What Happened To All The Sightings & Abductions?

[JamesWhitehead]

This advanced group of people, which is generational, operate even outside of our most elite halls of academia.

They had reached Todmorden in 1971!

My family stems - in the name-sense - from thereabouts. I always put our strange powers down to generations of marrying cousins!

 

[INT21]

Mag-ona,

...One other thing should be said... even if a crazy dictator were on the verge of expediting a nuclear missile, this covert group/agency would still not utilize their advance technology to prevent it from obliterating whole regions of the world.

Soooooo,

This group of super being who are capable of some very strange things are, in reality, about as much use to us as the Gods that people pray to when in great distress or great danger.
Basically, they don't give a rat's ar**.

Thought so.

INT21

 

[INT21]

Eburacum,

Looks as if you have most of the options covered there.

Are you a politician by any chance ?

INT21

 

[INT21]

...This advanced group of people are tapped into an informational stream composed of intelligence's far more advanced than we are. You can read that any way you want...

It's a view that a lot of people share. But not myself.

To run with this idea you need to be able to show where the 'knowledge' is coming from. Otherwise you are in the same position of people who take advice from priests and the like who claim to have 'the word' directly from a God.
And, of course, there is no way to prove or disprove this. Very convenient.

...They determine when greater humanity is ready for any given thing....

They don't appear to be making a very good job of it so far.

There is another aspect of this that many forget.
The highly acrobatic maneuvers and fantastic accelerations as observed by witnesses has been going on from way back before our planes could even reach the sound barrier.
We are accustomed to modern machinery been able to do remarkable things. But back in the fifties, a golden time for ufos, we had nothing need the capability these 'objects' demonstrated.

INT21

 

[Zeke Newbold]

Here's my (somewhat tentative) view....

The UFO phenomenon is far more prevalent in the US than in any other part of the world.

The very starting point of your whole premise is thoroughly flawed. The UFO coverage that we Westerners are mostly exposed to comes from America (for reasons of language alone). American commentators tend to be Amerocentric in their outlook and focus on the sightings in their own country. Thus it is easy to gather the impression that the UFO phenomenon is a North American one. I can assure you, however, that scarcely a week goes by in Russia without there being a sighting and that over in China there is a large and burgeoning UFO-enthusiast scene which rivals our own. It is merely the language barrier that causes us to be unaware of these facts.

If any group in the States had access to the type of aeronautic technology implied by many a UFO testimony, then that country would be using it -openly -to its own military advantage.

 

[Ermintruder]

The highly acrobatic maneuvers and fantastic accelerations as observed by witnesses has been going on from way back before our planes could even reach the sound barrier

I'm going to interpret what you've said, there, in a rather-different way. I have a gut feeling (which could be entire wrong, but I've a feeling it's broadly-correct) that as time has progressed, the reported speeds and witnessed manouvres have become become faster.

For example: the 1800s reports of impossible airships, and that fascinating report of human figures seen and heard in an open rotating wheel are at total variance with early-mid 1900s statements, such as "it suddenly appeared", or "it climbed rapidly then sped off into space".

Is it not the case that reports are, perhaps significantly, semi-typical of their era?

Slow astronomical (or at least) lingering unsolid visions in days of antiquity? Sedate balloonoid sightings in pre-steam centuries? Rapid shiny rise-ups in the rocket/satellite decades? Instant appearances/super-fast movements (though, now, all rarely) in a modern sci-fi/post-supersonic age?

I'm sure I've read about this: a purported loose match between prevaling terrestrial technologies, and apparent style /shape / speed of alleged sightings.

 

[Mag-ona]

"In particular, the distribution of UFO sightings across the globe might be of interest. The best resource I've found on this subject is this page. According to the statistics compiled on that site, the United States has the most sightings of any single country, followed by France and Great Britain." Jun 27, 2015

Source: Cornell University... http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/132-observational-astronomy/seti-and-extraterrestrial-life/ufos/798-why-do-so-many-of-the-world-s-ufo-sightings-happen-in-america-beginner

Why do so many of the world's UFO sightings happen in America?
by:
Christopher Springob (Astronomer)
Chris studies the large scale structure of the universe using the peculiar velocities of galaxies. He got his PhD from Cornell in 2005, and is now a Research Assistant Professor at the University of Western Australia.

First of all, let me reiterate the point made here. There has never been any reliable evidence of any kind to suggest that alien spacecraft have visited Earth.

