• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews

Spookdaddy said:
Thinking about it, isn't it kind of a tautology to be 'strictly' or 'ultra' orthodox. Surely, you're either orthodox or you're not - are there any grey areas that allow for nuance? Isn't it s bit like saying nearly infinite, or almost absolute?
Click to expand...

Whilst acknowledging your focus on language rather than the specifics of the religion, I think it can only be defined by reference to the religion itself.

A Jew is a Jew, yet as we see from life, each Jew might take a different approach to the daily application of the religious laws, and the theology of the religion.

1.) The "Orthodox" approach is one based on the fundamentals that were practiced by nearly all Jews since the inception of the religion:

Amongst them:

Kosher food.

Shabbat (Sabbath) observance.

Daily prayer.

Modesty of dress.

Marriage between different genders and adherence to rules of family purity especially with regards to menstruation.

Israel as the holy land for Jews to live in and be sovereign over.

The belief in the Messiah who will come at some point and usher in a new phase of human history,

And from a theological point of view, that of the Torah being given at Mount Sinai, by G-d to Moses, then to be kept word for word without adding or subtracting from it.
But to be discussed and applied to new technology with the advice and rulings of qualified Rabbis.

(There are actually 13 core beliefs of Judaism codified by a Rabbi called Maimonides.)


2.) As society changed in the 18th and 19th century, European Jewry especially came into contact with The Enlightenment.
This promoted a surge of discussion about belief and practice.

Some Jews became more lenient in daily laws, and eventually changed the theology for themselves.

In response, in 1865 in Hungary, a group of leading rabbis convened.
They were mostly the students of a stringent Rabbi called The Chatam Sofer.
The signed a set of decrees to keep the practice and theology as the were at that point.
It is considered the "birth" of what is now perceived by some as Ultra Orthodox Judaism.


3.) Within the Ultra Orthodox approach (best known as @Floyd1 wrote as "Hareidi "(G-d fearing), there are different tones and nuances, differing traditions.

These do not clash, but exist alongside each other.

They involve differing approaches to minor parts of the Kosher food laws, to the times of prayer, to the tunes used in synagogues, to names used for children, to dress codes etc.

There is the strict Litvish (Lithuanian) Yeshiva approach, based on rigorous study of texts.

There is the Hasidic world, where is the essence of things. Even in that world are may different dynasties with nuanced differences.

There are then also traditions from the Yeminis, the Iraqis etc.

And amongst the very strictest are some of the Ethiopians.
 
Some time ago I was in Israel for the first time on business and was staying on the 15th floor of a hotel in Beer Sheva. I was returning to my room on Saturday and noticed that the elevator opened on every single floor before reaching the 15th floor with nobody waiting for it on any of the floors. I assumed some kid had been in the elevator, pressed all the buttons and then done a runner. A colleague later explained to me that it is what they call a Shabbat elevator which goes into a special mode on Saturdays when it opens automatically on each floor allowing passengers to satisfy Jewish law by not having to press any buttons. If I'd been on a lower floor I think I would have used the stairs as it would have been quicker !
 
beaverton said:
Some time ago I was in Israel for the first time on business and was staying on the 15th floor of a hotel in Beer Sheva. I was returning to my room on Saturday and noticed that the elevator opened on every single floor before reaching the 15th floor with nobody waiting for it on any of the floors. I assumed some kid had been in the elevator, pressed all the buttons and then done a runner. A colleague later explained to me that it is what they call a Shabbat elevator which goes into a special mode on Saturdays when it opens automatically on each floor allowing passengers to satisfy Jewish law by not having to press any buttons. If I'd been on a lower floor I think I would have used the stairs as it would have been quicker !
Click to expand...
Yes. There are also cookers and devices for lights that are set on timer so that no switches have to be pressed during Shabbat.
(These types of timers that plug into the wall sockets are also very handy to use when you're away from home on holiday or at work etc, to turn on lamps/radios so it looks like someone is in, or even as I have done, to fire up a heater in the morning in winter.)
 
