The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

[escargot]

Heaven knows how much animal product she's unknowingly eaten there (and other places) over the years.
I did try to tell her - but people never listen!

Yup, it's hard to be sure you haven't been slyly fed animal.

It's called Reubens;

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Reubens/@52.9693605,-2.6847085,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipNu9NMKfiKhjMEpOwKe10c4BRbq698NSRa9W6VA!2e10!3e12!6shttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipNu9NMKfiKhjMEpOwKe10c4BRbq698NSRa9W6VA=w107-h86-k-no!7i2258!8i1806!4m19!1m8!3m7!1s0x25a3b1142c791a9:0xc4f8a0433288257a!2sUnited+Kingdom!3b1!8m2!3d55.378051!4d-3.435973!16zL20vMDdzc2M!3m9!1s0x487a93710d41731d:0x3abfc89d4d1c40b5!5m2!4m1!1i2!8m2!3d52.9693238!4d-2.6846689!10e5!16s/g/11g0khcl1s?entry=ttu

Got it.

Edit - pfft, veggie/vegan my arse.

 

[maximus otter]

Lab-grown meat is proving to be a grotesque misadventure​

Your tasty, wholesome steak is safe for now: the lab-grown meat revolution looks like it’s over.

“It’s going to go down as one of the biggest failures in food history. Business schools will be presenting lessons on lab-grown meat,” says Julian Mellentin, a food consultant whose company has advised alternative protein companies – and told them not to do it.

But in what may be the most shameless pivot that a startup sector has ever made, it now wants you and me, the taxpayers, to bail them out of their folly. And guess what: the Government is sympathetic.

Since the first lab-grown burger was demonstrated more than a decade ago, billions of pounds have been thrown at the technology. It involves extracting cells derived from animal fetuses and cultivating the cells in sterile bioreactors, a process that takes a lot of energy and expense. The resulting slurry is then stretched and shaped to resemble animal tissue, although the backers – who include Bill Gates and Richard Branson – understandably prefer the euphemism “cultivated meat”.

We were told that this innovation would transform how we eat and farm – but this month, leading industry figures admitted the game was all but up. Which is where you come in.

The chief executive of Impossible Foods, which only creates plant-based ersatz meat products, acknowledged that the political mood has changed for everyone. Food security and competitiveness are now back on the agenda, he said. The alternative proteins bubble has burst.

In reality, it never stood a chance. The economics were always stacked against meat bioreactors. The process requires pharmaceutical industry-level lab conditions, very expensive nutrients – which amount to about two thirds of the cost – specialised labour and long timescales. Optimistically, producers would be doing well to hit $63 (£48) per kilo wholesale as a break-even price, one study found. That made the output not remotely competitive with premium meat products.

SCiFi Foods, backed by the band Coldplay and Andreessen Horowitz, closed down this year. Israel’s Aleph Farms has laid off 30pc of its staff. Upside Foods cancelled its plans for its first production bioreactor.

But the real reason is not so much economics as it is lack of demand, expressed in the form of public disgust.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/smallbusiness/ar-AA1semlV

maximus otter

 

[Mythopoeika]

I am not at all surprised.

 

[Fluttermoth]

I'm surprised, I don't understand the disgust for lab-grown meat, at all.
Meat grown in a sterile lab with no suffering =
Meat from a sentient being dying in convulsions in pools of its own urine and faeces =

 

[Yithian]

I am not a vegan or a vegetarian, but the only 'meat' I have eaten for twenty-five years has been fish or seafood.

I am not against the idea of trying lab-grown artificial meat, although I have no particular need or craving for a meat substitute, yet I've never bought any simply because no shop or restaurant I've ever walked into has offered it.

I presume that I am firmly within the target demographic for these products, but despite constant mention in the media, they've never crossed my path.

Actual marketing seems lamentable.

See also: insects. I don't want to try them, but I have seen scores of articles covering every possible angle on how it will help the whole world when we give into the inevitable and enjoy their fine taste, but without ever having gone out of my way to find them, they've never been presented to me for sale.

 

[Floyd]

I'm surprised, I don't understand the disgust for lab-grown meat, at all.
Meat grown in a sterile lab with no suffering =
Meat from a sentient being dying in convulsions in pools of its own urine and faeces =

We don't need lab grown though, there are many plant-based options now.

 

[Floyd]

I am not a vegan or a vegetarian, but the only 'meat' I have eaten for twenty-five years has been fish or seafood.

I am not against the idea of trying lab-grown artificial meat, although I have no particular need or craving for a meat substitute, yet I've never bought any simply because no shop or restaurant I've ever walked into has offered it.