But that's not to say that people haven't looked at the claims of UFO sightings scientifically. In particular, the distribution of UFO sightings across the globe might be of interest. The best resource I've found on this subject isthis page. According to the statistics compiled on that site, the United States has the most sightings of any single country, followed by France and Great Britain. (Though I haven't looked at it carefully enough to pick out the countries with the most sightings per capita.)

I think the most interesting map on that site is the distribution of sightings in Europe. France and Great Britain have many more sightings than Germany, even though Germany has a larger population than either of those two countries. You can find similar discrepancies all over the world. There's more than one way to interpret data like this. But to me, it seems a little far-fetched that aliens would recognize national borders, and visit one country much more than another if the two countries are geographically close, and similar in population, population density, and economic development. So a map like this suggests to me that UFO sightings are likely to be a cultural phenomenon.

This page was last updated June 27, 2015.
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UFO Sightings Map: Europe
This map shows UFO sightings for all dates in Europe, recently refreshed and brightened to 4 pixels each.

Place-name "tags" show in dark green characters, e.g. GER for Germany.

Sightings densities for each country depend heavily upon the activities of their respective UFO groups, journals and investigators.

Note the disproportionate sightings densities for Britain and France, compared to Germany, Holland and points east.

The biggest single reason is that Larry Hatch can't read German, Dutch, Polish etc., introducing a very definite "cultural bias".

https://web.archive.org/web/20060106070826/http://www.larryhatch.net/EURALL.html

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UFO Map: North America
UFO sightings are mapped here for all years.

While New Mexico has over nine times the sightings per 1000 population as New York, the District of Columbia has highest counts over area due to its tiny size, followed by New England and Puerto Rico.

The lowest counts per square mile are in Alaska, Canada, the Dakotas, Montana, Nebraska and Nevada. With its large size and population, California has the most reports over all, 984 listed as of January 2006.

Language and infrastructure prevent adequate coverage of Mexico and the third world in general.

The data this map is based on changes as new historical UFO sightings are discovered. Presently, the focus is on the early 1960s.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060106075759/http://www.larryhatch.net/NAMALL.html

 

[fortean666]

The cultural thing you're mentioning might of course just be the willingness of people to come forward with their reports. Or the availability of a body that accepts these reports.

 

[bonehead]

Here's my (somewhat tentative) view....

The UFO phenomenon is far more prevalent in the US than in any other part of the world. This should give the astute observer a clue that there's a covert, technologically advanced group of people out there who are connected to the military-industrial complex who are manufacturing this phenomenon including all those others phenomena's that are connected to it; like ET abductions, for example. And, that this advanced group of people are mostly Americans or rather, the US is running it hence why these phenomena occur more in the US than elsewhere. But having said this, it's not surprising that South America also has a lot of UFO events too due to its proximity to the US/North America.

'

Mag-Ona,

This is an interesting point of view - and not a new one I might add. I at one time worked with a fellow i greatly admired who was a conspiracy theorist. He would have been interested in this idea. But I think it has one Achilles heel: how do you explain older UFO reports or similar "unexplained" phenomenon?

I have read older UFO reports from the early 20th or even 19th century that would not have seemed out of place in the 1950s. To me this suggests that this stuff has been going on far longer than only since 1947. If you have read Jacques Vallee's book, Wonders in the Sky: Unexplained Aerial Objects from Antiquity to Modern Times, you will find a good number of similar reports that go back even further in time....

One other thing should be said... even if a crazy dictator were on the verge of expediting a nuclear missile, this covert group/agency would still not utilize their advance technology to prevent it from obliterating whole regions of the world. Total non-intervention is the rule of the game but then, on the other hand they DO operate covertly behind the scenes in many, many ways....

They are also advanced in other area's too, like human consciousness for example.

This advanced group of people, which is generational, operate even outside of our most elite halls of academia. They are like the Jetson's, 10x's over and their advanced technology is trickled down into the mainstream on a very slooooow schedule... They determine when greater humanity is ready for any given thing.

This advanced group of people are tapped into an informational stream composed of intelligence's far more advanced than we are. You can read that any way you want.

Of course, that is the big-daddy of all conspiracy theories. I do not question that there are real power elites that operate from behind the scenes ala "The Wizard of Oz". The question to my mind is how cooperative are they? If you get an unrelated group of power mad 'movers and shakers' all together, they will look like they are all operating from the same playbook because they all have similar motivations. But that does not necessarily mean they are cooperating. Let's face it, power mad Machiavellian types are not generally motivated by a unitary altruism. They would just as soon stab each other in the back for an advantage.

