The Yuba County Five: 'An American Dyatlov Pass' Incident (1978)

[Kondoru]

Yes, but I like to think we are more immune to easily caught woo bugs than most.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

If perhaps of interest, attached is a clear copy of a full page article (reprinted from Los Angeles Times) dated August 6, 1978, published by the 'The Sunday News'.

The attachment is a pdf file.

 

[Nosmo King]

Fascinating story, thanks to @EnolaGaia for all your dedicated research and to all the other contributers.
A couple of points.
The window of the cabin/trailer was broken and was not covered/repaired when the body was discovered inside, books were scattered around the cabin floor.
I would guess that as the window was the entry point they used to get on, it was most likely the exit point for whoever left last, whilst they (however many) were there, they blocked the broken window with the books, when the guy died the last person pulled the books away from the window leaving them scattered on the floor.
It is mentioned that (upto) 36 cans of ration pack were opened, various posters have said these remained untouched, is that the case? I dont remember reading anywhere whether they were empty or full tins that were found.
I would guess that the guy who was found in the trailer died within a day or two of getting there, and the trailer was abandoned shortly after, that is the only reason i can see for not attempting to light a fire.
The whole situation ended in the death of all 4/5 within 2 days of them abandoning the car in my opinion.

 

[EnolaGaia]

It is mentioned that (upto) 36 cans of ration pack were opened, various posters have said these remained untouched, is that the case? I dont remember reading anywhere whether they were empty or full tins that were found.

According to the Los Angeles newspaper follow-up article (see post #101) 36 of the food cans / packages had been opened, and they had been emptied. The exact identity of the C-ration items wasn't specified, but I agreed with Maximus Otter (at the time) that these were probably meal packs (with multiple separately packaged items inside each container).

These 36 packages did not represent the entire stockpile of canned food items stored inside the cabin-trailer.

I don't recall any description of the cabin-trailer scene specifying that the meal packs' subsidiary packaging was among the stuff littering the cabin-trailer when Weiher's body was discovered.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Regarding the "C-rations" ... The label "C-ration" properly refers to the original pre-packaged meal packs issued to US troops beginning in the 1940s and phased out in favor of the MCI ration format beginning in 1958. However, the label was popularly and widely applied to any pre-packaged military field ration. The MCI ration packs were themselves phased out starting around 1980 / 1981 in favor of the current MRE (Meal Ready to Eat) format.

Here's how the terminology / meal pack format affects our understanding of the Yuba County 5 incident ...

The original C-ration included a single can, sometimes augmented with a second can. The MCI ration typically consisted of 4 cans within a single meal pack (though I've seen photos of MCI packs that seem to only have 3 cans).

The earliest news stories about the discovery of Weiher's body referred to 36 opened / emptied cans in the bunkhouse-trailer as "C-rations." It is extremely unlikely that these were actual 1- or 2-can "C-rations", which had phased out starting 20 years earlier. It is far more likely the cans represented MCI rations (if they were indeed military issue or equivalent products).

If the cans were from MCI rations those 36 cans represented only 9 meals (assuming 4 cans each) and no more than 12 meals (assuming 3 cans each).

If the pre-packaged meals were something other than military issue meal packs it's anybody's guess how many meals they represented.

Because the campground and trailer were maintained by the US Forest Service I suspect they were either military issue rations or equivalent meal packs contracted from a federal supplier.

Finally ... According to family / friends Weiher had something of a "healthy" appetite. He was described as prone to eating anything that happened to be available.

The number of cans was one of the factors cited in claiming Weiher survived for an extended period (some claimed 8 - 13 weeks) after arriving at the trailer. I think this estimate of his survival timespan is wildly excessive.

 

[EnolaGaia]

The second - and most allegedly decisive - factor cited in claiming Weiher remained alive for 8 - 13 weeks was the apparent growth of his beard.

As of 1978 it was still popularly believed that hair, fingernail, and beard could and would continue to grow after death. We now know this isn't exactly true. The appearance of growth results from desiccation of the body and shrinkage of the skin tissues. Weiher's body had lost 40% of its weight by the time it was discovered, and it had undergone some initial decomposition.

If he'd survived for only a week or two the last growth combined with the desiccation / shrinkage effect could account for the state of his beard at the time of discovery.

Bottom Line: The evidence invoked to claim Weiher survived for as long as 8 - 13 weeks doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

[Naughty_Felid]

The second - and most allegedly decisive - factor cited in claiming Weiher remained alive for 8 - 13 weeks was the apparent growth of his beard.

As of 1978 it was still popularly believed that hair, fingernail, and beard could and would continue to grow after death. We now know this isn't exactly true. The appearance of growth results from desiccation of the body and shrinkage of the skin tissues. Weiher's body had lost 40% of its weight by the time it was discovered, and it had undergone some initial decomposition.

If he'd survived for only a week or two the last growth combined with the desiccation / shrinkage effect could account for the state of his beard at the time of discovery.

