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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

Yithian said:
Multiple aircraft hijackings.
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Not sure what the millions of people alerted could do about that.
Spookdaddy said:
Well, if Yellowstone ever does go poof - I think we could all do with a bit of a heads up.

But, in all seriousness, maybe another Mount St. Helens? I suppose, in a nation as big as the US, even that might have been classed as regional - although I'm pretty sure I've read that the ash cloud traveled over 900 miles, and affected a dozen states.
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Yellowstone will not go poof though. Volcanic eruptions of any size give ample warning. Yellowstone is not a volcano but a volcanic complex. Other natural disasters like earthquakes, hurricanes, and floods are regional; I’m not seeing how people could benefit from a sudden warning. Even a meteor of great size to wipe out a city we would probably see coming. Hmm, maybe a solar flare might be a good example.

But we’re off topic.
 
Is there a conspiracy version of Mad Libs? I feel there should be.
 
Is there any further word from her? I suppose an 'Oh, whoops, sorry, I clearly misunderstood the entire vaccination situation completely' is out of the question?
 
ramonmercado said:
Vids at link.

In an era where medical misinformation and disinformation—especially anti-vaxx ideologies—abound and are expected by some experts to just get worse, it's great that folks like The Real Truther are trying their best to battle the lies.

Their latest video takes on MAGA wellness influencer and anti-vaxxer Brittney Kara's awful attempt at using "science" to explain why she believes vaccines cause autism (and let me be clear, they do NOT—the original study by Andrew Wakefield that claimed to find a causal connection has been thoroughly debunked).

The Real Truther also recently created this excellent line-by-line fact check of Robert Kennedy Jr. spouting lies about vaccines on Fox News. Regarding the Robert Kennedy, Jr. debunking, The Real Truther wrote:



https://boingboing.net/2023/05/30/t...i-vaxx-misinformation-and-disinformation.html
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marhawkman said:
The focus of my post was on the angle of burden of proof. what is the standard for "proof" of a crime here? It can't be as simple as having talked about it. That invites the angle of filing cases with nothing but fake evidence, or worse, people getting baited into a discussion for the purpose of reporting it to entrap them.
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That actually happened to me once.
marhawkman said:
The focus of my post was on the angle of burden of proof. what is the standard for "proof" of a crime here? It can't be as simple as having talked about it. That invites the angle of filing cases with nothing but fake evidence, or worse, people getting baited into a discussion for the purpose of reporting it to entrap them.
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I thought ramondmercado was trying to lure me into discussing politics once, he wasn't, but I thought he was. lol
 
dr wu said:
No one I know in my family nor my friends that I stay in contact with (around 50 people) (Indiana) who had the vaccines ever got sick or died as a result of getting vaccinated. I have also asked others not in my inner circle of people and no one seems to know anyone that did.
Yet there are conspiracies on forums telling of all the people that have died - regular people, atheletes, etc.
Obviously with any vaccine some will have a reaction just like with vaccines in the past but these conspiracy fans are implying far more than statistical issues.
Where is this information/data coming from? Is this simply an anti vaxx conspiracy meme from political sources that are on conspiracy web sites ? And are geographical locations and a specific vaccine the issue here?
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Any experimental vaccine that killed 60,000 people in a 2 year span would be immediately removed/banned. Covid 19 vaccine was not. Not only was it not removed, but they kept on plugging/advertising how beneficial it will be to receive all boosters. It is not true and they knew it.
Pfizer has admitted it lied about its Covid-19 vaccine efficacy before it entered the market. It told the European Parliament it was not tested before general public use. This is raising concerns as many took the vaccine hoping it will protect them. For reaction to this, we're joined by vaccinologist Shabir Madhi.
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transcript available on site.

When I was 12 years old, I witnessed something so corrupt in government that I made a promise to myself then and there that I would never just take the word of anyone, not even my leaders, without being able to get a second or even a third opinion first. It happened again when I was 36 years old and only reaffirmed that I need to watch my own back because no one else is going to.

When the covid vaccine was released, my inner voice was screaming at me not to take the jab. There have been many times when I ignored that inner voice in my past and I would say at least 85% of the time, I regretted it. Not this time.
 
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marhawkman said:
So? I made no claim more substantial that "his wife thought it was the vaccine".

I don't have enough info to make a claim of my own.

