Time Or Dimensional Slips

[David Plankton]

Indeed. That is probably the strongest argument that some claimed cases - like the famous Avignon ('avin' you on?) one, are hoaxes. The French currency in 1979 looked nothing like that from the early part of the 1900s;

http://timeslipaccounts.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/well-leave-speed-of-light-on-for-you.html

It's an odd one, but there's not just the coinage to consider. The people in that story will have been wearing late-seventies clothes and hairstyles. And driving a modern (for the seventies) car. Yet as stated in the link, none of this was remarked upon by the other people they encountered.

I came across this account from
http://paranormaldatabase.com/yorkshire/Pages/york.php?pageNum_paradata=0&totalRows_paradata=70

which like all of the other accounts on that site is maddeningly brief with absolutely no references or proof.

Baker and Soldiers

Location: York - Former toy shop just inside Roman Gate
Type: Other
Date / Time: Circa 1978 / 1979
Further Comments: Late at night one female witness approached the toy shop window to look at a teddy bear. At the window she entered a dream-like state - she 'became' a large male baker covered in flour working within the shop, and looking out from the shop she could see Roman soldiers walking past.

But I think it sounds remarkably like a time-slip event. And in this case, had she really gone back in time then the Roman soldiers would have been none the wiser. They would have seen a baker in the place where stood a woman from 1978.
Could the 'people from the past' in the French case in Blessmycottonsocks' link have been seeing things differently to the way that the 'modern' couples saw them?

 

[Carl Grove]

I agree the Brixham case is complex and will never be totally resolved. We don't know exact dates and times and so working out the tides would be impossible. We just have to accept Mr Spence's description as broadly accurate. But now there are more recent mysteries in the same area and that suggests that it is still active. Maybe other people or horses might have wandered over to the new wall and exited the slip the hard way, down into the sea.

Ulalume, thanks so much for all the extra information! The case sounds convincing to me, and it matches quite a few other experiences.

The baker and soldiers case seems more suggestive of some past-life recall rather than a time slip, not necessarily reincarnation, but maybe tapping into the baker's mind in some way.

The point about coinage has been raised a few times. My guess is (having collected coins as a child) that French currency hasn't changed dramatically over the years, up to the Euro, and nor did English currency prior to decimalisation in (I think) 1971. I know less about US currency -- maybe someone can enlighten us about that? In addition, as a part time cashier myself, I know how easy it is to assume that the coin you are offered is correct, providing the size and colour is about right.

The French hotel case is really puzzling. As has been pointed out, even though the visitors must have seemed out of place in terms of dress, nobody seemed to notice. Maybe they just thought to themselves, "More crazy English people!" I think a lot of us would notice someone odd but feel uncomfortable pointing them out, and keep a poker face.

 

[rynner2]

I'm pretty sure the French currency has changed at least once in my lifetime...

The French Franc "was revalued in 1960, with each new franc (NF) being worth 100 old francs. The NF designation was continued for a few years before the currency returned to being simply the franc; the French continued to reference and value items in terms of the old franc (equivalent to the new centime) until the introduction of the euro in 1999 (for accounting purposes) and 2002 (for coins and banknotes)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_franc

 

[Carl Grove]

I'm pretty sure the French currency has changed at least once in my lifetime...

The French Franc "was revalued in 1960, with each new franc (NF) being worth 100 old francs. The NF designation was continued for a few years before the currency returned to being simply the franc; the French continued to reference and value items in terms of the old franc (equivalent to the new centime) until the introduction of the euro in 1999 (for accounting purposes) and 2002 (for coins and banknotes)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_franc

Interesting. I wonder how similar the old and new Francs were to each other?

 

[rynner2]

Interesting. I wonder how similar the old and new Francs were to each other?

It would be sensible to make them distinctively different, because otherwise some hustlers would try to pass off the old ones as the new ones, because the new ones were worth 10 times more.
So the new ones were clearly marked as NF.

 

[Carl Grove]

Makes sense. I still find the witnesses credible, having seen them interviewed on TV. But it seems perhaps to be something more than a simple time slip. Someone doing some kind of other-worldly experiment on them, as seems to be the case in These Roads lead Where (FT forums) and the West Country case of the two sisters.

 

[David Plankton]

The baker and soldiers case seems more suggestive of some past-life recall rather than a time slip, not necessarily reincarnation, but maybe tapping into the baker's mind in some way.