Floyd1 said:
Yes. There are also cookers and devices for lights that are set on timer so that no switches have to be pressed during Shabbat.
(These types of timers that plug into the wall sockets are also very handy to use when you're away from home on holiday or at work etc, to turn on lamps/radios so it looks like someone is in, or even as I have done, to fire up a heater in the morning in winter.)
Click to expand...
There also have been what were called in English/Yiddish "Shabbos goys". Usually young boys who were paid to light ovens etc for the orthodox on the sabbath. James Cagney growing up on the lower east side of Manhattan around 1910-ish made spare change as a shabbos goy. I know this because he and my grandmother had a long talk about it - in fluent Yiddish - when he sat next to her at a fancy dinner once.
 
Lb8535 said:
There also have been what were called in English/Yiddish "Shabbos goys". Usually young boys who were paid to light ovens etc for the orthodox on the sabbath. James Cagney growing up on the lower east side of Manhattan around 1910-ish made spare change as a shabbos goy. I know this because he and my grandmother had a long talk about it - in fluent Yiddish - when he sat next to her at a fancy dinner once.
Click to expand...
Yes.
And so was Elvis Presley.
Which is ironic because it is probable though not certain that he was actually Jewish according to Jewish law.
Though as a child he may well not have been aware of this and was not brought up as a practicing Jew.

Louis Armstrong and Colin Powell were Shabbos Goys too.
 

Israel to scrap single-use plastic tax despite environmental concerns.​

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich's first decision in his hew office was issuing a directive to cancel the levy imposed by previous government on plastic plates and utensils, as well as sugary drinks.​

Smotrich, who was sworn in on Thursday, said his first decision in office is to axe the plastic tax as well as a levy on sugary drinks "as quickly as possible." The decision, in apparent defiance of global efforts to reduce the amount of plastic waste that is polluting oceans, comes after opposition to the tax from religious parties that said it unfairly targeted their communities.

https://www.ynetnews.com/environment/article/r1jn8mjci

A parliamentary report from late 2021 found that Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) families, often from low-income communities, use three times more plasticware than the rest of the population. The tax was introduced from one day to the next, without any education or information, she points out.
“This is an important issue, because it's a symbol of this past government’s relationship with the Haredi parties and the Haredi public," she said, and continued:
“It has a huge impact. Just imagine — the average haredi family is nine people, six or seven children and two parents. They have at least three meals on Shabbat where everyone is at the table. Plus there’s often guests, and an average of three courses with each meal… that’s about 100 plates — not including glasses, silverware and serving platters. It’s like having a Thanksgiving meal three times a week!”

https://www.ynetnews.com/environment/article/rjn6pe5ci
 
Floyd1 said:

Israel to scrap single-use plastic tax despite environmental concerns.​

​

Click to expand...
It sounds trite but it was a hot political issue.

I expect the problem of single use plastic to be tackled by one or more of Israel's innovative start-ups.
Watch this space for biodegradable cutlery and crockery; perhaps bamboo.
 
ramonmercado said:
The saga continues.

Leaders of a Jewish sect arrested on suspicion of human trafficking and sex crimes in Mexico have been freed.

Their lawyer said the pair, who are foreign citizens, were released on Thursday night for lack of evidence. It followed a mass breakout of about 20 members of the sect held in a government facility after the raid on their jungle base last week..

The sect, Lev Tahor, is known for extremist practices and imposing a strict regime on its followers. It advocates child marriage, inflicts harsh punishments even for minor transgressions and requires women and girls as young as three years old to completely cover up with robes.

A source who was involved in the operation against the group told the BBC the decision to free the pair undermined "the impressive and untainted legal work accomplished by the Attorney General's Office and the police prior to and during the raid".

The two men had been under arrest since the raid on 23 September. Israel's foreign ministry identified them as an Israeli and a Canadian citizen.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-63091720
Click to expand...

More about the Lev Tahor Cult.

