Why Haven't Aliens Contacted Us Yet? (Fermi Paradox)

Shady

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Don't victims of alien abduction, especially women, report that they have babies with the aliens?
 

dr wu

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No it wasn't - lame maybe but not simply humour. It is a reasonable (under the circumstances) suggestion :)
You can do better....do you honestly think that an advanced race would need us for fur coats.....really?
Do I need to post an eye rolling icon?
;)
 

dr wu

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Don't victims of alien abduction, especially women, report that they have babies with the aliens?
Yes...in the past this was a common alien theme with some abductions...the idea has quieted down in the last decade or so.
Again this would only be feasable if the aliens had similar genetics.....but even then to what purpose? If they are that advacnced what do they need human material for at all? It all seems.....a bit absurd when you really think about it.
 

Georgek

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Well, yeah, because when you have dedicated your life to 12+ years of rigorous university study and, more importantly... peer review (Peer review is super-important. Here is a link that will explain why), and then gone into a professional life where you have dedicated your life to obtaining reliable and repeatable experimental results and following the most rigorous scientific methodology you can, based on international best practice, the individuals involved have actually bothered to really engage with the information at the deepest level possible. Now compare that to most amateurs, or worse, actual frauds, and you can see why the academics are skeptical.

Now I won't say that there isn't a bit of professional jealousy involved, and the astronomers and physicists aren't protecting their professional territory like a medieval guild privilege, but they also guarantee us a much higher and more reliable measure of quality than the amateurs. More importantly, the professional academics have generally replicated their results multiple times, and anyone following in their footsteps can achieve the same results. Very few amateurs ever do that, but that is not the same as saying that no amateur scientists do that, for example, here is a short list of some very famous and successful amateurs: Famous amateur scientists link.

The main thing that I rely on academics for is to ferret out frauds via peer review.

As to the black hole photo, once you come to terms with how amazingly difficult even that "blurry photo" was to take, is seems miraculous. For a start, black holes are black, and space is black, so there's that. Then you have the issue that black holes swallow even light. Then there is the issue of the incredible distances involved. The fact is that the glowing part is merely the light particles being sucked into the black hole, and in fact the, black part in the middle, which is the actual black hole is not blurry, and would normally be completely invisible.
Hmmm....

I will just start to answer this one.

It goes higher than that to the public. It is the public that decide by engaging the scientist into what THEY want to hear.
As most of society do not believe (never mind what they say) they pick their senators and presidents and sack them when they say something distasteful.

No one is going to place their hard earned reputation on things that are debatable . You only have to read your history to see that it is filled with bigotry and prejudice. Great scientists like Galileo, Einstein and many more were hailed lunatics, but fought for what they believed in.

It is simply not the case of rejection, but down right prejudice and none belief that should never ever be the obstacle

Most academics are brainwashed. They are not necessarily intelligent because they cannot break away from their learned culture which teaches them that A=B+C and so on. They do not have unrelated thought patterns as all they are is KNOWLEDGEABLE.

They cannot use their brains outside to what had been 'pumped in'

I can! My intelligence flows in a different way as I can look at something and blooming work it out!

To show you how daft they are...they say that aliens do not exist because there is no proof. So instead they send probes to Mars as to look for life under rocks! For God sake...why does everything have to be lower than them?????

You get a village idiot who can look at the sky at night and see millions of stars and even realises that there are millions more. It then becomes bloody obvious that there has to be some form of life out there?

So they send probes into space as well as SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) by sending recordings of Mick Jagger and pictures of the president. Wow......hold on......(is it me or what?) it gets worse because THESE aliens are meant to be able to travel vast distances and have a technology far in advanced to be able to build their craft to travel vast distances. So what the blooming heck do they want with Mick Jagger and recordings in primitive English with fingers pointing at the fifth dot in our solar system??? Are they blooming stupid??? And they call ME stupid lol

once you come to terms
What terms....lol?

Is there a war on?

Hold on...it gets even worse....folks listen to all this.

AND...(wait for it)

I am meant to be mad and they are okay !!

The aliens have mastered our languages, science and even our culture...give them credit and Ia m meant to be the idiot!

Terms or no terms...it still looks like a blooming black blurry image as I could not care less whether they exist or do not...as who the heck cares billions of miles away if my writing pad gets sucked up there? As I am sure there is gonna be some b*g*er with a pick axe flying up there to build a house. At least my picture is only 70 miles away.
 
