The Yuba County Five: 'An American Dyatlov Pass' Incident (1978)

[EnolaGaia]

That is kinda weird. The car had possibly gotten stuck. It could have been pushed out by the whole group, but they chose not to.

I've never been absolutely clear about the scene where the two cars were found. The VW had apparently skidded off the road and was sitting at least partially in / on a ditch. The clearest clue to Madruga's Mercury was that there were signs of his wheels having spun. I don't recall any account stating the Mercury was off the road, in the ditch, etc.

I've also never seen any clear statement as to whether the VW was blocking the way forward and therefore forced Madruga to stop there.

Madruga was reputedly quite proud of his car and treated it with care. My guess is that seeing the stuck Beetle was enough to make him stop and resist going any farther. The snow was already deep enough to cause the Mercury to drag underneath.

The signs of wheel spinning may have represented where Madruga lost traction entirely, or perhaps where he began braking to a stop.

I suspect Madruga would have been very apprehensive about the prospect of backing the car away over an indeterminate distance (quite possibly miles), and he / they considered the situation an inescapable dead end.

 

[EnolaGaia]

It does kind of give a small amount of credence to the notion that the rest of the group were waiting for Mathias to return from somewhere. Although by the time they hiked up to the Ranger station it may well be that they'd also lost their bearings enough that finding their way back to the car again seemed unlikely to them.

The first three bodies found were lying near the primary road between the parked car and the bunkhouse / trailer site. As a result, it's unclear how many of the five ever made it to the bunkhouse. One can sketch any number of scenarios that resulted in 3 bodies along the way - heading either to or from the bunkhouse.

Maybe all 5 made it to the bunkhouse and 3 died trying to retrace their path back toward the car; maybe the 3 died that first night while Mathias / Weiher pressed on. We'll never know ...

I increasingly suspect at least 2 of the party (Madruga and whichever of the other 2 was his close buddy) died on the way toward the bunkhouse. I tend to suspect the third found separately (Weiher's best buddy - Huett or Sterling; I forget which ...) also died without reaching the bunkhouse.

One must bear in mind we have no solid reason to believe the 5 guys all abandoned the car and hiked off as a single group.

I do think there was at least one breakout attempt made from the bunkhouse. The news accounts mention one or more blankets and one or more flashlights from the bunkhouse being found at a minor distance (I want to say a quarter mile) from the bunkhouse. Some accounts mention 3 blankets; others just one. I can't tell if these refer to one discovery or multiple separate discoveries.

As I recall, the blankets were found northwest of the bunkhouse. This wouldn't have been the direction from which they'd approached, assuming they were following Sno-Cat tracks leading directly to the bunkhouse site. This insinuates the hypothetical breakout attempt occurred after the big snow obliterated their tracks and left them navigationally challenged.

Weiher's body was swaddled in sheets alone. I tend to suspect whoever finally covered him took the blankets and tried unsuccessfully to escape.

 

[Misfitdoll]

Has anyone ever seen photos related to this case (other than the strip that contains their snapshots) ? I'm figuring there's forensic evidence that's been logged. Why has it not been made public?

 

[EnolaGaia]

Has anyone ever seen photos related to this case (other than the strip that contains their snapshots) ? I'm figuring there's forensic evidence that's been logged. Why has it not been made public?

I've never seen any contemporary photos taken at the time. I've only ever seen later photos illustrating the scene at the bunkhouse / trailer location, and none of these were labeled as coming from authorities' files.

There may have been autopsy photos, but I've never seen any nor do I recall ever seeing any reference to autopsy photos. The same goes for photos of the scenes where the bodies were discovered.

I've never seen any mention of photos being taken at the site where the guys abandoned their car. Since the car was serviceable once freed from the snow, there's a good chance it was simply driven back to whichever sheriff's department was in the lead at that point before being searched in any detail. There are plenty of references to what was found inside the car, but no clues as to when, where, and how many times the car may have been searched.

I've never even seen any photo that was claimed to be of Madruga's car.

By the time the bodies were discovered (months later) the case was being treated as a missing persons case. There may not have been a perceived need to treat the body recovery scenes as crime scenes, or at least no perceived need to document the scenes as completely as might have occurred if (e.g.) murder had been suspected.

Another problem with tracking down whatever forensic evidence may have been collected is that in the end there were sheriffs' offices from 3 different counties involved in the case. The first was the county where the guys resided (the original missing persons case). The second was the county where their car was found. The third was the county where the bunkhouse / trailer was located.