And you decided to shout me down with a bunch of whataboutisms that I can't answer because it was not my claim in the first place.
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I feel your frustration, Marhawkman. No one knew and that's the strangest part to me because there was absolutely no proof or study to back up that the vaccine was safe, effective and prevented death and yet most just accepted that claim as truth. I backed up every post I made here and elsewhere. Most other sites believed me or at least went and did more research before deciding. This site and one other shut me down, "with a bunch of whataboutisms" not that I had to stop, but because I got tired of pushing. It's not my job to save the world.
 
michael59 said:
You should be careful, most conspiracies have a way to manifest themselves as truths. :popc: :beer:

That's what I'd say and then I would sit back and enjoy my beer and popcorn as I watched. :)
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While I understand your point, in this case, the likelihood of this particular one coming true is about the same as me using a magic wand to induce resonances in jelly globally to start a tectonic shift to sail our island south to sunnier climes.
 
It's hard to discuss this without being political. I'll try.

The one thing that intrigues me about all this is how Q-adjacent all the conspiracy theories have been. And it's now established that Q Anon crap was literally made up as a joke, on 4Chan (yet people still believe conspiracy theories, even knowing this). I hate-watch a certain YouTube channel to do with a hobby totally not relevant to anything medical - but they were full of wild conspiracy theories around covid, then later, the vaccine. Then, in the very next breath, are disbelieving climate change and attributing any natural disasters related to climate change, to space lasers...

I don't get how people are so gullible that they will (a) believe rubbish and (b) believe it long after it's been debunked and (c) believe it even when they hear it in the context of other stuff that's blatant BS. My view throughout all this was I'd believe actual scientists and medics before I'd believe struck off nurses with grudges on YT. Several years on, still feel the same way.

Also am now disabled, presumably for life, with Long Covid and I know the effects of that are as, or more, devastating than the risk of vaccine side effects. Interestingly, some people with LC report improvement in the condition post vacc.

Years ago, I did a post grad course on Research Techniques and became aware that a lot of drugs passed by the relevant authorities in both the US and the UK, have been tested on pathetically small groups of people, btw. Some of the drugs now commonly used for things like ADHD had test samples as low as... 6 people. Sometimes, research is paid for by those who'd most benefit from it, too. It's always been the way. Drugs still in use today that were passed as "safe" after very small sample sizes, or cursory tests, decades ago. I volunteered for covid vaccs trials and followed them in real time - didn't get on a trial because of my LC but I continued to get some info about it and felt it was done quickly but with all due diligence, in the circs.

We did a piece for a certain online newspaper about the history of vaccine-deniers and it was great stuff. Nothing new under the sun. People happily drinking their own pee and getting fined for refusing to send their kids to be vaccinated in the 19thC, even in rare cases, going to prison. Some real die hards who got sucked into sub-cultures that were vaccine denying, right throughout the 19thc. Nothing new under the sun, etc.

Has this month's Rapture happened yet?
 
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Ghost In The Machine said:
We did a piece for a certain online newspaper about the history of vaccine-deniers and it was great stuff. Nothing new under the sun. People happily drinking their own pee and getting fined for refusing to send their kids to be vaccinated in the 19thC, even in rare cases, going to prison. Some real die hards who got sucked into sub-cultures that were vaccine denying, right throughout the 19thc. Nothing new under the sun, etc.
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Yep, been around for a long time.

Victorian Britain had its own anti-vaxxers—and they helped bring down a government​


As the 1906 UK general election results rolled in, it became clear that the Conservative party, after 11 years in power, had suffered one of the most disastrous defeats in its history. Of 402 Conservative MPs, 251 lost their seats, including their candidate for prime minister, defeated on a 22.5% swing against him in the constituency he had held for two decades.

Rising food prices, unpopular taxes and an opposition that promised to spend heavily on an expanded welfare state all contributed to the Tory downfall that year. But something else had tipped the opposition Liberal landslide over the edge—compulsory vaccination.

Anti-vaccination campaigner Arnold Lupton had taken Sleaford in Lincolnshire for the Liberals on a 12% swing and immediately started his parliamentary campaign to abolish compulsory vaccination against smallpox, a public health policy that had been in place in England and Wales since 1853 (with Scottish and Irish legislation following suit in later years).

Hardly a single Conservative MP was an anti-vaccinator, but 174 of the 397 Liberal MPs in the new parliament signed Lupton's petition.
Their attempt at changing the law was unsuccessful, but this flexing of parliamentary muscle by the anti-vaccinators persuaded the new Liberal government that the most expedient option was to reach a compromise with its backbench rebels.

