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Phantom Hitchhikers & Road Ghosts

Driving back towards home today, I started pondering on they whys and wherefores of road ghosts.

About three miles from my house is the site of an horrific road accident, nearly twenty years ago now, when a young girl was run over and killed whilst crossing a main road doing her paper round. It was late November, very dark and she was hit in the middle of the road. Now, as far as I know, there have been no sightings originating from that awful accident, maybe it's still too recent? Is it too memorable for those of us who still live around here? Or would there be something about the accident that would preclude the origins of ghosts?

I suppose my question is something along the lines of - why are some houses haunted, while those with equally tragic histories aren't? Why are there no 'spooky tales' about this stretch of road? Not even, as far as I am aware, tales of creepy feelings.
Great post.

I do sometimes wonder if it is us humans who decide a ghost is a certain dead person based on our own knowledge of previous happenings. How often has the ghost ever identified themselves? What I am getting at here is can we be certain the 'ghost' is the manifestation of so-and-so killed in the accident and isn't a time-slip or yet another 'Cosmic Trickster' variation on UFOs, Black Shuck etc at that location...? In this scenario battlefield and Roman soldier ghosts et al. are time-slips from the past experienced by present-day witnesses.
 
This is absolutely a factor, at least in terms of the 'folkloric' dimension of ghosts.

Near where I grew up, within about a quarter of a mile or so, was an old mansion. It was first built in the 1600s and after decades of standing empty was eventually demolished just before I was born.

Now, growing up, the main thing associated in the community with this 'memory' of a building was a ghost story. The ghost was supposed to be that of a 19th century suicide, usually said to be a young woman. This version of the story goes back to the mid 20th century at least.

However, going back to the late 19th century, I found a quite different version mentioned by a local historian of the era and said to have been current in the area at that time. Here, the ghost - the same ghost, essentially - was said to have been that of a named owner of the house who occupied it in the 1750s, an elderly widow who was said to have killed themselves in a particular room.

Even more remarkably, as the historian pointed out, this version was also quite wrong in that the woman it referred to actually died somewhere else of quite natural causes. My feeling is that there might have been a substrate of an even earlier tale about an actual suicide, and I even had a couple of candidates among early 18th century occupants of the building, but was never able to quite prove it.

The point was that the 'ghost' really served to keep alive the memory of a specific event, but nevertheless changed over the generations. And though quite a few locally important people had lived in the house - people who you think would have been commemorated in stories of one kind or another - the ghost was the one thing everyone remembered.
 
Now, as far as I know, there have been no sightings originating from that awful accident, maybe it's still too recent? Is it too memorable for those of us who still live around here? Or would there be something about the accident that would preclude the origins of ghosts?

On this point I think, yes, it's probably too memorable or too recent; a 'ghost story' probably appears when the details of the original incident start to slip out of collective memory. In an era when most local news was spread by word of mouth this probably happened a lot more quickly than it does now.

Having said that, it's surprising how long a shocking event can keep its immediacy in local memory. Going back to my 1980s childhood again, I remember being told about a murder that had happened locally and imagining that it had taken place just a few years earlier, from the way the story was told. Much later I found out that it had actually happened during WWII.
 
Maybe to the adults around you who told the story it seemed recent. Being older now myself I can understand how 20-25 years previous to "now" can feel deceptively recent.
Yup, it's living memory. When people are still alive to tell the story.
My late maternal grandmother, born 1908, would tell us kids about tales about her grandfather, who lived 1830-1929. To me he's only just out of living memory.
 
On this point I think, yes, it's probably too memorable or too recent; a 'ghost story' probably appears when the details of the original incident start to slip out of collective memory. In an era when most local news was spread by word of mouth this probably happened a lot more quickly than it does now.

Having said that, it's surprising how long a shocking event can keep its immediacy in local memory. Going back to my 1980s childhood again, I remember being told about a murder that had happened locally and imagining that it had taken place just a few years earlier, from the way the story was told. Much later I found out that it had actually happened during WWII.
Not on the road itself, but a couple of metres from the A19 there is a local ghost story about a man who died (I think) in the last 20 years or so. He used to take care of the village churchyard - which fronts onto this fairly major road. And has been seen in recent years several times - and it was his daughter that identified the ghost, after someone described it - he was seen looking like he's "gardening" IIRC in this churchyard. If you lean on the wall, you can see his gravestone.
 
