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T'Owd Man & Other Caving / Potholing / Spelunking Ghosts

Was chatting recently with my son Escet and the subject of Nutty Putty came up.

He said 'Oh yeah, I know ALL about THAT! A mate is a caver from Utah and he heard about the John Jones incident right away and followed the rescue attempt.
He explained it to me as it was happening and said 'This is really serious and it doesn't look like they'll get him out alive.''

The Utah caver friend may have known some of the rescuers. Escet's paternal uncles are cavers so I expect he told them about it at the time.
I bet they didn't tell their wives though!
 
Ghost hunt carried out last year at Poole's Cavern, Buxton:


Not a huge amount happens - couple of "orbs", apparent contact with a German spirit and a blast of warm air (thought ghosts were meant to turn the temperature down?).
Best bit is where they spook themselves towards the end!
 
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Don't know of any ghost stories asociated with cave diving, but that has to be the most dangerous of all. Martyn Farr's "The darkness beckons" is old but worth a read. Diving often kicks up the silt in the streamway leading to zero visibility. Wookey Hole in Somerset (meant to be haunted) now requires divers to de compress in the furthest caves. The attraction is finding new "dry" chambers and you can now visit some at Wooky that previously could only be reached by diving. A flavour of the experience in this:
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/watch-video-amazing-70m-cave-2048877
Keld head was the site of the "dead man's handshake" when Jochen Hasenmayer became trapped and co diver Geof Yeadon was able to shake his hand through a gap in the rock, believing he was shaking a dead man's hand. However Hasenmayer made it out; some don't and divers have gone in to retrieve bodies - shudder.
 
Tunn11 said:
Don't know of any ghost stories asociated with cave diving, but that has to be the most dangerous of all. Martyn Farr's "The darkness beckons" is old but worth a read. Diving often kicks up the silt in the streamway leading to zero visibility. Wookey Hole in Somerset (meant to be haunted) now requires divers to de compress in the furthest caves. The attraction is finding new "dry" chambers and you can now visit some at Wooky that previously could only be reached by diving. A flavour of the experience in this:
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/watch-video-amazing-70m-cave-2048877
Keld head was the site of the "dead man's handshake" when Jochen Hasenmayer became trapped and co diver Geof Yeadon was able to shake his hand through a gap in the rock, believing he was shaking a dead man's hand. However Hasenmayer made it out; some don't and divers have gone in to retrieve bodies - shudder.
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Mr Ballen on YouTube has lots of terrifying cave-diving stories. One concerns a diver who was killed while exploring, whose friend promised the dead man's parents he would retrieve the body.

The second diver was sadly killed in the attempt. When his body was raised from the depths, it was entangled with the corpse of the first. The promise was fulfilled.
 
When I first went to Wookey as a young 'un Chamber 3 IIRC was the limit of the tourist caves and a diver had fixed a light in chamber 4 to show the route the divers took. When they turned the lights out you could see the glow under the water. When we went back some years ago on a cold winter's day we were the only tourists and the guide asked if we'd been before, when I said yes she replied:
"Well the cave won't have changed."
"No", I replied, feeling old: "but you couldn't get to chamber 9 when I was here unless you had diving gear." In fact divers have died en route to chamber 9 which is now accessible via a tunnel and walkway.

More recently this has been extended to chamber 20. There was something on TV a while back, around the time the chamber 20 was opened about a security guard fleeing the site saying it was haunted I can't remember details but I think it was the new "tourist" extension.

The ambition of the divers was to link the Wookey system with Swildon's hole (Quiet at the back, it's another cave system) as dye poured in the water there comes out at Wookey; but so far no luck as the sumps get deeper and seem to be blocked with silt.

Considering the risks, the isolation and the fatalities I wonder that there aren't more spooky stories from this group but I guess if you are in a small, flooded space with visibility at zero you won't see or hear much.
 
