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The Death Of Yevgeny Prigozhin (Wagner PMC)

I don't know who else was on board that plane, but that is what I find so horrific. One person 'has to die' in Putin's act of retribution - so he casually offs 9 other people as well. I appreciate that it is unlikely that any other them were saints - I guess some may have been Wagner types as well maybe - but even so it is pretty chilling. I suppose it is a bit like the Novichok in Salisbury. Other victims are just collateral.
Seems to be Prigozhin's second in command and several other top-ranking Wagner operatives.
Don't know about the pilot.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...agner-commander-plane-crash-yevgeny-prigozhin
 
Considering the second-in-command was hit too, it's very much in Putin's favour as this will leave a power vacuum.
If the intention is to absorb the Wagners into the regular military, this will help but it leaves a lot of questions. The mercs are the muscle in various trouble-spots, especially in Africa, so will they remain in place? Russian influence in these states is largely what support it can give weak leaderships but those leaders have to give Russia something in return, and not just money.
Sure, the numbers of mercs and regulars haven't changed, but the dynamics have. Without a clear Kremlin-friendly yet independent leadership, many of the Wagners are going to ask themselves if they want the same pay and conditions as the regulars, held under command of politicians rather than autonomous senior officers. And how are the regulars going to feel about the Wagner officers taking command over them after their state loyalty has been questioned?
 
According to BBC Radio interview with their Russia correspondent just now, there is some doubt that Prigozhin was on the plane.
 
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So, according to BBC Radio interview with their Russia correspondent just now, there is some doubt that Prigozhin was on the plane.
Prigozhin is a billionaire. He'd have used his own private jet. I also don't trust a word the BBC writes or says on matters like this as they do their masters bidding who also lie.
 
I read somewhere that Prigozhin supposedly died in a plane crash in 2019, but re-surfaced a little while later. I noted that the news reports were saying he was "presumed" to have died tonight. I guess it'd be a good way of getting Putin off your tail at the expense of other people's lives...
 
This analyst on Twitter has some good takes - nr.3 would be a great plot twist:
Velina Tchakarova
@vtchakarova


‼️❗️A very long update on #Prigozhin's death news.
There are three plausible scenarios regarding Prigozhin's abrupt demise in the fog of misinformation and disinformation. The most widely accepted and circulated perspective ties it to Putin's strategic retaliation. If this turns out to be the case, I will publicly admit my error, especially given that I've consistently advocated the view that Prigozhin's rebellion was orchestrated. Similarly, I admitted my error in my assessment back in February, when I, despite being correct on the timing of the war, had wrongfully outlined that Russia would only launch a limited military operation in the South and East of Ukraine instead of full-scale war. What are the three key scenarios as events are unfolding?

1. Putin's Power Play: Most analysts lean towards the idea that Putin strategically sought to dismantle the leadership of the Wagner PMC. Historical instances have made it evident that Putin possesses little to no tolerance for political treachery or betrayal. The timing of the formal removal of Surovikin as the head of Russia's Aerospace Forces could hint that Putin purposefully timed a devastating plane crash to coincide with Prigozhin's journey. Such a move would send a stark warning to any political adversaries contemplating an uprising or coup, especially as Putin readies for his upcoming presidential campaign. It's worth noting that even though Prigozhin has consistently been loyal to Putin and showed no intent of vying for his position, his divulgence about the ongoing Ukrainian war and Russia's internal bureaucratic shortcomings might have been the catalyst for this dramatic retaliatory act. Prigozhin turned from Putin's liability to a very high risk due to his behavior. This scenario is currently the most widely accepted, given the limited information available, and Russia's proclivity for misinformation only adds to the obscurity.

