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The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

blessmycottonsocks said:
Because an animal didn't have to die to produce a vegan sausage roll.
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44% of daily recommended saturated fat and 30% of salt in ONE vegan sausage roll but they are lauded in the media because they are vegan. No-one should be eating that (I don’t eat sausage rolls or other puff pastry products for this reason
 
cycleboy2 said:
Yep, I regularly have a Greggs vegan sausage roll after a bike ride, when I like a nice savoury snack, and they're absolutely fine and dandy.

And I'm not even veggie.
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Wow - eating vegetables when you’re not even a vegetarian - whatever next? I’m gonna try one!

The bakery I go to does vegetarian rolls which look the same as their sausage rolls but they call them mushroom bakes. Also contain lentils, probably other stuff too. They’re really tasty, full of umaminess and a nice variation on the meat version which are also excellent.
 
maximus otter said:
l’d rather beat my tongue wafer-thin with a meat tenderiser then staple it to my forehead, but thanks for asking.

maximus otter
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If you need a hand, I hear Trev is a dab hand with a mallet & would be happy to assist.
 
maximus otter said:
“Vegetarians are more likely to be depressed than meat eaters, a new study has suggested.
Researchers in the US reviewed 18 studies published from 1997 to 2019 which examined the relationship between mental health and eating meat on a total of 160,257 people. ...
Click to expand...

SadVeggies.jpg

Update ... This new research report (in press) from Brazil once again detected a higher incidence of depressive episodes among vegetarians. Here are the bibliographic details and abstract ...
Ingrid S. Kohl, Vivian C. Luft, Ana Luísa Patrão, Maria del Carmen B. Molina, Maria Angélica A. Nune, Maria I. Schmidt
Association between meatless diet and depressive episodes: A cross-sectional analysis of baseline data from the longitudinal study of adult health (ELSA-Brasil),
Journal of Affective Disorders, 2022. ISSN 0165-0327.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jad.2022.09.059.

Abstract

Background
The association between vegetarianism and depression is still unclear. We aimed to investigate the association between a meatless diet and the presence of depressive episodes among adults.

Methods
A cross-sectional analysis was performed with baseline data from the ELSA-Brasil cohort, which included 14,216 Brazilians aged 35 to 74 years. A meatless diet was defined from in a validated food frequency questionnaire. The Clinical Interview Schedule-Revised (CIS-R) instrument was used to assess depressive episodes. The association between meatless diet and presence of depressive episodes was expressed as a prevalence ratio (PR), determined by Poisson regression adjusted for potentially confounding and/or mediating variables: sociodemographic parameters, smoking, alcohol intake, physical activity, several clinical variables, self-assessed health status, body mass index, micronutrient intake, protein, food processing level, daily energy intake, and changes in diet in the preceding 6 months.

Results
We found a positive association between the prevalence of depressive episodes and a meatless diet. Meat non-consumers experienced approximately twice the frequency of depressive episodes of meat consumers, PRs ranging from 2.05 (95%CI 1.00–4.18) in the crude model to 2.37 (95%CI 1.24–4.51) in the fully adjusted model. Limitations. The cross-sectional design precluded the investigation of causal relationships.

Conclusions
Depressive episodes are more prevalent in individuals who do not eat meat, independently of socioeconomic and lifestyle factors. Nutrient deficiencies do not explain this association. The nature of the association remains unclear, and longitudinal data are needed to clarify causal relationship.

SOURCE: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032722010643
 
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hunck said:
Wow - eating vegetables when you’re not even a vegetarian - whatever next? I’m gonna try one!
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Well I tried one for research purposes & found it disappointing to be honest. Tasted OK but very dry, pastry very doughy not like puff, filling skimpy. I wouldn’t buy again unless I was desperate but what can you expect for a quid? Definitely wouldn’t try one of their ‘real’ sausage rolls.
 
