Time Or Dimensional Slips

[CuriousIdent]

A furious Coachman in King’s Lynn


Location: King’s Lynn, Norfolk

Date: Late 1990s.

Type: Type 3: A sharp realistic image that surrounds the witness. People in the image seem unaware of the witness's presence, and there is no physical contact with elements in the perceived environment.

Persons Involved: ‘Jack’ - a reader of the blog Uncanny UK, his father and sister.

Number of Persons Involved: 3

Interactions:

• Auditory – Hearing a sudden change in the level of background noise in the area.
• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.

Source of Testimony: Uncanny UK

Description: Quoted:

I just wanted to report my time slip experience which was experienced by myself, my father and my sister. It happened in the late 1990s (can’t remember exactly when – sorry) in King’s Lynn, Norfolk. My dad, sister and I were in the town to send my sister off on the train and we were passing the time standing by a fence near the railway station from which one could see a road and roundabout ahead. It was about noon and we had no agenda at that time other than to wait before heading to the station and there was a lull in the conversation.

We were all casually looking straight ahead when suddenly the atmosphere changed. The sound of the traffic around us stopped abruptly – as if someone had literally turned the volume right down. The air seemed to change, too; it became very still; spookily still and no sound could be heard. None of us spoke.

Then there came the sound of horse’s hooves on the road and within a few seconds we saw a horse and cart, driven by a large, angry-looking man, dressed in what I estimate to be 18th century clothes. He was of very rough, dirty appearance and his cart was well-used. He drove the cart around in a circle, all the time staring around, sometimes directly at us, sometimes away but looking absolutely furious as though he was looking for someone he wanted to kill. His face was red with hatred and he was a big, rough-looking man – someone you would definitely not want to cross. Eventually, he turned the horse and cart around and drove it off down the same road from which he had appeared and we could hear the horse’s hooves disappearing into the distance.

Immediately the sound had gone, the atmosphere changed back again and the sound of modern traffic and the din of a modern town returned again. We all three looked at each other; shaken and almost disbelieving but once we had asked the inevitable “Did you see that?” and received the answer “yes” we were even more shaken. It was such a peculiar experience and one which I shall never forget.

Was this a time slip? We didn’t notice any other changes; the buildings and road layout seemed the same but that part of King’s Lynn had remained unchanged for many years (although I understand it is quite different now) so I don’t know but it spooked us all for sure!

Notes: It is unclear in the statement “all the time staring around, sometimes directly at us” as to whether that meant that eye contact was made and the driver acknowledged seeing them, or not.

As mentioned by Jack, during this experience none of the surrounding building changed. The cart and its driver appeared out of (seemingly) nowhere and left just as oddly as he arrived.

It is also possible that, odd an experience as this was, this could have simply been somebody in period dress who just so happened to be angrily controlling a horse and cart through the streets of King’s Lynn that day.

Typically this account shares more in common with the experience of a haunting than a traditional timeslip.

 

[Carl Grove]

Thanks, Carl.

Up to this point we've had a slightly more catch all category for for a change in either Weather or Time of Day being observed. I think it would be worth splitting that out into separate categories. And adding two further options, specifically for lighting state and Season.

Because while you could argue (for example) that a change to the snow of winter could be covered by an obvious change in Weather, a change to Autumn or Spring would not be. Though both would very obviously look different in the observation of the coluoration of leaves on trees and other plants.

Likewise a switch between night and day, dawn and dusk, is covered by time of day. Especially if the observer is outdoors at the time. But that becomes a little less precise if there is a shift in the state of lighting and the observer is currently indoors - where the source of light may not me directly linked to the time of day or the state of the weather outside.

I mean if this is a genuine timeslip there are differences between what kind of indoor lighting was used across the centuries. Candlelight, gaslight, electric bulbs, striplighting - they're all different. But in more subtle ways than just night or day.

If this is going to be a 'tick all that apply' kind of field I see no problem in that.

So:

• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.
• Visual – Change in Weather conditions observed.
• Visual – Change in Time of Day observed.
• Visual – Change in Season observed.
• Visual – Change in lighting state observed.
  
• Social – Acknowledgement of subject’s presence through eye contact or physical gesture.
• Social – Speaking with another individual who vocally acknowledges or responds to subject's vocal comment.
• Physical – Interacting with Objects or Environment.
• Physical – Physically interacting with another person or persons.
• Sensory – Subject tastes or consumes food or drink.
• Sensory – A change in Temperature experienced.
• Sensory – Smelling scents or odours without necessarily locating their source.
• Auditory – Hearing sounds or voices without necessarily locating their source.
• Auditory – Hearing a sudden change in the level of background noise in the area.

I have also added tasting or consuming food or drink under Sensory (which will certainly apply to things such as the Avignon account) and added a sudden change in the level of background noise under Auditory (as several accounts also seem to note an absence of sound at the time of such events).

You are certainly covering every possibility! Certainly re your smell category under Sensory, I recall a lot of cases attributed to hauntings where witnesses have smelled unusual scents, or perhaps a deceased uncle's favourite cigar, and that's all. Also many hauntings involve sudden cold. The fact that a lot of these modalities can operate independently adds fuel to the Virtual Reality kind of interpretation. It seems very different from the fictional portrayals of time travel, where the whole person and all his or her faculties are transported to a different time in one package, as it were.

The question of artificial lighting in indoor slips is very interesting. The witnesses in these cases don't often mention this element. Outdoors there are instances where comments are made about the light level -- e.g. the girl at Liverpool who said the light level had dimmed at the onset of her chat with the 1950s guy, or at Rougham where one witness, during late evening, saw the house as if bathed in sunshine. Also at Rougham the indoor case where blackness filled half the room (I have heard of a similar case from elsewhere since).

In cases where we get a chance to interview the witness it would be worth pursuing these points.