Wasn’t there a ghost/body of a bloke on a wreck somewhere that divers kept seeing in different locations on the ship, some said he followed them round but others said it was currents moving him about but this was on a sunken ship not in a cave, they had a name for him but can’t remember it.
 
RaM said:
Wasn’t there a ghost/body of a bloke on a wreck somewhere that divers kept seeing in different locations on the ship, some said he followed them round but others said it was currents moving him about but this was on a sunken ship not in a cave, they had a name for him but can’t remember it.
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I dunno but I'm pretty sure he'll be sitting on the end of my bed at 3am.
 
Tunn11 said:
The attraction is finding new "dry" chambers and you can now visit some at Wooky that previously could only be reached by diving.
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Tunn11 said:
"but you couldn't get to chamber 9 when I was here unless you had diving gear." In fact divers have died en route to chamber 9 which is now accessible via a tunnel and walkway.
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Are the dry access routes and chambers due to drilled tunnels, or is the water level declining?
 
IbisNibs said:
Are the dry access routes and chambers due to drilled tunnels, or is the water level declining?
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Drilled tunnels and walkways above other chambers where the floor is under water - at least the bit I went to. Probably a similar arrangement for the newest access as well. AFAIK there are sumps and flooded passages where everything is submerged and chambers and passages where there is no dry floor, the latter have a walkway built above water level. I don't think the water level is declining and like most river systems in caves a good downfall in the hills increases the flow.

Maps in this article, (pre opening of chamber 20) give an idea of the layout: https://www.sump4.com/publications/book010.pdf

Chamber 20 here: https://www.wookey.co.uk/chamber-20/

It seems to have got very "touristy" since I last went, but is fascinating as the "home of British cave diving."
 
An almost too-good-to-be-true ghostly encounter from last year in Carnglaze Caverns, Cornwall.

A ghostly voice warns the couple to get out, followed by a plume of mist drifting across the video.

What do you reckon? Genuine spooks or the acoustic properties of the cave making dripping water sound like a voice and an exhalation of the tourists' warm breath causing the mist?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/ghost-hunters-claim-capture-spirit-24436227
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
What do you reckon? Genuine spooks or the acoustic properties of the cave making dripping water sound like a voice and an exhalation of the tourists' warm breath causing the mist?
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Neither of those explain the third clip, though, of the small white object appearing to run from bottom right, fading out as it approaches the centre of the image. That certainly does appear too good to be true - the "legs" seem to be over-egging (over-legging?) the pudding.

I also find myself conflicted over the statement that the couple are self-confessed paranormal investigators. On the one hand, this might enable them to notice details other people would overlook. On the other hand, it might prime them to interpret mundane phenomena as paranormal, if not actually actively fake material in the attempt to convince other people, or boost their own status within the paranormal community.
 
RaM said:
Wasn’t there a ghost/body of a bloke on a wreck somewhere that divers kept seeing in different locations on the ship, some said he followed them round but others said it was currents moving him about but this was on a sunken ship not in a cave, they had a name for him but can’t remember it.
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I'm not sure if this is the shipwrecked sailor you were thinking of, but it's pretty creepy.
http://weekinweird.com/2016/11/27/old-whitey-preserved-corpse-kamloops/
 
There is a city called Kamloops in British Columbia, the Ship mentioned, and that's about it.
I had thought the name came from some Explorer, but it seems it's a Native word, so I guess it isn't as common as I thought.

Can I ask where else you've heard it?
 
That's the one, if true it must unnerve a few, the last thing you want at depth
and inside a hull is a shock, and you don't want panic setting in.
 
Krepostnoi said:
It came up in the context of unmarked graves at state-run residential schools for First Nations children. See post 21993 in this thread, and subsequent responses.
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I see. That would be the other reference I found, but since it was associated with the city name, I didn't mention it.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
An almost too-good-to-be-true ghostly encounter from last year in Carnglaze Caverns, Cornwall.

A ghostly voice warns the couple to get out, followed by a plume of mist drifting across the video.