Wouldn't tapping into the mind of someone alive almost two thousand years ago qualify as a time-slip event? I don't think this has anything to do with reincarnation either, it was a one-off occurrence where the witness 'became' the baker in the shop rather than having always had memories associated with being a baker in a past life.

What I was suggesting was that maybe there is some kind of mechanism whereby the 'people in the past' see nothing out of the ordinary, be that strange coins, clothes or futuristic cars. Because if they did, then that would change the past.
This could also mean that people from the future sometimes slip into our present and look just like everyone else, but they are the ones who are acting very strangely.

The closest example I can think of is the Tardis from Doctor Who which used to be able to change it's shape to blend in with it's surroundings before breaking and getting stuck as a police box.

I still find the witnesses credible, having seen them interviewed on TV.

Is this on Youtube by any chance?

 

[rynner2]

I still lean towards the idea that all these Fortean events occur mostly in the mind(s) of the witnesses, perhaps with some input from not-well-understood 'information fields'. The witnesses sound convincing because they do believe these events 'really' happened.

But essentially the events described are irrational and illogical, so cannot be proven by any kind of evidence.
For example in the Crabrock Point case, it would be no help at all if we had the tide tables for 1938, because the tides (and by implication the moon and the sun...) do not behave in the way asserted in the story.

Most of our attempts to construct a framework for Fortean events (Time Slips, premonitions, psychometry, Akashic records, prescience, telepathy, etc, etc) can be reworked in terms of other items from the list. They may sound good at the time of telling, but essentially they amount to hand-waving. The only common factor is that incredibly complex thing, the mind.

But I'm not saying it's all 'hallucination', because I accept the possibility of information inputs from outside the mind. (And that's a big ask, to assume there is something 'outside' the mind - perhaps the whole universe is part of the mind!)

We just don't seem to have the language yet to discuss these subjects meaningfully.

Fascinating, all the same!

 

[Simon]

Entering a shop and searching through superhero comic books on the shelves is a recurring dream of mine which cries out to have psychological or symbolic meaning but I've never pinned it down.

I have the same recurring dream! Its the newsagents opposite my grandparents flat in the 70s/80s/90s (and more recently, another newsagents, which has been gone for years, and is now a bookies!). There are always copies of various IPC and DC Thompson comics, usually a few weeks worth,and that they're also being made today, and that I had no idea!
Its such a brilliant dream!

 

[AgProv]

Me, I just get weird dreams. One involved going back as an adult to the town where I grew up and walking into the local newsagents/toy shop which had been Heaven as a child. I don't want to make a big deal of this, but it was also pretty much a lucid dream: being able to see the old guy who'd run the shop, who'd been kinder to me as a child than I perhaps deserved, and knowing it was a dream because I was talking to somebody who I knew to be long dead and telling him it was something of a privilege to be able to see him, as an adult, and thank him for his kindness, patience and basic human decency to me as a child. We had a long friendly chat, as I recall. It occured to me to try to memorise the date on the newspapers he was selling and to try to recall the headline. I remembered: August 1974. The papers were flimsier and thinner than today and in monochrome: the headline was to do with the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and their attack on Nicosia. (And I'm aware that by some quirk of memory, my mind could have been obliging me with perfect recall of something I saw then, as a child). I was distracted by the display of Airfix models that had enthralled me as a child, although the adult was saying "Seventeen and a half pence? My God, those Airfix kits in the hanging plastic bags with the instruction leaflet stapled to the top go for forty or fifty quid on Ebay..."

Leaving the shop, everything was appropriate for 1974. Womens' fashions, the predominance of "American Tan" tights, for instance; the cars, right for 1974 but utterly archaic now; the street scene, the shop names, the old-fashioned frontage of the Nat West bank on the corner of Houldsworth Square.... I had a feeling this was "real" and I was drifting through it, my dream having taken me back to the real world as it was forty-odd years ago. Then there was a moment of panic when I realised if I turned the corner, I'd see my old family home, maybe encounter the twelve-year-old me, and (I really freaked out here) I'd see my mother as she was in 1974. She's been dead since 1999: this was one encounter I was not emotionally ready for. That emotional flood shook me out of it and I was suddenly in a true dream, less vivid, less self-awareness, with fantastic elements creeping in. But I remembered when I woke up.... and yup, the headlines in the papers were right for August 1974.