When Mexican police raided a self-styled Jewish sect, former members hoped it would spell the end of the group, which has been accused of crimes against children. Instead, the case collapsed and the sect recovered - but not before details about the cloistered community were exposed, including its plans for mass slaughter if outside authorities intervened. One former member, who recently fled, spoke to the BBC about his ordeal.

Warning: This story contains details of physical and sexual abuse

When Yisrael Amir got married, he and his bride stood under the chupah, the traditional Jewish wedding canopy, surrounded by members of their community. But what should be a couple's happiest day was for them a nightmare. Yisrael and his wife, Malke (not her real name), were both 16 and had met there and then for the first time. The marriage had been organised by leaders of the group which they had been brought into as children. The group is Lev Tahor, Hebrew for Pure Heart, which claims to follow a fundamentalist version of Judaism. Former members though, along with an Israeli court among others, say it is nothing but a cult.

"We had no choice," Yisrael, now 22, tells me as we sit and talk in the back yard of his aunt's house, just south of Tel Aviv. "The rabbi called me into his office and said, 'Next week you're getting married. If you refuse you get punished'. My sister was 13 and they forced her to marry a 19-year-old. She was crying. She cried so much they punished her by banning her from speaking for a year. She could not say a word - not ask for food, not ask for the toilet, nothing." ...

But, according to Yisrael, there was much worse.

"I saw every day Shlomo Helbrans [the founder of Lev Tahor] and another leader take boys in their room, boys as young as eight, then afterwards he sent them to the mikveh [ritual bath used for purification]. I didn't understand what he did with them. Now I know."
Yisrael says boys and girls told him they were sexually abused - and raped.

The BBC tried to speak to alleged child victims of rape who have left the group, but none were willing to talk. A US-based support group, Lev Tahor Survivors (LTS), told the BBC there are child rape victims among its members, while a source involved in an official investigation says Central American authorities have sworn statements from ex-members that rapes were committed. ...

This is what happened to Yisrael. At the age of 12, he was taken from their home in Israel, along with his six siblings, to join the group in Guatemala City by their father, Shaul. Yisrael says Lev Tahor had falsely promised his family that life in Guatemala would be paradise, with animals for the children to play with.

Instead "it was a complete shock," he says. "Everyone was separated from each other. Children had to sleep on stone floors. We were woken up about 3am every day, then prayers all day long, no food, no water, no talking to other children. If the rabbi [Helbrans] lectured us, it would go on for hours. Sometimes I would fall asleep standing up. Every single thing was controlled. You could only go to the toilet when they said you could. We had no education. We did not even study Torah [holiest books of the Jewish Bible] or Talmud [a principal Jewish book of laws] because that would have opened our minds - just Helbrans' writings, which we had to learn by heart. We did not go to sleep until 11pm." ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63942615
 

Israel readies ‘kosher electricity’ for ultra-Orthodox households​


Religious Israelis may soon have access to electric power that rabbis have approved for use during the weekly Sabbath, a techno-spiritual innovation that reflects advancements in battery science.

The program, unofficially dubbed “kosher electricity,” received cabinet approval Sunday. It would direct the national power utility to build, on a pilot basis, massive battery banks in and around ultra-Orthodox communities. These batteries would top up through the week with electricity from the public utility and dispense it during Shabbat hours, providing a workaround to rabbinical rules against plugging into the national grid from sundown on Fridays to sundown on Saturdays.

The strictest kosher keepers shun commercial power during those hours because it is seen as violating strictures on working during the Sabbath or taking advantage of work by other Jews.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...ity-for-ultra-orthodox-households/ar-AA1aR7Yd

maximus otter
 
It must also be a threat to the security of the Israeli state.

The Israeli parliament’s decision last month to give a hefty budget increase to religious schools that often do not teach science and math is drawing criticism from the nation’s research community. The move threatens to leave a growing share of Israel’s young people without the knowledge and skills needed to thrive in an increasingly competitive global economy, they warn.

“Hundreds of thousands of kids are getting an education for life in the Middle Ages,” says biochemist and Nobel laureate Aaron Ciechanover of the Technion Israel Institute of Technology. “I won’t say that what they’re learning is useless, but it won’t make them part of the Israeli economy or prepare them to study at university.”

