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Who Ya Gonna Call? Ghost Hunters & Hunting

Ronnie Jersey

Justified & Ancient
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Nov 22, 2021
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Excellent! What I now see is the Mrs, seated, looking down. Behind her is a white haired lady (or a blonde with the lens flare) in a what looks like a crocheted cardigan turned/looking to her right.
What I found confusing was the fuzziness about the head but this seems to be a vase of (dried) flowers between them.
A lack of ghostly legs could be simply down to her adopting a sitting position with her legs over the end of the bench.
It’s the Cumberland Spacemum all over again.
LOL - Have to laugh, because that Cumberland Spaceman photo was so puzzling for years, and you're right, when it was actually shown to be the mother with her back to the camera, that's all I could see after that.
Lighting certainly makes a big difference. Even the most wonderful creatures transcend themselves with the right kind of lighting:
View attachment 51321
Amazing!
 

hunck

Antediluvian
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Hobbs End
The teenager fervently prayed to the God she had vowed to serve in order to be 'made repulsive' to her fiancé and her saviour answered: she awoke with a full beard, her fiancé accordingly called off the marriage and her virginity remained intact. It was, however, a hollow victory: her father, furious that she had disobeyed his will, ordered her to be crucified.'
Harsh.
 

Swifty

doesn't negotiate with terriers
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I'm trying to find a pattern because the white lady is starting to sound like it's just re cycled folklore to me:

The church is called St. Mary's of The Blessed Virgin. Mary in Christianity is usually regarded as a healing presence around the world (to believers that is).

Then we get another Christian woman who God turns into a bearded lady to help her avoid the marriage to a Pagan, but she's then crucified by her father. Is this another source for a white lady ghost legend?

Then we get coffins interred in the crypt sometime in the 1700's that still haven't been buried (I was able to film them) .. could the white lady be a restless spirit from one of these coffins?

Then we get the report of a chap called Green Potter driven mad after seeing a white lady in the early 1800's, then we get the 1971 photograph in this thread to add weight to centuries of previous superstition ...
 

Lb8535

Justified & Ancient
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I'm trying to find a pattern because the white lady is starting to sound like it's just re cycled folklore to me:

The church is called St. Mary's of The Blessed Virgin. Mary in Christianity is usually regarded as a healing presence around the world (to believers that is).

Then we get another Christian woman who God turns into a bearded lady to help her avoid the marriage to a Pagan, but she's then crucified by her father. Is this another source for a white lady ghost legend?

Then we get coffins interred in the crypt sometime in the 1700's that still haven't been buried (I was able to film them) .. could the white lady be a restless spirit from one of these coffins?

Then we get the report of a chap called Green Potter driven mad after seeing a white lady in the early 1800's, then we get the 1971 photograph in this thread to add weight to centuries of previous superstition ...
Well the white lady in 1971 has dark trousers on.
 

Swifty

doesn't negotiate with terriers
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Well the white lady in 1971 has dark trousers on.
She was ahead of her time wasn't she? ( ;) ) ... and not forgetting the woman the church is named after who gave to birth to Jesus a virgin plus the woman who grew a beard over night to repel a pagan man with God's help. That's some pretty miraculous women attached to the history of this church right there. I can't wait to find out who's bodies are in that crypt.
 
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catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
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She was ahead of her time wasn't she? ( ;) ) ... and not forgetting the woman the church is named after who gave to birth to Jesus a virgin plus the woman who grew a beard over night to repel a pagan man with God's help. That's some pretty miraculous women attached to the history of this church right there. I can't wait to find out who's bodies are in that crypt.
So, God could help her grow a beard to repel potential suitors, but couldn't manage a minor miracle to get the poor woman off the cross? Blimey, He's picky with His working in a mysterious way, isn't he?
 

Swifty

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CALGACUS03

Ephemeral Spectre
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I've just learned that the church also has a patron saint woman (St. Uncumber) who was against being pushed around by men. She's celebrated on one of the rood screens
Cheers for that @Swifty - it led me down an internet rabbithole of learning who St. Uncumber (also known as Wilgefortis) actually was. According to Wikipedia (I know, I know) a "fictitious female folk saint venerated by Catholics whose legend arose in the 14th century,[1] and whose distinguishing feature is a large beard".

The Wikipedia entry here says that she came about because of a tunic wearing, bearded representation of Christ:

"Art historians have argued that the origins of the art can be found with Eastern-style representations of the crucified Christ, and in particular the Holy Face of Lucca, a large 11th-century carved wooden figure of Christ on the Cross (now replaced by a 13th-century copy), bearded like a man, but dressed in a full-length tunic that might have appeared to be like that of a woman instead of the loin cloth familiar and by the Late Middle Ages normal in depictions in the West.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilgefortis#cite_note-6

The theory is that when the composition was copied and brought north of the Alps over the next 150 years, in small copies by pilgrims and dealers, this unfamiliar image led Northerners to create a narrative to explain the androgynous icon.[6] Some older images of the crucified Christ were repurposed as Wilgefortis, and new images clearly intended to represent the saint created, many with female clothes and breasts."

I still like to learn something new every day!:bthumbup:

ETA: [I also learned that 'uncumber' (rather than unencomber) is actually a word (although archaic)]

ETA2: I can understand the confusion :eek: :
1643366394318.png
 
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catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
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So it was. Thank you for the correction Floyd.