Similar dreams involve going back to Manchester as it would have been when my father was younger, in the late 1950's, and a growing feeling I was in his head somehow, seeing 1950's Manchester through his eyes. Again the same reality and solidity, and the knowledge this was somehow more "real" - seeing a familiar location through the distorting prism of time and a gap of five or six decades. The air had a yellow tinge to it and stank of smoke and coal-fires, for one thing. People were more drably dressed. It was like walking through the set of an Ealing movie. Everybody smoked. (and how often do we smell things in dreams?) And the people you passed - less well groomed, more BO, even from under layers of clothes. The oddest dream of all I'll hold back on, as it was very emotional but involved my parents and family.

i had one that seemed to be around my grandfather or great-grandfather, walking the canal side in Todmorden, Lancashire. With the woman, then a girl, who might have become my (great) grandmother. Very early 1930's, I suspected, or earlier.

So my point of wondering is - can timeslips happen down your own personal timeline, especially where there's an emotional link? The fifty-two year old me piggybacked back to 1974, seeing my twelve-year-old world through adult eyes. I saw the 1950's as my father would have seen them every day. I saw Todmorden as it might have been in the 1930's or earlier: again family members were involved. Always with a coherence and detail and solidity to them that dreams normally lack. So - can you have a timeslip experience while asleep and with your physical body going nowhere? I suspect this is a possibility.

 

[special_farces]

Dangerous Walk on the Cliffs

this account mentions a cave extending under Crabrock Point it would be interesting to find out if it still exists - and a Trig Point on the hillside nearby, which isn't shown on the Bing version of the current OS map.

Busy week so just got round to this - always up for a map challenge.

OS Maps online (currently offering free 7 day trial) shows only trig points above Croftland @179 and above Southdown Farm @150

But the revised OS 6 inch map shows a trig to the SW of Crabrock Point @827 - it looks like a good steady climb along the SW Coast Path, matching the reports description (also on the much earlier map).

It's interesting that the simple sketch in the report exaggerates the depth of the cut along the shore, but it is a rough sketch. I'm also wondering if the 'rocks' marked are the Cod Rocks, which look like they are covered at high tide, or the closer shoreline shoal at SX 92362 52860. Also I can't find Sorrowmead Park - but perhaps it is / was a property in Southdown?

As for the 'erosion' between the Tuesday and Wednesday's walk and then experienced dramatically on the Thursday, I can't really say how long it would take the cliff to erode the distance shown on the sketch map (but it's an odds on bet the rates of erosion have been worked out). The OS geological survey map (sheet 350) show's uniform silt and mud stones (as described in the account I think) from the headland to the trig point, although there is fault just to the south running inland. On the sketch in the report the dashed line marking the 'old' cliff edge does not link to the tip of Crabrock Point, or trace an extension of the headland but neatly abuts the cave's south entrance, which I find a bit odd but that's probably just me.

Overall I think the report is interesting for two reasons. First the mundane nature of it. Contemporary field and shoreline *ping* old field and shoreline... with bonus new built walls (about the time of the enclosure's?) thrown in. Secondly, that seemingly common experience of silence, oppression and pan-ic mentioned in many accounts of 'otherness'.

Finally - Woodhuish Lane - what a great name.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

"occured to me to try to memorise the date on the newspapers he was selling and to try to recall the headline. "

Which reminded me of the final episode of the enjoyable Fortean-themed Houdini and Doyle TV series. There were several sequences where a character was unsure whether they were dreaming or not. Apparently, a sure fire way to tell is to attempt to read something, as it is impossible to read in a dream. I would like to put this to the test and will make a determined effort to read something next time I experience a lucid dream.

 

[rynner2]

Dangerous Walk on the Cliffs

Busy week so just got round to this - always up for a map challenge.

OS Maps online (currently offering free 7 day trial) shows only trig points above Croftland @179 and above Southdown Farm @150

But the revised OS 6 inch map shows a trig to the SW of Crabrock Point @827 - it looks like a good steady climb along the SW Coast Path, matching the reports description (also on the much earlier map).

My version does show the trig points @179 and above Southdown Farm, but the latter is shown as @147, not @150!

I still can't locate the one SW of Crabrock Point @827, but that seems out of proportion to the rest of the scenery - does that 6" map show heights in feet?