Yup, it's living memory. When people are still alive to tell the story.
My late maternal grandmother, born 1908, would tell us kids about tales about her grandfather, who lived 1830-1929. To me he's only just out of living memory.
My dad's cousins were a generation younger than him so - my age. (Their dad married and had kids late in life. Whereas his brother, my grandad, had dad in his early 20s). And I found it fascinating when dad's cousin sent me family photos I'd never seen - all Edwardian era - of her grandad (my great grandad) as she's the same age as me but there are her grandparents, in straw boaters and my great grandma in full Edwardian dress - but for my second cousin, those long lost Edwardians who died in the 1930s long before we were both born, are her grandma and grandad... I think she's about exactly my age. Til we made contact with eachother, I'd only had one photo of my great grandparents - she had some great ones, now all copied and sent to me.

My mum was born in the 1920s and used to talk of "uncles" who were in the 1830s' cholera pit (mass grave) behind Selby Abbey. My mum died in the early 1970s. In recent years, I did genealogy, and was curious to see what the truth was. In fact there were direct line ancestors at the right date in Selby - but no-one died of cholera. However, in this parish where I now live, not far away, there is a grave with 11 bodies in - people who died in an accident on the river here in 1833. I'm related to several of them by marriage and my great uncle x 3 was one of the three survivors. In 1833, it was a national story in the newspapers. Over the years I'm guessing that story had been distorted to a few miles down the road, shifted a year or so earlier and was re-located in a cholera pit. Rather than a survivor of an incident who wasn't in the mass grave, it had been remembered as a victim who was ina. different mass grave just a few miles away.

Perfect illustration of how a story distorts, over time. There were elements of truth in it but wrong catastrophe, wrong location, and our relative survived, wasn't in the mass grave. Still impressive to think some of the story had survived from 1833 to the 1930s when my mum will have heard it, as a child.

When we moved here, the first thing I spotted in that churchyard was the big gravestone for the 11 drowning victims and when I first saw it from a distance, assumed it was a factory accident or similar. It was a few years later that I discovered I had a connection to it but was drawn to researching it and so knew the details of the 1833 accident a few years before I realised, when finding my great grandmother x 4's surname one day, my relative had been one of the three survivors. His evidence was the most comprehensive given at the inquest because the other two survivors were still too traumatised/ill to give evidence so I'd been reading my great uncle x 3's words at the inquest without realising he was my relative...

ETA" My great uncle x 3 lived to be a very old man. As did both the other survivors. The other two are now buried in the village churchyard, near the shared grave of the 11 who died that night. My great uncle ended up also in a public grave - but in York, where he died in the workhouse, in his 80s. He is the only one of the 14 in the river that night, to never make it home to this parish, in the end. (When I moved here, had no idea my mum's ancestors had lived here for over 200 years).
 
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Why is it that all old houses are haunted by a grey lady who is supposed to be a servant who got pregnant out of wedlock and killed herself from shame? Nearly always drowning herself in the nearest large body of water?

Is it just a folk memory of the shame felt by single mothers? Or a memory of the way that Lords of the Manor often behaved towards their staff?
 
Why is it that all old houses are haunted by a grey lady who is supposed to be a servant who got pregnant out of wedlock and killed herself from shame? Nearly always drowning herself in the nearest large body of water?

Is it just a folk memory of the shame felt by single mothers? Or a memory of the way that Lords of the Manor often behaved towards their staff?

That's probably exactly it, actually. Obviously all ghost stories are 'about' death, but there's usually some additional aspect of transgression or shame which the story seems to commemorate. Suicide was a criminal transgression centuries ago; having children out of wedlock a serious moral failure. It's not really surprising so many ghost stories involve these motifs.

The other thing is that I guess as time goes on, and they get told and retold, then more specifically local ghost stories might get 'overwritten' by more conventional versions, like the example from my childhood. Or maybe the original story gets transplanted to other locales as people move about. Perhaps that's why half the ponds in East Anglia have a legend of a phantom coach that careers into them and disappears.
 
