What Happened To All The Sightings & Abductions?
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Glad to be of service ...
NOTE: I reported only the single thread mentioning Eupen specifically. There are multiple archived threads on the FTMB that discuss the 'Belgian Wave' of sightings overall.
dr wu
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INT21.....
I assume you are referring to the 'black triangle ' ufo seen over Belgian airspace and thought by some to be a covert military plane and others a ufo...?
What are your thoughts on that or what was it specifically you wanted to get into about it?
I assume you are referring to the 'black triangle ' ufo seen over Belgian airspace and thought by some to be a covert military plane and others a ufo...?
What are your thoughts on that or what was it specifically you wanted to get into about it?
eburacum
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Two things of note about that 'black triangle';
1/ the famous photo was apparently a hoax;
http://www.ibtimes.com/controversial-belgian-ufo-image-confirmed-hoax-after-two-decades-818981
2/ Although planes were scrambled, the pilots saw nothing visually. The behaviour of the radar detections seem to bear little relation to what was seen on the ground or to anything physically real.
This is a very odd case, but almost certainly has noting to do with alien spacecraft or secret military aircraft.
1/ the famous photo was apparently a hoax;
http://www.ibtimes.com/controversial-belgian-ufo-image-confirmed-hoax-after-two-decades-818981
2/ Although planes were scrambled, the pilots saw nothing visually. The behaviour of the radar detections seem to bear little relation to what was seen on the ground or to anything physically real.
This is a very odd case, but almost certainly has noting to do with alien spacecraft or secret military aircraft.
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I am going to have to find my videos of the incident and re examine them. But my main point is 'was there anything there at all ?'
This may seem a bit pointless, but bear with me and we will see where it goes. I would add at this stage that one 'expert' (from Janes Defense Weekly) Did suggest the 'people were probably seeing something that wasn't there'.
Make of that what you will.
So, just to be going on with, Who thinks there was 'something there'? regardless of what it was.
Eburacum,
By the way, the link you posted does not seem to bear any resemblance to the incident. I am referring to the incident that had about two hundred witnesses and was seen over a largish part of Belgium.
..This is a very odd case, but almost certainly has noting to do with alien spacecraft or secret military aircraft...
So what would be your suggestion; if it was neither of those two ?
Dr wu,
There were two reported incidents, about a year apart. I am more interested in the first one.
INT21
This may seem a bit pointless, but bear with me and we will see where it goes. I would add at this stage that one 'expert' (from Janes Defense Weekly) Did suggest the 'people were probably seeing something that wasn't there'.
Make of that what you will.
So, just to be going on with, Who thinks there was 'something there'? regardless of what it was.
Eburacum,
By the way, the link you posted does not seem to bear any resemblance to the incident. I am referring to the incident that had about two hundred witnesses and was seen over a largish part of Belgium.
..This is a very odd case, but almost certainly has noting to do with alien spacecraft or secret military aircraft...
So what would be your suggestion; if it was neither of those two ?
Dr wu,
There were two reported incidents, about a year apart. I am more interested in the first one.
INT21
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dr wu
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It's been quite a while since I read anything about this case but if there was 'nothing there'....then why were people reporting seeing something? There must have been some sort of natural phenom to trigger a sighting or perhaps it was false radar detection..? 
eburacum
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Of course the faked image has nothing to do with the incident; it was a fake. But for many years this image has accompanied the accounts of the Belgian flap.
In fact there were at least 13500 accounts of this event, mostly due to intense media coverage. These accounts varied very greatly, as one might expect. I suspect that most of the witnesses were reporting the F16 planes, although some may have been reporting astronomical or meteorlogical phenomena, or simply making it up (even the ones who elaborated their sightings probably heard the planes, and most of those honestly believed that they saw something).
The radar contact was highly unphysical; at one point the readings seemed to indicate a negative altitude- that is, below the ground.
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/Belg.htm
...some of the radar returns may have been caused by a column of smoke from a factory chimney, which also had a flashing light on top (which may have confused a few observers).