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eburacum

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What's the likelihood that two separate alien races far apart in the space would have the same panspermia material hit their planets..?
Panspermia within an open cluster seems to be reasonably likely. I would expect a fairly large number of worlds with shared ancestral DNA among star systems that originated in the same cluster. Unfortunately the stars in a cluster don't stay particularly close together- after four billion years, we have drifted apart from the other stars that originated in our own birth cluster, and there probably aren't many of our stellar siblings within a hundred light years of our Sun.

In any case it is the amino acids, carbohydrates, proteins and trace elements that determine whether an alien lifeform is edible, rather than the DNA directly. If an alien lifeform has the wrong amino acids or sugars, they couldn't eat us and we couldn't eat them (or at best we might give them severe indigestion).
 

gerhard1

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Then why does this not apply to what NASA have shown in their early pictures?

You still do not get the point.

Regardless if what you can or cannot see by the inferior structure of my picture it is clearer and BETTER that that taken by the NASA astronauts on their space mission. Anyone can see that the pictures are identical irregardless of their purity.

The point that I was putting across was:-

I have contained a picture which is identical in structure but better in quality which resembles identically to one taken by NASA. Assuming that both pictures depict the same area (which you have avoided answering) then it has to show that the picture that I had provided, must have been taken from a space craft through the absence of horizontal satellite lines.

Irregardless the truth is there and the lines and dots synchronise in the exact the manner that shows the truth.

Believe what you like, but then ypu will need to validate your reasoning to thousands of other pictures taken by NASA.

So what do you see here 'gerhard1' ?



https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/13/18308652/katie-bouman-black-hole-science-internet

Go and tell science that there is nothing there as it is a blurred picture of a doughnut.

Ahhh...that is different because they are respectable.

Tell us why this is NOT proof of a Black Hole as all you can see is a blurred image.

So what Mr 'gerhard1' is telling me/us, is that it is not what you have what counts but WHO you are!



I get the point that you say the picture is 'proof' of ET contact involving you. I don't see it myself. If NASA says that it's pictures were of Cyprus, I accept it. I also accept that your picture is of Cyprus. So what? That doesn't prove that the pictures are extraterrestrial in origin.

And what have I not answered? To tell the truth I don't recall any questions. As far as the object in the photograph* is concerned, I gather that it is a picture of what scientists believe is a 'black hole' and I have no reason to doubt them. But, since I lack any substantial astronomical knowledge, I really can't say whether this is 'proof' of a black hole or not. But this begs the question of whether the photograph that you seem to base your case on, provides proof of ET contact with you. What you are doing is assuming that the picture was or is of ET origin without a shred of evidence, other than your belief that it is.

Put another way, what evidence is there that the picture is of ET origin other than it has greater detail than one that NASA puts forth? And does not prudence demand that conventional explanations be exhausted before the unconventional answers are taken on?

You do me a grave disservice when you say:

So what Mr 'gerhard1' is telling me/us, is that it is not what you have what counts but WHO you are!
Not at all, noble sir. All I want is credible evidence of an assertion, regardless of the source, that I can look at and evaluate. You have yet to provide such evidence.

It's that simple.

*ETA The one identified as a 'black hole'
 
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Georgek

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I get the point that you say the picture is 'proof' of ET contact involving you. I don't see it myself. If NASA says that it's pictures were of Cyprus, I accept it. I also accept that your picture is of Cyprus. So what? That doesn't prove that the pictures are extraterrestrial in origin.
There is a philosophy of variables and constants. If we take away what it cannot be, then it leaves us what it can be. You say that it is no proof...then who took the photograph? Something did? Whether it is a ghost (and a blooming good one) it has some mark of unorthodox origin which deploys questions arising on how it got there . If I walk along a road and fall ten feet down, do I naturally assume that I fell in hole or do I take the view that my elevation had altered? Do I need proof to otherwise suggest that I broke my neck or could the evidence be sustained be related to my foot?

I have no reason to doubt them.
What does that mean...do you accept or just being a healthy agnostic? Or is it simply because they wear suits and are many ......that they do not have the common sense to realise that the grains of stars in the sky are like dust that relate to life? Or do you not doubt that as well?
Then how do you deploy your energy? You talk of proof as you can believe what you like but what other way can this proof be found?