At issue are hundreds of elementary and secondary schools that serve Israel’s ultra-Orthodox, or Haredi, Jewish community. Haredim comprise roughly 13% of Israel’s population, but Haredi schools enroll nearly 26% of Jewish students and 20% of all Israeli students. The schools, which receive public funding but often are not subject to government regulation, enrolled about 373,000 students during the 2021–22 school year.

Haredi schools typically prepare boys for lifelong study of Jewish religious texts and law, rather than employment. By seventh grade, most of the curriculum focuses on religious content. In 2020, for example, 84% of boys in Haredi high schools studied no secular subjects, according to political scientist Gilad Malach of the Israel Democracy Institute. Haredi girls, who are expected to work and support their families once they marry, are taught a state-mandated core curriculum that includes secular subjects, but the lessons are often less advanced than those given to non-Haredi students.

https://www.science.org/content/article/science-free-schooling-israel-s-ultra-orthodox-draws-fire
 
Tunnel Vision.

A group of Hasidic Jewish worshippers have been arrested amid a dispute over a tunnel secretly dug into the side of a historic synagogue in New York City, setting off a brawl between police and those who tried to defend the makeshift passageway.

The discovery of the tunnel at the Chabad-Lubavitch world headquarters in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, prompted an emergency structural inspection by the city on Tuesday.mThe building at 770 Eastern Parkway was once home to the movement’s leader, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, and draws thousands of visitors each year.

Its Gothic Revival facade is immediately recognisable to adherents of the Chabad movement and replicas of the building have been constructed all over the world.

Motti Seligson, a spokesman for Chabad, said a “group of extremist students” had secretly broken through the walls of a vacant building behind the headquarters, creating an underground passage beneath a row of office buildings and lecture halls that eventually connected to the synagogue.

The property’s manager brought in a construction crew on Monday to fix the damaged walls, leading to a stand-off with those who wanted the passageway to remain.

“Those efforts were disrupted by the extremists who broke through the wall to the synagogue, vandalising the sanctuary, in an effort to preserve their unauthorised access,” Mr Seligson said.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/s...l-between-police-and-worshippers-1573477.html
 
ramonmercado said:
It must also be a threat to the security of the Israeli state.

The Israeli parliament’s decision last month to give a hefty budget increase to religious schools that often do not teach science and math is drawing criticism from the nation’s research community. The move threatens to leave a growing share of Israel’s young people without the knowledge and skills needed to thrive in an increasingly competitive global economy, they warn.

“Hundreds of thousands of kids are getting an education for life in the Middle Ages,” says biochemist and Nobel laureate Aaron Ciechanover of the Technion Israel Institute of Technology. “I won’t say that what they’re learning is useless, but it won’t make them part of the Israeli economy or prepare them to study at university.”

At issue are hundreds of elementary and secondary schools that serve Israel’s ultra-Orthodox, or Haredi, Jewish community. Haredim comprise roughly 13% of Israel’s population, but Haredi schools enroll nearly 26% of Jewish students and 20% of all Israeli students. The schools, which receive public funding but often are not subject to government regulation, enrolled about 373,000 students during the 2021–22 school year.

Haredi schools typically prepare boys for lifelong study of Jewish religious texts and law, rather than employment. By seventh grade, most of the curriculum focuses on religious content. In 2020, for example, 84% of boys in Haredi high schools studied no secular subjects, according to political scientist Gilad Malach of the Israel Democracy Institute. Haredi girls, who are expected to work and support their families once they marry, are taught a state-mandated core curriculum that includes secular subjects, but the lessons are often less advanced than those given to non-Haredi students.

https://www.science.org/content/article/science-free-schooling-israel-s-ultra-orthodox-draws-fire
Click to expand...

Scenes like this in Tel Aviv - the unofficial LGBTQ capital of the Middle East, are probably enough to give the ultra-orthodox apoplexy!

aviv.png
 
charliebrown said:
What people don’t realize is that 50% of Israel’s population is secular and do not care about religion.
Click to expand...