In 1907, the law was changed to permit quick and easy opt-out by parents. Vaccination of all babies against smallpox remained theoretically compulsory until 1946, but in practice, it was now optional. A five-decade-long campaign, in the streets, the courts and finally parliament, had resulted in victory for the opponents of vaccination.

This is a sobering story for those of us who are researchers, medical professionals or public health activists campaigning against the spread of vaccine hesitancy in the modern world.

The success of vaccination in saving millions of lives, not just from smallpox but a host of other diseases, seems so obvious that the case scarcely needs to be made. And yet it does, as just a cursory glance at social, even at times mainstream, media will reveal. ...

https://phys.org/news/2023-12-victorian-britain-anti-vaxxersand.html
 
Last Sunday we went to eldest's for her birthday. later that night we got a text to say granddaughter's boyfriend had come down with covid. Since then granddaughter and youngest also have it. we are all waiting to see if anyone else gets it and whether Christmas will go ahead.
 
Not my church, but I heard about another church congregation struggling with covid.

Covid has not gone away and the vaccination rate, according to TV news, is poor in our area for flu and covid both.

Also, the flu seems to be bad lately in our area.
 
Iris said:
Last Sunday we went to eldest's for her birthday. later that night we got a text to say granddaughter's boyfriend had come down with covid. Since then granddaughter and youngest also have it. we are all waiting to see if anyone else gets it and whether Christmas will go ahead.
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Mine took about 6 days to test negative so I suppose you should maybe base calculations on that. Have you got access to cheap testing kits over there? They’re available at the chemists here in the uk for about £1.50.
 
Covid testing kits are sold in pharmacies, a little on the expensive side, in the U.S.

But every so often the U.S. government will send you free testing kits just by asking.

I don’t know how many apply for the free government kits as the government only announces the free kits only for a day or so.
 
ramonmercado said:
Yep, been around for a long time.

Victorian Britain had its own anti-vaxxers—and they helped bring down a government​


As the 1906 UK general election results rolled in, it became clear that the Conservative party, after 11 years in power, had suffered one of the most disastrous defeats in its history. Of 402 Conservative MPs, 251 lost their seats, including their candidate for prime minister, defeated on a 22.5% swing against him in the constituency he had held for two decades.

Rising food prices, unpopular taxes and an opposition that promised to spend heavily on an expanded welfare state all contributed to the Tory downfall that year. But something else had tipped the opposition Liberal landslide over the edge—compulsory vaccination.

Anti-vaccination campaigner Arnold Lupton had taken Sleaford in Lincolnshire for the Liberals on a 12% swing and immediately started his parliamentary campaign to abolish compulsory vaccination against smallpox, a public health policy that had been in place in England and Wales since 1853 (with Scottish and Irish legislation following suit in later years).

Hardly a single Conservative MP was an anti-vaccinator, but 174 of the 397 Liberal MPs in the new parliament signed Lupton's petition.
Their attempt at changing the law was unsuccessful, but this flexing of parliamentary muscle by the anti-vaccinators persuaded the new Liberal government that the most expedient option was to reach a compromise with its backbench rebels.

In 1907, the law was changed to permit quick and easy opt-out by parents. Vaccination of all babies against smallpox remained theoretically compulsory until 1946, but in practice, it was now optional. A five-decade-long campaign, in the streets, the courts and finally parliament, had resulted in victory for the opponents of vaccination.

This is a sobering story for those of us who are researchers, medical professionals or public health activists campaigning against the spread of vaccine hesitancy in the modern world.

The success of vaccination in saving millions of lives, not just from smallpox but a host of other diseases, seems so obvious that the case scarcely needs to be made. And yet it does, as just a cursory glance at social, even at times mainstream, media will reveal. ...

https://phys.org/news/2023-12-victorian-britain-anti-vaxxersand.html
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Ah, yes, "anti-vaxxers".... Enh, reality is it's not just a yes/no. My first exposure to the concept as a child was talking to my aunt who... had spent decades as a medical health professional. Her take? there are multiple legit reasons to NOT simply "jab everyone".

Old live virus vaccines could actually cause outbreaks if used improperly. (which is why you rarely see those today)

Most/all vaccines will temporarily weaken your immune system while the vaccine is being reacted to, and thus make you more prone to actually getting a real disease for a few days. this seems like a minor inconvenience, but... how often are you getting vaxxed?

Then we get to the juicy stuff. Some vaxxes are actually worthless. Preventative vaccination only works for the strains you were vaxxed against. Some viruses mutate like crazy. Those are near impossible to actually vax against. Which is why yearly flue shots are so ineffective. the vax is for the strains most common LAST year. Flus mutate way too fast. COVID-19 does too. that's why people created booster vaccines for multiple variant strains. Also, high odds you got exposed BEFORE getting the jab.