2. Retaliation by the Military Faction: This scenario suggests that Prigozhin might have been targeted by the very military faction whose secrets he unveiled on the day of his mutiny. Such an act could herald the beginning of a broader cleansing, initiated not necessarily under Putin's auspices but by those Prigozhin previously challenged. But speculation also runs rife that certain military factions are disillusioned with Putin's dealings with prominent figures like Gerasimov and Shoigu. There's a brewing contention over who will inherit Prigozhin's expansive business operations across Africa and the Middle East. In this turbulent scenario, the recent appearance of Gen. Andrey Averyanov, the head GRU, at high-profile Russia-Africa meetings, make the situation even more intricate. Furthermore, prominent figures like Yevkurov, Shoigu's deputy, along with 13 other generals, have mysteriously vanished for the last months. Yevkurov only reappeared yesterday on a trip to Libya to visit Haftar - a playground for Wagner activities in the past. As the aftermath unfolds, the true controllers of Prigozhin's business ventures, be it Putin's siloviki or MoD's mercenary forces, will emerge as crucial indicators. Rumors abound that while Putin might have sway over Shoigu, the Russian army remains out of both their grasps due to the mood by the military hawks requires a careful consideration. Gen Gerassimov hasn't been seen publicly since the beginning of July. Given this dynamic, the ensuing power struggle over control of Wagner's operations post-Prigozhin will be crucial to observe.

3. Strategic Misdirection: Another compelling narrative surrounds Prigozhin's recent undertakings, such as the hybrid operation against Poland and the Baltic States via Belarus and his engagements in Africa after the coup in Niger which suited Putin's geopolitical interests. The fact that the Wagner PMC operates as a state-backed entity rather than a private mercenary group fuels speculation that Prigozhin's death might be a fabrication. A recent video that surfaced showed Prigozhin, seemingly in Africa's Sahel region. Given Rosaviatia's announcement of the plane crash and Russia's stranglehold over news distribution, this could well be an intricate ploy, possibly to expose internal conspirators against Putin, particularlya in the military and security apparatus. This lends credibility to the notion that Prigozhin's apparent demise might be a psychological operation, a tactic he's infamously employed elsewhere. The constant movements of Prigozhin and his team between Russia and foreign lands without any restrictions over the recent months as well as the announcement that the whole leadership was on a single place further appear suspicious. However, this is the least likely scenario. (You see last footage of Prigozhin from August 21 via CNN) #Foresight #Velsig #geopolitics #WagnerPMC
 
Firstly, whatever the Kremlin says everyone - including the Russian people knows it was an assassination by Putin. That is the point - it sends out the message that no one - absolutely no one - threatens Putin. I imagine they'll blame Ukraine - but no one is fooled.
Secondly, considering the height of the windows that other officials have 'accidentally' fallen from, this death shows how important Putin considered Prigozhin - you can't get higher than an airplane other than launching him into space.
Current information says it was probably a ground-to-air missile, though I'd assume his 'plane would have ECM. This must've been nobbled.
Didn't the whole of the Polish goverment on the way to Russia get blown up or crashed around 15 years ago ?
 

Mystery over Wagner plane crash bodies’ ‘missing heads’


An alleged investigator who was present at the scene of the plane crash involving Wagner Group's chief Prigozhin has leaked distressing information about the state of the corpses found at the crash site.

The unnamed source claimed that "several" of the bodies discovered lacked heads.

Video footage captured shortly after the crash depicts a scene of chaos and devastation, with emergency responders and authorities on site attempting to manage the aftermath.

Official authorities have not yet commented on the leaked information.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1805769/Prigozhin-dead-plane-crash-headless-bodies

maximus otter
 
I think it was a setup to fake Prigozhin's death. He's probably in a dungeon right now, being tortured by Putin.
 
Interesting development.
"Wagner fighters are furious and vowing vengeance"
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/wagner-fighters-furious-vowing-vengeance-161535369.html
It's difficult to know how true this is, but if it is then Putin made one great tactical mistake. He thought killing the boss gave him control over a large and experienced fighting force. He didn't bank on the troops loyalty.
Still, it's in his personality - when you rule by fear, you assume loyalty is due to the most feared leader. Actual, personal loyalty doesn't come into the equation.
 
