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Time Or Dimensional Slips

rynner2 said:
No, Einstein established that time and space are relative - in other words, there is no absolute time or space.

I've discussed this before - if you say 'the planet is no longer there' you need to explain where 'there' is. What is this position relative to? The earth, the sun, the centre of the galaxy? Since Einstein also explained gravity in his general theory, it seems to me that the most consistent way of thinking about time or dimension slips, or ghosts even, is to assume that these things remain trapped by the strongest gravitational field locally. So all things that originate on earth somehow remain on earth, or at least within its gravitational sphere of influence.
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I would argue that the planet would have changed position relative to itself to a distance of velocity x time. If an object on that planet was moved in time relative to its own starting point then I would assume it had been uncoupled from the "normal" flow of time and therefore the change in position would no longer match that of the planet.
I like the idea of the time sliding object being trapped by the strongest gravitational field - but complete with velocity and vectors to put it in the right place on the ground? Why doesn't this time travelling object get pulled to the centre of the planet, or a lagrangian point? Does the moon distort where it ends up? Sorry but I still prefer simulation glitches :)
 
This was a point I addressed in my report on the Rougham mystery (which included at least one mystery cat sighting). I don't know of any time slip case in which (eg) witnesses saw half of a house, or shop, or anything. The boundaries are set by features in the environment, not random (as you might predict if a worm-hole were to appear suddenly--not a theory I go for anyway). In one Liverpool case, the witness exited the slip by moving from one street to another -- when he looked back he could still see people from the 1960s in the other street. I think this goes beyond the general influence of gravitational field. I think the key to the problem is torsion energy. It has something to do with time (cf Kozyrev) and is associated with specific locations. The ancients knew about it and placed their stone circles and other structures in areas with high energy. Even today time slip cases occur in those places.
 
And I agree with Roland! Ultimately a simulation model is the only way of accounting for time slips. This is a conclusion I never wanted to come to, but appeals to Physics just don't work.
 
Roland Deschain said:
I would argue that the planet would have changed position relative to itself to a distance of velocity x time. If an object on that planet was moved in time relative to its own starting point then I would assume it had been uncoupled from the "normal" flow of time and therefore the change in position would no longer match that of the planet.
I like the idea of the time sliding object being trapped by the strongest gravitational field - but complete with velocity and vectors to put it in the right place on the ground? Why doesn't this time travelling object get pulled to the centre of the planet, or a lagrangian point? Does the moon distort where it ends up? Sorry but I still prefer simulation glitches :)
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That sparked off a thought in my head.
Suppose fluctuations in Earth's gravity well cause a concentration of gravity that attracts a travelling wormhole?
Perhaps there are zillions of these invisible wormholes flying around, winking in and out of existence?
Perhaps a gravitational concentration is just enough to trap one at random, which then connects the current time to some other time?

I know, I know...crazy...
 
rynner2 said:
I love these crazy hand-waving theories!

But if you can't describe the theory in mathematical terms, it's unlikely to reach flying speed!
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[waves hands wildly]
I just need to get Stephen Hawking on board with the idea...he can do the maths.
He can also talk bollocks and people will believe him.
 
Perhaps there are zillions of these invisible wormholes flying around, winking in and out of existence?
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Perhaps there are - at the Plank Scale:
https://www.sissa.it/news/where-space-time-becomes-discrete

The problem with any wormhole is getting information through it. Wormholes as presently proposed are a bit tricky (and no good for time travel):
http://www.space.com/20881-wormholes.html

As for the universe being a simulation and time slips and other Fortean events being 'glitches' or bugs, I rather think they are cunningly designed stress tests and all go exactly to plan..... or at least thats what the annual reports claim.
 
I wonder if wormholes might be linked to darkenergy - the cartilage of spacetime ever growing. Not good for space travel, perhaps essential for the fundamental structure of our bit of The Bulk.

And other parts of this thread have just jogged my memory, a few years ago (2012, just checked) a University of Washington team proposed an experiment to test if the universe is a simulation. Just Googled this and found the original references but no sign the experiment will be / is being / has been run.
 
I can't imagine any experiment that would confirm that the universe is a simulation, since if any experiment is run in a simulation it will apparently support the reality of what we are seeing. The only way would be to develop a perception of what is Real, as the mystical teachers claim. Here is a possible approach, although exactly how it is done is not specified: http://www.theoscillatinguniverse.co.uk/home-and-introduction.php
Incidentally, when I gave this link to Brian Whitworth, he said it was exactly what he is getting at.
 