 

[Carl Grove]

A furious Coachman in King’s Lynn


Location: King’s Lynn, Norfolk

Date: Late 1990s.

Type: Type 3: A sharp realistic image that surrounds the witness. People in the image seem unaware of the witness's presence, and there is no physical contact with elements in the perceived environment.

Persons Involved: ‘Jack’ - a reader of the blog Uncanny UK, his father and sister.

Number of Persons Involved: 3

Interactions:

• Auditory – Hearing a sudden change in the level of background noise in the area.
• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.

Source of Testimony: Uncanny UK

Description: Quoted:

I just wanted to report my time slip experience which was experienced by myself, my father and my sister. It happened in the late 1990s (can’t remember exactly when – sorry) in King’s Lynn, Norfolk. My dad, sister and I were in the town to send my sister off on the train and we were passing the time standing by a fence near the railway station from which one could see a road and roundabout ahead. It was about noon and we had no agenda at that time other than to wait before heading to the station and there was a lull in the conversation.

We were all casually looking straight ahead when suddenly the atmosphere changed. The sound of the traffic around us stopped abruptly – as if someone had literally turned the volume right down. The air seemed to change, too; it became very still; spookily still and no sound could be heard. None of us spoke.

Then there came the sound of horse’s hooves on the road and within a few seconds we saw a horse and cart, driven by a large, angry-looking man, dressed in what I estimate to be 18th century clothes. He was of very rough, dirty appearance and his cart was well-used. He drove the cart around in a circle, all the time staring around, sometimes directly at us, sometimes away but looking absolutely furious as though he was looking for someone he wanted to kill. His face was red with hatred and he was a big, rough-looking man – someone you would definitely not want to cross. Eventually, he turned the horse and cart around and drove it off down the same road from which he had appeared and we could hear the horse’s hooves disappearing into the distance.

Immediately the sound had gone, the atmosphere changed back again and the sound of modern traffic and the din of a modern town returned again. We all three looked at each other; shaken and almost disbelieving but once we had asked the inevitable “Did you see that?” and received the answer “yes” we were even more shaken. It was such a peculiar experience and one which I shall never forget.

Was this a time slip? We didn’t notice any other changes; the buildings and road layout seemed the same but that part of King’s Lynn had remained unchanged for many years (although I understand it is quite different now) so I don’t know but it spooked us all for sure!

Notes: It is unclear in the statement “all the time staring around, sometimes directly at us” as to whether that meant that eye contact was made and the driver acknowledged seeing them, or not.

As mentioned by Jack, during this experience none of the surrounding building changed. The cart and its driver appeared out of (seemingly) nowhere and left just as oddly as he arrived.

It is also possible that, odd an experience as this was, this could have simply been somebody in period dress who just so happened to be angrily controlling a horse and cart through the streets of King’s Lynn that day.

Typically this account shares more in common with the experience of a haunting than a traditional timeslip.

Yes, this case is fascinating. Could be one of those possible stone tape events maybe?

 

[CuriousIdent]

You are certainly covering every possibility! Certainly re your smell category under Sensory, I recall a lot of cases attributed to hauntings where witnesses have smelled unusual scents, or perhaps a deceased uncle's favourite cigar, and that's all. Also many hauntings involve sudden cold.

I think that these kind of sensations actually could hint more at a timeslip - rather than simply having some kind of hallucination. Smells, sounds, physical contact, changes in temperature. I suppose a combination of several of these would hint at far more than simply your eyes playing tricks.

The question of artificial lighting in indoor slips is very interesting. The witnesses in these cases don't often mention this element. Outdoors there are instances where comments are made about the light level -- e.g. the girl at Liverpool who said the light level had dimmed at the onset of her chat with the 1950s guy, or at Rougham where one witness, during late evening, saw the house as if bathed in sunshine. Also at Rougham the indoor case where blackness filled half the room (I have heard of a similar case from elsewhere since).

In cases where we get a chance to interview the witness it would be worth pursuing these points.

Agreed.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

"I wonder what a typical late 1970s Gendarme uniform looked like. It is far from implausible that a rain cape could have been covering a modern day (for the 1970s) uniform."

I just did a quick search and spotted a few items on Ebay. Also found a French site specialising in secondhand police and military uniforms, and this item was in their 1950s/1960s/1970s section:

 

[CuriousIdent]

"I wonder what a typical late 1970s Gendarme uniform looked like. It is far from implausible that a rain cape could have been covering a modern day (for the 1970s) uniform."

I just did a quick search and spotted a few items on Ebay. Also found a French site specialising in secondhand police and military uniforms, and this item was in their 1950s/1960s/1970s section:

View attachment 7429

Hmm. So a 70s uniform did still have that 'Allo 'Allo vibe to it. In miy mind they had moved onto lighter coloured shirts in the 70s. Less formal.

 

[CuriousIdent]

With special thanks to Rosebud for helping me update this one with new links and a little further clarification.

A Phantom Public House


Location: The Plough Inn, Croydon Road, Beddington, Surrey.

Date: Summer 1996 (June or July)

Type: Type 2: A clear sharp and totally realistic visual image. A witness will see it and have no idea that it is anything other than an ordinary image.

Persons Involved: FTMB poster Rosebud

Number of Persons Involved: 1

Interactions:

• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.
• Sensory – Smelling scents or odours without necessarily locating their source.

Source of Testimony: Posts #64, #68 and #72 in this very thread.

Description: Quoted:

I have had a couple of time-slip style experiences that I cannot fully explain. One of them occurred in the summer of 1996.

A relative of mine was in the St Helier hospital in Carshalton, Surrey for several weeks. I used to drive down from South London every other day so got to know the route pretty well. One afternoon, travelling along the Croydon Road I got the urge to turn right into Plough Lane.

