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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

hunck said:
I think the only possible way to tell the difference would be an autopsy.

As I’ve said repeatedly, your friend may have have been one of those who had an adverse reaction to the vaccine. On the other hand it may have played no part. I don’t know what more I can add. I don’t 'have it as a known yes or no' - how could I?
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So? I made no claim more substantial that "his wife thought it was the vaccine".
marhawkman said:
yeah, the guy close to our family who died... vaccine wasn't cause of death... officially, his wife thought it was, and so on, but it got called a heart attack. But why a heart attack?
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I don't have enough info to make a claim of my own.

And you decided to shout me down with a bunch of whataboutisms that I can't answer because it was not my claim in the first place.
 
At any rate, to go back to the important stuff.... It's not as simple as "do an autopsy".... since current autopsy procedures may or may not even notice.

Yeah, "he died of a heart attack" is technically true, but WHY did he have a heart attack? Is the autopsy even going to go into that much detail?

And like the other guy said... if doctors are being pressured to not even look? that's a problem with getting good info.
 
Here's a Zerohedge repost of an article in another conspiratorial publication. So there is probably a lot of bias here.
The article claims that any idea of a lab leak, even among knowledgeable scientist, was suppressed by the higher ups. To me it does not sound as trying to hide evidence, but more like "let's not give red meat to the conspiracy thinkers". Still, I think that trying to avoid mentioning hypotheses that could be abused by conspiracy thinkers and political players is a bad strategy. It does not work and probably makes the situation worse.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/...messages-reveal-massive-media-deception-fauci

I'm curious how the story will develop further. I think lab leak is still less probable than wet market, but it is gaining credibility.

Screenshot_20230719-065243_Manifold.jpg
 
uair01 said:
Still, I think that trying to avoid mentioning hypotheses that could be abused by conspiracy thinkers and political players is a bad strategy. It does not work and probably makes the situation worse.
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I agree, for the most part, that if a well thought out hypotheses that has been researched is presented, then it can be worked with in order to go forward for any question or problem. And then released.

However, early on, and still, countries have been reticent to release any information they might have to better deal with the questions of where, when and how covid started. Without better information available, a hypothesis is only a supposition.

Any scientist or researcher who values the quality of their work do not release what may be invalid research based on an invalid hypothesis. Their reputation is at risk, as well as the ethics that they consider when releasing research. It is sloppy at best and disastrous at worst.

Add to this, media who understand nothing of the research and want readers and you get lots of incorrect information in short time.

Do not forget that people even related to one particular country have been vilified simply because of bad and downright wrong information being released to the public before anything was even known about the virus per se.
 
brownmane said:
I agree, for the most part, that if a well thought out hypotheses that has been researched is presented, then it can be worked with in order to go forward for any question or problem. And then released.

However, early on, and still, countries have been reticent to release any information they might have to better deal with the questions of where, when and how covid started. Without better information available, a hypothesis is only a supposition.

Any scientist or researcher who values the quality of their work do not release what may be invalid research based on an invalid hypothesis. Their reputation is at risk, as well as the ethics that they consider when releasing research. It is sloppy at best and disastrous at worst.

Add to this, media who understand nothing of the research and want readers and you get lots of incorrect information in short time.

Do not forget that people even related to one particular country have been vilified simply because of bad and downright wrong information being released to the public before anything was even known about the virus per se.
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Yeah, people were trying to ministry of Truth stuff... when they didn't even know the truth.

that is not good for anyone, except those perpetuating it.
 
I participate in a prediction on this topic in the Manifold prediction market, so I get a lot of updates from all sides.

This is again from Zerohedge, so handle with care and don't trust everything:


US Finally Cancels Funding To Wuhan Lab
Wednesday, Jul 19, 2023

The US government has finally pulled funding from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the Obama administration offshored banned gain-of-function research, including projects to make bat covid more transmissible to humans, before a highly evolved, human-infecting bat coronavirus broke out in the same town and killed millions of people worldwide.

The stated reason for the funding halt? The lab failed to provide documents concerning safety and security measures, according to a memo obtained by Bloomberg.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/us-finally-cancels-funding-wuhan-lab

I predicted NO, but I'm slowly increasing my odds thar a lab leak is the cause.
 
uair01 said:
I participate in a prediction on this topic in the Manifold prediction market, so I get a lot of updates from all sides.

This is again from Zerohedge, so handle with care and don't trust everything:


US Finally Cancels Funding To Wuhan Lab
Wednesday, Jul 19, 2023

The US government has finally pulled funding from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the Obama administration offshored banned gain-of-function research, including projects to make bat covid more transmissible to humans, before a highly evolved, human-infecting bat coronavirus broke out in the same town and killed millions of people worldwide.