EnolaGaia said:

Update ... This new research report (in press) from Brazil once again detected a higher incidence of depressive episodes among vegetarians. Here are the bibliographic details and abstract ...
Ingrid S. Kohl, Vivian C. Luft, Ana Luísa Patrão, Maria del Carmen B. Molina, Maria Angélica A. Nune, Maria I. Schmidt
Association between meatless diet and depressive episodes: A cross-sectional analysis of baseline data from the longitudinal study of adult health (ELSA-Brasil),
Journal of Affective Disorders, 2022. ISSN 0165-0327.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jad.2022.09.059.

Abstract

Background
The association between vegetarianism and depression is still unclear. We aimed to investigate the association between a meatless diet and the presence of depressive episodes among adults.

Methods
A cross-sectional analysis was performed with baseline data from the ELSA-Brasil cohort, which included 14,216 Brazilians aged 35 to 74 years. A meatless diet was defined from in a validated food frequency questionnaire. The Clinical Interview Schedule-Revised (CIS-R) instrument was used to assess depressive episodes. The association between meatless diet and presence of depressive episodes was expressed as a prevalence ratio (PR), determined by Poisson regression adjusted for potentially confounding and/or mediating variables: sociodemographic parameters, smoking, alcohol intake, physical activity, several clinical variables, self-assessed health status, body mass index, micronutrient intake, protein, food processing level, daily energy intake, and changes in diet in the preceding 6 months.

Results
We found a positive association between the prevalence of depressive episodes and a meatless diet. Meat non-consumers experienced approximately twice the frequency of depressive episodes of meat consumers, PRs ranging from 2.05 (95%CI 1.00–4.18) in the crude model to 2.37 (95%CI 1.24–4.51) in the fully adjusted model. Limitations. The cross-sectional design precluded the investigation of causal relationships.

Conclusions
Depressive episodes are more prevalent in individuals who do not eat meat, independently of socioeconomic and lifestyle factors. Nutrient deficiencies do not explain this association. The nature of the association remains unclear, and longitudinal data are needed to clarify causal relationship.

SOURCE: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032722010643
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There is iirc, a link between low cholesterol and depression.
 
Noticed this morning that my local Tesco (Cornwall, UK) had relocated all the plant-based faux meats to a smaller area across the aisle and reduced the range. Then found this online:

""Sales of refrigerated meat alternatives at retailers are down 10.5% by volume for the 52-weeks ending Sept. 4, 2022

https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/...ndustry-possibly-suffering-perception-problem

I'm not surprised, the faux bacon was particularly sad, lacking all the frankly unhealthy salt and fat that makes bacon such an appealing treat in the first place. Yes, there has clearly been a social media driven surge in interest in everything vegan in recent years and supermarkets jumped on the bandwagon, just as they jump on any food-related bandwagon for fear of missing it. Clearly a number of people have tried a vegan diet but few have stuck to it and now the interest in waning:

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/veganuary-2021-vegan-diet-most-people-dont-keep-up-834085

https://www.chefspencil.com/veganism-popularity-report-2022/

(caveat: as ever, I support and respect those who chose a healthy vegetarian diet that doesn't rely on pea protein and soya processed into faux meats)
 
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I've noticed our local Tesco has had a quiet re-positioning of it's stock.
They've got their home baking section 'filling out' the racks next to the 'free from' section. They've actually increased their most expensive lines of meat, such as lamb.
 
Vegan who refused to tackle mice infestation because it was against her ethical beliefs is fined

A vegan who failed to deal with a mouse infestation at her mid-terrace home, claiming that taking action would go against her ethical beliefs, has been fined by a court.

Tendring District Council said 73-year-old Margaret Manzoni, of Clacton Road, St Osyth in Essex, "considered the mice her pets" and "said they would not go to her neighbours because she looked after them".

The authority prosecuted the pensioner for a second time after she did not comply with a previous order made in April.

"While some building works were carried out by the council, food and shelter continued to be provided by Manzoni for the mice - leading to an overpowering smell and which forced neighbours to move out," a spokesman for Tendring District Council said.

At a hearing at Colchester Magistrates' Court this month, Manzoni was told that while the court "respected her beliefs as an ethical vegan, others saw mice as vermin", the council said.

The court said that the "impact of the infestation on neighbours meant inaction was not appropriate", according to the authority.