I am not the adventurous type and straight away thought; "What made me do that?" I decided to drive a little way up the road and turn round. About 50 to 60 yards in there was a turning to the right with a wedge shaped pub on the corner, as I passed it I could smell beer and noticed that it looked really old fashioned. The door was slightly open and the lights were on.

I carried on up the road for several minutes and became aware that it was unusually quiet, there were no pedestrians and I realized that I hadn't seen any other cars, either. I felt slightly uneasy so pulled over, reversed into a driveway and drove back the way I came. As soon as I did that the odd feeling began to lift but when I got to the junction with the pub on it, the building was derelict, there were no lights and it had clearly been closed for ages, yet twenty minutes earlier it had been open for business!

I have included a street view link, the pub was where the back gates/beer garden of the pub on the Croydon Road is now.

The original street view map linked to had expired. After having a PM conversation with Rosebud they have told me that the following link is an accurate equivalent:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3...4!1s982BDunqpInGuxy-wj-RKQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

From the back of the pub, standing on Plough Lane, the entrance I saw was facing the row of shops on the right.

Notes:

Through discussion on the boards it was concluded that the pub in question was The Plough, in Beddington, Surrey - which other posters noted had been included in the book Haunted Mitcham as a haunted pub.

Rosebud also clarified:

JW, I should have said, it was a hot day and I had the driver's window open, I quite like the smell of beer (for medicinal purposes, you understand) and it seemed real.

The beer garden/back gate of The Plough is the actual location of this phantom pub, I wonder if it was located there originally?

The beer garden can be seen on the Google Streetview linked to above.

Researching further into the history of the pub Rosebud also discovered the following:

It seems to have occupied the entire triangular plot throughout its existence, has been re-modelled several times and does seem to have had an entrance where I saw one, but it would not have been there in the mid-1990's.

Given that there appears to have been no building occupying that corner plot here in 1996 (the pub is set further back in modern times) and that Rosebud observed the pub first open and active, then somewhat in a poor state of repair, it is possible that this could have actually been considered two timeslips.

• One to a time where a corner entrance was open.
• One to a time where that entrance had fallen into a state of disrepair.

I have also found a reference to the alleged haunting at The Plough at the following link:

http://www.swlondoner.co.uk/spookta...s-ghostly-goings-south-west-london-halloween/

The landlord in the 1970s (a man named Felwyn Williams) and his wife reported ‘strange happenings’ at night and seeing a ‘white lady’ who would stand still ‘staring out of one of the top floor windows that can still be seen from the street today.’

The article also mentions that (at the time of publishing – October 2016) large parts of The Plough were largerly derelict. The upstairs – the only place the ghost was witnessed - remained unoccupied, even for storage.

Also:

“Until the 1970s, it was never understood why from the street you could see three top floor windows of the pub, but those who worked inside could only find two that looked out onto the street.

The location of this third window remained a mystery until renovators knocked a wall down and uncovered a large, antiquated room that had been bricked up and left untouched.

It is unknown what the history behind this room is, and why it was bricked up and separated from the rest of the building”

In their original post Rosebud had included a link to a short history of The Plough on Sutton Council’s website. This link has since expired.

The Pub is owned by the Youngs chain. Rosebud linked me to the current website for The Plough. The site suggests that it has received considerable refurbishment in the not too distant past:

https://www.ploughbeddington.co.uk/

It does also provide a short history of the pub (no haunting included):

The Plough is a traditional local pub in that is the heart of the village of Beddington. Built in 1897 on the site of an 18th century inn. The pub still has a tunnel in the cellar that leads to Carew Manor in Beddington Park which was frequently visited by Queen Elizabeth 1st and Sir Walter Raleigh whose head is buried in the churchyard of St. Mary’s Church.

Which is a fascinating titbit of information to know, even if it doesn’t directly relate to a timelip.

Rosebud also looked into the possibility that an earlier structure on that corner plot may have been destroyed by bombing during WW2.

I checked the Bomb Sight website, in case a direct hit could pinpoint when a rebuild had been a necessity, but there doesn't seem to have been one. There were 3 between 1940/41 close by, but no actual hit. There weren't any signs of tape on the windows etc., and the road was in reasonable condition, so I'm inclined to think my sighting was 1950's or 1960's.

And as a final comment on the experience:

All I can really add to my account is that it was Summer, probably July, 1996 and would have been on a weekday between 3 to 4.30pm. It was warm enough to be driving with the window down.

Rosebud approached the rear of the Plough Inn lot, along Plough Lane.

Many thanks to David Plankton for offering two other views of past iterations of The Inn. These look to be viewing the front of the Pub from the Croydon Road.

Plough Lane would not be visible in these images, as from the front of the property it runs down its left hand hand side. Here we are looking at its right hand side.

The second appears to be a photo / postcard:

In this 1952 photograph you can see Plough Lane on the left hand side of the photo, as it joins the Croydon Road. For the purposes of comparison I have highlighted the equivalent view on the 2016 Google Streetview.

One thing that has come up consistently in comments on this account is just how much the area has changed over the centuries. From a standalone public building on a main road, the only one possibly for miles around, among trees and woodland to a tiny old building, effectively now on a traffic island, in a busy urban area.

FTMB poster Ghost in the Machine also found an archived newspaper article from the Coventry Herald and Weekly Advertiser (dated Friday, May 28th, 1824) which detailed a hot air balloon crash nearby, which involved bringing the bodies of the victims to the Plough Inn.

"I did a search on a 19thC newspapers database for "Plough Inn", and "Beddington" and found a couple of stories which point to the kind of 'liminal' nature of inns in the past. And a possible identity for our lady ghost in an upstairs room...