Two local "road ghosts" from where I live are surely just the result of people talking bollocks to one another/ telling stories for a laugh.

We had an "eight-foot drummer boy" on the marsh roads nearby- and as teenagers, we would pile into my friend's mini and drive around them at night (especially when foggy) in an attempt to scare each other silly.

The other that springs to mind was "the headless punk", victim of a car accident if memory serves, who would run into the road if you drove down the back of the park at night. I used to close my eyes tight when coming home in my uncle's car, if he went that way. The other night I was travelling down the back of the park with my wife and I mentioned to her that ten year old me would never have believed I was so brave!
 
Been thinking about this a lot. The vast majority of time-slip accounts are the experiencer going back in time. If they are seen by another person whilst in the past then that person reacts with horror/fear - just as most of us react when seeing a ghost. But if the ghosts we see in our 'timeline' are in fact momentary time-slips from the past then why do they 'slip' forwards whereas we invariably 'slip' backwards?
 
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been thinking about this a lot. The vast majority of time-slip accounts are the experiencer going back in time. If they are seen by another person whilst in the past then that person reacts with horror/fear - just as most of us react when seeing a ghost. But if the ghosts we see in our 'timeline' are in fact momentary time-slips from the past then why do they 'slip' forwards whereas we invariably 'slip' backwards?
This is why I'm more inclined to believe in actual dimension shifts rather than time shifts.
 
Not read of this one before:

Giant Grey Man​


Location: Garve (Highland) - A835 to Ullapool
Type: Other
Date / Time: November 2002
Further Comments: A driver and his passenger both spotted what they thought to be a large grey boulder on the roadside. The boulder suddenly unfurled to form a tall grey man-shaped creature, between eight and ten feet (2.4 - 3 metres) tall. The figure seemed to be clothed but no facial features could be seen. The sighting only lasted for one or two seconds as the car drove past, and the driver travelled home as fast as possible,

https://www.paranormaldatabase.com/recent/index.php
Interesting that in Danny Robin's new 'Into the Uncanny' there is a witness who describes something an encounter with something very similar to this boulder-to-humanoid creature.
 
Mum and daughter terrified as they spot disappearing 'ghost car' while driving down road

‘It's this one stretch of road, a boring stretch of road, and you think ‘Why are there so many things that happen there?’". Dr Gandy is now looking for witnesses to South Wirral's answer to the Ruskington Horror as he hopes to collate and analyse the experiences.

He would like to stress that neither of the events he describes above are near to the memorial tree which marks the scene of a tragic accident in 2017. Each of the experiences described were on different parts of the road. He added: "I’m a statistician by trade, and I believe in data. I take it that if you don’t record these sorts of things, they just evaporate over the years into the ether."

Dr Gandy can be contacted by email at [email protected], and asks that witnesses provide their name and contact details in case of any queries. Alternatively, they can phone him on 0151 334 9248. All responses are treated in complete confidence.’
 
Possible ghost / phantom car in Merseyside:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/white-sheet-mum-vows-never-27836009

edit: Same incidents a @Fanari_Lloyd 's post above? Otterpool isn't really the Wirral, so I didn't twig.

Details in the Mirror are nonexistent, but a look at the 1961 1”/ mile OS map suggests a possible source of ghostly manifestations:

IMG_1431.png


Eastham upper left; Overpool lower right; RAF Hooton Park circled

maximus otter
 
A conversation with the hairdresser today became a talk about ‘experiences’.

I happened to mention my partner hearing a knocking on the bathroom door when we were away recently and she said she had had experiences all her life but only talked about it to a couple of friends as people tended to pooh-pooh it, including her husband.

She said the most frightening thing was about a year ago when she was driving home. It was quite late and her kids were in the back of the car.
She lives in a new build estate near the Great Western Hospital and had driven past the hospital entrance down toward the Coate Water Roundabout. It was dark and there were no cars close behind her or in front.

She said that a man stepped out from the side of the road and straight in front of her car. She saw him first out of the corner of her eye and then he moved so quickly there was no way of avoiding him.