 

[gattino]

Apparently, a sure fire way to tell is to attempt to read something, as it is impossible to read in a dream. I would like to put this to the test and will make a determined effort to read something next time I experience a lucid dream.

I've heard/read this many times too...but have found its complete nonsense. I don't know if lucid dreams are different as I've never had one, but I've definitely read and recalled things in dreams.

 

[gattino]

I have the same recurring dream! Its the newsagents opposite my grandparents flat in the 70s/80s/90s (and more recently, another newsagents, which has been gone for years, and is now a bookies!). There are always copies of various IPC and DC Thompson comics, usually a few weeks worth,and that they're also being made today, and that I had no idea!
Its such a brilliant dream!

Interesting...with mine there's no exact shop, it can be anything from a random bookshop to a supermarket, but always I'm browsing - perhaps searching - through superhero titles. The first several times after I noticed it was recurring I looked for more specific links. At first it seemed to be that the titles were improbable cross-overs, say a DC character in the same title as a Marvel one. But after a while that wasn't necessarily the theme at all. A few times the characters have been in the dream story rather than mere comics about them. But by and large its shop, comics on shelves, searching through them....
When, as I say, it had been noted to friends online 3 or 4 times I did hit upon an idea and went back to see what my facebook statuses had been on the day in which I had reported the dream. I found 3 where I could do that and one did emerge...on each occasion I was evidently pissed off or disappointed in some way with a particular on-off friend. This, for a while at least, appeared to be the trigger for these dreams...and maybe the mismatched characters theme makes sense in that context..but sadly for such neatness the dream has been had a number of times since where I can make no such connection.

 

[Carl Grove]

Wouldn't tapping into the mind of someone alive almost two thousand years ago qualify as a time-slip event? I don't think this has anything to do with reincarnation either, it was a one-off occurrence where the witness 'became' the baker in the shop rather than having always had memories associated with being a baker in a past life.

What I was suggesting was that maybe there is some kind of mechanism whereby the 'people in the past' see nothing out of the ordinary, be that strange coins, clothes or futuristic cars. Because if they did, then that would change the past.
This could also mean that people from the future sometimes slip into our present and look just like everyone else, but they are the ones who are acting very strangely.

The closest example I can think of is the Tardis from Doctor Who which used to be able to change it's shape to blend in with it's surroundings before breaking and getting stuck as a police box.



Is this on Youtube by any chance?

Well, it's a matter of definition, and I made a point of disqualifying identification with the minds of people in the past because it seems to be a different phenomenon from the regular time slip. Obviously there are going to be incidents which are harder to distinguish on this basis, but nine times out of ten the distinction can be made. I don't find any problem with changing the past as a consequence of doing something in a time slip -- if some people can accomplish this at a mental level, as in the H.B.M. Dervish account that I quoted, then why not in a physical time slip? So I don't think the visitors need to be disguised during a time slip. People ordinarily see what they expect to see, and unless there was a big difference in the time gap and a correspondence of clothing fashions, cars, etc., likely it wouldn't be registered. This may be why people who go back in a short term slip sometimes take a while to notice that anything out of the ordinary has happened.

 

[Carl Grove]

I still lean towards the idea that all these Fortean events occur mostly in the mind(s) of the witnesses, perhaps with some input from not-well-understood 'information fields'. The witnesses sound convincing because they do believe these events 'really' happened.

But essentially the events described are irrational and illogical, so cannot be proven by any kind of evidence.
For example in the Crabrock Point case, it would be no help at all if we had the tide tables for 1938, because the tides (and by implication the moon and the sun...) do not behave in the way asserted in the story.

Most of our attempts to construct a framework for Fortean events (Time Slips, premonitions, psychometry, Akashic records, prescience, telepathy, etc, etc) can be reworked in terms of other items from the list. They may sound good at the time of telling, but essentially they amount to hand-waving. The only common factor is that incredibly complex thing, the mind.

But I'm not saying it's all 'hallucination', because I accept the possibility of information inputs from outside the mind. (And that's a big ask, to assume there is something 'outside' the mind - perhaps the whole universe is part of the mind!)

We just don't seem to have the language yet to discuss these subjects meaningfully.

Fascinating, all the same!