In fact there were at least 13500 accounts of this event, mostly due to intense media coverage. These accounts varied very greatly, as one might expect. I suspect that most of the witnesses were reporting the F16 planes, although some may have been reporting astronomical or meteorlogical phenomena, or simply making it up (even the ones who elaborated their sightings probably heard the planes, and most of those honestly believed that they saw something).
The radar contact was highly unphysical; at one point the readings seemed to indicate a negative altitude- that is, below the ground.
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/Belg.htm
...some of the radar returns may have been caused by a column of smoke from a factory chimney, which also had a flashing light on top (which may have confused a few observers).
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Eburacum,
I though at first that your username was the old Norse name for the capital city of my home county; York. But I see it is spelt a little differently.
Anyway, back to business.
You do seem to be of the opinion that there was nothing worth mentioning in this sighting; the first one.
At the moment I am not concerned with radar returns, only with people's observations.
If we concentrate on one aspect at a time it helps to add clarity.
Again, I have to find the recordings I made of the reports. They are on CD. Along with many other items in a rack of CDs some three feet long; so it may take some time.
I'm working from memory at the moment.
But what I wish to fix in place is the observation by police of a very large, silent object, that they saw hovering over a lake. This same object was reported by many other witnesses over a wide area.
So, do you suggest that all these people, who considered it unusual enough to report, really didn't see anything ?
And it is generally accepted that for every person who reports something unusual there are likely to be many who see it but don't bother.
As for fighter jets, helicopters etc, this sighting was in rural Belgium. And as we all know, you can hear the approach and manoeuvrings of jets and helicopters from miles away. So, on a quite night with virtually no background noise from industry etc, it is hard to see why no one noticed any sound. Bearing in mind also that the police are supposed to be more observant that the average person as it is a requirement of their job.
Dr wu,
...but if there was 'nothing there'....then why were people reporting seeing something? There must have been some sort of natural phenom to trigger a sighting or perhaps it was false radar detection..?...
I think my response to Eburacum is asking the same question.
Maybe other can chime in with their explanations.
That 'there was nothing there' does not seem reasonable.
The ins and out of radar returns can always be argued over. But something huge hanging over a lake in front of you is either there or it is not there.
INT21
I though at first that your username was the old Norse name for the capital city of my home county; York. But I see it is spelt a little differently.
Anyway, back to business.
You do seem to be of the opinion that there was nothing worth mentioning in this sighting; the first one.
At the moment I am not concerned with radar returns, only with people's observations.
If we concentrate on one aspect at a time it helps to add clarity.
Again, I have to find the recordings I made of the reports. They are on CD. Along with many other items in a rack of CDs some three feet long; so it may take some time.
I'm working from memory at the moment.
But what I wish to fix in place is the observation by police of a very large, silent object, that they saw hovering over a lake. This same object was reported by many other witnesses over a wide area.
So, do you suggest that all these people, who considered it unusual enough to report, really didn't see anything ?
And it is generally accepted that for every person who reports something unusual there are likely to be many who see it but don't bother.
As for fighter jets, helicopters etc, this sighting was in rural Belgium. And as we all know, you can hear the approach and manoeuvrings of jets and helicopters from miles away. So, on a quite night with virtually no background noise from industry etc, it is hard to see why no one noticed any sound. Bearing in mind also that the police are supposed to be more observant that the average person as it is a requirement of their job.
Dr wu,
...but if there was 'nothing there'....then why were people reporting seeing something? There must have been some sort of natural phenom to trigger a sighting or perhaps it was false radar detection..?...
I think my response to Eburacum is asking the same question.
Maybe other can chime in with their explanations.
That 'there was nothing there' does not seem reasonable.
The ins and out of radar returns can always be argued over. But something huge hanging over a lake in front of you is either there or it is not there.
INT21
Video: NASA cuts feed as UFO enters Earth’s atmosphere
'People love conspiracies, and alien truthers are having a field day with a recent videopurportedly showing a UFO entering Earth’s atmosphere.
During a recent live stream from the International Space Station (ISS), a small white dot can be seen entering the frame and hurtling itself toward Earth. As the object continued to get closer, NASA’s live stream suddenly cut out. Obviously, the agency is hiding something, right?...'
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/07/17/video-nasa-cuts-feed-as-ufo-enters-earths-atmosphere/
'People love conspiracies, and alien truthers are having a field day with a recent videopurportedly showing a UFO entering Earth’s atmosphere.