But, I can be open minded about this. What actual evidence is there for this? I think you are suggesting something far more sinister than well to do folks in Masonic lodges..... ??

 

[bonehead]

Mag-Ona,

I think the UFO sighting maps can be indicative of something more crucial than just UFO sightings:

Wouldn't they just as well be indicators of areas where people are more likely to report sightings? For instance, how do you explain the large masses of sightings in Northern Europe - EXCEPT Germany? Could it be that Germans are simply less likely to give credence to sightings and thus less willing to report them? The maps show where people report UFOs, not necessarily where they are seen.

I think that without understanding the mindsets of people in these different areas, it is questionable what the clustering of UFO reports actually mean in the aggregate. When you factor in mindsets, might the distribution of UFO reports tell a different story entirely? That would be my guess.

 

[dr wu]

Not sure if this is the same archived data site.....but here is another link with maps for just about everywhere.
https://web.archive.org/web/20051220150437/http://www.larryhatch.net/WESTHEMI.html

It is interesting that America, England, and France seem to have the highest number of sightings....is that due to reporting, cultural issues, or just that the people in those countries see more ufos because the 'aliens' like to visit there more?

I think this data tells us far more about humans , human perceptions , cultural beliefs, and what they think they see than actual alien events,....but who knows...?

 

[dr wu]

For those interested in other data .....Vallee did some data analysis in his book Anatomy Of A Phenomenon.
He correlated daily times of sightings, peak monthly times, and yearly sighting graphs. Not sure if he went into country analysis.

 

[Analis]

UFO Sightings Map: Europe
This map shows UFO sightings for all dates in Europe, recently refreshed and brightened to 4 pixels each.

Place-name "tags" show in dark green characters, e.g. GER for Germany.

Sightings densities for each country depend heavily upon the activities of their respective UFO groups, journals and investigators.

Note the disproportionate sightings densities for Britain and France, compared to Germany, Holland and points east.

The biggest single reason is that Larry Hatch can't read German, Dutch, Polish etc., introducing a very definite "cultural bias".

The map is so farcical, 'showing' countries with a strong tradition of reports that extend until today, like Russia or Germany, almost devoid of sightings, that it must be the right explanation.

 

[INT21]

Analis,


Russia in particular is a bit different to the others.

For most of the last one hundred years it has almost been a closed country. Not much information on anything coming out of it. The political situation being what it was.
What did come out was mostly written in Russian. very few translations.

Also it is a very big country and most of it is uninhabited. So the chances of people even seeing anything odd are reduced. And who would report anything in the sky if it was likely to end up with you in a labour camp. The Russians were very keen on keeping their military secrets, well, secret.

There are some ufos reported from there. not many though.

INT21

 

[JamesWhitehead]

Godfrey may have seen, misremembered or fantasised about the UFO house which was in Todmorden at that time.

Randomly browsing my old FTs last night, I found a short paragraph in FT 320, November, 2014, p.26, in Roberts & Clarke's Flying Saucery Column which makes the same connection between Godfrey and the Futuro home. It refers to the fact that the Futuro "was on display in Todmorden for several months before PC Godfrey had his historic sighting and 'abduction' of 28 November 1980." Well, yes! But which months and how long before is not examined, maybe for brevity's sake. Anyway, it is suggested we compare the Ebay illustration with an article on Godfrey in FT 270.

The immediate hook for the paragraph seems to have been the Ebay sale of a rare Futuro home in May, 2014 for the "relatively small sum of $30,000."

The Ebay illustration is probably long-gone but there is a Youtube video associated with it here:

Futuro home on Youtube.

 

[rynner2]

The Ebay illustration is probably long-gone but there is a Youtube video associated with it here:

Futuro home on Youtube.

That was fascinating!

 

[rynner2]

[double post]

 

[INT21]

...in Roberts & Clarke's Flying Saucery Column which makes the same connection between Godfrey and the Futuro home...

I don't think even Roberts and Clarke would have suggested that the home was parked in the middle of the road when Godfrey drove up to what he saw.

INT21

 

[Zeke Newbold]

Analis,


Russia in particular is a bit different to the others.

For most of the last one hundred years it has almost been a closed country. Not much information on anything coming out of it. The political situation being what it was.
What did come out was mostly written in Russian. very few translations.

Also it is a very big country and most of it is uninhabited. So the chances of people even seeing anything odd are reduced. And who would report anything in the sky if it was likely to end up with you in a labour camp. The Russians were very keen on keeping their military secrets, well, secret.