I just cannot see what plausible explanation can be forthcoming when it is impossible to have a picture taken deep in space which shows explicit detail that is plausible and consistent with that taken by Apollo? Of course you are entitled to your opinion.

Not at all, noble sir. All I want is credible evidence of an assertion, regardless of the source, that I can look at and evaluate. You have yet to provide such evidence.
How do I know what planet they come from...lol? (if any) Or maybe they do not to be interviewed? I think there was a case when a man got run over by a bus from behind that left a tyre mark on his head? The insurance company wanted to know the bus number...but the zig-zag on his head left by the tyre was evident enough without chasing up the bus driver. Proof? Try telling him that.

What does this source mean? You have got me as you have got the scientist who found the black hole.

(Moma told me there would be days like these)
 

Carl Grove

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But then there are reasons why they might not want to say hello.....an interesting little piece on the Fermi Paradox..
https://www.universetoday.com/103061/where-are-all-the-aliens/
I still think we may be assuming too much -- by searching for radio signals, for example, when other beings may have mastered telepathy, and may have already organised their civilisations in a totally different way. Here and there in the esoteric literature you find hints that the really advanced ones avoid Earth like the plague. That suggests maybe that if anyone is visiting us, they are not the nicest ones! Interesting how that article doesn't even mention the possibility that UFOs do represent alien visitation. If they do then the Fermi paradox would be irrelevant.
 
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dr wu

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I still think we may be assuming too much -- by searching for radio signals, for example, when other beings may have mastered telepathy, and may have already organised their civilisations in a totally different way. Here and there in the esoteric literature you find hints that the really advanced ones avoid Earth like the plague. That suggests maybe that if anyone is visiting us, they are not the nicest ones! Interesting how that article doesn't even mention the possibility that UFOs do represent alien visitation. If they do then the Fermi paradox would be irrelevant.
Telepathy is such a speculative and uproven scientific aspect that imho it's not even worth discussing it at this stage... . It's the stuff of science fiction not science fact.
Esoteric literature..? Can you cite something relevant, from where..? Again not sure how relevant that is when we get to the hard facts of things.
The Fermi Paradox stands on it;s own merits....and ufos have nothing to do with it unless o f course one can prove they are alien in origin....good luck with that.
;)
 

Naughty_Felid

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I still think we may be assuming too much -- by searching for radio signals, for example, when other beings may have mastered telepathy, and may have already organised their civilisations in a totally different way. Here and there in the esoteric literature you find hints that the really advanced ones avoid Earth like the plague. That suggests maybe that if anyone is visiting us, they are not the nicest ones! Interesting how that article doesn't even mention the possibility that UFOs do represent alien visitation. If they do then the Fermi paradox would be irrelevant.

like what? Christ almighty cite something Carl.
 

Carl Grove

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Telepathy is such a speculative and uproven scientific aspect that imho it's not even worth discussing it at this stage... . It's the stuff of science fiction not science fact.
Well, without making a big thing about it, many studies of telepathy have obtained small levels of performance, albeit highly significant statistically. So there is nothing speculative about it, and no, it's not proven as nothing can be proven in science anyway. If you had experienced it yourself, you might have a different attitude.
To say that UFOs "have nothing to do with it" is quite weird. Even if you think (as I do) that they do not necessarily represent extraterrestrial visitation, it is one major theory about them, and is surely extremely relevant to the Fermi Paradox.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Well, without making a big thing about it, many studies of telepathy have obtained small levels of performance, albeit highly significant statistically. So there is nothing speculative about it, and no, it's not proven as nothing can be proven in science anyway. If you had experienced it yourself, you might have a different attitude.
To say that UFOs "have nothing to do with it" is quite weird. Even if you think (as I do) that they do not necessarily represent extraterrestrial visitation, it is one major theory about them, and is surely extremely relevant to the Fermi Paradox.

Can you cite examples of the studies?
 

Naughty_Felid

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Well, without making a big thing about it, many studies of telepathy have obtained small levels of performance, albeit highly significant statistically. So there is nothing speculative about it, and no, it's not proven as nothing can be proven in science anyway. If you had experienced it yourself, you might have a different attitude.
To say that UFOs "have nothing to do with it" is quite weird. Even if you think (as I do) that they do not necessarily represent extraterrestrial visitation, it is one major theory about them, and is surely extremely relevant to the Fermi Paradox.
what?
 