At any rate my aunt's take is not actually "anti-vax". She doesn't oppose all vaxs. It's actually that she thinks the FDA is hopelessly corrupt and functions as "self-regulation" for the Pharma companies. Which means that big pharma can get away with pushing treatments that waste millions with functional impunity. Some of it's mostly harmless, but a waste of money, like yearly flu vax. One can argue that it helps, but how much benefit do you actually get? Very little is gained by immunization to the wrong disease.

But it's about what the vax is FOR. Some vaxs are something that actually does make you functionally immune to that disease for life. Some of these diseases will cripple you for life if you do contract them. But the C-19 vax is neither of those. It's not even a vax in the traditional sense.
 
michael59 said:
I feel your frustration, Marhawkman. No one knew and that's the strangest part to me because there was absolutely no proof or study to back up that the vaccine was safe, effective and prevented death and yet most just accepted that claim as truth. I backed up every post I made here and elsewhere. Most other sites believed me or at least went and did more research before deciding. This site and one other shut me down, "with a bunch of whataboutisms" not that I had to stop, but because I got tired of pushing. It's not my job to save the world.
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This is the core of my objection to the C-19 vax mandates. It's an experimental treatment, that has been tested before... and found to NOT work in all previous cases. But now it's finally working and definitely safe for mass-implementation world wide? Where are these case studies again?
 
marhawkman said:
But it's about what the vax is FOR. Some vaxs are something that actually does make you functionally immune to that disease for life. Some of these diseases will cripple you for life if you do contract them. But the C-19 vax is neither of those. It's not even a vax in the traditional sense.
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Just curious, what is a vaccine "in the traditional" sense?
 
ramonmercado said:
Yep, been around for a long time.

Victorian Britain had its own anti-vaxxers—and they helped bring down a government​


As the 1906 UK general election results rolled in, it became clear that the Conservative party, after 11 years in power, had suffered one of the most disastrous defeats in its history. Of 402 Conservative MPs, 251 lost their seats, including their candidate for prime minister, defeated on a 22.5% swing against him in the constituency he had held for two decades.

Rising food prices, unpopular taxes and an opposition that promised to spend heavily on an expanded welfare state all contributed to the Tory downfall that year. But something else had tipped the opposition Liberal landslide over the edge—compulsory vaccination.

Anti-vaccination campaigner Arnold Lupton had taken Sleaford in Lincolnshire for the Liberals on a 12% swing and immediately started his parliamentary campaign to abolish compulsory vaccination against smallpox, a public health policy that had been in place in England and Wales since 1853 (with Scottish and Irish legislation following suit in later years).

Hardly a single Conservative MP was an anti-vaccinator, but 174 of the 397 Liberal MPs in the new parliament signed Lupton's petition.
Their attempt at changing the law was unsuccessful, but this flexing of parliamentary muscle by the anti-vaccinators persuaded the new Liberal government that the most expedient option was to reach a compromise with its backbench rebels.

In 1907, the law was changed to permit quick and easy opt-out by parents. Vaccination of all babies against smallpox remained theoretically compulsory until 1946, but in practice, it was now optional. A five-decade-long campaign, in the streets, the courts and finally parliament, had resulted in victory for the opponents of vaccination.

This is a sobering story for those of us who are researchers, medical professionals or public health activists campaigning against the spread of vaccine hesitancy in the modern world.

The success of vaccination in saving millions of lives, not just from smallpox but a host of other diseases, seems so obvious that the case scarcely needs to be made. And yet it does, as just a cursory glance at social, even at times mainstream, media will reveal. ...

https://phys.org/news/2023-12-victorian-britain-anti-vaxxersand.html
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Wow. Deja vu! Fascinating - thanks for posting.

One thing I spotted was, in the accounts of court cases where parents were taken to court for refusing to vaccinate their kids, courts seemed reluctant to impose custodial sentences and usually the fines seemed fairly cursory, IIRC. There were, after a while, anti. vaxx groups who'd fundraise to pay off fines, as well.

Anti vaxx rhetoric and ideas were remarkably similar to those we've seen from around 2021 and since - I suppose the idea of public health is an outrage to some. There was this concept of bodily sovereignty and that pro vaxxers were "despotic". And anti-vaxx arguments from the past were remarkably similar to modern ones, eg:

“….. Dr Dupré said… Vaccination was a piece of quackery and delusion… the rarity of smallpox at the present time was not due to vaccination, but to improved sanitary laws… he was convinced vaccination produced smallpox…”
[Manchester Times, 10/7/1869].