There are some ufos reported from there. not many though.

INT21

On the contrary.

In 1946 (before the term `flying saucer` was termed) the respected technologist Alexander Kazantsev was openly speculating that the Tunguska fireball of 1908 in Siberia might have been a crashed spaceship. He didn't end up in a labour camp and continued to be much respected.

In 1974 UFOS From Behind the Iron Curtain (Hobana/Verebach) was published in the UK. This focuses mainly on Romania (where the authors came from) but mentions quite a few Russian sightings too.

In 1967 Felix Zigel, a prominent Russian Ufologist was allowed on the state run TV to plead for witness testimonies - many of which he got (that has never happened in the West!)

And in 1990, which was still the Soviet period, one Mikhail Gorbachev told Soviet Youth: `The phenomenon of UFOs does exist and it must be treated seriously` (May 4th, 1990).

You re right about the difficulty of translations: this is the main problem. Let me assure you that the UFO scene is very active and rich otherwise.

 

[dr wu]

So...does anyone want to deconstruct why America has so many sightings...?
Is this about American culture and crazy Americans or do the space aliens simply like America better...?

 

[EnolaGaia]

So...does anyone want to deconstruct why America has so many sightings...?
Is this about American culture and crazy Americans or do the space aliens simply like America better...?

With regard to the historical background for sightings per se (i.e., the proliferation of UFO reports and interest therein following WW2), I would suggest the following contributing factors were in play:

(1) I have no doubt there were more aircraft aloft over the USA than any other region on earth - thus increasing the probability of seeing a flying object one could not explain. This development includes both (a) more chances for folks on the ground to observe something aloft as well as (b) more private / recreational flyers (e.g., Kenneth Arnold) who could encounter anomalous things at altitude.

(2) The relatively unrestricted and commercially-oriented American press facilitated reporting and speculation on UFO events to a degree unmatched in most other regions. Because American entities with airborne objects to hide (e.g., the military) had to come up with (or passively let folks default to ... ) any form of explanation that kept deeper inquiries at bay, there wasn't a draconian suppressive response from authorities.

(3) Retrospective paranoia resulting from Pearl Harbor, combined with rapidly expanding Cold War nuclear mega-paranoia, put average Americans on edge and made them ultra-sensitive to anything that seemed to be an incursion from 'outside' (not just 'outside the borders', but also 'outside the norm').

(4) Owing to an undisturbed nationwide power infrastructure, widespread electrification (since the 1930's), post-war affluence, and the general blowing-off of stress after the war, a lot more Americans were spending a lot more time out and about after dark.

 

[INT21]

That is a tricky one.

But if the sightings are related to nuclear power, it raises another question. Why does France not have more sightings ?
France has 59 nuclear power stations. I don't know it's nuclear weapons status.

So one might expect more sightings.

Perhaps America, with it's many local radio stations and huge public information networks, encourages more people to report what they see. More reports does not necessarily mean more object.
perhaps it is a cultural thing. No one can deny that, as a nation, it is slightly paranoid. McCarthyism and the great communist scare of the past can have people seeing things that are quite natural and believing there is something sinister in them. The chem trail belief is almost entirely an American phenomena.
Could simply be too many episodes of X files etc.

Even so, we still don't seem to get any closer to confirming what the reported objects actually are.
Those who have seen the documentaries on the Stevensville sighting will have noticed that, despite some analysis that would appear to show that there was something there even when the authorities denied it, nothing came from it.
It just dropped off the news.

Anyone have a view on that case ?

Did it get covered on this site ?

Eburacum would insist that it is just more miss-identifications. And he may be right. But until those same miss-identifications are identified there is no way to get to the actual true figure.

INT21

 

[INT21]

Enolagaia,

Looks like our posts crossed.

INT21

 

[eburacum]

Two skeptical articles about the Stephensville case (I presume that is the one you meant?)

http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/svilletx.htm
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/stephenville_lights_what_actually_happened

On January 23, they issued a press release publicly acknowledging the error, stating that F-16s had indeed been flying in the MOA that evening.
What were the aircraft doing? McGaha says they were flying training maneuvers that involved dropping extraordinarily bright flares. The LUU/2B/B flare is nothing like the standard flares you might think of. These flares have an illumination of about two million candlepower. They are intended to light up a vast area of the ground for nighttime aerial attack. Once released, they are suspended by parachutes (which often hover and even rise due to the heat of the flares) and light up a circle on the ground greater than one kilometer for four minutes. The flare casing and parachute are eventually consumed by the heat. At a distance of 150 miles, a single flare can still be as bright as the planet Venus.