This story went national and there were numerous versions of it in papers from all across the UK:

"Mr Harris... ascended...on Tuesday in a Balloon...A young Lady ascended with Mr Harris; she appeared to be about 18 years of age... and her appearance was altogether very interesting. Her name is Stocks.... It was reported that the Balloon descended near Croydon... struck with dreadful violence against a large tree... Mr Harris was killed and the young lady was left in so shocking a state, that her speedy death was considered inevitable... Immediately on the descent of the Balloon, in Beddington Park, Mr.J.Wallace, Surgeon, of Carshalton, came to the assistance of the sufferers, and after a short time conveyed them to the Plough... The body of Mr Harris is lying in one of the front bed-rooms at the Plough Inn,...."

Coventry Herald and Weekly Advertiser, Friday, May 28th, 1824.

The Coroner and Jury met at the Plough Inn for the Inquest.

Miss Stocks (called 'Storkes' in other accounts and named elsewhere as 'Jane Storkes) gave a full account of what happened - which was quoted at length in the papers. Later reports say she died the next day "in a very bad state, continually moaning" - the day after the inquest. Apparently, her room adjoined that where the body of Mr Harris was laid out, so Jurors, having to view the body, had to tiptoe in and stay quiet so as not to disturb her. In the 19thC., jurors were expected to view the body, along with the Coroner.

Apparently the accident was caused when the balloon started deflating, mid-flight. Harris didn't really seem to know what he was doing, but wanted to prove to a rival he could supervise the making of, then fly, a balloon unaided. Jane was a servant and seems to have been chosen randomly to go with him. One account mentions the gamekeeper at Beddington Park dragging Harris and Jane from the balloon's basket.

As Jane lay dying, her mother had to travel from London to come and visit her and she died within hours of her mother's arrival.

Inquests were routinely held at Inns, as people often died after being injured in transit home, and would be taken to the nearest inn, so they may well be liminal places, in the days of coaching inns in particular (the precursors to railways stations which also seem to crop up a lot in these timeslips). Bodies would often be laid out in inns for Jurors to view.

This is only one of a number of inquests that took place at The Plough but this seems to be the most widely reported and sensational case."

 

[David Plankton]

Location: The Plough Inn, Croydon Road, Beddington, Surrey.

A quick google image search finds these, no idea of dates.

 

[David Plankton]

Street View.

 

[CuriousIdent]

A quick google image search finds these, no idea of dates.
View attachment 7430 View attachment 7431

Oh, my. So a very different building in the past. And very definitely on the corner where the beer garden is now.

EDIT: Noting the chimney placement I've realised these are images from the road ahead in the streetview image. My (overly eager) bad.

Good find, David Plankton.

Anything looking familiar there, Rosebud?

 

[CuriousIdent]

A lift home from 10 years earlier


Location: Iowa, USA

Date: Spring 2008

Type: Type 4: A sharp realistic image, in which the witness is completely integrated; they can communicate with people around them, handle objects, and even purchase things.

Persons Involved: Above Top Secret forum poster Jedite and an unnamed local elderly couple.

Number of Persons Involved: 3

Interactions:

• Social – Speaking with another individual who vocally acknowledges or responds to subject's vocal comment.
• Physical – Interacting with Objects or Environment.
• Physical – Physically interacting with another person or persons.

Source of Testimony: The Inadvertent Time Travellers thread at Above Top Secret:

Description:

I had an event, didn't really think anything of it till a few days after it happened and I'll explain why.

I've posted this story someplace else on here talking about time-slips and jumps. I was walking home at 1am on a spring night back in 2008 from Walmart where I worked. Why I was walking was because I didn't have a ride home at 1 in the morning, and the person that was going to give me a ride didn't show up to work. So I walked along the highway because that way would be quicker then cutting through town

I was possibly a little less then half way home when a car pulled up and then over in front of me. I didn't think to much of it other then the usual worries like what were they doing, car trouble? am I going to be in danger.

Well I approached carefully and saw it was an older couple, and they asked why I was walking and I explained to them and then they asked where I lived and I gave them a general area still kinda skeptical. Well they offered to take me they were coming back from a Hawkeye game and live sort of the same way.

It was semi cold and I didn't see the harm so I hopped in they were listening to the replay of the game and it was kinda weird because the replays was for a game that happened in 1997 and the only reason I remember it was because my aunt and uncle took me to that game.

Still didn't think to much about it really maybe they were die hard Hawkeye fans. Other then that the ride was uneventful I got home ok thanked them and headed inside with out second thoughts.

Well I met them again they were much older then when they gave me a ride a few days ago and they seemed more surprised at me then I was at them. The said I look like I haven't aged since that night back in 1997, I blinked and was like that was just a few nights ago for me.

We all got kinda quiet thinking about it and I just walked away kinda spooked.


Notes:

Jedite no longer lives in the area, or indeed the same State.

Our own Carl Grove quizzed Jedite a little further, as to whether he’d seen the couple since, back in 2015. He responded:

I've seen them around a few times when I lived in Iowa. Ended up talking to them once, they ran into me while I was at work. We talked a little bit on it.

She seemed to think it was the work of god putting them at the right place at the right time. I was just freaked because an advent that just happened maybe no more then a week or so ago they are claiming happened 3 years.

The husband thought I was pulling his chain so we talked a bit more about it. I don't know if he took it seriously. I just remember she did,like I said, she kept saying it was god's will and that they probably prevented something worse and they shouldn't question an miracle​

It is possible that the couple were in some way confused over the events by the usual forgetfulness of age.

It is harder to account for a notable difference in age upon meeting the couple again, or a commentary from a sporting even from 1997 having been replayed on that night in 2008.

 

[David Plankton]

EDIT: Noting the chimney placement I've realised these are images from the road ahead in the streetview image. My (overly eager) bad.

Ah, yes sorry. This is the view in the painting

 

[CuriousIdent]

Ah, yes sorry. This is the view in the painting

View attachment 7434 View attachment 7435

I think it's more likely to be from the opposite end of the current building. The former courtyard entrance now bricked over with some kind of annex/balcony to the outhouse building. Which these days has a billboard attached to it.

