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The Death Of Yevgeny Prigozhin (Wagner PMC)

blessmycottonsocks

blessmycottonsocks

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Wagner leader Yevgeny Prigozhin may have died in plane crash north of Moscow, according to breaking news on Sky just now.
 
But does bringing an aeroplane down count as a "falling death"?
In fact, there must be very few actual falling deaths. it's the sudden stop at the end of the fall that kills you.
 
Supposedly a private Embraer plane which makes me suspicious, since this Brazilian plane has one of the best safety records.

Also, this was not a commercial flight, very suspicious.
 
Mythopoeika said:
No surprise at all. It was a question of when, not if.
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You guys are so cynical. It's just a tragic coincidence. Obvs.

Mind you, the other people who got on that plane with him were brave souls. I guess they figured it was cheaper than going to Dignitas, I suppose.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
But does bringing an aeroplane down count as a "falling death"?
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Well, technically yes.
Airplane or not, he fell. How much was intact is a different discussion.
You might call it suicide - publically challenging a psychopathic dictator with a superior armed force - but, as Myth says ... it was only a matter of time.
"Now, pay attention 007 ..."
Putin couldn't let him live. He'd be shown as weak to a challenge. As a major oligarch who'd risen in the ranks of state corruption, Putin had to send 'signals' out to others.
However, who takes over from Prigozhin? Who takes command of a well-equipped, well-funded mercenary group, active all around the world especially in Africa - that seems to be getting ... interesting?
Who takes command and what lessons will they learn?
Buckle under a financially-struggling leader who needs your troops because dissent is ... unhealthy?
If you do strike 'at home', follow it through and don't expect the Dictator to honour any nice deals? Use your own men as cannon-fodder, thereby losing your loyalty, or more importantly, your income stream?
How will the the Wagner Mercs themselves react? Give in and be subsumed into the underpaid, underquipped national army, or just 'go on strike'?
When the Chinese said interesting times, they weren't considering such a complicated world.
 
Now the news is reporting head of Russia Air Force, Sergey Surovikin, has been dismissed and could be in danger ?
 
Of the reports I read it either says that Prighozin is presumed dead or simply that he was on the passenger list. They do not state that he is confirmed dead.
 
What do you think? Anti-aircraft missile, bomb on board or other sabotage? It's unlikely that the Russians will give straight story.
 
According to pictures of the crash, the fuselage had distinctive holes that will tell which kind of missile was used.

It is claimed that intelligence groups already know the story.
 
Timble2 said:
What do you think? Anti-aircraft missile, bomb on board or other sabotage? It's unlikely that the Russians will give straight story.
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Something catastrophic happened - the video shows a plane plummeting in freefall. My guess is bomb on board. A missile could well be witnessed & as it happened in Russia, that would pretty much pin it on Russian forces. A bomb is more ambiguous.

It’ll be interesting to see what Russia says about it.
 
hunck said:
Something catastrophic happened - the video shows a plane plummeting in freefall. My guess is bomb on board. A missile could well be witnessed & as it happened in Russia, that would pretty much pin it on Russian forces. A bomb is more ambiguous.

It’ll be interesting to see what Russia says about it.
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Last I heard about Prigozhin, he was either stirring up trouble in Africa, or in some training camp in Belarus, so what persuaded him to fly to Moscow?
 
Firstly, whatever the Kremlin says everyone - including the Russian people knows it was an assassination by Putin. That is the point - it sends out the message that no one - absolutely no one - threatens Putin. I imagine they'll blame Ukraine - but no one is fooled.
Secondly, considering the height of the windows that other officials have 'accidentally' fallen from, this death shows how important Putin considered Prigozhin - you can't get higher than an airplane other than launching him into space.
Current information says it was probably a ground-to-air missile, though I'd assume his 'plane would have ECM. This must've been nobbled.
 