She slammed on the brakes and said her first thought was horror that she had killed someone. Recounting it, it was clear she was reliving the shock. (Oh my god, I’ve killed some-one, I’m going to prison, and what about the children?)

She got out of the car, calling her husband and almost crying to him that she’d hit someone and also wondering if the man had stepped out in front of her deliberately.

And there was no-one and nothing there.

Her husband asked her if she’d been drinking (of course not). Then he said she couldn’t have hit anyone, and did she actually feel the
car collide with the man. And she said she realised she hadn’t, and there had been no sound of a bang.

Her kids had seen nothing at all and after making sure that there definitely was no sign of an injured person she carried on home which was only a few minutes away. She said her adrenaline was through the roof, more at the initial belief she had killed someone and then the relief of knowing that she hadn’t rather than the fact she might have seen a ghost.

As far as I know, there was no report of anyone being struck by a car on that road around that time.

I asked her whereabouts on the road it was and she said near the bus stop. There are two along there, but the second is beyond the new builds and near the Sun inn, so she must have meant the first one.

I think that area was simply fields before it was built on as I remember there being objections to building there some years ago.

She said she saw the man quite clearly and described him as tall, fair-haired, wearing a white and pale jacket and black trousers. So, modern enough clothes.
She doesn’t have a dash cam and wished she did as it might have picked up something.

New build estate is on the left of the map, and the area where the bus stop is marked by red. The man stepped out from the left hand side.
 

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A conversation with the hairdresser today became a talk about ‘experiences’.

I happened to mention my partner hearing a knocking on the bathroom door when we were away recently and she said she had had experiences all her life but only talked about it to a couple of friends as people tended to pooh-pooh it, including her husband.

She said the most frightening thing was about a year ago when she was driving home. It was quite late and her kids were in the back of the car.
She lives in a new build estate near the Great Western Hospital and had driven past the hospital entrance down toward the Coate Water Roundabout. It was dark and there were no cars close behind her or in front.

She said that a man stepped out from the side of the road and straight in front of her car. She saw him first out of the corner of her eye and then he moved so quickly there was no way of avoiding him.

She slammed on the brakes and said her first thought was horror that she had killed someone. Recounting it, it was clear she was reliving the shock. (Oh my god, I’ve killed some-one, I’m going to prison, and what about the children?)

She got out of the car, calling her husband and almost crying to him that she’d hit someone and also wondering if the man had stepped out in front of her deliberately.

And there was no-one and nothing there.

Her husband asked her if she’d been drinking (of course not). Then he said she couldn’t have hit anyone, and did she actually feel the
car collide with the man. And she said she realised she hadn’t, and there had been no sound of a bang.

Her kids had seen nothing at all and after making sure that there definitely was no sign of an injured person she carried on home which was only a few minutes away. She said her adrenaline was through the roof, more at the initial belief she had killed someone and then the relief of knowing that she hadn’t rather than the fact she might have seen a ghost.

As far as I know, there was no report of anyone being struck by a car on that road around that time.

I asked her whereabouts on the road it was and she said near the bus stop. There are two along there, but the second is beyond the new builds and near the Sun inn, so she must have meant the first one.

I think that area was simply fields before it was built on as I remember there being objections to building there some years ago.

She said she saw the man quite clearly and described him as tall, fair-haired, wearing a white and pale jacket and black trousers. So, modern enough clothes.
She doesn’t have a dash cam and wished she did as it might have picked up something.

New build estate is on the left of the map, and the area where the bus stop is marked by red. The man stepped out from the left hand side.
Fabulous. :cool:
 
@escargot I’ve had this same hairdresser for about 18 months and never realised she was interested in this kind of thing. She always seemed very down to earth, talked about her kids, her cats, she was planning her summer wedding, etc. Usual kind of social chit-chat.
She said she was really glad to be able to talk to someone who wasn’t going to just be dismissive, so more stories to come, I hope!
 