Video footage, purporting to show the Wagner plane's missing wing, with missile damage conspicuously absent.
However, the landing strut being attached to this means that something absolutely catastrophic happened to it in mid air.
That highly suggests an internal source for the energy.
That would also be consistent with fuel misting obbserved in the plummet video.
The wing centre box would have been breached as the wing and landing tear tore away, venting huig amounts of fuel.
That was a very costly box of wine!
 
Putin publicly said Yevgeny had “ a complicated fate and made a mistake “.

I am surprised that Yevgeny would not have been on the lookout for something like this.

I am surprised that Yevgeny got on small jet plane with other Wagner members.

Do we really know if Yevgeny was really on that plane or is this a faked death ?
 
CNN reported that data showed the pilot was aware of the situation and struggled for a minute to stabilize the plane but failed.
 
The video of the falling Prigozhin aircraft is now said to be fake,
the same footage having been used to show a Russian aircraft
shot down by the Wagner group during their march on Moscow,
though video of a downed aircraft is thought to be Prigozhin's aircraft.
 
The video of the falling Prigozhin aircraft is now said to be fake,
the same footage having been used to show a Russian aircraft
shot down by the Wagner group during their march on Moscow,
though video of a downed aircraft is thought to be Prigozhin's aircraft.
And down the rabbit hole......
 
The video of the falling Prigozhin aircraft is now said to be fake,
the same footage having been used to show a Russian aircraft
shot down by the Wagner group during their march on Moscow,
though video of a downed aircraft is thought to be Prigozhin's aircraft.

Maybe the actual video would have shown the exhaust trails of the missiles, or the Russian markings on the MiG that launched them…

:evillaugh:

maximus otter
 
Maybe the actual video would have shown the exhaust trails of the missiles, or the Russian markings on the MiG that launched them…

:evillaugh:

maximus otter
I think if Putin wanted Prigozhin dead it would been much more subtle than shooting down an aircraft.
 
In fairness, subtle is not his style.
Exactly.
The bigger the mess, the louder the statement.
Any denial or supposition is meaningless as Putin would consider the message to be so sunsubtle, it's enough.
 
We were told those were carried out by Russians. I don't believe Western MSM anymore than I believe Russia.
Fair enough. Not up to me to convince you otherwise.
As the great Swift is reported to have said...
One cannot reason a person out of a position into which they have not reasoned themselves in the first place.
:wink2:
 
Fair enough. Not up to me to convince you otherwise.
As the great Swift is reported to have said...
One cannot reason a person out of a position into which they have not reasoned themselves in the first place.
:wink2:
I'm not in any 'position'. The point I was making was that I do not trust western MSM or Russia. We simply know only what we've been told by the west and we've no way of knowing if it's true or not.
 
I'm not in any 'position'. The point I was making was that I do not trust western MSM or Russia. We simply know only what we've been told by the west and we've no way of knowing if it's true or not.
Fully acknowledged - I was yanking your chain :p
 
I think if Putin wanted Prigozhin dead it would been much more subtle than shooting down an aircraft.

I find it rather subtle :

* In recent history, another great would-be putchist, Lin Biao, died in a plane crash after the failure of his coup against Mao Zedong,
* The accident has killed two birds in one stroke : the "political" and the military boss of Wagner.
* In Greek Mythology, a fatal fall is the standard punishment for those who challenge the gods' preeminence : Bellerophon was unhorsed for attempting to fly up to mount Olympus, and Daedalus' son, Icarus, fell down into the Egean because he wanted to fly too high. Actually, this is not strictly a Greek thing : the myth of Lucifer and his "fallen angels" is another illustration of this theme. The Gods punish those who challenge their order, making them fall down.

The message is all the more striking : it's not Putin who punished Prigozhyn, it's God. Please remember that Putin tries to appear as the defender of the orthodox Church, the new Tsar ... Besides, it is often pointed out that the far-right supported Prigozhyn. Isn't the Russian Far Right ultra-orthodox ? Letting "God" assume the responsibility of punishing the rebel is an astute way to show that he had made the wrong choice, and that Putin was the rightful ruler.
 
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