The stated reason for the funding halt? The lab failed to provide documents concerning safety and security measures, according to a memo obtained by Bloomberg.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/us-finally-cancels-funding-wuhan-lab

I predicted NO, but I'm slowly increasing my odds thar a lab leak is the cause.
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Well, my #1 reason to suspect it? the sheer force of the reaction to the initial suggestion. If you're actually "gathering information" and "assessing the cause", why are you shouting down anyone who disagrees with you?

Some of the news reports were basically "we don't know what it was, but it definitely wasn't that."

Hmm... and you know this because? Oh right, the CCP said so.
 
Oh wow, now quite good evidence for the wet market hypothesis:

"All this evidence tells us the same thing: It points right to this particular market in the middle of Wuhan," said Kristian Andersen a professor in the Department of Immunology and Microbiology at Scripps Research and coauthor of one of the studies. The AP quotes Andersen as saying "I was quite convinced of the lab leak myself until we dove into this very carefully and looked at it much closer."

https://m.slashdot.org/story/402862
 
uair01 said:
Oh wow, now quite good evidence for the wet market hypothesis:

"All this evidence tells us the same thing: It points right to this particular market in the middle of Wuhan," said Kristian Andersen a professor in the Department of Immunology and Microbiology at Scripps Research and coauthor of one of the studies. The AP quotes Andersen as saying "I was quite convinced of the lab leak myself until we dove into this very carefully and looked at it much closer."

https://m.slashdot.org/story/402862
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Ok, but the only link is location. It doesn't rule out accident or intentional leakage. It narrows down the site of contamination.
 
The lab leak suppression story is getting bigger. Now even Nate Silver is talking about it. This might get interesting!

Journalists should be skeptical of all sources —including scientists
A group of prominent scientists spread misinformation about COVID's origins. Mainstream journalists missed the story.

https://natesilver.substack.com/p/journalists-should-be-skeptical-of

And if true this is really unethical behavior by leading scientists:

https://public.substack.com/p/covid-origins-scientist-denounces
 
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Well, that goes with the idea that anything "mainstream" in science is tainted by the fact people push it as fact, without actually verifying it. Looking at how things BECOME mainstream is... interesting.

i'm skeptical of anything anyone gets paid for... and having a salaried position in WHO or some other organization is definitely getting paid...
 
Here is an article pointing to a biological origin. It also has a summary of all controversies.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2305081?query=featured_home

Of the three possibilities — natural, accidental, or deliberate — the most scientific evidence yet identified supports natural emergence. More than half of the earliest Covid-19 cases were connected to the Huanan market, and epidemiologic mapping revealed that the concentration of cases was centered there. In January 2020, Chinese officials cleared the market without testing live animals, but positive environmental samples, including those from an animal cage and a hair-and-feather–removal machine, indicated the presence of both SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-susceptible animals.5 Recently released findings included raccoon dog DNA, pointing to a possible SARS-CoV-2 progenitor. Samples from early cases in humans also contained two different SARS-CoV-2 lineages. Although only one lineage spread globally, the existence of multiple lineages suggests that a SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in animals may have led to multiple spillover events.
 
ramonmercado said:
Injunctions granted against anti-vaxxer.

The mother of a teenager who tragically died by suicide has secured High Court orders restraining Gemma O’Doherty from harassing her.

The orders were granted on Friday evening by Mr Justice Conor Dignam in favour of Edel Campbell, who claims she has been the subject of a campaign of harassment by Ms Doherty after suing the journalist over the alleged unauthorised publication of her late son’s image on media associated with the defendant.

It is alleged that Ms O’Doherty has wrongly and unlawfully used the image of plaintiff’s son Diego Gilsenan (18) in an article linking unexplained deaths to the Covid-19 vaccination. Mr Justice Dignam made orders including ones restraining Ms O’Doherty from harassing the plaintiff, or from publishing images of Ms Campbell or her late son or any personal confidential material about them.

Ms O’Doherty is also restrained from encouraging or inciting others to intimidate the plaintiff.

The court also made orders requiring Ms O’Doherty to take down and remove any image of the plaintiff and her late son from any form of media that she owns or operates. The orders are to remain in place pending the final outcome of Ms Campbell’s action against Ms O’Doherty, trading as “The Irish Light”.

The judge said that, while he was not making any final determination of the claim, he was satisfied to grant the injunction because Ms Campbell had made a strong case that the defendant’s actions towards her “amount to harassment”. ...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland...om-harassing-mother-of-late-teen-1493358.html
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More info about this case.