I presume that I am firmly within the target demographic for these products, but despite constant mention in the media, they've never crossed my path.

Actual marketing seems lamentable.

See also: insects. I don't want to try them, but I have seen scores of articles covering every possible angle on how it will help the whole world when we give into the inevitable and enjoy their fine taste, but without ever having gone out of my way to find them, they've never been presented to me for sale.

When you consider that supermarkets even have to make a point of saying 'wonky carrots' (or whatever) just to let the customers know that it's ok to eat un-perfectly shaped veg, I doubt very much that insects will ever catch on.

Not here anyway.

 

[maximus otter]

Meat from a sentient being dying in convulsions in pools of its own urine and faeces…

Oddly, l’ve never seen that.

maximus otter

 

[Kondoru]

My Landlords a sheep farmer.

They live on land unsuitable for arable farming.

They reproduce, and grow themselves.

Sheep also produce wool!

And leather!

Can we better that? I think not. Its sheer arrogance that we think we can better nature. (And sheep, and indeed other animals, are a long way away from sentiency)

Lab grown meat is only really suited to long term space travel.


(Is it just me but is `Impossible Foods` just a totally poor name for a company?)

 

[Paul_Exeter]

I'm surprised, I don't understand the disgust for lab-grown meat, at all.
Meat grown in a sterile lab with no suffering =
Meat from a sentient being dying in convulsions in pools of its own urine and faeces =

Very emotive language and I genuinely respect anyone who is vegetarian but if an animal is properly stunned then it is unconscious and those are just muscle spasms, rather like the rabbit that was chopped in half by the combine harvester that produces vegan foods or the squirrel squashed by the lorry leaving the Impossible Meats factory.

Also trying to set ourselves apart from nature and all its inherent cruelty isn't going so well...

 

[Fluttermoth]

You've all made fair points; I'm not talking about anything other than the disgust for lab grown meat, I genuinely find it very strange.

 

[Mythopoeika]

You've all made fair points; I'm not talking about anything other than the disgust for lab grown meat, I genuinely find it very strange.

I'd consider it only if it did not seem so much like eating a lab-grown cancer (like the Henrietta Lacks culture, which has persisted beyond her death). Also, there is the issue of nutrient/mineral/fibre content not being the same as with 'natural' meat. It could actually be unhealthy to eat.

 

[ramonmercado]

They reproduce, and grow themselves.

They're pod people?

 

[maximus otter]

Harvard doctor says animal products are essential for mental health - in blow to veganism: 'The brain needs meat'​

Dr. Georgia Ede is a Harvard-trained psychiatrist specializing in nutritional and metabolic psychiatry. She has spent 25 years researching the role of diet, particularly ketogenic and carnivore diets, in mental health and brain function, making her an expert on the subject.

According to her research and findings, “the brain needs meat.”

…[D]espite the health halo that vegan diets have been given over the last few years, she claims that giving up meat could be detrimental for mental health.

‘The brain needs meat,’ she [said].

‘We’re used to hearing that meat is dangerous for our total health, including our brain health, and plants are really the best way to nourish and protect our brains.’

‘But the truth of the matter is that it’s actually — that’s upside down and backward.’

Apparently, meat is the only good that contains “every nutrient we need.”

While animal products like eggs, meat, cheese, and Greek yogurt are high in protein, it can also be found in vegan options like lentils and broccoli.

‘But many of the other essential nutrients are much more difficult if not in some cases impossible to obtain from plants,’ Dr Ede said.

She noted that meat is ‘the only food that contains every nutrient we need in its proper form and is also the safest food for our blood sugar and insulin levels.’

A systematic review of 18 studies in 2021 compared meat-eaters with non-meat-eaters. The study involved 160,257 participants aged 11 to 96 (53% of whom were female), including 149,559 meat-eaters and 8,584 meat-avoiders.

Of these, 11 studies showed that meatless diets were associated with worsened mental health. One of these studies found that vegetarians had a 35.2% chance of developing major depression compared to 19.1% in meat-eaters.

Additionally, the likelihood of developing an anxiety disorder in vegetarians was 31.5% compared to 18.4% in meat-eaters.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13197267/americans-mental-health-eat-meat-veganism.html

- and:

https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/living-without-meat-and-staying-healthy-harvard-1710512787.html

maximus otter

 

[Kondoru]

If I was always fussing over what I ate I would be depressed too.

