The Thread Of Sherlock Holmes

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
52,025
Reaction score
27,353
Points
309
Location
Eblana
The Irregulars: A revisionist retelling of the Holmes and Watson tales. Watson hires the teen Irregulars to solve cases for him and Holmes. This is an alternate London, there is no racism, there are black members of the aristocracy, Watson is black. The miseries of Victorian Britain remain, workhouses, poverty. Two episodes in and we have seen dark magic at work, powers gained through using Ouija Boards, control of corvids, a "Tooth Fairy" who rips teeth from peoples mouths, "pod people". One of the Irregulars is a psychic who can enter peoples minds. This really moves into horror territory and is very much an adult series. Created by Tom Bidwell. Eight episodes, on Netflix. 8/10.
 

PeteByrdie

Privateer in the service of Princess Frideswide
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
2,344
Reaction score
2,226
Points
159
I've just watched the first episode of The Irregulars. There's plenty here to annoy both Holmes purists and history buffs, but hell, I enjoyed it. On its own, it's not so much a 'fresh take' or 'updating' of Holmes, but just a cracking, fun story. Not a classic, but a fun watch.
 

charliebrown

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
578
Reaction score
723
Points
93
Location
Earth
My wife and I by accident saw the first irregulars episode, and I am sorry it did not set well with us.

We did not like the fact that Watson was so mean to the girl.

When Watson threw the owed money at the feet of the girl, that was a turn off because the girl fulfilled her end of the deal and I felt Watson was not wanting to pay.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

PeteByrdie

Privateer in the service of Princess Frideswide
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
2,344
Reaction score
2,226
Points
159
My wife and I by accident saw the first irregulars episode, and I am sorry it did not set well with us.

We did not like the fact that Watson was so mean to the girl.

When Watson threw the owed money at the feet of the girl, that was a turn off because the girl fulfilled her end

of the deal and I felt Watson was not wanting to pay.
Understandable, the series is unkind to Holmes and Watson. However, I kind of like the idea that our only real knowledge of those characters is (mostly) from Watson's own words, and that could be extremely misleading. They may, indeed, have been extremely unpleasant characters in real life (had they existed).
 

charliebrown

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
578
Reaction score
723
Points
93
Location
Earth
It seems writers like Charles Dickens who wrote David Copperfield described the poor in London as being really trampled on.

True in reality, Watson and Holmes if they were real people in those times , would have been unkind people.
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
32,019
Reaction score
19,279
Points
309
Dickens wasn't unkind. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wasn't unkind. Plenty of people in Victorian times were keen to help the poor. Don't like the sound of this! In fact - was this filmed after the Doyle estate sued Netflix? Might explain the negativity!
 

Souleater

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
3,036
Reaction score
5,109
Points
203
Dickens wasn't unkind. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wasn't unkind. Plenty of people in Victorian times were keen to help the poor. Don't like the sound of this! In fact - was this filmed after the Doyle estate sued Netflix? Might explain the negativity!
I was always sure that Holmes was quite kind to his 'irregulars' from what i can remember of the tv shows ive seen, i was an avid watcher of Jeremy Bretts Holmes. On a side note i remember visiting the set of Baker st at the Granada studios tour when i was a kid, it was great.
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
32,019
Reaction score
19,279
Points
309
I was always sure that Holmes was quite kind to his 'irregulars' from what i can remember of the tv shows ive seen, i was an avid watcher of Jeremy Bretts Holmes. On a side note i remember visiting the set of Baker st at the Granada studios tour when i was a kid, it was great.
When I was little there was a TV programme called The Baker Street Irregulars, I really liked it and Holmes was their hero in it - I don't think we ever saw him, though, just heard his voice.
 

PeteByrdie

Privateer in the service of Princess Frideswide
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
2,344
Reaction score
2,226
Points
159
When I was little there was a TV programme called The Baker Street Irregulars, I really liked it and Holmes was their hero in it - I don't think we ever saw him, though, just heard his voice.
This rings a bell, so I started googling. I haven't found an old programme that I may have seen as a kid yet, but I was surprised to find this from just a few years ago (relatively), with the excellent Jonathan Pryce as Holmes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes_and_the_Baker_Street_Irregulars
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
8,125
Reaction score
17,322
Points
309
True in reality, Watson and Holmes if they were real people in those times , would have been unkind people.
l’ve actually read all of the original Holmes books and stories. l don’t recall any instances where either of the main protagonists are cruel or unkind. Indeed, display of such behaviour by other characters is, in the stories, used as an indication that the offender is contemptible and richly deserves what’s coming to him.

maximus otter
 

Analogue Boy

Bar 6
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
11,656
Reaction score
11,861
Points
309
I’ve read the Complete Sherlock Holmes too. I don’t recall him being cruel to his Irregulars. If he was, I doubt they would have been so keen to work for him and would have just scarpered when they saw him walking up the street.
 

PeteByrdie

Privateer in the service of Princess Frideswide
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
2,344
Reaction score
2,226
Points
159
Understandable, the series is unkind to Holmes and Watson. However, I kind of like the idea that our only real knowledge of those characters is (mostly) from Watson's own words, and that could be extremely misleading. They may, indeed, have been extremely unpleasant characters in real life (had they existed).
Since this seems to have spun a little off into its own discussion, I just want to clarify the point I was making. I don't think everyone of any position in Victorian London would have been cruel, condescending to lower classes and uncharitable. I don't think Conan Doyle portrayed Holmes and Watson that way, although I think they described the Baker Street Irregulars in quite disparaging terms if memory serves, but only with regards to their appearance and manner. However, in a world in which Conan Doyle's works are being constantly adapted, I think there's room for the idea, in at least one adaptation, that Watson, who supposedly wrote the published accounts, may have portrayed himself and Holmes in a very sanitised and positive way. People are multilayered, and often tailor their accounts of themselves to appeal to those to whom they're speaking, or portray themselves how they'd like to be, or how they'd like to be seen, not necessarily how they act in desperation or confrontation. For what it's worth, the Watson I've seen so far in The Irregulars seems to be in a state of desperation. I'm four episodes in. In the end, this is one of many adaptations, and it contains a few fortean staples (especially the third episode), so might be worth a watch for those not too precious about the source material.
 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
4,602
Reaction score
1,700
Points
184
What must be remembered is ... cruelty is from our perspective and morality and not from those at the time.
Treating servants as, well, bits of furniture may seem to be cruel or at least heartless but, in the day, that was perfectly acceptable.

As far as Holmes being cruel his investigation on the Adler Case was pretty calculating (as expected); checking with the Prince that he'd tried muggings, burglary etc. before hiring him. Thing is, when it came to his work, he was utterly ruthless, doing what needs doing. Being cruel implies an emotional investment.
 

PeteByrdie

Privateer in the service of Princess Frideswide
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
2,344
Reaction score
2,226
Points
159
I've just finished The Irregulars. I enjoyed it, but it's walked a fine line between entertaining and, well, a bit naff. I don't have much enthusiasm for a second series, although I'd probably watch one. There were some original elements here, but also a lot that was hackneyed. I'm at an age where I could go without ever seeing another rip in the veil between this world and the next, or another tear in the fabric of spacetime for that matter. In fact, any hole between dimensions that needs closing, plugging, sewing up or polyfilling. For what it's worth, the young cast of this show were excellent. The rest did a reasonable job.
 
Top