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Untranslatable & Indefinable Words

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TheQuixote

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Congo word 'most untranslatable'

By Oliver Conway
BBC News

The world's most difficult word to translate has been identified as "ilunga" from the Tshiluba language spoken in south-eastern DR Congo.

It came top of a list drawn up in consultation with 1,000 linguists.

Ilunga means "a person who is ready to forgive any abuse for the first time, to tolerate it a second time, but never a third time".

It seems straightforward enough, but the 1,000 language experts identified it as the hardest word to translate.

In second place was shlimazl which is Yiddish for "a chronically unlucky person".

Third was Naa, used in the Kansai area of Japan to emphasise statements or agree with someone.

Although the definitions seem fairly precise, the problem is trying to convey the local references associated with such words, says Jurga Zilinskiene, head of Today Translations, which carried out the survey.

"Probably you can have a look at the dictionary and... find the meaning," she said. "But most importantly it's about cultural experiences and... cultural emphasis on words."

The speed at which simultaneous interpreters work only adds to the difficulty of trying to explain words with complex meanings.

And technical jargon, often found in politics, business or sport, has difficulties of its own.

Miss Zilinskiene's own bete noir is "googly", a cricketing term for "an off-breaking ball disguised by the bowler with an apparent leg-break action".

But then many people find cricket incomprehensible anyway.
Naa.
Click to expand...

BBCi News 22/06/04
 
Fantastic. I love languages. Words rarely mean the same thing the same thing to all the people who speak them, let alone to foreigners!

One of the funniest books I've ever read was 'The Joys Of Yiddish', which fully explains how difficult it can be to translate all the meanings of a word.

I'm a word-nerd. :)
 
i suppose the japanese 'naa' is similar to 'la' in the scouse dialect.

if you know what i mean, la :D
 
Down here in scouse-town it appears that 'la' is on its way out and is being replaced by the word 'lad' at the end of every sentence.
 
must confess to that meself. every time i go back to mother mersey for a couple of days and return scotland unable to makes sentences that end in 'la', 'like', or 'lad' (or 'soft-lad' when prejorative).

edit: now it makes sense.
 
I find "mate" works fine in nearly all circumstances (as I can't bring myself to say "la'") but I've always found "la'"/"lad" to be used slightly differently as in:

"Alright la'?" or my favourite "E R la'" (meaning "here you are my friend" as opposed to "Could you direct me to the nearest emergency room my good man - I appear to have been stabbed in the buttocks")

"Hey lad f*ck off", "Lad come 'ere", etc.

Emps
 
since 'la' is dying in it's usuage do you lot think i could get a big european social fund grant trying to preserve it?
 
I don't think "la'" is dying off - I've heard it plenty of times recently.

------------------
Anyway the actual press release has more info on this story:

THE MOST UNTRANSLATABLE WORD IN THE WORLD – IN WORLDWIDE POLL OF PROFESSIONAL TRANSLATORS


And the winner is ILUNGA

A Word In The Bantu Language Of Tshiluba For

A Person Ready To Forgive Any Abuse For The First Time; To Tolerate It A Second Time; But Never A Third Time



Googly, Spam And Gobbledegook
Are Most Untranslatable Words In English


‘There Is No Such Word As Googly in Lithuanian’,
Confesses Researcher



Googly, Spam and gobbledegook have been voted among the most untranslatable words in the English language, in a worldwide poll of a thousand professional translators and interpreters.

But the most untranslatable word in any language, reckon the translators, is ilunga, a word in the Bantu language of Tshiluba for a person who is ready to forgive any abuse for the first time; to tolerate it a second time; but never a third time. And I suppose we all know that kind of person.

It narrowly outpointed shlimazl, a Yiddish word for a chronically unlucky person and radioukacz, a Polish word for a person who worked as a telegraphist for the resistance movements on the Soviet side of the Iron Curtain. And both finished well ahead of klloshar, the Albanian word for loser, which, perhaps fittingly, came in last place.

The most untranslatable word in the English language was reckoned to be plenipotentiary, which even many native English-speakers may not know means a special ambassador or envoy, invested with full powers.