This link reports a couple of more alleged sightings since then. A fish and chip van still parks in front of the church once a week. One of the previous owners (or still the current one?) claims to have seen the white lady.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/lifestyle/heritage/weird-norfolk-worstead-white-lady-ghost-photo-6854198
I think the phrase THE white lady can be misleading. Maybe people are not all seeing the same thing, but because the location comes loaded with a story of a white lady, then any anomalous occurences get lumped in with The White Lady. Maybe there are many White Ladies.
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
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Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Cheers for that @Swifty - it led me down an internet rabbithole of learning who St. Uncumber (also known as Wilgefortis) actually was. According to Wikipedia (I know, I know) a "fictitious female folk saint venerated by Catholics whose legend arose in the 14th century,[1] and whose distinguishing feature is a large beard".

The Wikipedia entry here says that she came about because of a tunic wearing, bearded representation of Christ:

"Art historians have argued that the origins of the art can be found with Eastern-style representations of the crucified Christ, and in particular the Holy Face of Lucca, a large 11th-century carved wooden figure of Christ on the Cross (now replaced by a 13th-century copy), bearded like a man, but dressed in a full-length tunic that might have appeared to be like that of a woman instead of the loin cloth familiar and by the Late Middle Ages normal in depictions in the West.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilgefortis#cite_note-6

The theory is that when the composition was copied and brought north of the Alps over the next 150 years, in small copies by pilgrims and dealers, this unfamiliar image led Northerners to create a narrative to explain the androgynous icon.[6] Some older images of the crucified Christ were repurposed as Wilgefortis, and new images clearly intended to represent the saint created, many with female clothes and breasts."

I still like to learn something new every day!:bthumbup:

ETA: [I also learned that 'uncumber' (rather than unencomber) is actually a word (although archaic)]

ETA2: I can understand the confusion :eek: :
View attachment 51340
Jesus was transgender?
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
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Messages
11,564
So, God could help her grow a beard to repel potential suitors, but couldn't manage a minor miracle to get the poor woman off the cross? Blimey, He's picky with His working in a mysterious way, isn't he?

From my atheistic viewpoint, God was thinking long-term: “Save one bint from having some sense nailed into her: 15 minutes’ fame. Leave it to play out, and they’ll still be talking about me in 2022. Sorry, pet lamb, it’s Hammer Time…”

maximus otter
 

Swifty

doesn't negotiate with terriers
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Jesus was transgender?
The LGBT community are fond of St Encumber .. this from an EDP link:

'Adopted by the LGBTQ community as a heroine and a kindred spirit who did not engage in heterosexual activity, Saint Encumber is regularly pictured as a bearded woman on a crucifix in Latin America and Europe, but images of her in Britain are rare. There is, however, one to be spotted in a beautiful Norfolk church (Worstead) which is famous in strange circles for an entirely different lady (another story for another day) on the chancel rood screen which was donated by John and Alice Albastur in 1512.'
 

Swifty

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I've just found this, the son (David Berthelot) thanking the Rev Sharon Willimott for her support when his parents died. I'm hoping to talk to David about his memories of that day and that picture (he was 12 years old at the time and also in the church) ... and then it suddenly occurred to me, the Rev Sharon Willimott is now the Rev of a small Methodist church in Cromer, I've even met her and might even still have her business card. Who knew reverends even have business cards? .. but Sharon does.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/family-notices/in-memoriam/peter-and-diane-berthelot-300958
 
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Lb8535

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Can't ghosts wear clothes?
They are generally seen with clothing all of which projects "ghost", in this case "glowing white". The trousers do not. And a ghost in trousers in 1971 is not the white lady of prior centuries. If you're going to comment on a "ghost" picture then you have to expect analyses of the picture.
 

Sabresonic

Abominable Snowman
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LOL - Have to laugh, because that Cumberland Spaceman photo was so puzzling for years, and you're right, when it was actually shown to be the mother with her back to the camera, that's all I could see after that.

Amazing!
Didn't the guy who took the photo get a visit from the MIB ?
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
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The LGBT community are fond of St Encumber .. this from an EDP link:

'Adopted by the LGBTQ community as a heroine and a kindred spirit who did not engage in heterosexual activity, Saint Encumber is regularly pictured as a bearded woman on a crucifix in Latin America and Europe, but images of her in Britain are rare. There is, however, one to be spotted in a beautiful Norfolk church (Worstead) which is famous in strange circles for an entirely different lady (another story for another day) on the chancel rood screen which was donated by John and Alice Albastur in 1512.'

They discussed her on QI XL last week! Still on iPlayer...
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
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'Adopted by the LGBTQ community as a heroine and a kindred spirit who did not engage in heterosexual activity,

But she was celibate! She didn't engage in ANY sexual activity!
 

IbisNibs

Exotic animal, sort of . . .
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Outside my comfort zone.
A fish and chip van still parks in front of the church once a week. One of the previous owners (or still the current one?) claims to have seen the white lady.
I'm a white lady. All kinds of people could claim to have seen me. :p
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
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What's an 'Ephemeral Spectre'??

It's one of the standard / default 'trophies' awarded forum members for longevity, number of posts, etc. There's a hierarchy of such trophies. The full default hierarchy can be reviewed at:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?help/trophies/

These are automatically displayed for members who haven't implemented a custom title for themselves (e.g., Maximum Otter's "Recovering policeman").

You can enter a custom title at: Your Account: Account Details
(Click on your username at the top of the page and select Account Details)
 

Ronnie Jersey

Justified & Ancient
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It's one of the standard / default 'trophies' awarded forum members for longevity, number of posts, etc. There's a hierarchy of such trophies. The full default hierarchy can be reviewed at:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?help/trophies/

These are automatically displayed for members who haven't implemented a custom title for themselves (e.g., Maximum Otter's "Recovering policeman").

You can enter a custom title at: Your Account: Account Details
(Click on your username at the top of the page and select Account Details)
Now I see why 'You knew the job was dangerous when you took it!' LOL
 
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