A grieving mother and her lawyer have been targeted by an extreme campaign of abuse after suing a conspiracy theory newspaper which falsely claimed her son died from a Covid vaccine.

The Irish Light repeatedly abused Edel Campbell online and its supporters have threatened her lawyer with "execution".

Conspiracy theorists worldwide have used dozens of tragic deaths to spread vaccine misinformation. This case is thought to be the first where a relative has sued.

The Irish Light included Ms Campbell's son, Diego Gilsenan, and 41 others in an article last year which suggested the "untested and dangerous" Covid vaccine was to blame for the deaths. In fact, the BBC has been told Diego had taken his own life in August 2021, aged 18, and had not been vaccinated.

The campaign of abuse following her legal case has been "nothing short of shocking" and may explain why other relatives have not taken action, Ms Campbell's solicitor, Ciaran Mulholland, told BBC Radio 4's Marianna in Conspiracyland podcast.

"You can understand why a lot of people were incredibly reluctant to go to a solicitor when they saw the backlash with Edel Campbell," he said.

Ms Campbell told the BBC that the Irish Light has "made my life hell" and said she's now fearful of speaking out.

The BBC has agreed not to use a photo of Ms Campbell - or her son - for this story to protect her.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66424582
 
New tracking poll.

KFF Health Misinformation Tracking Poll Pilot​

Lunna Lopes , Audrey Kearney Follow @audrey__kearney on Twitter , Irving Washington Follow @IrvWashington3 on Twitter , Isabelle Valdes , Hagere Yilma , and Liz Hamel Follow @lizhamel on Twitter
Published: Aug 22, 2023
Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Email Print

Introduction​

While health misinformation and disinformation long preceded the pandemic, the pervasiveness of false and inaccurate information about COVID-19 and vaccines brought into further focus the extent to which misinformation can distort public health policy debates and impact the health choices individuals make. KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor surveys in 2021 and 2022 found that large shares of the public believed or were uncertain about false claims related to COVID vaccines and treatments, including myths about the vaccines’ effects on pregnancy and fertility. These surveys also highlighted the roles of traditional and social media as vehicles for spreading and/or combatting misinformation, showing a strong relationship between individuals’ trusted news sources and their propensity to believe false claims about COVID-19.

KFF has focused on providing reliable, accurate, and non-partisan information to help inform health policy in the United States. Yet, in a time where health-related misinformation is so easily accessible and disseminated, understanding the dynamics of misinformation is important to help ensure a robust and fact-based health policy environment. With this understanding, KFF is designing a new program that will identify and track the rise and prevalence of health-related misinformation in the United States, with a special focus on communities that are most adversely affected by health misinformation.

KFF is releasing our Health Misinformation Tracking Poll Pilot as part of this effort, examining the public’s media use and trust in sources of health information and measuring the reach of specific false and inaccurate claims surrounding three health-related topics: COVID-19 and vaccines, reproductive health, and gun violence. Accompanying this overview report of the pilot poll will be snapshot reports to the field, examining the implications for understanding and combatting misinformation among key groups, including Black adults, Hispanic adults, and rural residents, which KFF will release later this month. Future surveys will explore other health topics for which misinformation has been found to be circulating.

The Misinformation Tracking Poll will work in tandem with our forthcoming Health Misinformation Monitor, a detailed report of the landscape of current health misinformation messages circulating among the public, sent directly to professionals working to combat misinformation. The Misinformation Monitor will be an integral part of KFF’s efforts to deeper analyze the dynamics of misinformation and inform a robust, fact-based health information environment, and will inform the topics we will ask about on future Health Misinformation Tracking Polls.

Key Takeaways for the Field​

Health misinformation is widespread, yet the KFF Health Misinformation Tracking Poll Pilot presents a more nuanced perspective on what information people believe. Beliefs influenced by misinformation are not universally entrenched, and a significant portion of the public falls in the middle, susceptible to false claims, but not already bought in. These individuals hold tentative beliefs that lean towards or against misinformation, providing an opportunity to foster a more fact-based public understanding of health issues and informed dialogue. ...

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/poll-finding/kff-health-misinformation-tracking-poll-pilot/
 
The problem with labellings things as misinformation is it removes the opportunity for valid questions.

For example anyone saying masks didn't work - misinformation. The vaccine not stopping us catching the virus - misinformation.

Sadly both of these pieces of "misinformation" later turned out to be true.
 
Sprite666 said:
The problem with labellings things as misinformation is it removes the opportunity for valid questions.

For example anyone saying masks didn't work - misinformation. The vaccine not stopping us catching the virus - misinformation.

Sadly both of these pieces of "misinformation" later turned out to be true.
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yeah the ministry of truth got rolled out... and wasn't supporting the truth.
 