Bottom Line: The evidence invoked to claim Weiher survived for as long as 8 - 13 weeks doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Not suggesting EG or anyone else was suggesting anything but thought it was important.

Even though some of the party were classed as having an intellectual/Learning disability, (hate both terms), it does not make people incapable of looking after themselves.

A lot of people with an ID are quite able to take care of themselves and make very sound judgments and would realize how serious the situation is.

 

[Nosmo King]

Not suggesting EG or anyone else was suggesting anything but thought it was important.

Even though some of the party were classed as having an intellectual/Learning disability, (hate both terms), it does not make people incapable of looking after themselves.

A lot of people with an ID are quite able to take care of themselves and make very sound judgments and would realize how serious the situation is.

Most of the references to at least 4 of the 5 not being able to cope for any length of time without assistance came from statements made by members of the victims families.

 

[Naughty_Felid]

Most of the references to at least 4 of the 5 not being able to cope for any length of time without assistance came from statements made by members of the victims families.

That's a judgment call that is also steeped into the era.

They went off together in a car to support a basketball team. If none of them were able to be left alone for "any length of time" it suggests they had a decent level of functioning.

Their family did not think there would be an issue, letting them drive off. Everyone must have been fairly confident they'd be fine.

 

[Nosmo King]

That's a judgment call that is also steeped into the era.

They went off together in a car to support a basketball team. If none of them were able to be left alone for "any length of time" it suggests they had a decent level of functioning.

Their family did not think there would be an issue, letting them drive off. Everyone must have been fairly confident they'd be fine.

Im only going by what i have read posted on the thread, im guessing when they say 'any length of tme' they mean days rather than hours, it has been stated that they had made the same journey to watch their favourite basketball team play a number of times, as well as driving to their own basketball training sessions in Sacramento.

 

[marhawkman]

That's a judgment call that is also steeped into the era.

They went off together in a car to support a basketball team. If none of them were able to be left alone for "any length of time" it suggests they had a decent level of functioning.

Their family did not think there would be an issue, letting them drive off. Everyone must have been fairly confident they'd be fine.

I forget which YT video it was, but one analysis in a Youtube vid that I saw pointed out that since they have a variety of personality quirks they often kind of balanced out in that regard. Working together they could do most of what a normal person could do. Which made these situations less of a problem than they would be otherwise since they could help each other along. Which goes back to the "without assistance" thing. That's if they're actually alone. Part of why they commonly went around in that group was to avoid that problem.

 

[Austin Popper]

I've just discovered a most excellent You Tube channel called "The Missing Enigma". It has quickly become one of my favorites. There is a two-part series on the Yuba County boys that has been very well researched, posted this year. It features some information I don't recall seeing before, as well as some interesting analysis and conjecture. The man driving the VW Beetle, who had a heart attack the night of the ill fated trip, that Mr Schons, does not come out looking so good in this treatment. He always did seem really shady to me, and there is some more information here that tends to support that idea.

I see no mention of the weather on the night in question, brought up on page 8 of this thread. I think that is a huge part of the story, for a number of reasons. I'll be sending a link to this thread to Nick, the owner of the YT channel. The channel appears to be completely free of bs, flaky half-assed reporting, wild theories, and all such nonsense so common on the platform, especially in the topics covered. It's so refreshing to find something like that. The fact the channel has been around for a couple of years, I think, without my knowing about it, just reinforces my opinion that the YT algorithms haven't a clue as to what they should be suggesting to me.

 

[marhawkman]

I've just discovered a most excellent You Tube channel called "The Missing Enigma". It has quickly become one of my favorites. There is a two-part series on the Yuba County boys that has been very well researched, posted this year. It features some information I don't recall seeing before, as well as some interesting analysis and conjecture. The man driving the VW Beetle, who had a heart attack the night of the ill fated trip, that Mr Schons, does not come out looking so good in this treatment. He always did seem really shady to me, and there is some more information here that tends to support that idea.

I see no mention of the weather on the night in question, brought up on page 8 of this thread. I think that is a huge part of the story, for a number of reasons. I'll be sending a link to this thread to Nick, the owner of the YT channel. The channel appears to be completely free of bs, flaky half-assed reporting, wild theories, and all such nonsense so common on the platform, especially in the topics covered. It's so refreshing to find something like that. The fact the channel has been around for a couple of years, I think, without my knowing about it, just reinforces my opinion that the YT algorithms haven't a clue as to what they should be suggesting to me.

oh yes.... possibly the best video about it I've ever seen. Really has a LOT of info that... gets left out of the pop-culture take. MissingEnigma does some masterful sleuthing.

Spookiest is the idea that, and this seemingly has a high chance of being true.... is that... The cops in the area actually DID solve it, and did so quite quickly. Because the reasons for it weren't actually hard to find.... before the cops buried it. IE the official narrative is a cover story to keep people from asking the right questions.

I don't personally know what the truth of the matter is. But the official narrative makes no sense at all, and leaves out half the case details.

 

[catseye]

That's a judgment call that is also steeped into the era.