During a recent live stream from the International Space Station (ISS), a small white dot can be seen entering the frame and hurtling itself toward Earth. As the object continued to get closer, NASA’s live stream suddenly cut out. Obviously, the agency is hiding something, right?...'
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/07/17/video-nasa-cuts-feed-as-ufo-enters-earths-atmosphere/
eburacum
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Eburacum is the Latin name for York.
http://roman-britain.co.uk/places/eburacum.htm
Police appear to be shockingly bad witnesses where UFOs are concerned. They often mistake Venus, Jupiter or even the Moon for unknown craft. But they are not trained for it, of course. No-one is.
A large, motionless, silent object above a lake is most likely to be a chance arrangement of celestial objects or distant lights, such as the light on the top of that chimney mentioned earlier, or aircraft lights seen at a distance. I doubt we'll ever know now what those people saw, which makes it an intriguing event; but the idea that the visual reports were confirmed by the F-16 radar seems to be incorrect.
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Eburacum,
You are, of course, right. But only on the York thing.
It can be spelt either with an 'o' or a 'u'. And it is, as you point out, the Roman name for the city. Yorvik being the Norse name. I don't usually make such a basic mistake; must have been a bad day. It is almost treasonable.
I shall never be able to hold my head up in the city again.
I'll come back to the other things later tonight. It is a fine day here. Much too nice to spend in front of a keyboard.
INT21
You are, of course, right. But only on the York thing.
It can be spelt either with an 'o' or a 'u'. And it is, as you point out, the Roman name for the city. Yorvik being the Norse name. I don't usually make such a basic mistake; must have been a bad day. It is almost treasonable.
I shall never be able to hold my head up in the city again.
I'll come back to the other things later tonight. It is a fine day here. Much too nice to spend in front of a keyboard.
INT21
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Eboracum seems to be invoking Occam's Razor.
I.e the simplest explanation is probably right.
This will depend upon the quality of the sighting and the knowledge of the observer.
A group of primitive tribesmen are walking through the jungle by a mountain and watching a few birds soaring on the thermals. They see an unusual bird. It is bigger than the Condors they are watching. They come to the conclusion that it is just an exceptionally large Condor. After all, what else could it be ? Only birds fly; ergo it must be a bird of some kind. They applied Occam's Razor.
An more enlightened observer may have recognised it as a hang glider. But, of course, the tribe didn't know about hang gliders.
Beware of simplistic conclusions.
INT21
I.e the simplest explanation is probably right.
This will depend upon the quality of the sighting and the knowledge of the observer.
A group of primitive tribesmen are walking through the jungle by a mountain and watching a few birds soaring on the thermals. They see an unusual bird. It is bigger than the Condors they are watching. They come to the conclusion that it is just an exceptionally large Condor. After all, what else could it be ? Only birds fly; ergo it must be a bird of some kind. They applied Occam's Razor.
An more enlightened observer may have recognised it as a hang glider. But, of course, the tribe didn't know about hang gliders.
Beware of simplistic conclusions.
INT21
dr wu
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INT21,
After all this time what's the consensus among ufologists about the Belgium sightings? Has it been relegated to mis- perceptions of natural objects or is there still a contingent who think there was an actual object/ufo seen multiple times over that lake? And how does that connect to the the sightings of large black tris seen over Belgium?
After all this time what's the consensus among ufologists about the Belgium sightings? Has it been relegated to mis- perceptions of natural objects or is there still a contingent who think there was an actual object/ufo seen multiple times over that lake? And how does that connect to the the sightings of large black tris seen over Belgium?
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Dr wu,
It seems to have joined the ranks of 'unexplained'.
Like most things in the ufo realm, if no one claims it then there is no way of knowing what it was.
To me it comes down to the question 'was there anything there or not ?' Regardless of what it was.
If the answer is 'no, there was nothing there' then one is faced with the even more important question ...
'then why did so many people report something that wasn't there. And why did they all report the same non-existent non entity ?'
INT21
It seems to have joined the ranks of 'unexplained'.
Like most things in the ufo realm, if no one claims it then there is no way of knowing what it was.