Manzoni admitted at the hearing on October 6 to charges of failing to comply with a notice under the Environmental Protection Act and a notice under the Prevention of Damage by Pests Act.

She was fined £1,500, with the court awarding the council costs of £2,395 and imposing a victim surcharge of £150.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...kle-mice-infestation-against-ethical-beliefs/

maximus otter
 

Big Veganism is coming for you​


I’ve seen the Brave New World of food prophesied in Aldous Huxley’s 1932 novel — and it doesn’t work.

Set in the World State in AF 632 (AF standing for “After Ford”, he of the Model T), Huxley’s dystopia offers nothing but synthetic nosh. At a party for the World State’s Alphas, the guests are induced to “take a carotine sandwich, a slice of vitamin A pâté, a glass of champagne-surrogate”. Even the proles get “beef-surrogate” — which these days we might call a plant-based burger.

If Huxley were to visit the tiny Dutch university town of Wageningen, he would be unnerved by the accuracy of his forecast. So would you. Wageningen, an hour by car from Amsterdam, is the capital so-called “Food Valley”.

The Sustainable Protein System is the promotion of “alt-proteins”, as opposed to the conventional proteins we might get from food, which come from farmed animals. Some of the alt-protein research in Food Valley is directed towards consuming insects (“entomophagy”); some is more focused on algae, fungi — or mycobacterial this, that and the other. But the big research bucks are flowing one way only, and that is to plant-based alternatives to meat.

More than 60 agri-food multinationals have invested in Food Valley and centred their research operations there. They include Kraft Heinz, Nestlé, Cargill, Kikkoman, and Dupont. Upfield, the giant plant-based group behind Flora and the Greek vegan cheese brand Violife, has constructed a €50 million Food Science Centre at Wageningen. This pales in comparison to Unilever’s €85 million Foods Innovation Centre, nicknamed “The Hive”, with its priority research area for “plant-based ingredients and meat alternatives”.

Multinationals love the phrase “plant-based” because it is a euphemism for the messianic, cultish, modish cause they have adopted: veganism. But the official FoodValley NL platform is less squeamish about its mission: it self-identifies as “Vegan Valley”.

Is it not curious how veganism, which dresses itself in the hip clothes of animal welfare, anti-climate change and eco-feminism, can’t wait to get into the blender with big business? Sniffing around the multinationals of Food Valley are no less than 3,500 SMEs, a remarkable number of which are vegan start-ups. They can smell the money, and vegan ethics invariably melt when some suit from a corp opens the wallet — even when that suit is from the very meat industry vegans profess to despise.

The flow of tainted money into veganism began big time in 2016, when Tyson Foods, one of the world’s largest meat-processing companies, took a 5% stake in fake meat start-up Beyond Meat. In 2018, Unilever bought Dutch meat-replacement producer De Vegetarische Slager for an estimated €30 million. Last year, the Brazilian meat giant JBS bought the Dutch meat-replacement company Vivera for €341 million.

Proponents of alt-protein claim that it is a necessity, required to feed the world’s growing population. The world’s farmers, however, already produce enough to feed current and future mouths. The problem is waste — a third of global food is binned, or left to rot — and distribution. You can produce as many plant-based burgers as you care to, but if the poor are unable to access them, they will still hunger.

But then, Big Veganism has little incentive to target the hungry. A recent paper, “Vegan food geographies and the rise of Big Veganism”, makes the salient point that “lower-tech, minimally-processed and socially embedded vegan foodways are noticeably absent” from the vegan model being promoted in places like Food Valley. Think about it: the essential ingredients of plant-based food are wheat and soy, precisely those crops already industrialised by the Dutch model and in the grip of the agri-multinationals. A Big Vegan world, without reform to waste and food-distribution policies, would require about one-third more cropland. It would therefore also require more artificial fertiliser (likely nitrogen-based), plus pesticides, herbicides and all the other polluting “cides” produced by Bayer, Syngeta and the rest of the agri-chemical giants.

