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The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

Schrodinger's Zebra

And a dandelion dies in the wind
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I was thinking about this yesterday and how this, shall we say, 'no-debate' tactic seems to common in certain areas of belief.

It's not only the case that it simply doesn't work, in terms of changing anyone's mind; it literally has the opposite effect. People perceive see this kind of forcing as diminishing their own agency, so oppose it on principle (the backfire effect).

People understand this on an intuitive level - e.g. this is a trope in cartoons, the old 'Loony Tunes' staple of the protagonists arguing back and forth "Yes it is/no it isn't" really fast, then one character flips their answer and this flips the other's.

So in general people understand this approach doesn't actually work. If anything it makes 'conversion' less likely.

So I kinda conclude that, subconsciously at least, that the 'screaming in your face' people are just virtue signalling. It's not really important to them to change minds or views, only to show that they are ethically superior (so are 'entitled' to use force).

Well said.

Mr Zebra and I are both vegetarian (me since birth) but the other day, upon hearing of another utter waste of perfectly good produce poured all over the floor of some supermarket somewhere I remarked that it makes me feel like buying some meat, just to spite them, even though we wouldn't eat it (we'd probably stick it in one of those food bank trolleys near the entrance).
 

Endlessly Amazed

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Jack Sprat and his wife...

I think vegetarian is a great way to eat. I suspect that what works, in terms of health and vigor, depends much on genetics. I have experimented with vegetarianism (eggs, milk, and cheese) for some years, but could not control my blood sugar (low, high, low, high...) and felt bad a lot. I now eat a little meat, fish, chicken, etc., every day and feel much better. Oddly, even with oils, nuts, cheese, eggs, and seeds, I could not feel well in my foray with vegetarianism.
 

Tunn11

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Nope, brussels sprouts, cooked and mashed. Delicious :curt:
How many hours do you cook them? Do you have them still warm in the sandwich or let them cool?

I'm just curious not critical. My uncle used to dip raw carrots in condensed milk and eat them as a snack; they really were disgusting. :)
 

Floyd1

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Well said.

Mr Zebra and I are both vegetarian (me since birth) but the other day, upon hearing of another utter waste of perfectly good produce poured all over the floor of some supermarket somewhere I remarked that it makes me feel like buying some meat, just to spite them, even though we wouldn't eat it (we'd probably stick it in one of those food bank trolleys near the entrance).
Isn't the 'tipping milk away' thing because of the way cows are treated that upsets them?
 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
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But ... if they feel that the cows were mistreated to produce that milk, then surely pouring it away or on the floor is criminal wastage. Demand a reduction in production is surely better.
As far as the suppliers are concerned, they're waiting for a repeat order from the supermarket with glee.
"I'm going to stop you evil men by increasing your sales!"
 

Stormkhan

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There was an activist being interviewed on R4 this morning. Every time she was asked what they thought it achieved or what they accomplished, she completely ignored the question and just rattled off what sounded like a pre-prepared statement on how gas use should stop now, that the 'world' had concluded that using gas as an energy source was poisoning the world etc. The closest she got to the point was she likened their protest actions as morally justified as "breaking into a burning building to rescue a child" or disobeying evil regimes.
 

Tunn11

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I was always told that Brussels sprouts should only be harvested after the plant had been exposed to frost. This changed the chemistry of the plant and made the sprouts taste better. Freezing after harvesting doesn’t have the same effect, in fact it makes them mushier without improving the flavour. The traditional British method of boiling them to a watery paste doesn’t help either.:doh:

Sweet corn tastes very sweet if harvested and cooked immediately, the sugars turning to starch very quickly after harvesting.

So many of the fruits and vegetables that are on offer in the shops are nothing like really fresh ones but they are increasingly difficult to obtain. Don’t be fooled by “Farm shops” many of which buy in produce from elsewhere. How many farms in Southern England grow pineapples?

Many of the varieties grown commercially are selected by ease of harvesting or weight of crop rather than by flavour. Personally I’m sick of greeny orange, rock hard tomatoes.
 

Paul_Exeter

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I was always told that Brussels sprouts should only be harvested after the plant had been exposed to frost. This changed the chemistry of the plant and made the sprouts taste better. Freezing after harvesting doesn’t have the same effect, in fact it makes them mushier without improving the flavour. The traditional British method of boiling them to a watery paste doesn’t help either.:doh:

Sweet corn tastes very sweet if harvested and cooked immediately, the sugars turning to starch very quickly after harvesting.

So many of the fruits and vegetables that are on offer in the shops are nothing like really fresh ones but they are increasingly difficult to obtain. Don’t be fooled by “Farm shops” many of which buy in produce from elsewhere. How many farms in Southern England grow pineapples?

Many of the varieties grown commercially are selected by ease of harvesting or weight of crop rather than by flavour. Personally I’m sick of greeny orange, rock hard tomatoes.
So agree with this. The education provider I work for has established an allotment and planted fruit trees. I recently had some plums and an apple grown without chemical fertilisers or pretty much any interference and the taste was simply wonderful, there were extra layers of flavour not found in supermarket produce. Instantly transported my taste buds back to my youth and the apple tree we had in our garden.