For all I know, there may have been 3 separate batches of evidence and documentation.

A fourth party would have been the federal authorities overseeing the lands where the guys died. My impression from the news stories of the time is that the county law enforcement agencies were given the lead in investigating the case, so I have no specific reason to believe the federal folks collected any evidence separately from the sheriffs' departments.

There was no requirement that any forensic evidence, photos, etc., had to be made public. The whole story faded once the bodies were found and everyone assumed the guys had all frozen to death.

Because his body was never found, I believe that technically there's still an open case on Gary Mathias' disappearance. It's conceivable that whatever documentation exists is not subject to public disclosure so long as a portion of the overall case remains open.

 

[Misfitdoll]

Here's something I haven't seen addressed. Considering he was much smaller than Weiher, with less fat stores, shouldn't Mathias have starved to death before Ted?

 

[EnolaGaia]

Here's something I haven't seen addressed. Considering he was much smaller than Weiher, with less fat stores, shouldn't Mathias have starved to death before Ted?

That would be a very good point if there'd been any evidence Mathias had stayed at the bunkhouse trailer for any length of time.

Somebody wrapped the sheets around Weiher in such a manner the authorities claimed Weiher couldn't have uncovered and re-covered himself. This was part of the basis for concluding Weiher hadn't moved since being wrapped up.

There was no evidence of mass or long-term consumption of the canned food, so it was always presumed whoever left Weiher at the bunkhouse evacuated not that long after arriving there, after opening a number of cans and leaving them for Weiher to subsist on until help could be found and brought back.

It must also be borne in mind that the only evidence Mathias was ever at the bunkhouse was the fact his tennis shoes were found there (and Weiher's more substantial shoes were missing).

 

[Misfitdoll]

I was assuming it had been Mathias that covered him. I have no other explanation. Weiher lived for nearly 3 months, so either someone was there with him the whole time, or came back to find him, deceased.

It's forever bugging me that they didn't find the cache of food. In 3 months, you'd think there'd be nothing better to do than explore. And not covering the broken window. And not starting a fire.

 

[EnolaGaia]

I'm not sure Weiher survived all that long. If he never moved from his swaddled position on a bunk, he would have expired from lack of water long before he would have starved to death.

Additionally, part of the weight / mass loss mentioned for his corpse could well have been freeze-drying desiccation.

I don't think whoever swaddled him at the bunkhouse spent much time there before leaving. Someone found the canned food stores, opened multiple cans, and left a total of up to 3 dozen (?) cans near Weiher's bunk.

The lack of evidence for lengthy occupation / exploration / exploitation of the bunkhouse site (by anyone in addition to Weiher) is consistent with hasty action in light of a sense of urgency (or even panic).

 

[Misfitdoll]

it's believed he survived for nearly 3 months, based upon the length of his beard and the fact that he had lost close to 100 lbs.

 

[EnolaGaia]

it's believed he survived for nearly 3 months, based upon the length of his beard and the fact that he had lost close to 100 lbs.

That's the impression left by the newspaper articles, and it's never been clear where or how the papers obtained the factoids they published. The newspaper accounts mention maximum ranges, not concluded figures, for how many weeks Weiher could have lived (up to 8 - 13) and / or how much weight his body had lost (up to 80 - 100 lbs.).

To the best of my knowledge, Ted Weiher's autopsy report was never released. Without seeing the actual documentation I don't put a lot of stock in what I believe was effectively courthouse hearsay (in the news accounts).

In 1978 it wasn't widely acknowledged that beards could 'grow' after death in the first place, and it hasn't been until much more recently that it's been recognized that much of the 'growth' attributed in such cases results from skin / tissue shrinkage rather than actual hair growth.

Similarly, the effects of long-term desiccation weren't widely known or recognized. This means I suspect they over-estimated the length of time he'd survived because they assumed all weight loss had to have occurred via metabolism alone.

Another problem is ambiguity about whatever weight was assumed to be the baseline for Weiher - i.e., his weight at the time of the guys' disappearance. Was Ted or his family keeping reasonable track of his weight? Wouldn't he have been losing rather than gaining weight during his active participation in the basketball season (which had largely concluded)?

Until and unless I see actual autopsy data supporting what I believe to be over-estimates, if not outright exaggerations (by the journalists), I'll continue to strongly suspect Weiher didn't last anywhere near the 8 weeks alleged to represent the minimum possible length of his survival time.