The Brave New World of Big Veganism will be, in other words, a corporate dream. Industrially-produced crops will be fed into factories owned by food multinationals and transformed — by energy-demanding and expensive machinery — into a meat substitute. That meat substitute is then likely to arrive in a supermarket in an expensive, value-added, ready-made form (“plant-based chicken tikka”, “plant-based spaghetti Bolognese”, ad nauseum).

Big Veganism will kill home cooking — the making of meals from prime ingredients — which is a form of freedom, a creative act. Mind you, the veganised masses will be too feeble to protest against the loss of their humanity: in June last year the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that children on vegan diets were, on average, 1.2 inches shorter and had up to 6% lower bone mineral content than meat-eating peers.

https://unherd.com/2022/10/big-veganism-is-coming-for-you/

maximus otter
 
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He bit off more than he could chew.

The Beyond Meat executive who was accused of biting a man's nose is leaving the vegan food company.

The US firm, known for its plant-based burgers, had suspended Douglas Ramsey, then chief operating officer, indefinitely after the incident. His departure comes amid a broader shake-up at the company, which is struggling with faltering demand for fake meat. The firm also said it was axing 200 staff, about 20% of its workforce.

"We believe our decision to reduce personnel and expenses throughout the company, including our leadership group, reflects an appropriate right-sizing of our organization given current economic conditions," Beyond Meat boss Ethan Brown said. "We remain confident in our ability to deliver on the long-term growth and impact expected from our global brand."

Beyond Meat, which started selling its plant-based food in 2012, has blamed cost-of-living pressures for pushing shoppers to less expensive options, including traditional meat.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63260645
 
maximus otter said:

Big Veganism is coming for you​


I’ve seen the Brave New World of food prophesied in Aldous Huxley’s 1932 novel — and it doesn’t work.

Set in the World State in AF 632 (AF standing for “After Ford”, he of the Model T), Huxley’s dystopia offers nothing but synthetic nosh. At a party for the World State’s Alphas, the guests are induced to “take a carotine sandwich, a slice of vitamin A pâté, a glass of champagne-surrogate”. Even the proles get “beef-surrogate” — which these days we might call a plant-based burger.

If Huxley were to visit the tiny Dutch university town of Wageningen, he would be unnerved by the accuracy of his forecast. So would you. Wageningen, an hour by car from Amsterdam, is the capital so-called “Food Valley”.

The Sustainable Protein System is the promotion of “alt-proteins”, as opposed to the conventional proteins we might get from food, which come from farmed animals. Some of the alt-protein research in Food Valley is directed towards consuming insects (“entomophagy”); some is more focused on algae, fungi — or mycobacterial this, that and the other. But the big research bucks are flowing one way only, and that is to plant-based alternatives to meat.

More than 60 agri-food multinationals have invested in Food Valley and centred their research operations there. They include Kraft Heinz, Nestlé, Cargill, Kikkoman, and Dupont. Upfield, the giant plant-based group behind Flora and the Greek vegan cheese brand Violife, has constructed a €50 million Food Science Centre at Wageningen. This pales in comparison to Unilever’s €85 million Foods Innovation Centre, nicknamed “The Hive”, with its priority research area for “plant-based ingredients and meat alternatives”.

Multinationals love the phrase “plant-based” because it is a euphemism for the messianic, cultish, modish cause they have adopted: veganism. But the official FoodValley NL platform is less squeamish about its mission: it self-identifies as “Vegan Valley”.

Is it not curious how veganism, which dresses itself in the hip clothes of animal welfare, anti-climate change and eco-feminism, can’t wait to get into the blender with big business? Sniffing around the multinationals of Food Valley are no less than 3,500 SMEs, a remarkable number of which are vegan start-ups. They can smell the money, and vegan ethics invariably melt when some suit from a corp opens the wallet — even when that suit is from the very meat industry vegans profess to despise.

The flow of tainted money into veganism began big time in 2016, when Tyson Foods, one of the world’s largest meat-processing companies, took a 5% stake in fake meat start-up Beyond Meat. In 2018, Unilever bought Dutch meat-replacement producer De Vegetarische Slager for an estimated €30 million. Last year, the Brazilian meat giant JBS bought the Dutch meat-replacement company Vivera for €341 million.

