at the person proposing said ideas and say "You're a deluded tit." Anyone with half a brain will come to such a conclusion, if it's that obvious, without someone patronisingly insisting on highlighting it for them.

Hard-edged debate doesn't alienate anyone nearly as much as ad hominem abuse. Perhaps the exercise of some of this proudly proclaimed intellectual rigour which many seem so insistent on asserting could be focussed on differentiating between the two?

And note - not one mention of "lifeblood of the board".

If you want to discuss this further among yourselves, please start another thread about it in Website Issues. This thread is about Human_84's living plasma flying saucer, with which he will escape the catastrophe that will befall the rest of us, apparently.

 

[Anonymous]

To help Stu out in the future, I've decided to offer him the Gadaffi 'mock others covertly' handy tip (number 43).

Stu wrote:

For about the 50th time, you can debate as hard as you like.

I would suggest that in future you state it was for the thousandth time. One thousand in the latin language is 'M'. M in physics can = mass. Thus you can call us all mass debators and not break 'thy sacred trust', just by changing 50 to 1000. Genius...once more....

Ahhhhhhh :lol:

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

In fact this thread has covered the same ground:

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23390

For about the 50th time, you can debate as hard as you like. You can point at an idea and state "I think this is fucking ludicrous" (in those very words).

Although I would like point out that while swearing is both big and clever it only works when used in moderation (so if in doubt leave it out).

 

[stu neville]

I would suggest that in future you state it was for the thousandth time. One thousand in the latin language is 'M'.

Thank you for that.

Although I would like point out that while swearing is both big and clever it only works when used in moderation (so if in doubt leave it out).

That is, used by a moderator. Whilst moderating.

Tea, anyone?

 

[ProfessorF]

Mm Tea. What better way to pass the coming end times.
Reminds me, I must get the lawn mowed.

 

[Dingo667]

OK, Stu, I will paraphrase my very angry and honest post into a PC one.

I feel that Human_84 delivers his argument in a very patronising and condecending manner leaving me and many others frustrated by his posts.

The amount of information being offered is miniscule, masked behind pseudo-scientific claptrap which whist I'm sure impressed him when Hamel said it, does not impress level headed adults. In my first post I suggested this was due to an over active imagination and needing a sense of belonging to something.

I resent having to repeat myself. I only do so to highlight that the original post was not merely a vicious jibe. I have no ill feelings towards Human_84, I'm sure he is a very nice chap, I just take exception at being talked to and treated like an idiot.

So true.
So very very very true.

I was quite excited to see that Human was actually trying to answer me because he started with Dingo667 -
...but then there was nothing. I could feel my jaw dropping slowly and all my expectations of any explanatory answers completely disappearing.
Humans answer basically made me very very sad. To be honest I didn't even get it. At all. It was adressed to me and mentioned the first question but that was all. Complete vagueness, almost like these AI programmes that answer you but don't.
I won't ask anymore. No point. Let him fly off with his alien mates or whatever, even if we all die down here it won't matter because we won't really know 'cause we'll be all dead. :cross eye

 

[rynner2]

I won't ask anymore. No point. Let him fly off with his alien mates or whatever, even if we all die down here it won't matter because we won't really know 'cause we'll be all dead. :cross eye

Yeah, dead is good, if it avoids all the clap-trap.

(Only trouble is, I'm not sure it will... )

 

[wembley8]

"Drastically higher water levels along with intense and extended quakes and tremors will likely eliminate most people."

I find it hard to see how this could possibly kill more than a small fraction of the Earth's population. Rising water cannot cover that much of the planets surface even if you melted the polar icecaps, and quakes are not that dangerous. As end-of-the-world scenarios go it's a but dull (and what's the rationale, anyway? Presumably nothing that geologists could detect).

 

[morningstar667]

"Drastically higher water levels along with intense and extended quakes and tremors will likely eliminate most people."
As end-of-the-world scenarios go it's a but dull (and what's the rationale, anyway? Presumably nothing that geologists could detect).

The plot of a certain dull movie springs to mind

 

[Stormkhan]

Perhaps he's accidentally psychically linked himself to some of the themed rides at Disneyworld.

 

[Dingo667]

Perhaps he's accidentally psychically linked himself to some of the themed rides at Disneyworld.

Which - lets face it - can be deadly...

 

[Human_84]

Dingo that’s preposterous. 2 posts back, I made a statement, it went as such:

I tried; tried to answer all the questions and you have shown me that my answers won’t be sufficient. I've been telling you what I know, but, being sure nothing is compromised in the process.

Some people, still are not comprehending this. Yes I realize you want all the answers and now; however I can only converse on the things that I'm able. This was a warning that you'd probably not thoroughly enjoy my answers, you looked past.

Doctor, No testing needs to be done.

Wembley, "quakes are not that dangerous"?? Interesting.