Carl Grove

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like what? Christ almighty cite something Carl.
I didn't think anyone would be especially interested, but in the Sufi tradition, Earth is often described as a place where people suffer from a form of amnesia or perceptual blindness, hence our history of sustained idiocy, violence and oppression.
Can you cite examples of the studies?
If you want I shall search for some references but I imagined that most people in the Fortean scene would have some awareness of parapsychological research.
 

Carl Grove

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Do I have to explain every sentence? Nothing is ever "proven" in science because "proof" is not a scientific concept. It is a logical concept and a mathematical concept, even (without much jusitification) a legal concept. All you can do is to compare experimental predictions with data -- the theory that performs best is taken as the leading theory, but it can never be proven. For centuries Newton's theory was in the lead in the physical field, then Einstein put forward a theory that explains one key datum that Newton fails on, the orbit of Mercury, and which predicts novel effects for objects moving at high speeds relative to each other, that have been tested and confirmed. But in time that theory will be overtaken by new data -- for example, evidence of superluminal velocities -- and a new theory will be required.
If UFOs do represent extraterrestrial visitation, then they would possibly be thousands or even millions of years ahead of us. Our current theories will seem completely primitive and irrelevant to them. To say nothing of the possibility that they have IQs in the 1000s and we would be incapable to even beginning to understand them.
 

Naughty_Felid

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I didn't think anyone would be especially interested, but in the Sufi tradition, Earth is often described as a place where people suffer from a form of amnesia or perceptual blindness

If you want I shall search for some references but I imagined that most people in the Fortean scene would have some awareness of parapsychological research.
thanks that would be useful. If you are presenting evidence then do so. That's what most of us in the "Fortean Scene" try to do otherwise you just come across as patronizing and woo-woo.

Sufism - it's one belief system.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Do I have to explain every sentence? Nothing is ever "proven" in science because "proof" is not a scientific concept. It is a logical concept and a mathematical concept, even (without much jusitification) a legal concept. All you can do is to compare experimental predictions with data -- the theory that performs best is taken as the leading theory, but it can never be proven. For centuries Newton's theory was in the lead in the physical field, then Einstein put forward a theory that explains one key datum that Newton fails on, the orbit of Mercury, and which predicts novel effects for objects moving at high speeds relative to each other, that have been tested and confirmed. But in time that theory will be overtaken by new data -- for example, evidence of superluminal velocities -- and a new theory will be required.
If UFOs do represent extraterrestrial visitation, then they would possibly be thousands or even millions of years ahead of us. Our current theories will seem completely primitive and irrelevant to them. To say nothing of the possibility that they have IQs in the 1000s and we would be incapable to even beginning to understand them.
Totally agree - why don't you apply that to your obvious belief in little green men. Again Carl you could do with dropping the superciliousness.
 

feinman

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Telepathy is such a speculative and uproven scientific aspect that imho it's not even worth discussing it at this stage... . It's the stuff of science fiction not science fact.
Esoteric literature..? Can you cite something relevant, from where..? Again not sure how relevant that is when we get to the hard facts of things.
The Fermi Paradox stands on it;s own merits....and ufos have nothing to do with it unless o f course one can prove they are alien in origin....good luck with that.
;)
Well for folks who do believe in UFOs (you know what I mean :)), things have been going quite well! Recently, Elizondo, Podesta, Mellon, fighter pilots have all come out, discussing what they are able to legally discuss and mentioning there is much more they can't. Bigelow shocked everyone on 60 minutes: "They are right under are nose", the Pentagon admits they study them --they are being called UFOs, not just UAPs. They appear to have the same forms and characteristics as those seen back in the '50s and they are behaving in ways that are progressively alarming members of the armed forces... A very good time for UFO believers. Never thought I'd see these days actually.. :cool: And more is to come out; do you think everything will be retracted and all will proclaim they were just hallucinations or natural phenomena? I really doubt it. No chance they are from a foreign power, so that leaves...
 