@escargot I’ve had this same hairdresser for about 18 months and never realised she was interested in this kind of thing. She always seemed very down to earth, talked about her kids, her cats, she was planning her summer wedding, etc. Usual kind of social chit-chat.
She said she was really glad to be able to talk to someone who wasn’t going to just be dismissive, so more stories to come, I hope!
Must be loads of people that don’t say anything for the same reason
I thought the aforementioned neighbour (Major) of mine mentioned in another thread, would never in a million years have believed in ghosts, let alone have lived in a haunted house (and got one in his cellar now).

If I hadn't happened to mention MrsF's sighting last week, I doubt he'd have ever said anything about it to me.
 
@escargot I’ve had this same hairdresser for about 18 months and never realised she was interested in this kind of thing. She always seemed very down to earth, talked about her kids, her cats, she was planning her summer wedding, etc. Usual kind of social chit-chat.
She said she was really glad to be able to talk to someone who wasn’t going to just be dismissive, so more stories to come, I hope!
I went to a hairdresser who spontaneously told me all about the cutlery-stealing ghost at the house she shared. :)
 
... at the house she shared. Hmmmm.

It was a house share with several hardworking young women who weren't apt to play silly jokes on each other.

They'd notice the forks missing and blame each other at first until they realised that even when all the cutlery was washed up and put away, next time they looked there'd be fewer forks.

They decided to buy more when necessary and stop worrying about it.
 
They decided to buy more when necessary and stop worrying about it.
I think people can be pretty pragmatic, especially when they’ve got more important things to worry about than something that’s ‘odd’ but not scary. Doubly if you’re working hard and really can’t be bothered to go into the ‘mystery’ of it.

The hairdresser accepts that she’s always been able to see things even in her new build, and just gets on with life as she’s got a family, two jobs and is a busy working mum, but the man on the road really shook her up because she didn’t think ‘ghost’ at all, not initially; she was just terrified she’d killed someone or that he’d wanted to commit suicide.

@RaM Yes, she said she used to occasionally mention things but stopped when people scoffed and said things like her husband (‘Have/Had you been drinking?’ etc, etc). She does have the Ghost Hunt friend but other than that, never really talks about it at all. She also would like ‘proof’, i.e. the wish for a dash cam.

It’s usually the way that people have related something to me: by my mentioning an experience since I never care if people go ‘Hur, hur, hur, were you drunk?’ Doesn’t bother me at all.
Quite often, the reply will be along the lines of ‘I don’t believe in that sort of thing, but there was that one time…’
 
It was a house share with several hardworking young women who weren't apt to play silly jokes on each other.

They'd notice the forks missing and blame each other at first until they realised that even when all the cutlery was washed up and put away, next time they looked there'd be fewer forks.

They decided to buy more when necessary and stop worrying about it.
<dashes off to check the fork cupboard>
 
I was just looking through my local ghost books on Oxfordshire when I came across this from Oxfordshire Stories of the Supernatural by Betty Puttick, Countryside Books, 2003, pp. 11-12:

Some [phantom hitchhiker] accounts are linked to a fatal accident which once happened at the site, and are associated with the victim, but there appears to be no such incident to explain the young girl's apparition that has sometimes been seen at the roadside near Asthall Manor. Her clothes and appearance suggest that she is a gypsy and in recent times, in the mid-1990s, drivers who have given her a lift all have a similar tale to tell.

It was an evening in October when a driver noticed a figure by the side of the road. She had dark shoulder length hair, olive skin and a gypsy-like appearance, and she had moved into the middle of the road, waving him to stop. He drew up and asked her what was the matter. She made no reply but walked round to the passenger door, which he opened, and got into the car. It had been raining, but the girl was more than just damp, she was completely soaking wet, her hair dripping down over her face as if she had been in the river. The driver said she must get home as soon as possible or she would catch pneumonia but she made no reply, simply pointing ahead. He was conscious of an overwhelming feeling of anxiety at the strangeness of the situation, when suddenly the girl spoke for the first time. 'It's too late, he's gone, ' she said, and at that she disappeared.

The driver arrived home feeling shaken by his unlikely experience, but it was some time before he could tell anyone about it.