Whimsy, bumf and serendipity (the faculty of making happy and unexpected discoveries by accident) were other words among the top ten.

The survey was conducted by Today Translations, a London-based translation and interpreting agency, which asked a thousand of its linguists across the world to nominate the words that they found hardest to translate.

‘My own vote would have gone to googly’, says Jurga Zilinskiene, the managing director of Today Translations, who worked as an interpreter herself before founding Today and becoming an award-winning businesswoman.

‘People sometimes forget that an interpreter, for example, must translate not just from one language to another but from one culture to another’, says Zilinskiene, 27. ‘Sometimes, the equivalent idea just does not exist in both cultures. I am from Lithuania, for example, and we simply do not have googlies in Lithuania.’

Indeed, confesses Ms Zilinskiene, although she knew that googly was something to do with cricket she could not have told you for certain that it was, in fact, an off-breaking ball with an apparent leg-break action on the part of the bowler.

Other foreign words to make the top 10 included naa, a Japanese word used only in the Kansai area of Japan to emphasise statements or agree with someone, and pochemuchka, the Russian word for a person who asks a lot of questions.

Today Translations uses a worldwide network of over 1,500 professional linguists to provide translation and interpreting services. After asking a thousand of this network to nominate words that were problematic to translate, it then asked 50 of them to vote for just one of the top contenders.

Linguists taking part in the poll were native speakers of languages ranging from English and French to Turkish, Ukranian, Chinese, Dari, Farsi, Amharic, Pushto, Somali, Tamil and many others.

THE RESULTS IN FULL

• THE TEN FOREIGN WORDS THAT WERE VOTED HARDEST TO TRANSLATE

1 ilunga [Tshiluba word for a person who is ready to forgive any abuse for the first time; to tolerate it a second time; but never a third time. Note: Tshiluba is a Bantu language spoken in south-eastern Congo, and Zaire]

2 shlimazl [Yiddish for a chronically unlucky person]

3 radioukacz [Polish for a person who worked as a telegraphist for the resistance movements on the Soviet side of the Iron Curtain]

4 naa [Japanese word only used in the Kansai area of Japan, to emphasise statements or agree with someone]

5 altahmam [Arabic for a kind of deep sadness]

6 gezellig [Dutch for cosy]

7 saudade [Portuguese for a certain type of longing]

8 selathirupavar [Tamil for a certain type of truancy]

9 pochemuchka [Russian for a person who asks a lot of questions]

10 klloshar [Albanian for loser]



• THE TEN ENGLISH WORDS THAT WERE VOTED HARDEST TO TRANSLATE

1 plenipotentiary

2 gobbledegook

3 serendipity

4 poppycock

5 googly

6 Spam

7 whimsy

8 bumf

9 chuffed

10 kitsch
Click to expand...

Emps
 
What's so difficult about "poppycock"? Comes from a Dutch term for "soft dung" or "baby poo"; means "nonsense"' in English. "Kitsch" is from the German and means "tacky, vulgar, sentimental".
 
I used to live in Washington near Newcastle - Geordieland - where there were a number of weird expressions and ways of speaking. One of the strangest was 'git' used as follows:

1. "It was a git funny film" - it was a tremendously funny film

2. "This git lad comes up to us" - this lad came up to me (whereby the speaker is implying that this was unusual or unexpected or that something amusing or unexpected is going to follow)

3. "I was git driving doon the motaway" - I was driving down the road (whereby it is evident to the listener that something funny or unexpected is going to follow)

4. "Ah wasn't deein' owt! Ah was just git sittin' hya" - I wasn't doing anything! I was just sitting here (whereby the implication is that the speaker resents having been asked or accused and feels defensive)

5. This was said by a mate of mine whilst sitting on top of Skidaw in the Lake District looking over towards a more mountainous region - "This is the liakes but that ower there is the git liakes!" - This is indeed the Lake District but that over there is the real Lake District

The emphasis in the above sentances are as follows:

1. on 'git' - probably the speaker would be smiling enthusiastically

2. on 'lad' - the word would be stretched and the speaker would probably sound indignant or in a manner that would indicate that whatever happened thereafter, he got the better of the lad. This would depend on context

3. on 'motaway' - whereby the speaker would sound as if he was just about to share a funny or interesting annecdote. 'Motaway' would be intoned as if it was intended to stand for something like 'y' know?'