It's pretty clear (based on the evidence) Weiher was left alone within a very short time after he and however-many others made it to the bunkhouse / trailer. It's not clear at all how long he may have survived from that point onward.

 

[Austin Popper]

That 8-13 week estimate doesn't make any sense to me, for several reasons. That trailer would have been winterized, so there would be no running water, if indeed it had it in the summer. It doesn't seem like that group, however many made it to the camp, would have done well with obtaining water by melting snow. There was no heat, and no way to melt snow. Then there is the gangrene. I'm sure the frostbite occurred on the long trudge to the camp. How long would that poor fellow last if he couldn't even walk? What about the toilet? That's a management problem for someone who knew what to do. I'm thinking none of them would likely have lasted eight days, let alone eight weeks.

We are probably decades past getting any details about what exactly was found in the trailer, among many other things.

 

[EnolaGaia]

The impression I get is that anyone other than Weiher who made it to the trailer didn't stay long. If they had, there should have been much more evidence of habitation (open food cans, etc.).

Somebody recognized there was canned food, opened a number of cans, and left them there with Weiher. Therefore it can't be said whoever was there was totally oblivious to the supplies available.

It makes just as much sense to think he / they were in a hurry to leave again. One possible motivation would have been sheer panic (which doesn't match the care taken in getting Weiher settled on the bunk with food nearby).

Another reasonable explanation would be that there was an urgent need to go somewhere. One possible example for such a need would be one or more of the guys that had been left behind on the trek to the trailer.

Three blankets and a flashlight were found 0.25 miles northwest of the trailer. One source referred a single blanket having been found a similar distance from the trailer. It's never been clear to me whether:

(a) There were in fact 4 blankets found in 2 different places relatively near the trailer; or
(b) These mentions were 2 different versions of one thing (some number of blankets found once).

In other words, it may be that however many guys made it to the trailer with Weiher got him stabilized and then set out ASAP to deal with something else that remained pending.

I don't know, and I doubt we'll ever know for certain ...

 

[XEPER_]

I just wanted to thank EnolaGaia for the posts in this thread, excellent job! I read a bit about this case yesterday, listened to a podcast, and thought it was really weird but reading your ideas has made it all seem a lot more straightforward and less creepy.

One thing I don't really see mentioned though, what about the post that appeared online apparently by some relative of one of the men, saying Mathias was beaten and thrown off Oroville Bridge before the others disappeared? It would actally fit in with the suggesing that he wasn't even in the car with them when they got stuck. It's near the bottom of the comments here, by user Huett: https://charleyross.wordpress.com/2017/06/22/lets-talk-about-it-gary-mathias-and-his-four-friends/

 

[EnolaGaia]

One thing I don't really see mentioned though, what about the post that appeared online apparently by some relative of one of the men, saying Mathias was beaten and thrown off Oroville Bridge before the others disappeared? It would actally fit in with the suggesing that he wasn't even in the car with them when they got stuck. It's near the bottom of the comments here, by user Huett: https://charleyross.wordpress.com/2017/06/22/lets-talk-about-it-gary-mathias-and-his-four-friends/

It's never been clear why some people - long after the fact - raised a story that Mathias had been in trouble with unnamed parties in the area. To the best of my knowledge, this was never reported to the authorities nor was there anything in the investigation's results to indicate any violence had taken place.

The problem with the story Mathias was murdered separately from the other 4 and wasn't even with them lies in the fact his tennis shoes were found at the bunkhouse trailer.

A number of folks who've commented online about the case have focused on the lodge past which the boys drove on their way up the road and to which Shones / Schons hiked the following day. Some have fixated on the notion that the boys had stopped at the lodge and some sort of bullying or a fight occurred. I've never seen any mention that the authorities believed the boys stopped there at all.

 

[EnolaGaia]

I just wanted to thank EnolaGaia for the posts in this thread, excellent job! ...

Thanks!

 

[CuriousIdent]

A number of folks who've commented online about the case have focused on the lodge past which the boys drove on their way up the road and to which Shones / Schons hiked the following day. Some have fixated on the notion that the boys had stopped at the lodge and some sort of bullying or a fight occurred. I've never seen any mention that the authorities believed the boys stopped there at all.

Was that a separate incident to the guy who was having cardiac trouble claiming to have seen a group of people (who may/may not have been the group in question) from his car?