It was also wet on an afternoon in March when a woman set off from Burford to pick up her son from school. She had just passed Asthall Manor when she noticed a young gypsy girl in the road waving her to stop. As she drew up she could see that the gypsy was soaking wet, and before she could speak the girl said, 'You got my message then?' She walked round to the passenger side of the car, and when the driver asked, 'What message? Where do you want to go?' the gypsy simply stared silently back at her with an agonised expression. Then suddenly she said, 'The water, the river - he's gone,' and without another word she disappeared, leaving just a wet car seat and a pool of water on the floor where she had been.

The driver continued on her journey, bemused by this experience, and like the driver mentioned above, felt unable to tell anyone what had happened for some time.

What is the story behind the appearances of the gypsy hitchhiker on that particular stretch of road near Asthall Manor? Her soaking wet appearance suggests a connection with the river Windrush nearby. Her brief remark to both drivers gives the impression that someone had drowned in the river - perhaps her efforts to save them were fruitless, and sorrow has kept her forever earthbound to the site of the tragedy? Perhaps we may never know.
 
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A conversation with the hairdresser today became a talk about ‘experiences’.

I happened to mention my partner hearing a knocking on the bathroom door when we were away recently and she said she had had experiences all her life but only talked about it to a couple of friends as people tended to pooh-pooh it, including her husband.

She said the most frightening thing was about a year ago when she was driving home. It was quite late and her kids were in the back of the car.
She lives in a new build estate near the Great Western Hospital and had driven past the hospital entrance down toward the Coate Water Roundabout. It was dark and there were no cars close behind her or in front.

She said that a man stepped out from the side of the road and straight in front of her car. She saw him first out of the corner of her eye and then he moved so quickly there was no way of avoiding him.

She slammed on the brakes and said her first thought was horror that she had killed someone. Recounting it, it was clear she was reliving the shock. (Oh my god, I’ve killed some-one, I’m going to prison, and what about the children?)

She got out of the car, calling her husband and almost crying to him that she’d hit someone and also wondering if the man had stepped out in front of her deliberately.

And there was no-one and nothing there.

Her husband asked her if she’d been drinking (of course not). Then he said she couldn’t have hit anyone, and did she actually feel the
car collide with the man. And she said she realised she hadn’t, and there had been no sound of a bang.

Her kids had seen nothing at all and after making sure that there definitely was no sign of an injured person she carried on home which was only a few minutes away. She said her adrenaline was through the roof, more at the initial belief she had killed someone and then the relief of knowing that she hadn’t rather than the fact she might have seen a ghost.

As far as I know, there was no report of anyone being struck by a car on that road around that time.

I asked her whereabouts on the road it was and she said near the bus stop. There are two along there, but the second is beyond the new builds and near the Sun inn, so she must have meant the first one.

I think that area was simply fields before it was built on as I remember there being objections to building there some years ago.

She said she saw the man quite clearly and described him as tall, fair-haired, wearing a white and pale jacket and black trousers. So, modern enough clothes.
She doesn’t have a dash cam and wished she did as it might have picked up something.

New build estate is on the left of the map, and the area where the bus stop is marked by red. The man stepped out from the left hand side.
Looking at old maps it seems that the only road there at one time used to run where Marlborough rd/Woodbine Terrace/Coate lane now run, ie going to the south of the Spotted Cow Pub- (red line).

It looks like that where your hairdresser saw the man (green dot) would have been fields until the A4259 was added on at some point to expand the lane capacity.

I cannot see the bus stop you mention, but there was a footpath (black line) going from the old road, just past the modern junction, northwards (ie across where the 'modern' road is today).

Maybe the ghost was following this old path?
Fanari.png
 
Looking at old maps it seems that the only road there at one time used to run where Marlborough rd/Woodbine Terrace/Coate lane now run, ie going to the south of the Spotted Cow Pub- (red line).

It looks like that where your hairdresser saw the man (green dot) would have been fields until the A4259 was added on at some point to expand the lane capacity.

I cannot see the bus stop you mention, but there was a footpath (black line) going from the old road, just past the modern junction, northwards (ie across where the 'modern' road is today).

Maybe the ghost was following this old path?
View attachment 70737
Here's the bus stop, by the south lane and the junction with Homington Avenue:
Coate.png
 
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