What do you reckon? Genuine spooks or the acoustic properties of the cave making dripping water sound like a voice and an exhalation of the tourists' warm breath causing the mist?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/ghost-hunters-claim-capture-spi
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There is something strange looking about the mist, as if it is being reflected off glass. But yes it could easily just be someone's breath.

Krepostnoi said:
Neither of those explain the third clip, though, of the small white object appearing to run from bottom right, fading out as it approaches the centre of the image. That certainly does appear too good to be true - the "legs" seem to be over-egging (over-legging?) the pudding.
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Yes, I am not sure I believe in the running baby!
 
Account of the 2017 exploration of Crank Caverns (St. Helens, Merseyside), allegedly haunted by witches, malign dwarfs and cannibals:

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https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/crank-caverns-crank-november-2017.110639/
 
Dolaucothi Gold Mine in Carmarthenshire, Wales, dates from the Roman era and, unsurprisingly, has a ghost tale or two.

The National Trust website has an account of the tragic demise of miner Ned Lyonns.
One winter's day back in the 1930s, Lyonns had been lowered into a deep ore pass to clear an obstruction.
Working alone, some distance from any other workers, it appears that his light source (probably a candle or open-wick lamp) failed and panic must have set in. It is thought that he attempted to climb out of the pit, but slipped on some loose rubble and fell to his death.
When the drams (low mining wagon or cart) were pulled out, one of Lyonns' shoes was found, but his body was never recovered.
According to the NT account "To this day, some say they still hear his groans for help echo through the gold mine."

Guided tours of the mine are available at £10 for adults.
Keep an ear open for Ned Lyonns' plaintive cries for help that never came.

1930s.png


https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/dolaucothi/features/visiting-dolaucothi

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/the-story-of-ned-lyonnss-ghost-at-dolaucothi-gold-mines
 
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Spookdaddy said:
Being brought up in the Peak District, potholing and climbing were part of the culture - the former being a part I avoided like the plague, it has to be said. (There is in fact a quite considerable cave actually within the bounds of the town I grew up in, and less than a two minute walk from my old secondary school.)

The Neil Moss incident, which happened just up the road from where I'm sitting now, is still talked about. It happened at Peak Cavern - the infamous Devil's Arse - and was before my time, but a friend's father was involved as a young volunteer, and most of the cavers and mountain rescue types around us when I was growing up had been involved, as were Mines Research (more accurately Safety in Mines Research) another local institution, which later became the HSE Laboratory.


He's still in there, buried under cave rubble that was piled on top of the shaft after his death. My childhood doctor (lovely man - proper old-school, but without the associated arrogance) was himself an experienced outdoorsman and signed off on the death - later stating that it was the only time he ever declared a death without inspecting the body. It was an incredibly traumatic experience for all involved - there have always been rumours that the poor guy was euthanised, but I suspect the volunteers simply waited for him to die, which would probably have been an even worse experience.

The larger cavern containing the shaft which is now his tomb has been named Moss Chamber:


No. Nope. Nah. I'll pass, thanks.

There's a more in depth article – with some quite atmospheric photographs - on the Mountain Rescue England and Wales site: Remembering Neil Moss....

Definitely, worth a read as it really brings home the horrendousness of the situation, the apparent foolhardiness of Neil Moss’s initial action, and the reasons they so quickly led to disaster. It’s also an illustration of the enormous change in context between the bit the tourists see, and the bits they never get near. In fact, it strikes me that caves and caving might serve as a symbol for all the environmental hazards involved in outdoor pursuits. It’s like, you’ve got separated from the rest of the group on a tour of York Minster, you take a wrong turn, open a broom cupboard and step through onto a two inch ledge two thirds of the way up El Capitan. You are always that close.
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Oh dear, that's really affected me, I'm prone to claustrophobia anyway, that poor poor lad
 
The above reminds me of a story local to myself - I'll try to post it over the weekend.
 
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