Or something different.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Was that a separate incident to the guy who was having cardiac trouble claiming to have seen a group of people (who may/may not have been the group in question) from his car?
Or something different.

Shones / Schon was the guy with the VW who got stuck in the snow and who claimed to have seen a party of people that night. He had stopped at the lodge on his way up the road before getting stuck, and he hiked back to the lodge the morning after. That following morning Madruga's car was parked behind his VW. It hadn't been there when he'd gotten stuck.

It's never been clear whether the people Shones / Schon claimed to have seen during the night were the guys from Madruga's car (i.e., the Yuba County 'boys') or somebody else.

 

[CuriousIdent]

Shones / Schon was the guy with the VW who got stuck in the snow and who claimed to have seen a party of people that night. He had stopped at the lodge on his way up the road before getting stuck, and he hiked back to the lodge the morning after. That following morning Madruga's car was parked behind his VW. It hadn't been there when he'd gotten stuck.

It's never been clear whether the people Shones / Schon claimed to have seen during the night were the guys from Madruga's car (i.e., the Yuba County 'boys') or somebody else.

Agreed. And frankly (given that Shones / Schon was under some pretty specific stress at that point, likely drifting in and out of consciousness) it would be very difficult to conclusively say one way or another that what he believed he saw was a reliable account of what actually happened.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Agreed. And frankly (given that Shones / Schon was under some pretty specific stress at that point, likely drifting in and out of consciousness) it would be very difficult to conclusively say one way or another that what he believed he saw was a reliable account of what actually happened.

Agreed ... In addition to the psychological stress of getting stuck and the physical crisis of a mild heart attack, he crawled into his Beetle's back seat to rest with the engine running for heat and probably had a dose of carbon monoxide as a chaser.

By his own admission he was sleeping (or otherwise unconscious), so it's anyone's guess whether his report of other people stopping behind his car was 'real', a dream, or a hallucination.

I've always thought it strange that Schons / Shones wasn't interviewed more strenuously and / or his account remained so sketchy.

 

[XEPER_]

Agreed. And frankly (given that Shones / Schon was under some pretty specific stress at that point, likely drifting in and out of consciousness) it would be very difficult to conclusively say one way or another that what he believed he saw was a reliable account of what actually happened.

I'd say he must have been pretty drunk too!

 

[CuriousIdent]

I'd say he must have been pretty drunk too!

Well... yes.

 

[McAvennie]

This is what I love about the weird, 40 years on from this happening and it seems like the internet has only just discovered this one...

Suddenly, you get pages of debate and theories, lost down YouTube, Google Maps rabbit holes about something you never knew existed just a few days ago.

Sad case and probably a very normal answer. I'd go with Mathias having an episode at the snow line, running with the keys, the others confused and afraid giving chase, getting lost and eventually falling prey to animals. Probably fairly quickly. Weiher make it to the cabin where he finds Mathias. Eventually Mathias leaves after Weiher falls ill.

Still doesn't explain why they went up there. Shones is not quite right either, doesn't feel right.

 

[AlchoPwn]

Okay, firstly, most of these men were none too bright. Not utterly impractical, but used to doing what they were told by other smarter people. I have seen apparently smart people do stupid things when they panic.

I regard the Shone evidence as being very dubious. A person with a history of drinking, who is having a heart attack on the road is not a reliable witness. The "woman" seen could quite possibly have been a man with long hair and a bundle. There is no evidence of their being anyone else with them except for Shone's testimony. I think we should address it, but mainly discount it. It muddies things.

Now, there was snow, and snow could easily have covered the signs and that led them to miss their turn-off, sending them onto the unfamiliar road. Better drivers have missed more obvious turn-offs, myself included, I am sure.

The lack of bumps and dents on the car is the result of the weather. Snow had filled in the ruts on the road, until it became too deep and bogged the vehicle. Also, cold temperatures can actually cause metal dents to "pop" back into place, thus no dents (congratulations, now you're a qualified panel beater, you're welcome). This would have made the road even seem paved, up until the car gets bogged.

Next, their car is riding low to the ground, and gets bogged. Yes it could be re-started in warmer weather, but it got too cold, and rather than trying to un-bog the car, or staying in the car, the group does the dumb thing and sets off together looking for shelter, thinking they don't want to get buried alive in snow in their car. Perhaps they were trying to find a street sign to orient themselves?

The group decide to whistle for help as they travel in the hopes they will attract attention.