 

[David Plankton]

I think it's more likely to be from the opposite end of the current building.

Yes, that's right. It's a confusing building without being in a time-slip.

 

[CuriousIdent]

Yes, that's right. It's a confusing building without being in a time-slip.

And interesting to watch the encroachment of of urbanisation eating away at all the greenery while the building (in some form or other) remains.

 

[Carl Grove]

Congratulations everyone for a great piece of research on the inn sighting. It shows what can be done when a number of (very computer literate) people make a real effort to find relevant information!

The element that stands out about this case is that Rosebud had a strange urge to turn down that particular street. This is quite unusual in that most witnesses just happen on a slip in the normal course of events. On the other hand it is usual (when you can question them) for witnesses to describe other odd events, including other possible time slips, in their lives. It is also not always the case that witnesses have odd "feelings" during or before a slip though. Another feature to focus on, for sure.

 

[gerhard1]

A lift home from 10 years earlier


Location: Iowa, USA

Date: Spring 2008

Type: Type 4: A sharp realistic image, in which the witness is completely integrated; they can communicate with people around them, handle objects, and even purchase things.

Persons Involved: Above Top Secret forum poster Jedite and an unnamed local elderly couple.

Number of Persons Involved: 3

Interactions:

• Social – Speaking with another individual who vocally acknowledges or responds to subject's vocal comment.
• Physical – Interacting with Objects or Environment.
• Physical – Physically interacting with another person or persons.

Source of Testimony: The Inadvertent Time Travellers thread at Above Top Secret:

Description:

I had an event, didn't really think anything of it till a few days after it happened and I'll explain why.

I've posted this story someplace else on here talking about time-slips and jumps. I was walking home at 1am on a spring night back in 2008 from Walmart where I worked. Why I was walking was because I didn't have a ride home at 1 in the morning, and the person that was going to give me a ride didn't show up to work. So I walked along the highway because that way would be quicker then cutting through town

I was possibly a little less then half way home when a car pulled up and then over in front of me. I didn't think to much of it other then the usual worries like what were they doing, car trouble? am I going to be in danger.

Well I approached carefully and saw it was an older couple, and they asked why I was walking and I explained to them and then they asked where I lived and I gave them a general area still kinda skeptical. Well they offered to take me they were coming back from a Hawkeye game and live sort of the same way.

It was semi cold and I didn't see the harm so I hopped in they were listening to the replay of the game and it was kinda weird because the replays was for a game that happened in 1997 and the only reason I remember it was because my aunt and uncle took me to that game.

Still didn't think to much about it really maybe they were die hard Hawkeye fans. Other then that the ride was uneventful I got home ok thanked them and headed inside with out second thoughts.

Well I met them again they were much older then when they gave me a ride a few days ago and they seemed more surprised at me then I was at them. The said I look like I haven't aged since that night back in 1997, I blinked and was like that was just a few nights ago for me.

We all got kinda quiet thinking about it and I just walked away kinda spooked.


Notes:

Jedite no longer lives in the area, or indeed the same State.

Our own Carl Grove quizzed Jedite a little further, as to whether he’d seen the couple since, back in 2015. He responded:

I've seen them around a few times when I lived in Iowa. Ended up talking to them once, they ran into me while I was at work. We talked a little bit on it.

She seemed to think it was the work of god putting them at the right place at the right time. I was just freaked because an advent that just happened maybe no more then a week or so ago they are claiming happened 3 years.

The husband thought I was pulling his chain so we talked a bit more about it. I don't know if he took it seriously. I just remember she did,like I said, she kept saying it was god's will and that they probably prevented something worse and they shouldn't question an miracle​

It is possible that the couple were in some way confused over the events by the usual forgetfulness of age.

It is harder to account for a notable difference in age upon meeting the couple again, or a commentary from a sporting even from 1997 having been replayed on that night in 2008.

That is one strange story. I have said in other fora, and if memory serves, here, that time slips could be one explanation for some cryptid sightings.

 

[Carl Grove]

That is one strange story. I have said in other fora, and if memory serves, here, that time slips could be one explanation for some cryptid sightings.

I seem to recall some sightings of Pterodactyls or some similar creatures in the Pennines, also a case from the States. I agree, could be time slips.

 

[PeteS]

And interesting to watch the encroachment of of urbanisation eating away at all the greenery while the building (in some form or other) remains.

Looking at Google satellite it looks like The Plough is hanging on by the skin of its teeth- almost on a small island entirely surrounded by busy roads with no car parking on site. The shops and surrounding houses look to be 1930's ish builds. It would be interesting if Rosebud could remember whether the shops and housing estates were there at the time of the experience. If they weren't there, clearly the timeslip took rosebud back even further than the 30's, but from the description of the pub it seems that this was the case.

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

I did a search on a 19thC newspapers database for "Plough Inn", and "Beddington" and found a couple of stories which point to the kind of 'liminal' nature of inns in the past. And a possible identity for our lady ghost in an upstairs room...

This story went national and there were numerous versions of it in papers from all across the UK:

"Mr Harris... ascended...on Tuesday in a Balloon...A young Lady ascended with Mr Harris; she appeared to be about 18 years of age... and her appearance was altogether very interesting. Her name is Stocks.... It was reported that the Balloon descended near Croydon... struck with dreadful violence against a large tree... Mr Harris was killed and the young lady was left in so shocking a state, that her speedy death was considered inevitable... Immediately on the descent of the Balloon, in Beddington Park, Mr.J.Wallace, Surgeon, of Carshalton, came to the assistance of the sufferers, and after a short time conveyed them to the Plough... The body of Mr Harris is lying in one of the front bed-rooms at the Plough Inn,...."

Coventry Herald and Weekly Advertiser, Friday, May 28th, 1824.

The Coroner and Jury met at the Plough Inn for the Inquest.