Before starting this research, I would also have favoured a "mental" approach, but the large number of Type 4 cases (involving social, verbal, and physical interactions) have made me take physical time travel as a working hypothesis. MacKenzie took a similar line to you, but carefully avoided quoting cases where physicality was implied. Let me take a well known case, "One thing Leeds to another," a British case that was first aired on an early time slip site. There you have a sequence of events that seemed absurd and frightening to the witnesses, but if you analyse it carefully with physical time slip in mind, it all makes perfect sense.

Briefly two sisters were going into a newsagents in Leeds to buy cigarettes. Sister A was ahead of sister B. As B glanced ahead she saw that A was going to walk into a lady standing near the door in the crowded shop, viewing the magazine rack. She called "Mind that woman," but it was too late, and sister A walked through the woman, who then faded away. "What woman?" asked A. B said," I think that was a spirit", but at that moment they both realised that the shop was now empty; the lights were off and it was suddenly cold, like a winter morning, not a summer day. They decided to leave. Outside they tried to make sense of it for a minute then went back in. It was now crowded and busy. Everything seemed normal, but when they went to buy their cigarettes, the lady behind the counter seemed terrified of them. They asked where all the people had come from, and she didn't reply. They then left, and so, it seems, did the shop assistant, because they never saw her again.

Let's say sister A was the sensitive who triggered the slip. As she passed into another time she couldn't see the woman at the magazines, and passed through the space she was occupying in the present. Sister B was ideally placed to observe this. They then exited the shop, then re-entered. It doesn't take much deduction to figure out that the lady at the till had seen Sister A enter the shop, pass through the woman by the door, and then fade away; this was why she was so freaked out when both the sisters came in a bit later -- she thought they were spirits!

I have contacted the Leeds paranormal group but they don't have any info on it, which means little of course, as once they had posted the account on the net I suppose the witnesses thought they had reported it. If anyone seeing this knows anything about the case, please tell us!

 

[Carl Grove]

Excellent analysis

Dangerous Walk on the Cliffs



Busy week so just got round to this - always up for a map challenge.

OS Maps online (currently offering free 7 day trial) shows only trig points above Croftland @179 and above Southdown Farm @150

But the revised OS 6 inch map shows a trig to the SW of Crabrock Point @827 - it looks like a good steady climb along the SW Coast Path, matching the reports description (also on the much earlier map).

It's interesting that the simple sketch in the report exaggerates the depth of the cut along the shore, but it is a rough sketch. I'm also wondering if the 'rocks' marked are the Cod Rocks, which look like they are covered at high tide, or the closer shoreline shoal at SX 92362 52860. Also I can't find Sorrowmead Park - but perhaps it is / was a property in Southdown?

As for the 'erosion' between the Tuesday and Wednesday's walk and then experienced dramatically on the Thursday, I can't really say how long it would take the cliff to erode the distance shown on the sketch map (but it's an odds on bet the rates of erosion have been worked out). The OS geological survey map (sheet 350) show's uniform silt and mud stones (as described in the account I think) from the headland to the trig point, although there is fault just to the south running inland. On the sketch in the report the dashed line marking the 'old' cliff edge does not link to the tip of Crabrock Point, or trace an extension of the headland but neatly abuts the cave's south entrance, which I find a bit odd but that's probably just me.

Overall I think the report is interesting for two reasons. First the mundane nature of it. Contemporary field and shoreline *ping* old field and shoreline... with bonus new built walls (about the time of the enclosure's?) thrown in. Secondly, that seemingly common experience of silence, oppression and pan-ic mentioned in many accounts of 'otherness'.

Finally - Woodhuish Lane - what a great name.

Excellent analysis, and I noticed the fault line which you say is just south of the site. If earth energies are connected with time slips, it might be worth checking the geology of time slip locations. I wonder if there is any interesting geology in Liverpool?

 

[special_farces]

My version does show the trig points @179 and above Southdown Farm, but the latter is shown as @147, not @150!

Sorry my mistake. The trig above Southdown Farm is @147, I read the adjacent spot height. To make things worse, I reckon the trig (on the 6" map) SW of Crabrock Point is of course @327 - amazing what you can read when you zoom in! All this proves I've got to stop contributing to threads late at night .

I think those 6" maps published in the 1930's displayed trig points, spot heights and contours in feet, although the move to metric was already underway.

I wonder if there is any interesting geology in Liverpool?