Codelephant, as for the granite, nothing can be too heavy. Once engine is put in motion, craft will weigh nothing at all. Plasma energy (from air) is directed outward thru chambers, and will surround the craft completely. I do not scientifically understand the reason why surrounding something in plasma shields it from gravity, but you can find information on this at some of the websites apparently. To answer you next question, as for communicating with entities from another place, I cannot see anyone "go mad" from this. Almost everyone has the ability to do so, but as said before, it’s a progression. A person could conceivably initiate this communication, unprepared, it could be very frightening. The 'aura' surrounding the grays for instance, is said to clash with our own. My knowledge is not here, but I have done this. There wasn't much 'communication' going on the first time. You need to enter deep state of conscious, like trance. Open yourself up to anything, asking for any sort of contact. First time, personally I had this feeling come over me like I wasn't supposed to be where I was, but it was just, black. I felt that I could pull away, and come back conscious at this point if I chose, but I was too persistent to do so. I saw this face, it was somewhat like a grey as you see in pop-culture, looking at me, and I knew that it knew I could see it. Then it turned away. I got the feeling almost like it was a movie, I was watching this thing, live its life. It was a person, but except not. I was seeing and feeling that, it was walking from room to room. But then I hear all this whispering sounds, like 100 people whispering things, and then I feel sadness and everything’s black again, and I wake up, feeling awful. Not sure what’s wrong, I just felt depressed for a bit. I practice lucid dreaming, out of body experiences, and I know the difference between a dream and not. This was different. Apart from the emotions I felt, and feeling a connection with this "thing" who apparently knew of me, it was like watching a movie, but things were sped up. Difficult to explain, but this has been the best I've done at explaining it (to date). From what I know, contact with an entity such as this is usually very unomfortable for most people, perhaps I was lucky this time? This was my first, of three. The other two, I am not willing to share, I apologize in advance. Maybe this should go into a different area of the forums than here, not sure.

Morningstar, for the first question, I won't.

To ringo and others who share a similar viewpoint, I'm sorry I cannot post everything I know onto the forums and give out enough information for people to hurt themselves, and I'm also sorry that I don't fully understand each and every aspect of the technology down to the wire. As this started out, if you remember, the first dozen pages were almost complete ridicule towards myself. Everyone thought this information given was totally fabricated, and they'd be a monkey's uncle if I had any real connection to what I spoke of. Those drastic viewpoints have been solidly proven off-base. As for patronizing, the only person in these entire 32 pages that has been patronized is I, on a constant basis. Some of you, can be very inspiring at times.

Unfortunately I had gotten the short end of the stick on my cones, but still I'm progressing with this prototype. Look, as for an update, my cones have come, they are being laser cut to 1/1000th inch accuracy today or tomorrow, I needed some trimming done because all proportions must match to matrix table I've drawn. Also, if everything goes as planned, my magnetics will be on their way today. Everything else I'll need, can be found locally to my knowledge; shouldn't be a problem. I'm very excited about this.

 

[ProfessorF]

And in the mean time, we shall wait and see. Always with the waiting and the seeing.

If I had the means, I would love to come and see the prototype. It is a shame however that the test flight will coincide with the destruction of Earth though; I know I'd be nervous.

Any chance of some updated pics Human?

As an aside - have you ever considered making these plans commercially available?

 

[feen5]

As this started out, if you remember, the first dozen pages were almost complete ridicule towards myself. Everyone thought this information given was totally fabricated, and they'd be a monkey's uncle if I had any real connection to what I spoke of. Those drastic viewpoints have been solidly proven off-base. As for patronizing, the only person in these entire 32 pages that has been patronized is I, on a constant basis. Some of you, can be very inspiring at times.

Are you sure you were reading the same thread as the rest of us, yes you got a little gentle ribbing in the first few pages but the first 12 pages were not complete ridicule, that type of exaggeration does not endear you to anyone. This sort of bleeding heart martyrdom only grates on everyone elses sensebilities if you ask me.
The majority of this thread has been taken up with very sensible questions and requests from you which you have so far managed to avoid. So please less of the 'woe is me the whole world doesn't understand me' rubbish.
I know you don't have to explain yourself to anyone thats your perogative but if you start a thread like this then you should (a) expect questions and also (b) be expected to provide far more answers or explanations than your giving.

 

[GNC]

I and others have asked this before, but how will the plasma work in space if you need air to keep it going? And what will you breathe?

 

[Doctor_Occupant]

Human;

thanks for the response.

I think I'm finally starting to 'get it', in terms of how the craft you're building actually hangs together and how it is intended to work.

Am I right in thinking that the pilot/crew are as much components as the cones/magnetics etc?

 

[wembley8]

Wembley, "quakes are not that dangerous"?? Interesting.

Suggest you do some research on this. How many people get killed by quakes in developed countries?
Even the great quake in San Francisco only killed about 3,000 out of a population of 400,000. That was a densely populated urban district. An earthquake in a rural district is not going to do anything like that at a percentage - and now we have far greater understanding and people are much better educated about what to do.

However you cut it, quakes and rising water are not going to be the end of the world for at least 99% of the population.

Have you thought about asteroid strikes instead? That could do some real damage - and it would be much easier to fit in with known science.

 

[Dingo667]

Human, thanks for the response, calling my complete bewilderment preposterous didn't go down well with me as I am still none the wiser, whatever you are telling me. However I am willing to make it easy, with just one little question which has bugged me for a while now:

Lets say your ship is working fine, what is it that stops your group from making the plans freely available so that other people can "save" themselves and their families from the impending doom as well?


I mean you know the earth is going to smithereens, you feel ok because you'll be safe - good for you. However, what about people who can't communicate with aliens and hence will die, shouldn't there be some kind of efford by your group to at least give others a chance to build their own rescue vehicle [considering they are fellow human beings] or is there some sort of alien copyright on the ship?

Again the above may sound slightly sarcastic but I really would like tho know. Just to help you along, please don't give me poetic riddles but a clear understandable answer.