 

[Floyd]

From the 'Full English Breakfast' thread;

@hunck
I tried some Heck sausages recently & didn’t like them all that much - a sort of dense rubbery texture. Of course I still ate them. I wouldn’t rush to buy them again though.

@Mythopoeika
Same experience here. While I was eating them, 'Heck' and 'Feck' were featured words in my vocabulary.

I actually liked these ones the best of any I've had (I think).

The chipolata ones especially.

I understand that they have stopped making vegan produce now though.

 

[Shady]

Harvard doctor says animal products are essential for mental health - in blow to veganism: 'The brain needs meat'​

Dr. Georgia Ede is a Harvard-trained psychiatrist specializing in nutritional and metabolic psychiatry. She has spent 25 years researching the role of diet, particularly ketogenic and carnivore diets, in mental health and brain function, making her an expert on the subject.

According to her research and findings, “the brain needs meat.”

…[D]espite the health halo that vegan diets have been given over the last few years, she claims that giving up meat could be detrimental for mental health.

‘The brain needs meat,’ she [said].

‘We’re used to hearing that meat is dangerous for our total health, including our brain health, and plants are really the best way to nourish and protect our brains.’

‘But the truth of the matter is that it’s actually — that’s upside down and backward.’

Apparently, meat is the only good that contains “every nutrient we need.”

While animal products like eggs, meat, cheese, and Greek yogurt are high in protein, it can also be found in vegan options like lentils and broccoli.

‘But many of the other essential nutrients are much more difficult if not in some cases impossible to obtain from plants,’ Dr Ede said.

She noted that meat is ‘the only food that contains every nutrient we need in its proper form and is also the safest food for our blood sugar and insulin levels.’

A systematic review of 18 studies in 2021 compared meat-eaters with non-meat-eaters. The study involved 160,257 participants aged 11 to 96 (53% of whom were female), including 149,559 meat-eaters and 8,584 meat-avoiders.

Of these, 11 studies showed that meatless diets were associated with worsened mental health. One of these studies found that vegetarians had a 35.2% chance of developing major depression compared to 19.1% in meat-eaters.

Additionally, the likelihood of developing an anxiety disorder in vegetarians was 31.5% compared to 18.4% in meat-eaters.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13197267/americans-mental-health-eat-meat-veganism.html

- and:

https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/living-without-meat-and-staying-healthy-harvard-1710512787.html

maximus otter

What about people, like me, who dont eat any meat because they hate the taste? I suppose there are supplements, but which are the best to replace what is being lost so this doesnt happen?
Edit: ummm could be why my doctor put me on B12 lol

From the 'Full English Breakfast' thread;

@hunck
I tried some Heck sausages recently & didn’t like them all that much - a sort of dense rubbery texture. Of course I still ate them. I wouldn’t rush to buy them again though.

@Mythopoeika
Same experience here. While I was eating them, 'Heck' and 'Feck' were featured words in my vocabulary.

I actually liked these ones the best of any I've had (I think).

The chipolata ones especially.

I understand that they have stopped making vegan produce now though.

Richmond veggie sausages are my favourite.
I also love ASDAs, OMV No steak and gravy slices, delicious, i never heat them up just have them as is, they do a christmas one as well, they are ok but nothing near the no steak ones.

 

[Floyd]

What about people, like me, who dont eat any meat because they hate the taste? I suppose there are supplements, but which are the best to replace what is being lost so this doesnt happen?
Edit: ummm could be why my doctor put me on B12 lol

Richmond veggie sausages are my favourite.
I also love ASDAs, OMV No steak and gravy slices, delicious, i never heat them up just have them as is, they do a christmas one as well, they are ok but nothing near the no steak ones.

I haven't been in ASDA for years unfortunately and the two supermarkets we have are very poor when it comes to vegan/vegetarian products.

I used to like the Richmonds, but I don't have them much now - I find them a bit stodgy.

I don't know if you eat fish, but if you do, get some Tuna steaks (Iceland is probably your best bet), de-frost (marinate if you wish) and fry them gently.
They can (with a bit of soy sauce I find) taste remarkably like steak and are good the next day as well, say cold with a salad.

I have even diced them up for a stew and they really are similar to beef.

Once they're de-frosted I sometimes rinse them, but you don't usually get a 'fishy' taste anyway.

 

[Shady]

I used to love ASDAs tuna salad but i have gone off it recently, dont really like any of the other fish, and i dont like real milk, i have the plant ones, or soya etc, they are ok they are supposed to have B12 in them and the plant yogurts as well, cant see it written on the labels tho.
The doc told me to take 3 mcg a day of B12