Proponents of alt-protein claim that it is a necessity, required to feed the world’s growing population. The world’s farmers, however, already produce enough to feed current and future mouths. The problem is waste — a third of global food is binned, or left to rot — and distribution. You can produce as many plant-based burgers as you care to, but if the poor are unable to access them, they will still hunger.

But then, Big Veganism has little incentive to target the hungry. A recent paper, “Vegan food geographies and the rise of Big Veganism”, makes the salient point that “lower-tech, minimally-processed and socially embedded vegan foodways are noticeably absent” from the vegan model being promoted in places like Food Valley. Think about it: the essential ingredients of plant-based food are wheat and soy, precisely those crops already industrialised by the Dutch model and in the grip of the agri-multinationals. A Big Vegan world, without reform to waste and food-distribution policies, would require about one-third more cropland. It would therefore also require more artificial fertiliser (likely nitrogen-based), plus pesticides, herbicides and all the other polluting “cides” produced by Bayer, Syngeta and the rest of the agri-chemical giants.

The Brave New World of Big Veganism will be, in other words, a corporate dream. Industrially-produced crops will be fed into factories owned by food multinationals and transformed — by energy-demanding and expensive machinery — into a meat substitute. That meat substitute is then likely to arrive in a supermarket in an expensive, value-added, ready-made form (“plant-based chicken tikka”, “plant-based spaghetti Bolognese”, ad nauseum).

Big Veganism will kill home cooking — the making of meals from prime ingredients — which is a form of freedom, a creative act. Mind you, the veganised masses will be too feeble to protest against the loss of their humanity: in June last year the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that children on vegan diets were, on average, 1.2 inches shorter and had up to 6% lower bone mineral content than meat-eating peers.

https://unherd.com/2022/10/big-veganism-is-coming-for-you/

maximus otter
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Soylent Green is ......brocolli?
 
maximus otter said:
in June last year the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that children on vegan diets were, on average, 1.2 inches shorter and had up to 6% lower bone mineral content than meat-eating peers.
Click to expand...
Given that there is a solid link between IQ and nutrition (during the brain's development), with any luck vegans will get steadily dumber and then, come the revolution...
:tumble:
 
Coal said:
Given that there is a solid link between IQ and nutrition (during the brain's development), with any luck vegans will get steadily dumber and then, come the revolution...
:tumble:
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Careful; you will be accused of eugenicism. :)
 
I've lived in India in some of the holy places where cows are especially revered as sacred and are looked after properly unto and when they die naturally of old age. The cows, and their calves, are brushed down everyday, often washed by being hosed and sometimes decorated with bells, sandalwood pulp and other stuff. They tend to just stand peacefully without any restraint while that is being done. Those cows seem happy, peaceful and quite content with life.

Sometimes if a cows wants to be milked it sort of 'fake' kicks at it's udder with a back leg and will carry on doing so until it is milked. Then it will stand still while being milked by hand.

The vegans who rant on about how milking cows is cruel don't know what they're on about. They are ignorant idiots posing as the great saviours of all things 'cow'.

What is cruel in the west is that the cow is just a commodity that is slaughtered when it's usefulness as a commodity is over. While it is alive and producing it's only value is profit. While I applaud the idiot vegan extremists ideal to stop animal slaughter, I loathe their methods. Being total dorks and pouring milk all around the place of their chosen action is hardly educational or inspirational. They just come across as the same as obsessive religious fanatics.

Once while in Mayapur in Bengal whilst staying at a Hare Krsna temple (I was once a Hare Krsna for over 10 years) some loud Bengali kids, they're all loud, with sun baked clay pots asked me if wanted fresh 'goghabi'. 'Goghabi' being the Bengali word for cow milk. (Goshala being the word for cow shed.) This was around the early 1980 so things may have changed by now. I said yes and they stopped the next passing cow which appeared in a group of cows after about 25 minutes which stood patiently to be milked. It cost me all of 1 rupee, at the time, all of 3p. The taste of fresh raw warm milk is something hard to describe. It was delicious beyond description. It's nothing like the crap tasteless watery milk we now consume. No injections or drugs for this disease or that and no treatment of the milk in a place where no chemical are used on the land. I drank all I could. I think it was about 12p's worth. I felt fat, happy and my stomach felt wonderful. Next day, and sorry to be gross, my poo's were perfect, if that's the right word.