My prediction for the Kremlin's statement:
Text: It was a hostile attack by Ukraine.
What everyone hears: You mess with me, I'll f*ck you up! Mess with me a lot, you get f*cked up a lot!
 
charliebrown said:
the fuselage had distinctive holes that will tell which kind of missile was used
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Surface-to-air missiles (and air-to-air) are designed with a warhead payload of destructive 'shrapnel' which expand upon explosion of the missile to destroy the aircraft they hit.
They aren't solely reliant on the blast from the nearby detonation of the explosive itself, as this would be insufficient to bring down most aircraft.
 
Practical reasons for this:
A single warhead, contact detonated, relies on incredibly accurate targeting systems to hit a very fast-moving distant target. Whereas, if you use a proximity detonation, you don't need masses of explosives to destroy - you just need grapeshot or shrapnel and you use the 'planes own speed to do the rest.
 
BBC news just now reported a claim that a bomb was smuggled on board concealed in a case of wine.
 
I don't know who else was on board that plane, but that is what I find so horrific. One person 'has to die' in Putin's act of retribution - so he casually offs 9 other people as well. I appreciate that it is unlikely that any of them were saints - I guess some may have been Wagner types as well maybe - but even so it is pretty chilling. I suppose it is a bit like the Novichok in Salisbury. Other victims are just collateral.
 
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CharmerKamelion said:
I don't know who else was on board that plane, but that is what I find so horrific. One person 'has to die' in Putin's act of retribution - so he casually offs 9 other people as well. I appreciate that it unlikely that any other them were saints - I guess some may have been Wagner types as well maybe - but even so it is pretty chilling. I suppose it is a bit like the Novichok in Salisbury. Other victims are just collateral.
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Yes, just sacrificial pawns.
 
CharmerKamelion said:
I don't know who else was on board that plane, but that is what I find so horrific. One person 'has to die' in Putin's act of retribution - so he casually offs 9 other people as well. I appreciate that it unlikely that any other them were saints - I guess some may have been Wagner types as well maybe - but even so it is pretty chilling. I suppose it is a bit like the Novichok in Salisbury. Other victims are just collateral.
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The BBC site has a list of passengers.
Who were the other passengers on the plane?
Adam Hancock

BBC News

Besides Yegeny Prigozhin and his right-hand man Dimitry Utkin, there were five other passengers on the plane, according to Russia's aviation authority. This is what we know about them:

Valeriy Chekalov
One of Prigozhin's closest friends, Chekalov had been with the Wagner leader since the 2000s, according to Russia observer Giorgi Revishvili.

Not only was he in charge of Wagner's logistics, he also oversaw Prigozhin's contracts supplying food to the military, as well as overseas projects involving geological exploration, oil production, or agriculture.

He was linked to Evropolis, a company which struck a lucrative oil deal with Syria and was paying Wagner fighters and procuring arms, according to investigative group All Eyes on Wagner.

Chekalov had been targeted by US sanctions for acting on behalf of Prigozhin and supplying arms to Russia.

Yevgeny Makaryan
A former district police officer, Makaryan joined Wagner in March 2016, according to investigative site Dossier Center.

He had fought for the mercenary group in Syria, and his callsign was "Makar".

Sergey Propustin
A Wagner fighter since 2015, Propustin used the callsign "Kedr" and had fought in the second Chechen war, according to Revishvili.

Dossier Center said he came from a unit which supplied Prigozhin with many of his personal bodyguards.

Alexander Totmin
Known by his callsign "Tot", Totmin often posted pictures on Instagram of his flashy lifestyle, according to journalist Michael D Weiss.

Nikolay Matuseev
While Dossier Center was unable to find a person with that name on Russian lists, they found a 'Nikolai Matusevich' who has fought with Wagner since 2017.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66599774
 
CharmerKamelion said:
One person 'has to die' in Putin's act of retribution - so he casually offs 9 other people as well.
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It's not a matter if they were nice or nasty people - when you are an amoral dictator like Putin everyone elses' lives are worthless.
Like when an extremist group blow up an event where some attendees are their own supporters, like those who perpetrate false flag operations - the dead aren't humans, they are just collateral items.
As far as Putin is concerned, the more callous and cruel he is presented (true or not) the better.
 
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