Looking at the solid survey (sheet 96) the bedrock below the city centre is sandstone. Several adjacent faults trend north south. No sign of heavy mineralization, intrusive or volcanic material (I think the nearest is over in north Wales and the Lakes). Specifically, Lower Triassic sandstones and pebble beds (I think these are the rocks you see in the rail cutting leading into Lime Street Station) are thrown against slightly younger hard sandstones. Both these were formed in desserts.

In some places the bedrock is near the surface, in others it's covered by glacial deposits up to 30m.

The bedrock sits at the top of a succession of older sandstones, coal measures, Bowland Shale (fracking hell!), Craven Limestones down to old Silurian mudstones at over 2Km depth.

The rocks forming Crabrock are also sedimentary but formed in deep water, and they are much older.

Have timeslip reports from Liverpool been plotted onto an OS map? I'd have a look, but at this time of night I'd probably search for 'timeplots from Liverpool slipped onto a map'

 

[gattino]

More prosaically I've had the experience of going down a familiar city centre road at night for the first time and finding it filled with exotic and noisy nightlife I had no idea was there, and which there was no trace of by day...how could clubs and dancing girls turn into bookshops and cafes? The solution of course is that the night time road was running parallel to the more familiar daytime one and I wasn't paying sufficient attention to be clear which street I was on.

I'm quoting myself there but its just occurred to me to mention for its Fortean neatness, that the road I thought I had gone down at night (but was actually going down one parallel to) was Bold Street in Liverpool, the alleged centre of so many time slip reports.

But I repeat there was nothing spooky in this instance.

I might also add these frequent references to liverpool as a hot spot for time slips is really not known here outside of Tom Slemen's dubious columns and endless books... I've lived here all my life and been down that road thousands of times, and not only have I failed to go back in time - which is fair enough - but I've never had any reason to believe many if any of the locals have heard of such a reputation.

I don't know Tom Slemen but the reason I sound instinctively dismissive of him is that his stories are always sourceless and all written in the same improbable fashion...they always involve reporting the internal thoughts and dialogue of people from decades or centuries past, marking his tales as..well..tales. He used to be a regular guest on local radio reading out some of these accounts, which have also appeared in various local free papers, and the host Billy Butler would encourage people to contact him with their stories with the soothing boast that Tom wasn't like others, he won't question anythng you say. I'm not being facetious, he would say that every week. The implication was obviously intended to be he won't belittle you or cast doubt, but I never saw it as very reassuring about his judgement or standards of investigation.....

 

[special_farces]

Spent morning messing about with the various OS maps of area around Crabrock Point, and having decided I should get on with some work... I looked for photos of the area instead.

So this is a closer view of the point, you get an idea of the height of the cliff. Have not found a encompassing photo looking north - nearly all online photos I've found so far are taken looking south. Here is one of them, a view looking south from up above Southdown Cliff. Will look on Google Earth (which has user added photos) later.

 

[rynner2]

Spent morning messing about with the various OS maps of area around Crabrock Point, and having decided I should get on with some work... I looked for photos of the area instead.

So this is a closer view of the point, you get an idea of the height of the cliff. Have not found a encompassing photo looking north - nearly all online photos I've found so far are taken looking south. Here is one of them, a view looking south from up above Southdown Cliff. Will look on Google Earth (which has user added photos) later.

Your second photo cannot be hot-linked, apparently.

Did you see my post about photos upthread?

http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/time-or-dimensional-slips.13755/page-10#post-1587401

 

[rynner2]

I had some minor time slips yesterday (or were they deja-vus?)

I'd been watching the cup final on TV, but when it got to 1 - 1 I thought I'd catch up on the result later. But back home on the computer I found the beeb was showing the game live via the internet, so I watched it anyway!

But there was a slight glitch in the technology - now and again, after a few seconds of action, that same few seconds were immediately shown again. At first I thought this was some kind of action replay, but there were no new comments, and often the 'action' was too uninteresting to be worth a replay anyway! But somehow I was getting 'double time'!

 

[Mythopoeika]

I had some minor time slips yesterday (or were they deja-vus?)

I'd been watching the cup final on TV, but when it got to 1 - 1 I thought I'd catch up on the result later. But back home on the computer I found the beeb was showing the game live via the internet, so I watched it anyway!

But there was a slight glitch in the technology - now and again, after a few seconds of action, that same few seconds were immediately shown again. At first I thought this was some kind of action replay, but there were no new comments, and often the 'action' was too uninteresting to be worth a replay anyway! But somehow I was getting 'double time'!