Some farm shops are fantastic, some are essentially 'fronts' for cheap produce to be sold at higher prices. Even reputable farm shops may have to buy in produce they grow themselves in order to keep up a continuous supply and not disappoint customers.
 
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Floyd1

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Many of the varieties grown commercially are selected by ease of harvesting or weight of crop rather than by flavour. Personally I’m sick of greeny orange, rock hard tomatoes.
I keep threatening to not buy tomatoes until 'tomato season' is back - even though I don't buy those terrible supermarket 'packs of 6' which taste like, well nothing really - but even the better quality ones are now pretty tasteless too. It's difficult for me though, because, like eggs and mayo, it doesn't feel right if I haven't got any in and I soon miss them.
 

Floyd1

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Some farm shops are fantastic, some are essentially 'fronts' for cheap produce to be sold at higher prices. Even reputable farm shops may have to buy in produce they grow themselves in order to keep up a continuous supply and not disappoint customers.
Don't you mean;
''Even reputable farm shops may have to buy in produce they don't grow themselves in order to keep up a continuous supply and not disappoint customers'' ?
 

Paul_Exeter

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Don't you mean;
''Even reputable farm shops may have to buy in produce they don't grow themselves in order to keep up a continuous supply and not disappoint customers'' ?
Well, I was sort of trying to say they might grow, for example, apples but this crop is finite and available in the Autumn whereas people want apples in June :)
 

ramonmercado

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I keep threatening to not buy tomatoes until 'tomato season' is back - even though I don't buy those terrible supermarket 'packs of 6' which taste like, well nothing really

Sprinkle a tint amount of salt on them (sliced) and it brings out the flavour.
 

Stormkhan

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Some farm shops are fantastic, some are essentially 'fronts' for cheap produce to be sold at higher prices. Even reputable farm shops may have to buy in produce they grow themselves in order to keep up a continuous supply and not disappoint customers.
One 'farm shop' of my experience is a cheat like this, in Nottingham.
We contacted them to sell some of our products - we were based about four miles from them - but they didn't even reply with a refusal. Instead they stocked a similar, mass produced product from Northern Ireland!
As members of the Federation of Small Business, we attended an event which was to promote 'buying local'. The owner of the farm shop was there, and when we politely questioned this hypocrisy, he merely said that decisions concerning suppliers were made by his wife!
Not all, though, are so dishonest. Our local farm shop now sources everything it sells from either it's own farm (cattle and pigs) or from other independent operations within a 15 miles radius.
 

Coal

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I often do Ramon, but some of them are so bland they're beyond help.
It's possible to ripen them and improve the flavour a little - my mother used an unglazed terracotta egg container (shaped like a chicken), a couple of days in that did the trick.
 

Tunn11

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Being unripe is IMO only part of the problem. Many of the commercial varieties are chosen for size of crop, regularity of fruit, having the most fruit ripe in the shortest time, etc. This is often at the expense of taste.

They are then picked before they are fully ripe and stored cold so getting them to ripen fully is very difficult and they often rot before reaching this stage.

The last proper vegetable show I went to was in Harrogate and the tomatoes were a rich even red across the whole fruit. We managed to buy some at a proper farm shop and they actually lasted longer than the pink things we normally get from supermarkets. They were evenly textured and tasted of tomato!

The Henry Doubleday Research Organisation now renamed:

https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/

Try to keep the old varieties going by distributing seed via subscription to evade regulations about selling seed which would make small sales uneconomic. Many varieties were bred for gardeners so as not to all ripen at once, have better flavour, etc.

I’m unsure on the whole organic bit with regard to taste as I’ve sampled very tasty veg grown hydroponically although organic growing is obviously better for environmental and soil conditions and I guess organic growers take more care of their crop.
 

Floyd1

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Being unripe is IMO only part of the problem. Many of the commercial varieties are chosen for size of crop, regularity of fruit, having the most fruit ripe in the shortest time, etc. This is often at the expense of taste.

They are then picked before they are fully ripe and stored cold so getting them to ripen fully is very difficult and they often rot before reaching this stage.

The last proper vegetable show I went to was in Harrogate and the tomatoes were a rich even red across the whole fruit. We managed to buy some at a proper farm shop and they actually lasted longer than the pink things we normally get from supermarkets. They were evenly textured and tasted of tomato!

The Henry Doubleday Research Organisation now renamed:

https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/

Try to keep the old varieties going by distributing seed via subscription to evade regulations about selling seed which would make small sales uneconomic. Many varieties were bred for gardeners so as not to all ripen at once, have better flavour, etc.

I’m unsure on the whole organic bit with regard to taste as I’ve sampled very tasty veg grown hydroponically although organic growing is obviously better for environmental and soil conditions and I guess organic growers take more care of their crop.
A couple of years ago they were selling Kent Thanet toms here, which were very tasty. Over the summer I've also had some good ones from Lidl and for a reasonable price. But even they've gone tasteless lately.
 
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