They went off together in a car to support a basketball team. If none of them were able to be left alone for "any length of time" it suggests they had a decent level of functioning.

Their family did not think there would be an issue, letting them drive off. Everyone must have been fairly confident they'd be fine.

I have a friend whose son is autistic. He has a driving licence and often takes himself off away camping for weekends. So he is capable. But he has no understanding of paying bills or running a house and wouldn't know who or how to call someone should (say) a pipe spring a leak or the fridge break down. So, in some ways, he CAN be left alone, and in others, he can't. It depends on the situation, I guess.

 

[marhawkman]

I have a friend whose son is autistic. He has a driving licence and often takes himself off away camping for weekends. So he is capable. But he has no understanding of paying bills or running a house and wouldn't know who or how to call someone should (say) a pipe spring a leak or the fridge break down. So, in some ways, he CAN be left alone, and in others, he can't. It depends on the situation, I guess.

another thing that gets ignored is ages. people often act like they're teens, but when they died they were all in their 20s at least.

 

[catseye]

another thing that gets ignored is ages. people often act like they're teens, but when they died they were all in their 20s at least.

My friend's son is nearly thirty. He still can't live independently, even though he can care for himself perfectly well, he doesn't understand any social interactions and would avoid any involved with people coming to the house. So he would let a house fall to pieces around him and wouldn't pay a single bill.

 

[marhawkman]

My friend's son is nearly thirty. He still can't live independently, even though he can care for himself perfectly well, he doesn't understand any social interactions and would avoid any involved with people coming to the house. So he would let a house fall to pieces around him and wouldn't pay a single bill.

yeah, similar logic here. But the 5 of them had different quirks like that and their quirks tended to balance out. Like 2 of them just couldn't drive. The one who owned a car was OCD about keeping it clean and this incident was the only time anyone could remember where he drove it on a dirt road.

 

[CuriousIdent]

FYI to followers of this thread, Netflix’ ‘Files of the Unexplained’ (which dropped at the start of this month) has a 35 min episode on the Yuba County Five. Probably not going to give any specific answers. But there are interviews with reporters who covered the case at the time, family members of some of the group, and includes archive footage from TV coverage at the time. It would definitely give people a better visual idea of the area we are talking about for this disappearance.

 

[marhawkman]

FYI to followers of this thread, Netflix’ ‘Files of the Unexplained’ (which dropped at the start of this month) has a 35 min episode on the Yuba County Five. Probably not going to give any specific answers. But there are interviews with reporters who covered the case at the time, family members of some of the group, and includes archive footage from TV coverage at the time. It would definitely give people a better visual idea of the area we are talking about for this disappearance.

Saw a few youtube docus and... looks like the "standard" story that people usually retell is probably a cover story the local cops made up to try and hide something. One guess is that it was a drug related incident, but in the sense that drug dealers wanted them dead. Dead men tell no tales and all that...

 

[marhawkman]

 

[CuriousIdent]

Saw a few youtube docus and... looks like the "standard" story that people usually retell is probably a cover story the local cops made up to try and hide something. One guess is that it was a drug related incident, but in the sense that drug dealers wanted them dead. Dead men tell no tales and all that...

Some of their own families have their own theories.

it is discussed that some of the group were alive in a cabin during early police investigations. It is also claimed that one of the fathers even pointed out to police that footprints were leading in that direction, but police felt they could never have made it up that far, and so refused to search that direction. This was the set of buildings bodies were then found in later.

The brother of one of the group genuinely believes Gary Mathias was killed by local hoods before the rest of the group went up there. Dropped in the river from a bridge en route to the forest. And seems to suggest that he feels the group were left confused and bereft, probably got lost in fleeing the scene or similar.

Others swear that they saw Gary Mathias in their bar, after the remains of the others were found. He fled the bar before they could call the police.

His is the only body never recovered.

 

[marhawkman]

Some of their own families have their own theories.

it is discussed that some of the group were alive in a cabin during early police investigations. It is also claimed that one of the fathers even pointed out to police that footprints were leading in that direction, but police felt they could never have made it up that far, and so refused to search that direction. This was the set of buildings bodies were then found in later.

The brother of one of the group genuinely believes Gary Mathias was killed by local hoods before the rest of the group went up there. Dropped in the river from a bridge en route to the forest. And seems to suggest that he feels the group were left confused and bereft, probably got lost in fleeing the scene or similar.

Others swear that they saw Gary Mathias in their bar, after the remains of the others were found. He fled the bar before they could call the police.

His is the only body never recovered.

See, if Gary was dead that'd explain why they ran off in a panic into the woods. It might also explain why they were there at all. they drove onto a back road hoping to lose their pursuers? But got sorta stuck, and the guys chasing them caught up. Hmm... really makes you wonder.

One thing I heard mentioned that sticks out. they left the car on foot when you could easily push it loose, but... it was in a position it needed to be PUSHED loose. which makes sense if you're being chased by people trying to kill you.