Apparently they don't see or try to help Shone, or they again do the dumb thing, and assume that a person who is crying for help can't help them. Perhaps they go quiet while trying to listen for the faint noise of Shone calling out, but can't detect it. As for the turning on and off of the lights, who knows? Some people claim they can hear better without lights on.

They travel for too long, and without proper clothing (no coat, remember). They get increasingly cold and frost bitten, and begin to run out of energy. No obvious paradoxical undressing though. They begin to fall down in the snow along the way.

Mathias and Weiher manage to find the trailer, and Mathias who is in better shape eventually sets off back into the snow to try to find and rescue their friends, or to get help. Again, the stupid thing to do. He too succumbs to exposure.

In the meantime, Weiher is left in the trailer. They don't even make the effort to cover the hole in the window, let alone find matches and make a fire. They never discovered the locker with the food in the shed, as it was not obvious and the sweep was satisfied with the obvious food and don't bother to go looking again. Mathias sets off, leaving Weiher in bad condition. Mathias dies of exposure, and Weiher succumbs to starvation, being immobile due to injury.

Now, when the animals find the carcasses, they carry away the part of the thigh with the pocket, or maybe even eat the keys, just gulping them down with thigh meat. There is no sign of robbery. Weiher still has all his money for example.

Remember, we are dealing with men who were none too bright. We should look to their odd decisions as being the work of increasingly desperate minds of diminished capacity. Their parents may say their boys wouldn't have just gone wandering off into the woods like quail, but group dynamics normally default to stupid among normal people, and the men weren't normal. Apart from a few items such as the keys and the glasses that went missing, there are no real anomalies, and there is no real evidence of foul play.

Death by misadventure.

 

[EnolaGaia]

... Now, there was snow, and snow could easily have covered the signs and that led them to miss their turn-off, sending them onto the unfamiliar road. Better drivers have missed more obvious turn-offs, myself included, I am sure.

Snow was not a factor in their missing any turn-offs leading to their presumed hometown destination after attending the game. They were traveling to and from the game down in the lowlands. Snow became a factor after they'd already become mis-(?)-directed onto the road leading up into the mountains.

According to the presumed plan (returning home after the game) they shouldn't have been on the road leading into the mountains at all. However, the turn-off to the community where Mathias was known to have contacts was on that road and not on their presumed path to and from the game.

This is why I suggested Mathias may have been visiting (or wanting to visit) his acquaintances at that community. Picking him up or leaving him there would have positioned Madruga (the driver) to set out in the fatal direction (up into the mountains) by simply making a wrong turn when coming out from that community, at the intersection with the mountain highway they should have not been on already.

Madruga, Mathias, and maybe even Weiher (who'd gone camping up that mountain highway in his youth) should have recognized they shouldn't have been on the mountain highway by the time they started ascending into the mountains.

... Next, their car is riding low to the ground, and gets bogged. Yes it could be re-started in warmer weather, but it got too cold, and rather than trying to un-bog the car, or staying in the car, the group does the dumb thing and sets off together looking for shelter, thinking they don't want to get buried alive in snow in their car. ...

The snow was deep enough to cause Madruga's car to 'drag' its undercarriage at the point where Madruga parked it. However, Madruga's car was not stuck, not off the road, nor non-start-able when discovered. The searchers started the car with no problem (via hot-wiring it?) though the engine had been completely 'cold'. The only reported signs of impediment were indications the car's wheels had spun (i.e., it had lost traction).

... Now, when the animals find the carcasses, they carry away the part of the thigh with the pocket, or maybe even eat the keys, just gulping them down with thigh meat. ...

Madruga's car keys were found with his remains, along the road between the car's parked location and the camp where Weiher was found. (See post #176)

IMHO the real mystery associated with the keys has to do with the state of the car when it was discovered. It was unlocked, and at least one window was rolled down (at least part-way). Taking the keys accomplished nothing beyond preventing someone from easily starting / stealing the car.

Madruga was claimed to be extremely proud and protective of his car. Given such an attitude, I can't understand why he would leave his prized vehicle unsecured in the middle of nowhere.

... Remember, we are dealing with men who were none too bright. We should look to their odd decisions as being the work of increasingly desperate minds of diminished capacity. Their parents may say their boys wouldn't have just gone wandering off into the woods like quail, but group dynamics normally default to stupid among normal people, and the men weren't normal. Apart from a few items such as the keys and the glasses that went missing, there are no real anomalies, and there is no real evidence of foul play.