Just gone back to read the source press material from 2012 on a proposed test to discover if we live in a simulation. It's spacebat's* crazy, but it boils down to a fundamental property of the ultra-programmer(s) Physics Engine generating measurable constraints in (their) space-time model. Looks like you need a grasp of quantum chromodynamics to understand why 'they' had to write in these constraints, and why these constraints are absent in an unsimulated universe.

On the Oscillating Universe - I came across Idries Shah when I was interested in Gurdjieff but had completely forgotten about that! Thanks for the link Carl. These notions that the universe is a shadow of something bigger, or a hologram, and time is illusory have a deep resonance. I've read many accounts of 'enlightenment', awakenings or the gaining of insight that seem compelling, but I can discern no patterns or processes that lead to these states. Eckhart Tolle had a rough night of existential despair, and awoke the next morning with a new consciousness. Apparently.

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* From The Fast Show (I think I posted this recently on another thread):
[Prof. D.Dexter] "I was educated at the Woodrow Wilson Institute of Science between the years 1967-1969. At this time, people like Prof. Timothy Leary were advocating philosophies such as tune in, turn on and drop out... and there was also the heavy use of hallucinogenic drugs. Can I just say at this point that these theories in no way affected my research and my philosophy."
[Cameraman] "And what exactly are you researching at the moment Prof. Dexter?"
[Prof. D.Dexter] "Space Bats."
[Cameraman]"Space Bats?"
[Prof. D.Dexter] "You bet your ass..."
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So is Stone Tape Theory out of the question, wherein the "recordings" are deeper and more interactive than previously noticed?
 
I didn't begin to understand the argument, but would still say that you can't use the concepts of quantum theory or computing power, that all originate in the simulation, to say anything about the nature of the simulation. It must work in a qualitatively different fashion. Maybe...

Stone Tape theory might explain sightings of static houses or other structures but when movement and interaction occur it fails. And an amazing number of time slip cases now do involve interaction. Actually it would have been my favourite theory when I started looking into Rougham, or if I had ignored all the other cases.
 
Carl Grove said:
Stone Tape theory might explain sightings of static houses or other structures but when movement and interaction occur it fails. And an amazing number of time slip cases now do involve interaction. Actually it would have been my favourite theory when I started looking into Rougham, or if I had ignored all the other cases.
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I'd enjoy some more clarity on the highlighted section: are you saying that recent reports of time slip cases more frequently involve interaction in comparison to older reports, which tended to be of static sightings? Or have I misunderstood?
 
There are certainly more such cases around now, compared, say, with 30 years ago. Only a few cases (Versailles, Yarmouth, Kersey) were then widely known. Now you can find many cases involving interaction, social and physical, on the internet. Some of the cases posted recently do actually go back 30 odd years ago, suggesting that people were more reluctant to report them -- or didn't know who to report them to. So there are two factors, one the phenomenon itself, and the other increased public recognition of it. What is without precedent is the extraordinary number of cases reported from Liverpool. To have maybe 100 cases, a high percentage of which are Type 4s, reported in such a relatively small area, is without precedent. As yet nobody has mounted a thorough study there -- it is long overdue.
 
The number of stories from Liverpool is probably not unconnected with the prolific writings, on ghosts, etc, by Tom Slemen. He's all over the internet. Does he just collect these stories, or embellish them or even - gasp! - make them up? It would take a lot of time to catch up with all his stuff.
 
I don't think he makes them up, but he certainly aims to fascinate the reader! Most of the reports don't come directly from him, and they are dramatic enough not to need much embellishment anyway. Even if you ruled out all of his cases, Liverpool would still be the leading time slip centre.
 
Ok so big cats and big foots could be visitors from the past. But how come no land dinosaurs?

Also with so many people having cameras on their phones when are we going to get a time slip picture?
 
MorningAngel said:
Also with so many people having cameras on their phones when are we going to get a time slip picture?
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I propose that most, if not all, Fortean events, are purely mental. I don't mean they are 'just' hallucinations, or imagination, but that they are an interaction of our brains with some non-material field which so far is inaccessible to science. The brain accesses information from this field and interprets it the best it can.

But what is reported as being seen is not actually 'there', and so cannot be photographed or detected by any of the instruments so beloved by ghost-hunters, etc.

The non-material field can be called spiritual, or psychic, or any number of things, and all sorts of theories can be proposed as to how it's created, but in truth we know almost nothing about it except for the fact that it influences the most complex object we know about, the brain, with its billions of electro-chemical connections.

One day, perhaps, science will be able to get a handle on all this, but I'm not holding my breath!
 
I don't think they are _entirely_ mental - but I agree with the rest. Some stimulus is being received by the brain and may even be being processed correctly, but our conscious mind has no reference material to give it a proper context so it is doing the best it can, gluing together bits of things we do know about (from science to folklore) to cover the situation.
 