The issue with Hasidic Jews though is that, whilst they are very much a minority in Israel at present, the trend is for them to marry young and have a great many children, all of which will be brought up to be (ultra)-orthodox themselves. Modern secular Jews have far fewer children and so the demographic looks likely to change over time. There is a certain parallel with the changing demographic in Northern Ireland, with the Nationalists/Catholics tending to have significantly more children than Loyalist/Protestant families (which recalls the classic Monty Python sketch - "every sperm is sacred").
 
The greatest example (I would say) is the Shabbat meal.
Many 'secular' Jews partake in this every week.
 
Floyd1 said:
The greatest example (I would say) is the Shabbat meal.
Many 'secular' Jews partake in this every week.
Click to expand...
It's really a way of keeping families together and promoting a community feeling.
It's a religious tradition that contributes to social cohesion.
Pretty much all the Jewish people I've known were secular or slightly observant. Orthodox and Hassidic Jews seem to have their community within a community. I still don't understand the old-fashioned clothing though - it's as much a statement of wealth as much as it is visual.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
There is a certain parallel with the changing demographic in Northern Ireland, with the Nationalists/Catholics tending to have significantly more children than Loyalist/Protestant families
Click to expand...

Except in this case the Catholic/Nationalist community are more in support of LGB rights and Contraception/Abortion rather than being fundamentalist.

The Catholic and Protestant birth rates have started to converge. While people may describe themselves as Catholic the majority ignore the RC teachings on contraception.

An interesting article:

The Demographic Timebomb​

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/population/hammond06rp.pdf
 
Mythopoeika said:
It's really a way of keeping families together and promoting a community feeling.
It's a religious tradition that contributes to social cohesion.
Pretty much all the Jewish people I've known were secular or slightly observant. Orthodox and Hassidic Jews seem to have their community within a community. I still don't understand the old-fashioned clothing though - it's as much a statement of wealth as much as it is visual.
Click to expand...
A lot, if not most Haredi Jews are not wealthy (especially in Israel) as most of them don't work and rely on benefits and/or their wive's income.
 
Looking back through some of the earlier posts here, it seems that there was/is a lot of derogatory comments regarding Orthodox Jews and their particular behaviours for eg not wanting to sit next to a woman on a plane or train.

While this may seem strange, even odd to western beliefs, 'we' do plenty of things that they find abhorrent and in any case, far from demeaning women, it's actually the opposite- it's done out of respect for women.

Same goes for women only train compartments (used in Muslim countries).
Women prefer to travel this way as they feel safer.

As for not using electricity, public transport or driving a car et al on the Sabbath, again this may seem ridiculous to some, and 'going back to the dark ages' but it's a way to connect with God - (just like fasting at Ramadan, or Lent for that matter) except it's done once a week.

I myself have considered not going to any shops on Saturday or Sunday, just to try to be more temperate instead of having everything available 24/7/365.
 
Floyd1 said:
I myself have considered not going to any shops on Saturday or Sunday, just to try to be more temperate instead of having everything available 24/7/365.
Click to expand...
I clearly remember the days when there was no shopping on Sundays. Personally, I wouldn't want to go back to that.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
And remember the Sunday pub opening hours? (shudder!).
Click to expand...
I don't, because I was too young to go to a pub and I never went there on a Sunday because my family are religious zealots.
 
Mythopoeika said:
I clearly remember the days when there was no shopping on Sundays. Personally, I wouldn't want to go back to that.
Click to expand...
I also remember them very well and this was in a tiny village, where even at the best of times, there were only two shops, (one the size of our downstairs toilet).

I'm sure that it would take a few weeks to get used to it again, but I really think that this 24/7 life is not good for the soul.

Having lived in Israel where everything shut and stopped running on Friday evening until Saturday evening, I found it a very pleasant experience (once I got used to it) along with the Shabbat meal.

Of course, apart from everything shutting, we also had no internet or mobiles and just three channels on tv back then, so it perhaps wasn't as dificult for us to manage as it would be today.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top