McGaha also describes the testimony of a medical helicopter pilot, a retired U.S. Army pilot, flying that night, who saw the lights. He said: “I saw multiple military aircraft, with some dropping flares, in the area of the Brownwood 1 MOA.”

 

[INT21]

Eburacum,

Yes, that's the one. but They don't seem to match well with the reports as per the documentary though.

INT21

 

[Mag-ona]

Asked if there is evidence of alien life, Podesta said, "That's for the public to judge once they've seen all the evidence that the U.S. government has."
When it came to his own beliefs about beings from outer space, Podesta said, "There are a lot of planets out there."
And he made clear: "The American people can handle the truth."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/07/politics/john-podesta-hillary-clinton-ufo/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John Podesta is the Chairman of the 2016 Hillary Clinton presidential campaign.

Podesta previously served as...
Chief of Staff to President Bill Clinton and Counselor to President Barack Obama.

He is the former president and now Chair and Counselor of the Center for American Progress (CAP), a liberal think tank in Washington, D.C., and is also a Visiting Professor of Law at the Georgetown University Law Center. He was a co-chairman of the Obama-Biden Transition Project.

 

[eburacum]

And if he finds nothing will he ever shut up?

 

[bonehead]

So...does anyone want to deconstruct why America has so many sightings...?
Is this about American culture and crazy Americans or do the space aliens simply like America better...?

Maybe the UFOs spy on America more because is America is the most dangerous and batshit crazy country on the planet?

You have been following the news lately, haven't you??

 

[bonehead]

That is a tricky one.

But if the sightings are related to nuclear power, it raises another question. Why does France not have more sightings ?
France has 59 nuclear power stations. I don't know it's nuclear weapons status.

So one might expect more sightings.

What makes you think France has a shortage of sightings? I just posted a couple of these on another thread. But they are cogent here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alejandro-rojas/ufo-buzzed-french-nuclear_b_6558798.html

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/01/french-nuclear-director-says-ufo-was-over-his-plant/

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Gepan-Sepra.htm

If I recall correctly, one of the conclusions of a statistical study associated with "GEPAN" was that UFO sightings appeared more numerous and persistent near nuclear installations....

Perhaps America, with it's many local radio stations and huge public information networks, encourages more people to report what they see. More reports does not necessarily mean more object.
perhaps it is a cultural thing. No one can deny that, as a nation, it is slightly paranoid. McCarthyism and the great communist scare of the past can have people seeing things that are quite natural and believing there is something sinister in them. The chem trail belief is almost entirely an American phenomena.
Could simply be too many episodes of X files etc.

Perhaps paranoia does induce people to see things. America has no shortage there!

Culturally, America has a fixation on technology. I believe that could be a factor for "spaceship" type sightings - and "nuts and bolts" UFO aficionados. But culture influences what people see (or report) in other ways too. For instance, I have been reading many reports from Central and South America where many people live simple rural lives. A lot of these people seem to take these things for granted and do not put as much energy into them as we do in America. Such people are not likely to report sightings - if they even interpret them that way.

Even so, we still don't seem to get any closer to confirming what the reported objects actually are.
Those who have seen the documentaries on the Stevensville sighting will have noticed that, despite some analysis that would appear to show that there was something there even when the authorities denied it, nothing came from it.
It just dropped off the news.

Anyone have a view on that case ?

Did it get covered on this site ?

Eburacum would insist that it is just more miss-identifications. And he may be right. But until those same miss-identifications are identified there is no way to get to the actual true figure.

INT21

Stephenville is a very interesting case. First off, the sightings were in restricted airspace near then president George W. Bush's private ranch. The sightings were corroborated by radar, both civilian and military. And, as you would expect, the Air Force sent F-16s after them when they were seen making a bee-line for the Bush ranch on military radar. Witnesses saw the jets. At first the Air Force denied this, but they later admitted sending F-16s into the area. (Why the official obfuscation?)

That is a lot of confirmation for one report.

But like all UFOs, it went bump in the night without leaving a trace, never to be seen again. What can we deduce from that?

Nada, Nuttin', Zed, Zero, Zilch. Nice story. What it was is anybody's guess. I guess that huge thing that blackened the sky was the planet Venus!

 

[Mag-ona]

John Podesta on UFOs , Area 51 and UFO Disclosure