4. on 'sittin'' - whereby the speaker would really over emphasise the word with a really indignant tone

5. on 'is' and then 'git' - whereby the speaker would sound appreciative and in the know; maybe slightly in awe

They also use 'la'' in the same way as the Scousers to mean 'lad!' as in:

"Ah was git sweatin' la'!" - Oh boy! I was really sweating!

Another word of theirs is 'like', which they add onto the end of questions like:

"Why, like?" - why? (Showing a lot of interest)
"What yae ganna dee aboot like?" - what are you going to do about it? (said aggressively)
"Hwee's that like?" - who's that then? (said in a conversational manner)
 
Leaferne said:
What's so difficult about "poppycock"? Comes from a Dutch term for "soft dung" or "baby poo"; means "nonsense"' in English. "Kitsch" is from the German and means "tacky, vulgar, sentimental".
Click to expand...

I don't think its the etymology or the dictionary defined definition (say that pissed) of the word that is the issue here Leaferne. Its more the cultural resonances that the word picks up that just are not explainable to non native speakers of the language.

For example, whilst poppycock does indeed mean nonsense, it tends to be used more slightly ironically, or when the speaker is being disparaging in a rather sardonic way, or when the speaker is being deliberatly grandious. Thats what is hard to translate, the meaning behind the meaning of the word. (did that make sense to anyone other than me or am I talking poppycock?)
 
But how do you pronounce it?

I am perpetually baffled by Welsh phonetics.
 
Re: World's longest place name and domain name

as9082 said:
And on the subject of words the longest place name in English goes to that of a place in Wales called :

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyll-llantysiliogogogoch
Click to expand...

so named to attract tourism i seem to recall - an extremely successful initiative if that is the case, because i'm sure noone would go there if it didn't have a silly name.
 
Spot On

Absolutely spot on with that. There is no way I would go there just because it has the longest name though.
 
quote:

And on the subject of words the longest place name in English goes to that of a place in Wales called....

Sorry to be pedantic but it's not English, its Welsh....
 
Another word for which there is no direct translation into English is the German "Volk," especially as used incessantly by the Nazis. ("Ein Fuhrer! Ein Reich! Ein Volk!") "Folk" doesn't do it, because that word as used in English doesn't bear all the metaphysical and even semi-occult baggage it carries for Germans. "Race" is even worse. "People" doesn't quite cut it either.

I believe the standard English translation of the Nazi newspaper VOLKISCHER BEOBACHTER was "Peoples' Voice," which conveys nothing of the racism which was intended.

Because of this, many modern historians of the Nazi period, writing in English, utilize the neoglism "Folkish."
 
Interesting: perhaps demonstrating that you understand the word by behaving appropriately is more important that being able to define it in terms of language.
_________________________________________________________________________________

‘Love of honour’, its official translation, is a utilitarian yet insufficient attempt to convey the constellation of virtues squeezed into the word’s four syllables.
  • By Stav Dimitropoulos
7 June 2017

In his second summer in the lonesome Greek village of Tolo on the east coast of the Peloponnese, German senior civil servant and writer Andreas Deffner committed a cultural blunder that led him to the celebrated concept of Greek philotimo.

“Good morning, how are you?’ Grandma Vangelió, owner of the pension where he was staying, warmly greeted him one day.

“So, so,” Deffner sleepily answered.

Next thing the German tourist knew, he was sweating over a bowl of delicious, steaming-hot chicken soup, the watchful eyes of Grandma Vangelió and her daughter Irini glued on him. When Irini started wildly gesticulating at her brother Pericles, who had just arrived, Deffner broke out in cold sweat. “What’ve I done?” he asked, warily.

"You said to Vangelió that you weren’t feeling well?" Pericles replied.

"I beg your pardon? I just said I was so, so.”

"If you answer ‘so, so’, locals think you're sick and their sense of philotimo urges them to heal you, thus the chicken soup,” Pericles replied, roaring with laughter.