To me it comes down to the question 'was there anything there or not ?' Regardless of what it was.
If the answer is 'no, there was nothing there' then one is faced with the even more important question ...
'then why did so many people report something that wasn't there. And why did they all report the same non-existent non entity ?'
INT21
dr wu
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So then.....what was seen was this large black tri....or were there other ufos also seen...?
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While I find the original reporting, here is something that is very close to what was said at the time.
Yes, I know it is from a ufo site. But the description of events is virtually the same.
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc404.htm
INT21
Yes, I know it is from a ufo site. But the description of events is virtually the same.
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc404.htm
INT21
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Eburacum,
Just had a thought.
Taking into consideration the conclusions you come to re the above case. How do you explain the following.
It refers to the Allen Godfrey case in West Yorkshire.
In a documentary, ex PC Godfrey met up with some colleagues from the police force who had been out that same night and also reported ufo activity.
Godfrey remarked to the other officer something like ' I'm glad you lads also saw it'
The officer responded, Saw it ! we thought it was going to land on top of us. It went down in the quarry. But when we went to look there was nothing there'.
So, how would you describe what had happened there ?
Surely not reflected starlight ?
INT21
Just had a thought.
Taking into consideration the conclusions you come to re the above case. How do you explain the following.
It refers to the Allen Godfrey case in West Yorkshire.
In a documentary, ex PC Godfrey met up with some colleagues from the police force who had been out that same night and also reported ufo activity.
Godfrey remarked to the other officer something like ' I'm glad you lads also saw it'
The officer responded, Saw it ! we thought it was going to land on top of us. It went down in the quarry. But when we went to look there was nothing there'.
So, how would you describe what had happened there ?
Surely not reflected starlight ?
INT21
eburacum
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One interesting theory here
http://www.weirdisland.co.uk/skies/ufos/the-alan-godfrey-abduction.html
Godfrey may have seen, misremembered or fantasised about the UFO house which was in Todmorden at that time.
This is very similar to a theory explaining Betty and Barney Miller's experiences; they might have seen a light on top of Cannon Mountain.
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite4_2.pdf
Note in particular that both Godfrey and the Millers underwent hypnotic regression; a terrible way to get to the truth.
http://www.weirdisland.co.uk/skies/ufos/the-alan-godfrey-abduction.html
Godfrey may have seen, misremembered or fantasised about the UFO house which was in Todmorden at that time.
This is very similar to a theory explaining Betty and Barney Miller's experiences; they might have seen a light on top of Cannon Mountain.
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite4_2.pdf
Note in particular that both Godfrey and the Millers underwent hypnotic regression; a terrible way to get to the truth.
JamesWhitehead
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It's certainly an interesting sidelight on Todmorden's reputation as a "window-area." Perhaps a lot of minds were rendered susceptible to classic UFO-shaped objects.
So far as I can make out, however, it was the Godfrey case which initiated the area's reputation as UFO-Alley.
This page says it was actually produced locally, exhibited in Todmorden for the Centenary and was later used by the firm as an office-building.
That page mentions nothing about the Finnish designer or the other 100, which seem to have been manufactured under licence all over the world.
All quite intriguing but not the kind of thing likely to produce trauma nine years later.
So far as I can make out, however, it was the Godfrey case which initiated the area's reputation as UFO-Alley.
This page says it was actually produced locally, exhibited in Todmorden for the Centenary and was later used by the firm as an office-building.
That page mentions nothing about the Finnish designer or the other 100, which seem to have been manufactured under licence all over the world.
All quite intriguing but not the kind of thing likely to produce trauma nine years later.
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..Godfrey may have seen, misremembered or fantasised about the UFO house which was in Todmorden at that time...
He described what he saw long before any of the hypnotic regression stuff. That only pertains to what was supposed to have happened inside the 'object'.
But my question was how do you explain the corroborating stories of the other police officers ?
INT21
He described what he saw long before any of the hypnotic regression stuff. That only pertains to what was supposed to have happened inside the 'object'.
But my question was how do you explain the corroborating stories of the other police officers ?