Death by misadventure.

I basically agree with all this. My one quibble would be to point out there are degrees or levels of 'none-too-brightness', and that 2 key players among the boys (Madruga and Mathias) were plenty bright enough to have completed a round of Army service. Madruga was driving, and Mathias was the only one known to have connections that might have justified traveling on the road up into the mountains.

The others (as I understand it) were less demonstrably capable of independent decision making and were likely to have simply 'gone along' with trusted friends.

 

[AlchoPwn]

Snow was not a factor in their missing any turn-offs leading to their presumed hometown destination after attending the game. They were traveling to and from the game down in the lowlands. Snow became a factor after they'd already become mis-(?)-directed onto the road leading up into the mountains.

I would need to read solid evidence that snow was not a factor in them missing their turn-off. It is the most plausible answer imo. Nothing I have read about the case suggests anything else.

The snow was deep enough to cause Madruga's car to 'drag' its undercarriage at the point where Madruga parked it. However, Madruga's car was not stuck, not off the road, nor non-start-able when discovered. The searchers started the car with no problem (via hot-wiring it?) though the engine had been completely 'cold'. The only reported signs of impediment were indications the car's wheels had spun (i.e., it had lost traction).

By the time the searchers were on the scene, the weather was completely changed. None of the pre-existing conditions were evident. The party was lost in February. The search discovers them months later, long enough for Weiher to starve to death in the cold.

Madruga's car keys were found with his remains, along the road between the car's parked location and the camp where Weiher was found. (See post #176)

Good to know. So that means the only extant piece of evidence missing is the eye glasses, and the appearance of an odd watch. Hmm. I wonder if the whole story hinges on returning a lost gold watch for a reward?

IMHO the real mystery associated with the keys has to do with the state of the car when it was discovered. It was unlocked, and at least one window was rolled down (at least part-way). Taking the keys accomplished nothing beyond preventing someone from easily starting / stealing the car. Madruga was claimed to be extremely proud and protective of his car. Given such an attitude, I can't understand why he would leave his prized vehicle unsecured in the middle of nowhere.

I can. It became bogged, and the owner died of exposure before he could do much about it.

I basically agree with all this. My one quibble would be to point out there are degrees or levels of 'none-too-brightness', and that 2 key players among the boys (Madruga and Mathias) were plenty bright enough to have completed a round of Army service.

Srsly? You obviously haven't spent much time with the grunts. There is a reason they're in the army, not the airforce or navy. The only crew notably dumber are marines, who regularly don't or can't fill in their IQ tests. The army as a whole is not a haven for mental excellence. There are exceptions, notably the Intelligence service, Signals, and DARPA, but your average grunt ain't all that. Even the officers leave much to be desired. Ever wonder why the USA can't run decent counter-insurgency ops?

 

[Yithian]

I'm going to posit a distinction between 'intelligence' and initiative.

I wouldn't want them working on my philosophy project, but they'd know more than me about staying alive and maximising suvival chances, I suspect.

 

[AlchoPwn]

I wouldn't want them working on my philosophy project, but they'd know more than me about staying alive and maximising survival chances, I suspect.

I would strongly doubt that. I have spent time with military trainers and most of the time the lessons of training and survival would literally go in one ear and out the other. Yes, there were exceptions who understood that the things they were learning might save their lives, but that wasn't so ordinary. Most recruits being trained to serve were fresh out of school where they didn't do so well. Their efforts weren't for the purpose of learning, but for the purpose of passing a test, and thus without constant reinforcement, nothing was actually retained. You seem smarter than that Yithian, and I would be surprised if everyone on this forum wasn't smarter than that. I remember chatting with a former sergeant major who was forced to bark at privates who had forgotten how to raise their own pup tents in Vietnam for example.

 

[EnolaGaia]

I would need to read solid evidence that snow was not a factor in them missing their turn-off. It is the most plausible answer imo. Nothing I have read about the case suggests anything else.

You obviously don't understand the locale and timeline.

It wasn't snowing down in the lowlands between the party's hometown area and the site of the basketball game (Chico). Yuba City and the adjacent Marysville are in the Sacramento Valley, at an elevation of only circa 60 ft. above sea level. The average daily high temperature in February is on the order of 60 F. Snow is rare in the valley.

It was at the intermediate town of Oroville where they got off on the Oroville-Quincy Road (now Highway). Coming from Chico they had to pass through or by Oroville to even get to the road. The most direct route from Chico to Yuba City would have bypassed Oroville entirely. Oroville's climate is the same as Yuba City's, and average February snowfall there is 0.0 inches.