The guest sighed with relief. “This was my first experience with philotimo, and certainly not the last,” Deffner, who later wrote a book on the topic, told me.

Philotimo belongs to the pantheon of Greek lexical items that defy easy explanation

The exact meaning of philotimo is hotly debated, given that the word belongs to the pantheon of Greek lexical items that defy easy explanation. ‘Love of honour’, its official translation, is a utilitarian yet insufficient attempt to convey the constellation of virtues squeezed into the word’s four syllables. When I asked various Greeks about their own perception of philotimo, I received very different responses.

“Doing the right thing,” Pinelopi Kalafati, a doctor, told me. “Loving and honouring God and your society,” said priest Nikolas Papanikolaou. "Striving for perfection,” answered actor Kostis Thomopoulos. “Stepping out from your comfort zone to help someone in need,” suggested Tatiana Papadopoulou, a volunteer in Malakasa detention camp for refugees.

Continued Here:
http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20170605-the-greek-word-that-cant-be-translated
 
This could be held as an example of the reason why Hellenistic heritage endures the passage of time. As a Brazilian living in Europe for many years, I am aware of many words that have this power to condense concepts that demands entire sentences in other languages, like "saudade". Even as an adopted French, I can think about words like that, "cafard", for instance.
 
Also, hygge. And similarly, gemutlichkeit (for which we have in Scotland couthie).

There is no direct englischersprachen equivalent (as far as I know)
 
What if this particularlies of some languages could become the guarantee of their survival? I guess that it happens already with Latin, for instance. How many other languages out there survive because of words or expressions that resists any attempt of plain translation?
 
A very good point.

Evidenced by Etruscan/Latinate words now fully-absorbed into English, such as autumn, person, arena, ceremony.
 
Ermintruder said:
Also, hygge. And similarly, gemutlichkeit (for which we have in Scotland couthie).

There is no direct englischersprachen equivalent (as far as I know)
Click to expand...

I've always taken hygge to mean "cosiness" and Gemütlichkeit (popularised by the famous Oktoberfest Ein Prosit song) to mean "conviviality".
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
I've always taken....Gemütlichkeit
Click to expand...
Oh? I understood it could also be used such as in phrases like 'das zimmer is sehr gemutlich'.

@chicorea, also: synonyms, as parallel loan-words.
2017-06-07 10.28.36.png

2017-06-07 10.29.21.png
 
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The French also have a word which I don't know how to spell as I have only ever heard it talked about and so therefore I can't look it up but it is something like "laissete" and is to do with being secular and how it is a part of being French.
 
When referring to, say, a room, as per your example, I would translate das Zimmer ist sehr gemütlich simply as the room is very comfortable.

The derived noun Gemütlichkeit can mean comfort but, in the Oktoberfest song, has a broader meaning of welcome, friendliness, camaraderie or conviviality.
 
min_bannister said:
The French also have a word which I don't know how to spell as I have only ever heard it talked about and so therefore I can't look it up but it is something like "laissete" and is to do with being secular and how it is a part of being French.
Click to expand...

The French word for secularism is laïcité.

(I was a modern languages student many years ago).
 
Curiously, French, with its comparatively small vocabulary, is lacking many words we take for granted in English.
There is no French word for shallow for example. You have to say "peu profond" (little deep). No word for sibling (frère et soeur). No specific word for ape (monkey and ape use the same word "singe", but to specify an ape, you have to say big monkey without tail - grand singe sans queue). Numbers are pretty weird too: in French French (not Belgian) there is no word for seventy. After sixty-eight and sixty-nine you have to say sixty-ten, sixty-eleven etc. up to sixty-nineteen, after which eighty is called four twenties.
 
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min_bannister said:
The French also have a word which I don't know how to spell as I have only ever heard it talked about and so therefore I can't look it up but it is something like "laissete" and is to do with being secular and how it is a part of being French.
Click to expand...

As blessmycottonsockets pointed, laïcité is, on its origins, the principle of separating State and Church. It became, in recent years, keeping religion out of the Res Publica, the political life. And also the schools, public service, beaches... In other hand, being "las" means being bored, fed up with something, but on a more passive way. It leads to "lassitude", another tricky word.
 
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