Miss Stocks (called 'Storkes' in other accounts and named elsewhere as 'Jane Storkes) gave a full account of what happened - which was quoted at length in the papers. Later reports say she died the next day "in a very bad state, continually moaning" - the day after the inquest. Apparently, her room adjoined that where the body of Mr Harris was laid out, so Jurors, having to view the body, had to tiptoe in and stay quiet so as not to disturb her. In the 19thC., jurors were expected to view the body, along with the Coroner.

Apparently the accident was caused when the balloon started deflating, mid-flight. Harris didn't really seem to know what he was doing, but wanted to prove to a rival he could supervise the making of, then fly, a balloon unaided. Jane was a servant and seems to have been chosen randomly to go with him. One account mentions the gamekeeper at Beddington Park dragging Harris and Jane from the balloon's basket.

As Jane lay dying, her mother had to travel from London to come and visit her and she died within hours of her mother's arrival.

Inquests were routinely held at Inns, as people often died after being injured in transit home, and would be taken to the nearest inn, so they may well be liminal places, in the days of coaching inns in particular (the precursors to railways stations which also seem to crop up a lot in these timeslips). Bodies would often be laid out in inns for Jurors to view.

This is only one of a number of inquests that took place at The Plough but this seems to be the most widely reported and sensational case.

Talking of the urbanisation of the area, an account of another court case in the 1840s, mentions stolen sheep being grazed in meadows belonging to the Plough Inn. We forget but many inns were also bases for carriers and stage coaches - so again, places of regular departures and arrivals...

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

Reading back this thread - Carl Grove, I can't find it or link to it right now, but I recall in one of the massive ghosty threads on Digital Spy's general Discussion forum, someone recounted a fairly recent time slip in The Merchant Adventurer's Hall in York. Not sure if you have collected that one, yet? If I can find it will link to it later but you may find it faster than I can...

 

[Rosebud]

Looking at Google satellite it looks like The Plough is hanging on by the skin of its teeth- almost on a small island entirely surrounded by busy roads with no car parking on site. The shops and surrounding houses look to be 1930's ish builds. It would be interesting if Rosebud could remember whether the shops and housing estates were there at the time of the experience. If they weren't there, clearly the timeslip took rosebud back even further than the 30's, but from the description of the pub it seems that this was the case.

The row of shops were there, on the left, opposite the 'phantom' open pub doorway,which was in what is now the beer garden. There seem to be more shops there now than I remember. The road was in fair condition, no large potholes. There were 1930's style houses further along.

Earlier pictures of the site look as though the road surface is something other than the dark tarmac we are used to today. However, there was a small airfield nearby during WW2, and the Croydon Road is an 'A' road, so it must have been sturdy enough to cope with heavy traffic.

 

[gerhard1]

I seem to recall some sightings of Pterodactyls or some similar creatures in the Pennines, also a case from the States. I agree, could be time slips.

As I remember, they were largely along the Rio Grande, the Texas-Mexico border. Some of that country is quite wild. But there are reports of them being seen in central Illinois as well.

 

[NumberNine]

Reading back this thread - Carl Grove, I can't find it or link to it right now, but I recall in one of the massive ghosty threads on Digital Spy's general Discussion forum, someone recounted a fairly recent time slip in The Merchant Adventurer's Hall in York. Not sure if you have collected that one, yet? If I can find it will link to it later but you may find it faster than I can...

That was Vodka_Drinka's post...

"I've experienced a time slip myself and started a thread about it on here at the time. It happened when I was in York with my mum. The first morning we were there we decided to go and visit the Merchants Hall, don't know why as it was actually pretty boring and there was nothing much to see in there. We went in through the main entrance and you had to go into this side room to pay, my mum went in there to pay and while I was waiting I wandered into another room opposite it which had lots of old painting of the Minster on the wall. The weirdest thing was there was what I can only describe as a square or rectangle shaped "pool" in there. It was definitely there, the room was oak paneled and I could see oaks panels and the wall above that reflected in the water. Thought it was odd, but didn't think to much of it. My mum was still chatting to the man on reception so I went out and joined her, then we walked back into the room where I'd seen the "pool" and to my horror it was gone! In it's place was a staircase going down, with a brick wall alongside it and a window that had definitely not been there before. I just couldn't get my head around it.

I didn't say anything at first, and we wandered around the hall for a bit but it had scared me to death and I couldn't wait to leave, I didn't like the atmosphere in there either. As soon as we got outside I told my mum what had happened, she thankfully is open minded about strange stuff and believed me.

Weird anyway, god knows what I'd seen."

https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/comment/52924281#Comment_52924281

 

[PeteS]

The row of shops were there, on the left, opposite the 'phantom' open pub doorway,which was in what is now the beer garden. There seem to be more shops there now than I remember. The road was in fair condition, no large potholes. There were 1930's style houses further along.

Earlier pictures of the site look as though the road surface is something other than the dark tarmac we are used to today. However, there was a small airfield nearby during WW2, and the Croydon Road is an 'A' road, so it must have been sturdy enough to cope with heavy traffic.

I wonder whether this was an ancestor memory of the place of some type, the sudden desire to turn into Plough Lane being an action one of your relatives did in the past.
We drive past some of these places don't we without giving them a second glance, and ignorant of the fascinating history some sites have.

 

[CuriousIdent]

I did a search on a 19thC newspapers database for "Plough Inn", and "Beddington" and found a couple of stories which point to the kind of 'liminal' nature of inns in the past. And a possible identity for our lady ghost in an upstairs room...

This story went national and there were numerous versions of it in papers from all across the UK:

"Mr Harris... ascended...on Tuesday in a Balloon...A young Lady ascended with Mr Harris; she appeared to be about 18 years of age... and her appearance was altogether very interesting. Her name is Stocks.... It was reported that the Balloon descended near Croydon... struck with dreadful violence against a large tree... Mr Harris was killed and the young lady was left in so shocking a state, that her speedy death was considered inevitable... Immediately on the descent of the Balloon, in Beddington Park, Mr.J.Wallace, Surgeon, of Carshalton, came to the assistance of the sufferers, and after a short time conveyed them to the Plough... The body of Mr Harris is lying in one of the front bed-rooms at the Plough Inn,...."