Value for money.

 

[Carl Grove]

Sorry my mistake. The trig above Southdown Farm is @147, I read the adjacent spot height. To make things worse, I reckon the trig (on the 6" map) SW of Crabrock Point is of course @327 - amazing what you can read when you zoom in! All this proves I've got to stop contributing to threads late at night .

I think those 6" maps published in the 1930's displayed trig points, spot heights and contours in feet, although the move to metric was already underway.



Looking at the solid survey (sheet 96) the bedrock below the city centre is sandstone. Several adjacent faults trend north south. No sign of heavy mineralization, intrusive or volcanic material (I think the nearest is over in north Wales and the Lakes). Specifically, Lower Triassic sandstones and pebble beds (I think these are the rocks you see in the rail cutting leading into Lime Street Station) are thrown against slightly younger hard sandstones. Both these were formed in desserts.

In some places the bedrock is near the surface, in others it's covered by glacial deposits up to 30m.

The bedrock sits at the top of a succession of older sandstones, coal measures, Bowland Shale (fracking hell!), Craven Limestones down to old Silurian mudstones at over 2Km depth.

The rocks forming Crabrock are also sedimentary but formed in deep water, and they are much older.

Have timeslip reports from Liverpool been plotted onto an OS map? I'd have a look, but at this time of night I'd probably search for 'timeplots from Liverpool slipped onto a map'

I'll check through the cases I have written onto record cards over the next few days and see if I can get a map together for you. Most of the dramatic cases are in the city centre, around the Bold Street area, although some have been reported further out. Sandstone often figures in areas with strange phenomena, and of course fault lines.

 

[Carl Grove]

I'm quoting myself there but its just occurred to me to mention for its Fortean neatness, that the road I thought I had gone down at night (but was actually going down one parallel to) was Bold Street in Liverpool, the alleged centre of so many time slip reports.

But I repeat there was nothing spooky in this instance.

I might also add these frequent references to liverpool as a hot spot for time slips is really not known here outside of Tom Slemen's dubious columns and endless books... I've lived here all my life and been down that road thousands of times, and not only have I failed to go back in time - which is fair enough - but I've never had any reason to believe many if any of the locals have heard of such a reputation.

I don't know Tom Slemen but the reason I sound instinctively dismissive of him is that his stories are always sourceless and all written in the same improbable fashion...they always involve reporting the internal thoughts and dialogue of people from decades or centuries past, marking his tales as..well..tales. He used to be a regular guest on local radio reading out some of these accounts, which have also appeared in various local free papers, and the host Billy Butler would encourage people to contact him with their stories with the soothing boast that Tom wasn't like others, he won't question anythng you say. I'm not being facetious, he would say that every week. The implication was obviously intended to be he won't belittle you or cast doubt, but I never saw it as very reassuring about his judgement or standards of investigation.....

Obviously Slemen is a professional writer, and he presents the stories very slickly, which may be a factor in why people have been dismissive of his work. However, there are plenty of other cases -- a local group say they have 100 cases in liverpool on file, and I have picked up many more posted by individual witnesses on the net. They may not be everyday occurrences there, but the numbers are large compared with any other active site in the world (I only compared Rougham with a few of these --Pennines, Skinwalker Ranch, and the Bermuda Triangle mainly -- and it is obvious that time slips only form a tiny percentage of the events in those places). So Liverpool is still the biggest producer of time slip cases anywhere, which needs to be explained.

 

[special_farces]

Your second photo cannot be hot-linked, apparently.

Think I've fixed it - working on my Mac laptop now. It's similar the shot in your link looking south to the cottages and showing all the point:

Did you see my post about photos upthread?

I had seen that thanks, and was wondering if there was a shot from the beach looking north to the point. I did not find anything on Google Earth - lots of shots from the north, few from the south.

I'll check through the cases I have written onto record cards over the next few days and see if I can get a map together for you.

Excellent. I'd be happy to help plot locations onto a OS map, if you want to send me a list of locations. Plain text or .csv is fine. I use various mapping and graphic tools in the day job. Otherwise look forward to seeing more.

 

[rynner2]

XXX

 

[Mythopoeika]

XXX

XXXX is better.

 

[JamesWhitehead]

Obviously Slemen is a professional writer

Obvious to whom?