Those loud laughing kids aged around 7 or 8 were so happy that me, a westerner, enjoyed the milk so much. The cow was completely undisturbed as it then slowly wandered off to join the herd, The kids were over the moon for a few rupees, I was happy and as full up as if I eaten a full meal, and all in all, just how it should be.

The extremist vegans think they have the monopoly of being caring, they know jack sh*t. All they have is big mouths, outlandish actions, a cause to fight for, but no intelligence and little knowledge.
 
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ramonmercado said:
He bit off more than he could chew.

The Beyond Meat executive who was accused of biting a man's nose is leaving the vegan food company.

The US firm, known for its plant-based burgers, had suspended Douglas Ramsey, then chief operating officer, indefinitely after the incident. His departure comes amid a broader shake-up at the company, which is struggling with faltering demand for fake meat. The firm also said it was axing 200 staff, about 20% of its workforce.

"We believe our decision to reduce personnel and expenses throughout the company, including our leadership group, reflects an appropriate right-sizing of our organization given current economic conditions," Beyond Meat boss Ethan Brown said. "We remain confident in our ability to deliver on the long-term growth and impact expected from our global brand."

Beyond Meat, which started selling its plant-based food in 2012, has blamed cost-of-living pressures for pushing shoppers to less expensive options, including traditional meat.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63260645
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Not surprised, McDonalds has gone beyond Beyond Meat in the US:

https://www.foodbeverageinsider.com...rops-beyond-meat-based-burgers-after-test-run
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Not surprised, McDonalds has gone beyond Beyond Meat in the US:

https://www.foodbeverageinsider.com...rops-beyond-meat-based-burgers-after-test-run
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There's a rumour in my town that if you order a McPlant burger at McDonalds, they won't allow you to have a slice of regular cheese instead of vegan cheese and will go one step further and not even allow you to order a slice of regular cheese as a side order. I find that hard to believe so if anyone here knows the truth, please share it.

Anyway, here's 16 pages of vegetarians complaining about only being able to get vegan alternatives in restaurants these days (which, obviously, most in the chat attribute to restaurants these days being 'too lazy' and most definitely nothing to do with customers getting fussier by the day ) ..

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_b...ally-slightly-annoyed-with-the-mcplant?page=1
 
Well, I'm shocked that more vegans haven't come out against That Vegan Teacher on You Tube.
What started as a promotional channel for veganism soon became a criticism of other You Tube foodies for not including a vegan option, to go onto a passionate - yet ridiculous - crusade to 'destroy' the channels for being animal killers!
What she refuses to accept is that 1) she's doing the vegan cause no good, 2) most people watch her videos to laugh at her, 3) she now sounds utterly insane, and that she's become addicted to the format.
Before, when more informative and reasoned, she had very little viewership (and income), but her rants and outrage attacks draw much more comment/interaction and, thus, income. She's lost the core purpose she had - to try to encourage veganism.
 
Stormkhan said:
Well, I'm shocked that more vegans haven't come out against That Vegan Teacher on You Tube.
What started as a promotional channel for veganism soon became a criticism of other You Tube foodies for not including a vegan option, to go onto a passionate - yet ridiculous - crusade to 'destroy' the channels for being animal killers!
What she refuses to accept is that 1) she's doing the vegan cause no good, 2) most people watch her videos to laugh at her, 3) she now sounds utterly insane, and that she's become addicted to the format.
Before, when more informative and reasoned, she had very little viewership (and income), but her rants and outrage attacks draw much more comment/interaction and, thus, income. She's lost the core purpose she had - to try to encourage veganism.
Click to expand...
An attention seeking vegan? .. whatever next?. I've got bigger fish to fry.
 
I make my own bean sprouts at home. Its easy, cheap, nutritious, good fiber. They are delicious stir fried with beef. Or lamb. Or pork....
 
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