Coventry Herald and Weekly Advertiser, Friday, May 28th, 1824.

The Coroner and Jury met at the Plough Inn for the Inquest.

Miss Stocks (called 'Storkes' in other accounts and named elsewhere as 'Jane Storkes) gave a full account of what happened - which was quoted at length in the papers. Later reports say she died the next day "in a very bad state, continually moaning" - the day after the inquest. Apparently, her room adjoined that where the body of Mr Harris was laid out, so Jurors, having to view the body, had to tiptoe in and stay quiet so as not to disturb her. In the 19thC., jurors were expected to view the body, along with the Coroner.

Apparently the accident was caused when the balloon started deflating, mid-flight. Harris didn't really seem to know what he was doing, but wanted to prove to a rival he could supervise the making of, then fly, a balloon unaided. Jane was a servant and seems to have been chosen randomly to go with him. One account mentions the gamekeeper at Beddington Park dragging Harris and Jane from the balloon's basket.

As Jane lay dying, her mother had to travel from London to come and visit her and she died within hours of her mother's arrival.

Inquests were routinely held at Inns, as people often died after being injured in transit home, and would be taken to the nearest inn, so they may well be liminal places, in the days of coaching inns in particular (the precursors to railways stations which also seem to crop up a lot in these timeslips). Bodies would often be laid out in inns for Jurors to view.

This is only one of a number of inquests that took place at The Plough but this seems to be the most widely reported and sensational case.

Talking of the urbanisation of the area, an account of another court case in the 1840s, mentions stolen sheep being grazed in meadows belonging to the Plough Inn. We forget but many inns were also bases for carriers and stage coaches - so again, places of regular departures and arrivals...

Good digging, Ghost in the Machine!

Interesting. Most interesting. It not only reminds us that the Plough Inn has been here for centuries, but the usage for inquests was something I certainly had no idea about.

To put timeslips to one side for a moment, if one were likely to believe in the concepts of ghosts and hauntings this hot air balloon crash could quite logically be the source of the apparition described by the Landlord of The Plough, back in the 1970s.

And then there's the description above:

"The body of Mr Harris is lying in one of the front bed-rooms at the Plough Inn"

You hear that and you wonder if that very room was the same as whichever one of those 3 front bedrooms had literally been bricked up and over until the 1970s. The room which had effectively been preserved exactly as it had been left when it was sealed off in an earlier century.

I have to say it also makes me wonder if the activity which was reported in the 70s began before or after that room was opened back up...

Intriguing stuff isn't it?

But yes, The Plough Inn IS incredibly old. As PeteS notes:

Looking at Google satellite it looks like The Plough is hanging on by the skin of its teeth- almost on a small island entirely surrounded by busy roads with no car parking on site.

A bizarre surviving relic from a different age. You look back at that postcard, or any of the other black and white images you can find on a very basic google image search, and the difference between then and now is like light and day.

It's stark. A one time coaching inn, on a highway designed for horse and cart and which would have been far more important in ages past. Standing out on the landscape, a sole building in among trees and woodland.




It clearly was an important site. Important enough to have been used for inquests. Possibly because it *was* the only public building of its kind for miles.

Even as late as 1952 it was still relatively prominent on the landscape:

Still plenty greenery there.

But as the decades have rolled on all of that is gone. It now hangs on as an ages old structure on traffic island of an urbanised area.

When you consider how far it used to be from the actual road compared to now? Even in the 50s? A huge change.

Now I don't claim to be an expert. I don't know if hauntings and timeslips are either real or even in some way the same thing viewed from different perspectives. But... that so many hauntings which have been witnessed by more than one person seem to involve spectral figures repeating actions or gestures might support the concept of a haunting being some kind of glimpse or snapshot of the past is probably not implausible.

In some ways I find Rosebud's experience comparable to that of a road ghost encounter. Not expecting to encounter something, driving by oblivious, only to find yourself suddenly seeing something which shouldn't be there.

In this case a plausible annex or side entrance to an Inn which was bulldozed years earlier.

What causes such things to occur is, of course, entirely open to conjecture. But this is a very old Pub on a very old road. With a known fatal accident nearby, a painful death on the property, and certainly with bodies having been brought here for inspection.

Is it entirely implausible that somehow a tragic event or a multiple usage of the site for the purpose of inquests may have resulted in some kind of imprinting of moments from history being recorded into very fibers of the building and its grounds?

Somehow. Like Stone Tape, for those who don't find that notion impossible. That under certain circumstances replays as a glimpse of the past.

Because while the surrounding area has changed so dramatically, the pub itself has survived. For centuries. Like a surviving artifact from another age.

Is it implausible?

Damn it, makes me want to plan a road trip now.

 

[CuriousIdent]

A Stationery Moment in Time


Location: Great Yarmouth, Norfolk

Date: 1973

Type: Type 4: A sharp realistic image, in which the witness is completely integrated; they can communicate with people around them, handle objects, and even purchase things.

Persons Involved: An individual only referred to as “Mr Squirrel”.

Number of Persons Involved: 1

Interactions:

• Visual – Change in Environmental Appearance and/or attire of persons in the vicinity.
• Social – Speaking with another individual who vocally acknowledges or responds to subject's vocal comment.
• Physical – Interacting with Objects or Environment.
• Physical – Physically interacting with another person or persons.
• Auditory – Hearing a sudden change in the level of background noise in the area.

Source of Testimony: Appears in "The Directory of Possibilities," edited by Colin Wilson and John Grant (published 1981) but is referencing an account from “The Mask of Time” by Joan Forman (published by Macdonald and Jane's - 1979).