INT21
eburacum
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The other police officers seem to have described something completely different; something that could be easily explained by non-exotic phenomena such as a meteor or man-made craft. When objects are described as 'coming down' rather than 'hovering' I tend to suspect re-entering spacecraft or bolides, or just aircraft seen at a strange angle. The fact that the quarry was searched and nothing was found tends to corroborate this.
This event may have been the trigger for Godfrey's bizarre experience - which almost certainly didn't happen as he described it. Or it may have been unconnected.
This event may have been the trigger for Godfrey's bizarre experience - which almost certainly didn't happen as he described it. Or it may have been unconnected.
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kamalktk
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This isn't just a ufo site, it's a site for all sorts of oddities, and an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. This site isn't a debunker site, and it's not an unquestioning believer site either.
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Kamalktk,
You are quite correct.
Maybe I should re phrase my question to Eburacum.
so, Eburacum, do you believe there is any reality at all to the ufo phenomena ?
Or can all sightings be explained as miss identifications of some kind or another.
INT21
You are quite correct.
Maybe I should re phrase my question to Eburacum.
so, Eburacum, do you believe there is any reality at all to the ufo phenomena ?
Or can all sightings be explained as miss identifications of some kind or another.
INT21
eburacum
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My view is more complex than that. I think we live in a multiverse, and in some universes we are visited by aliens, and in other universes we are not. From the evidence available to us, we can't distinguish between these worlds.
I happen to think that the universes where there are no aliens visiting us are far more numerous than the ones where they are. There are probably also universes where aliens do visit us and we don't see them; these are probably also more numerous than the ones where policemen get inexplicably abducted.
I happen to think that the universes where there are no aliens visiting us are far more numerous than the ones where they are. There are probably also universes where aliens do visit us and we don't see them; these are probably also more numerous than the ones where policemen get inexplicably abducted.
Here's my (somewhat tentative) view....
The UFO phenomenon is far more prevalent in the US than in any other part of the world. This should give the astute observer a clue that there's a covert, technologically advanced group of people out there who are connected to the military-industrial complex who are manufacturing this phenomenon including all those others phenomena's that are connected to it; like ET abductions, for example. And, that this advanced group of people are mostly Americans or rather, the US is running it hence why these phenomena occur more in the US than elsewhere. But having said this, it's not surprising that South America also has a lot of UFO events too due to its proximity to the US/North America.
One other thing should be said... even if a crazy dictator were on the verge of expediting a nuclear missile, this covert group/agency would still not utilize their advance technology to prevent it from obliterating whole regions of the world. Total non-intervention is the rule of the game but then, on the other hand they DO operate covertly behind the scenes in many, many ways....
They are also advanced in other area's too, like human consciousness for example.
This advanced group of people, which is generational, operate even outside of our most elite halls of academia. They are like the Jetson's, 10x's over and their advanced technology is trickled down into the mainstream on a very slooooow schedule... They determine when greater humanity is ready for any given thing.
This advanced group of people are tapped into an informational stream composed of intelligence's far more advanced than we are. You can read that any way you want.
The UFO phenomenon is far more prevalent in the US than in any other part of the world. This should give the astute observer a clue that there's a covert, technologically advanced group of people out there who are connected to the military-industrial complex who are manufacturing this phenomenon including all those others phenomena's that are connected to it; like ET abductions, for example. And, that this advanced group of people are mostly Americans or rather, the US is running it hence why these phenomena occur more in the US than elsewhere. But having said this, it's not surprising that South America also has a lot of UFO events too due to its proximity to the US/North America.
One other thing should be said... even if a crazy dictator were on the verge of expediting a nuclear missile, this covert group/agency would still not utilize their advance technology to prevent it from obliterating whole regions of the world. Total non-intervention is the rule of the game but then, on the other hand they DO operate covertly behind the scenes in many, many ways....
They are also advanced in other area's too, like human consciousness for example.
This advanced group of people, which is generational, operate even outside of our most elite halls of academia. They are like the Jetson's, 10x's over and their advanced technology is trickled down into the mainstream on a very slooooow schedule... They determine when greater humanity is ready for any given thing.
This advanced group of people are tapped into an informational stream composed of intelligence's far more advanced than we are. You can read that any way you want.
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