Sprite666 said:
The problem with labellings things as misinformation is it removes the opportunity for valid questions.

For example anyone saying masks didn't work - misinformation. The vaccine not stopping us catching the virus - misinformation.

Sadly both of these pieces of "misinformation" later turned out to be true.
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I reckon we'll all be going through it again soon. There's rumblings about the next pandemic being on it's way and this virus will be more deadly, more transmissible and will require another round of vaccinations. Project fear rolls ever onwards.
 
Well I won't be getting any new vaccines -
A friend got the vaccine, then went for the 2 boosters. She was fine until the 2nd booster, the person apparently hit a nerve giving her the last booster, and she has had shoulder pain since that day.
And my husband started having ongoing artery and blood clot problems after he had the vaccine and one booster. I can't prove that the vaccine had an effect on him, but the timing is rather suspicious.
And I know that I have written here about asking a few doctors about the vaccine having anything to do with his condition, and the replies are 'no comment' or 'there you go' or similarly vague, which tells me all I need to know. One doctor actually did have negative things to say about it, I detailed it here some months ago.
I am sure many have not been affected by the vaccine, I seem to be fine, but I wouldn't chance it again.
 
uair01 said:
This sounds interesting but no way to verify:

New testimony from a highly credible whistleblower alleges @CIA rewarded six analysts with significant financial incentives to change their COVID-19 origins conclusion from a lab-leak to zoonosis.
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I'm not sure that the origin is even relevant now. The genie is out of the bottle.

We know that pandemics can start from both sources.

It would have been interesting if China had originally followed up with the medical doctors who first reported it in their patients, instead of preventing them from doing anything and then sticking their collective head in the sand until they had to come up for air.

If they had traced and examined those first few people, then perhaps much more could have been done and outcomes would have been different.

But, if wishes were horses, and all that.
 
brownmane said:
I'm not sure that the origin is even relevant now. The genie is out of the bottle.

We know that pandemics can start from both sources.

It would have been interesting if China had originally followed up with the medical doctors who first reported it in their patients, instead of preventing them from doing anything and then sticking their collective head in the sand until they had to come up for air.

If they had traced and examined those first few people, then perhaps much more could have been done and outcomes would have been different.

But, if wishes were horses, and all that.
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The real scandal is what people used it as an excuse to do. and if rumors are true, are planning to do aGAIN
 
Cue the conspiracy theorists...

Nobel Prize goes to scientists behind mRNA Covid vaccines​

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine has been awarded to a pair of scientists that developed the technology that led to the mRNA Covid vaccines.

Dr Katalin Kariko and Dr Drew Weissman will share the prize.

The technology was experimental before the pandemic, but has now been given to millions of people around the world.
The same mRNA technology is now being researched for other diseases and even cancer.

Via BBC News.
 
On Oct 4, the US government will trigger a test of the national emergency system via cell phone texts. I suspect it will be disruptive. It has already launched conspiracy ideas where the call/message will activate ingredients/nanoparticles that were in COVID vaccines.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-fema-test-graphene-oxide-covid-vaccine-517946413392

Aside: My family and I were discussing what would constitute a "national emergency" other than nuclear war. We couldn't really think of one that wouldn't be 1. regional or 2. already obvious and not an emergency. But I suppose another spreading pandemic would qualify.

I can't wait until 2:20 PM on Wednesday to see what happens! :willy::popc:
 
Sharon Hill said:
Aside: My family and I were discussing what would constitute a "national emergency" other than nuclear war. We couldn't really think of one that wouldn't be 1. regional or 2. already obvious and not an emergency. But I suppose another spreading pandemic would qualify.
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Multiple aircraft hijackings.
 
Sharon Hill said:
...Aside: My family and I were discussing what would constitute a "national emergency" other than nuclear war. We couldn't really think of one that wouldn't be 1. regional or 2. already obvious and not an emergency. But I suppose another spreading pandemic would qualify...
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Well, if Yellowstone ever does go poof - I think we could all do with a bit of a heads up.

But, in all seriousness, maybe another Mount St. Helens? I suppose, in a nation as big as the US, even that might have been classed as regional - although I'm pretty sure I've read that the ash cloud traveled over 900 miles, and affected a dozen states.
 
Spookdaddy said:
Well, if Yellowstone ever does go poof - I think we could all do with a bit of a heads up.

But, in all seriousness, maybe another Mount St. Helens? I suppose, in a nation as big as the US, even that might have been classed as regional - although I'm pretty sure I've read that the ash cloud traveled over 900 miles, and affected a dozen states.
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yes, 12 states or so.... not all 50.
 
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