Description: This much re-relayed story is of an account given by a ‘Mr Squirrel’, who at some point in 1973 walked into a Stationers located somewhere in the Norfolk coastal town of Great Yarmouth, looking for some envelopes.

He was served by a woman who appeared to be in Edwardian dress and bought three dozen envelopes. The bill came to One Shilling.

Recalling the event Mr Squirrel attested that he had noticed that the building was extremely silent. There was no obvious traffic noise from outside.

He revisited the shop again, approximately 3 weeks later. But on doing so he was surprised to find the shop completely changed and modernised. The assistant, an elderly lady, denied that there had been any other assistant in the shop in previous weeks.

The previously purchased envelopes apparently “disintegrated very quickly”.

Joan Forman claimed to have interviewed Mr Squirrel after hearing about the case, during which occasion he was able to produce one of the remaining envelopes to show her. Forman claimed to have written to the manufacturers, who had informed him that such envelopes had ceased to be manufactured by them some 15 years before.


Notes:

You will find various retellings of this story in several places online – all of which seem to refer to Joan Forman’s testimony, but a different distances and via several difference go-between sources.

Mr Squirrel’s first name has never been revealed.

It is uncertain how easily Mr Squirrel would have paid ‘One Shilling’ two years after Britain’s decimalisation of currency. While it is possible that Mr Squirrel was simply the kind of person to always use the old terms for coinage even after decimilsation there are still certain questions raised by this:

• Older coins were still considered legal tender, though their weight would have been slightly different to post decimalised currency.
• If this was truly a timeslip it would be unlikely for a shop assistant from the past to have not questioned a modern coin, even if they were similar sized. It would be likely to be viewed as counterfeit.

Carl Grove, who owns a copy of Jane Foreman's book, added the following extended quote from that source:

"Mr Squirrel took three dozen envelopes, and was delighted to find that they only cost him a shilling... even in 1975 this elderly Norfolk man still used the pre-decimal terms... The only puzzling feature of this part of the transaction was that the assistant stared in astonishment at the coin (decimal money) he had given her. However, without comment, she placed the envelopes in a larger bag which bore the shop's name across it..."

As to whether this is writer's hyperbole or Squirrel's interpretation is unclear.

No details are provided over the interior of the shop in most of the versions of this account found online. Was this simply a woman appearing to be in Edwardian dress or had the interior of the shop also changed in some fashion?

Carl Grove noted that there is a description for both in the Foreman book:

Regarding the shop interior, I will quote from her account:

"the facade seemed brightly-painted, and gave the impression of newness as he crossed the threshold... (inside) there were a number of photograph frames with flower motifs around them standing on the counter; there was an old till-box also, and a container in a corner full of coloured walking-sticks. He noticed that the floor covering was of "oilcloth"... of a motley pattern. He had a general impression of something unusual about the shop's interior..

At this moment the shop assistant, about 32-3, wearing a long black skirt, an old fashioned blouse and hair in a bun. Forman comments, correctly, that in the early 70s (and late 60s, if I recall right) it was not that unusual to see girls wearing Edwardian styles. When he asked about envelopes for his coins, she produced a long brown box containing rows of them."

We do not know the name of the stationers or where it may have been located within Great Yarmouth. It is perhaps also that the broadly noted 'came back 3 weeks later' which is attached to many of the versions of this account online is not what Foreman included in her book. That timescale is different.

Carl notes:

"Mr Squirrel then left and returned home, telling a lady friend about his good luck and plan to return to the shop the following week: but then the cobbles had vanished, "the interior and exterior of the building looked dark and weathered", the walking sticks and photo frames were gone, and the assistant, in her 50s, denied both that the shop had been redecorated that week and that a young lady ever worked there. Nor did they stock such envelopes. The manager was called over and confirmed this.

Carl also notes that in that account the bag with the name of the shop on also disintegrated within weeks.

Some references online mention the type of envelope Mr Squirrel as not only being discontinued at some point in 1968, but that they had ‘been first made around 1920’. I am unable to verify that, as I do not own the book to confirm if that was mentioned in The Mask of Time.

It also entirely possible that Mr Squirrel was simply sold some very old envelopes. Although that doesn't entirely account for the shop assistant or her attire.

 

[PeteS]

Not implausible at all - similar thoughts occurred to me . The 1952 image is interesting. The trees behind are still there masking the houses behind which you can just see on Iberian Ave. Presumably the car on the right of the photo is parked in front of the shops - William Hill etc. Apart from the increase in traffic, road markings etc I suspect that the basic layout has changed little since then. As you would expect the photo was clearly taken to show the place in its best light ,but the photographer couldn't wait for the traffic to clear. A fascinating little thread this.

 

[CuriousIdent]

Not implausible at all - similar thoughts occurred to me . The 1952 image is interesting. The trees behind are still there masking the houses behind which you can just see on Iberian Ave. Presumably the car on the right of the photo is parked in front of the shops - William Hill etc. Apart from the increase in traffic, road markings etc I suspect that the basic layout has changed little since then. As you would expect the photo was clearly taken to show the place in its best light ,but the photographer couldn't wait for the traffic to clear. A fascinating little thread this.

I've tried to line the two up as best I can with streetview. But I'm pretty sure I've got this right:

1952

2016

 

[PeteS]

I've tried to line the two up as best I can with streetview. But I'm pretty sure I've got this right:

View attachment 7445

1952


View attachment 7446

2016

Nifty bit of work there CuriousIdent! The 52 photo was clearly meant to portray the place as almost countrified which it obviously wasn't even then. If it wasn't for the vehicles from the 40's and 50's and the wide pavement you could almost mistake it for the Victorian era. I'm guessing that the car parked on the right is roughly where the bus is parked in the modern shot. The wide pavement is still there but has been moved back from the road to make room for the bus stop.