Carl Grove

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Totally agree - why don't you apply that the evidence of little green men. Again Carl you could do with dropping the superciliousness.
Well, I am sure that you are winding me up now. Surely you know that (to the best of my knowledge) nobody has ever actually reported little green men in connection with UFOs! I am sure you are also aware that there have been many thousands of cases in which humanoid beings have been reported associated with landed UFOs, also many cases where landings have left physical traces of various types. So there is no doubt that something is going on, but whether it implies aliens or maybe fairies or jinn, or something from the collective unconscious -- we don't know.
thanks that would be useful. If you are presenting evidence then do so. That's what most of us in the "Fortean Scene" try to do otherwise you just come across as patronizing and woo-woo.

Sufism - it's one belief system.
No, actually it isn't a belief system. An educational system maybe.

I'm not sure what woo-woo means but it doesn't sound very nice!
 

dr wu

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Well, without making a big thing about it, many studies of telepathy have obtained small levels of performance, albeit highly significant statistically. So there is nothing speculative about it, and no, it's not proven as nothing can be proven in science anyway. If you had experienced it yourself, you might have a different attitude.
To say that UFOs "have nothing to do with it" is quite weird. Even if you think (as I do) that they do not necessarily represent extraterrestrial visitation, it is one major theory about them, and is surely extremely relevant to the Fermi Paradox.
Well....none of the telepathic studies have been verified by day to day science as far as I know though I do agree that some parapsychological things have been done. And of course many things have been proven by science(until unproven..)....I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can you cite an example for me? I read your reply to Naughty but it s a little unclear imo. Again what documentation is there for ufos and telepathy..again this is all anecdotal....and specifically how is it relevant to the Fermi Paradox?


as a side note regarding Sufism...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism
he Arabic word tasawwuf (lit. being or becoming a Sufi), generally translated as Sufism, is commonly defined by Western authors as Islamic mysticism.[20][21] The Arabic term sufi has been used in Islamic literature with a wide range of meanings, by both proponents and opponents of Sufism.[20] Classical Sufi texts, which stressed certain teachings and practices of the Quran and the sunnah (exemplary teachings and practices of the Islamic prophet Muhammad), gave definitions of tasawwuf that described ethical and spiritual goals[note 1] and functioned as teaching tools for their attainment. Many other terms that described particular spiritual qualities and roles were used instead in more practical contexts.[20][21]

Some modern scholars have used other definitions of Sufism such as "intensification of Islamic faith and practice"[20] and "process of realizing ethical and spiritual ideals".[21]

The term Sufism was originally introduced into European languages in the 18th century by Orientalist scholars, who viewed it mainly as an intellectual doctrine and literary tradition at variance with what they saw as sterile monotheism of Islam. In modern scholarly usage the term serves to describe a wide range of social, cultural, political and religious phenomena associated with Sufis.[21]
 
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feinman

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Well....none of the telepathic studies have been verified by day to day science as far as I know though I do agree that some parapsychological things have been done. And of course many things have been proven by science....I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can you cite an example for me? I read your reply to Naughty but it s a little unclear imo. Again what documentation is there for ufos and telepathy..again this is all anecdotal....and specifically how is it relevant to the Fermi Paradox?
A lot of parapsychological studies have been done:
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/search/site/precognition?page=11
 

dr wu

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Well for folks who do believe in UFOs (you know what I mean :)), things have been going quite well! Recently, Elizondo, Podesta, Mellon, fighter pilots have all come out, discussing what they are able to legally discuss and mentioning there is much more they can't. Bigelow shocked everyone on 60 minutes: "They are right under are nose", the Pentagon admits they study them --they are being called UFOs, not just UAPs. They appear to have the same forms and characteristics as those seen back in the '50s and they are behaving in ways that are progressively alarming members of the armed forces... A very good time for UFO believers. Never thought I'd see these days actually.. :cool: And more is to come out; do you think everything will be retracted and all will proclaim they were just hallucinations or natural phenomena? I really doubt it. No chance they are from a foreign power, so that leaves...
In all fairness ...I see no change from the past in the way it's received by the public and science,,,,, it's the same old thing....,when we actually get public recognition or acknowledgement...give me a call. ;)
 

dr wu

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feinman

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In all fairness ...I see no change from the past it's the same old thing....when we actually get public recognition or acknowledgement...give me a call. ;)
The fact we are still studying it, it hasn't changed and the government still keeps it secret and lies about it, says quite a bit, to me.
 
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