As I pointed out in post #95 it's difficult to see how they could accidentally get onto the Oroville-Quincy road without noticing they were, or intending to be, in Oroville. Conversely, it makes sense if they were headed to Forbestown, where Mathias had known connections.

The weather conditions spanning the hometown and game site area of intended travel didn't require anything more than the light jackets some of the guys were wearing.

The car was abandoned at an elevation of circa 4400 ft.

Once they bypassed the hometown area and headed another (circa) 20 miles up into the mountains they eventually encountered substantial standing snow. The snow pack on the road where Madruga's car was parked was on the order of 8 to 10 inches. This spot was still short of the point where the rangers had already closed that road for the winter.

The car was stopped in the area where the snow line began. It wasn't like Madruga had been driving in packed snow for miles and miles. Recall that Schons / Shones had proceeded onward from the lodge (circa 8 miles back from the car abandonment scene) specifically intending to determine where the snow line began.

By the time the searchers were on the scene, the weather was completely changed. None of the pre-existing conditions were evident. The party was lost in February. The search discovers them months later, long enough for Weiher to starve to death in the cold.

The car was discovered on the mountain road (abandoned) by a ranger on February 25 (the day following their trip / disappearance). When the ranger learned of a missing persons incident, he notified the authorities about a car matching the missing one. The investigators went to the site, inspected the car, and retrieved it on February 28.

A major blizzard hit quite soon thereafter (perhaps starting late on February 28), obliterating everything and forcing suspension of search activities at or beyond the car abandonment site.

There were no significant changes in weather and / or snow pack between the night the boys disappeared and the day the authorities recovered their car.

It wouldn't be until the spring thaw that the bodies were found.

It must be borne in mind that the investigators seemed to focus on the notion Madruga's car had been abandoned by someone else (perhaps after having stolen it). They didn't seem to think the boys had wandered so far off course, and they didn't seem to seriously think the boys could or would have left the car and hiked even farther onward.

The investigation proceeded from February until June (when Weiher's body was discovered) with primary attention to possible leads back down in the valley / lowlands.

 

[AlchoPwn]

You obviously don't understand the locale and timeline. It wasn't snowing down in the lowlands between the party's hometown area and the site of the basketball game (Chico). Yuba City and the adjacent Marysville are in the Sacramento Valley, at an elevation of only circa 60 ft. above sea level. The average daily high temperature in February is on the order of 60 F. Snow is rare in the valley.

Fair enough. Then much hinges on the anomalous gold watch. I posit that they were returning the gold watch for a reward, and that is why they detoured. An accidental turn off becomes one with purpose, and in keeping with the evidence. I think that if the owner of the anomalous watch is found, the whole mystery will unravel.

 

[CuriousIdent]

Srsly? You obviously haven't spent much time with the grunts. There is a reason they're in the army, not the airforce or navy. The only crew notably dumber are marines, who regularly don't or can't fill in their IQ tests. The army as a whole is not a haven for mental excellence. There are exceptions, notably the Intelligence service, Signals, and DARPA, but your average grunt ain't all that. Even the officers leave much to be desired. Ever wonder why the USA can't run decent counter-insurgency ops?

To be fair, we're not talking about a whole crew of military 'grunts' here. I would be cautious to generalise. While the reports of the day use what we see nowadays as archaic and grotesquely simplistic terms I would be reluctant to write off any of these guys purely because a reporter labelled them all as as 'mentally retarded'. In the 70s we still very much allowed folks to write-off anybody with Autism, Aspergers, Dyslexia, Downes and a dozen other conditions as somehow being the self-same thing. They'd just get labelled as 'retards' and that was that.

Which is utter bollocks really. Having worked in offices with with people who are autistic, and one guy with Aspergers, to say that even those two conditions are the same simply isn't true. People on the Autistic spectrum can be incredibly smart. They can have very high IQs. They can be very pragmatic. Where they have difficulty is in reading social situations, and interpersonal relationships. That might not impede them any more than any average guy would be, if placed in a survival situation.

To assume that these guys were just a bunch of dumbasses would be a pretty sweeping (not to mention relatively unfounded) assumption.

For the record, I too suspect that they ended up in this area because Matthias' had requested that they drive him to Forebestown, where he could meet a contact of his, and having got lost either on the way or on the way back.