Victorian anti-vaxx sub cultures also advocated alternate health theories (current anti vaxxers are big on drinking pee, apparently...) And some great anecdata. Here's one from a letter to the editor:

“'I must tell you of a case which just occurred in Brittany. My cousin the Countess d’Harcourt, just died of the black smallpox in 48 hours, and she had been re-vaccinated about a year ago… ' J.H. Longstaffe, May 1th, 1871.”
 
brownmane said:
Just curious, what is a vaccine "in the traditional" sense?
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pieces of the actual virus. IE it causes an immune reaction by exposing your immune system to a foreign body. The old smallpox thing was to take cow-pox virus and expose people to the actual live virus and intentionally infect them. Why? because cow-pox wasn't a serious illness, and those who had recovered from cow-pox had a natural immunity to small-pox since the two viruses, despite differing greatly in deadliness, had similar proteins in the virus shell.

Many diseases are too deadly to deliberately expose people to it directly, but a "killed" version of the virus is usable as a vaccine. Your body has an immune reaction much the same as the full disease, but the stuff you're exposed to isn't a viable disease.

C-19 jab.... is none of those. It attempts to induce an immune rection by causing your body's cells to create virus shell proteins. It's a "harmless" virus that's supposed to have a beneficial effect.... assuming it works right. Does your immune system kill it before it does anything, do the infected cells get purged? Do the virus proteins actually get ejected from your cells?

Yeah we have a few studies of how it's gone horribly wrong in the past.
 
marhawkman said:
Yeah we have a few studies of how it's gone horribly wrong in the past.
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Mrna vaccines are nothing new. Past studies and tests, mainly with animals, were usually stopped because the results were a disaster.

The covid vaccine obviously doesn't work. There even are members on this forum who have had all the boosters, etc, and still they have come down with covid several times. It began with just the one shot to solve the so called pandemic and it was touted for the way to get life back to normal. Then it was two shots that were needed, then the boosters which are simply just another shot of the same vaccine and then another booster and so on and still covid is rife.

It doesn't take much working out.

Then there are the incredible numbers of deaths and vaccine injured. On alternative media and video platforms there are just so many horror stories and it's the sheer numbers that are mind boggling. We now have footballers and athletes having heart attacks and strokes in numbers like never before. The there's babies, kids and teenagers sometimes dropping down dead. We now have what many oncologists are calling turbo cancers that can kill in weeks. I watched one oncologist detailing about how he's seeing children with certain types of cancers that he had never seen in children before and again, the numbers are increasing monthly. Heart attacks and stroke numbers are going through the roof.

The mainstream media no longer reports the news. There is so much going on in the world that isn't reported on like the slow motion train crash that is the banking system and that the petro dollar's value is at crashing and is being ditched by countries world wide for trading with in favour of the (new) Brics system where countries trade between themselves using what ever they want as currency. There's been virtually no mention in the media and what little I have read has been distorted or is down right lies.

Add to all the above the blatant censorship of platforms like youtube and twitter making sure of no debate or discussion even when backed with hard evidence. Any doctor or nurse who didn't tow the line was struck off. There was also many many calls by top scientists, doctors, etc, and many many open letters sent to parliaments, newspapers and so on, sometimes signed by hundreds of top professionals in their field that never saw the light of day. Joe Public were only ever given the one side of the story after being pumped full of fear and terror.

The evidence of what these vaccines are and what they do is all around us. Bill Gates has also said openly that the population numbers will be reduced by birth control and vaccines and yet the masses still don't hear it.

I could post link after link after link but I've learnt that most won't watch or read it and most that do just don't believe it despite the evidence so I now have stopped bothering. My view is that if someone wants to be injected with an untried and and untested experimental vaccine, go right ahead. Even the official tittle for the vaccine was something like 'the experimental novel virus sars covid 2 vaccine' and it was even touted as 'an experimental vaccine' with the trials carrying on until Oct 2023. In other words the untested and experimental vaccine trial was being carried out on people world wide.

I just wish Joe Public would start to question everything instead of just trusting in the 'they'd never do that as there's rules and laws and democracy'. Also I wish the masses would simply turn off the tv and throw it away, refuse to listen to politicians of any persuasion and never buy or read any newspaper and do their own research avoiding all the afford mentioned.

Sorry for the long posting. I'll never comment on Covid or the vaccines again. It's a waste of time.
 
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