Quite a few time slips (those I have called Type 4) do involve physical or social interactions. In some cases money has changed hands, purchases made, etc. Physical damage has occasionally been done to the witness (in one example a lady allegedly sustained a slash from a Roman trident) or their property (in one case the car a witness allegedly drove into a past time was damaged by the rough gravel road surface). In one case a driver drove quite a long way along a motorway which had yet to be built. In the Versailles case the witnesses crossed a bridge over a small ravine which no longer existed in contemporary time. In another a witness walked across a small bay when it should have been submerged under high tide. I don't think the "mental" theory can explain such things. One day, maybe, someone will get a photo, but if anyone wants to carry a camera just in case I would advise an old, all-manual 35mm camera -- as we know, battery-operated devices, especially cameras, often malfunction during such experiences. My guess is that torsion waves may be a factor.
 
Interesting list Carl, but how much of this is 'hard' evidence, witnessed by people other than just the 'experiencers'? I've heard stories before where "money has changed hands, purchases made, etc", but I can't remember most of the details now.

This is new to me: "In one case a driver drove quite a long way along a motorway which had yet to be built"; and this; "In another a witness walked across a small bay when it should have been submerged under high tide." Can you point me at detailed accounts of these? In the motorway case, was there an independent witness to the mileage covered, for example? As for a tidal bay, well, tides are one of my 'special subjects', as I have extensive practical and theoretical knowledge of them, so I may be able to make some contribution to the debate!

As for 'torsion waves', they seem from an internet search to be rather a fringe topic. Can you point me at a description that justifies thinking that they can affect battery-operated cameras?

I am not 'debunking' anything here, but if we're to make progress I feel it is important to sort the wheat from the chaff. One good story, with checkable facts, is probably worth more than ten other 'so-so' tales.
 
I'll look up some references but it may take a while, especially since my main arch lever file with around 600 pages of printouts has totally disappeared! The best known case involving a purchase is the Great Yarmouth case, 1973, where the elderly coin collector bought some plastic envelopes at a strangely old fashioned stationers, which had disappeared when he returned to buy more. The envelopes aged very quickly. That type had been first made around 1920. (In Joan Forman's The Mask of Time). There have been purchases allegedly of petrol, soft drinks, etc. in more recent cases. In several cases people have dined at cafes and restaurants that no longer exist and visited hotels no longer there. The drive on the motorway (on anthonypeake.co.uk, posted 2013) was in Australia. Pixieanne, aged 23, was driving from Sydney to the Sunshine Coast. There she overheard people talking about a great new bypass around Newcastle, and decided to look out for it on her way home (some time in the 1990s). She found the start of the bypass outside Raymond Terrace, used it, and found it cut half an hour off her return journey. A few months later, she travelled with her partner, using the bypass both ways. Later on, they got into an argument with someone who said there was no such bypass. The next time they went on holiday, it was no longer there. In fact it was only built several years later. The tide was one element in the complex events at Crabrock Point, Brixham, Devon. In March 1938 a visitor, Mr Spence, had crossed the sand one day but at the same time next day the tide made it impossible (other physical things had changed). This is Chap 10 in Adventures in Time by MacKenzie.

Obviously, since I found torsion waves to be a factor in time slip cases at Rougham, I am inclined to see them as valid. If this was entirely a fringe topic, I doubt Einstein would have got involved in it, nor NASA, DARPA and the Ministry of Defence! It is my personal theory that this is the factor that causes batteries to fail in many cases of UFOs, hauntings, etc, and I hope to do some experiments myself on that this year.

Unfortunately, there are few cases (by their nature) that lend themselves to physical examination. Initially, at least, we have to make judgments about people's sincerity and good sense.
 
This is really exciting.
Carl, please do let us know when you have put it all in a book.
Just out of interest, what is your list of classifications for the types of timeslip experiences? You mentioned a 'type 4' earlier.
 
Type 1 is a vague visual impression of some past/future scene that is clearly a vision or hallucination.
Type 2 is a visual impression that is indistinguishable from normal perceptions
Type 3 is the witness's entry into a time period that is definitely not the present, although he or she cannot interact with it, perhaps because of being too far away from people seen there
Type 4 is complete physical and/or social interaction in the different time period, where the witnesses report they were able to touch objects, speak with other people, smell local smells, notice changes in weather conditions etc.

There is a more detailed discussion about classification problems in the Report.
 
Carl Grove said:
The best known case involving a purchase is the Great Yarmouth case, 1973, where the elderly coin collector bought some plastic envelopes at a strangely old fashioned stationers, which had disappeared when he returned to buy more. The envelopes aged very quickly.
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This sounds familiar, I've read it somewhere before.
 
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