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Contrails & Chemtrails

I think people are beginning to freak because they're seeing more and more contrails. They're filling the skys in a lot of areas, mostlly over established routes.

It's not surprising, really. They're are more and more flights, civilian and military, these days. Think of all those cut-throat price wars between the cut-price airlines.

A little water vapour goes a long way at high altitudes. I once spent a whole, cold, winter, in northern latitudes, in a small cabin with a paraffin (kerosine, i.e aviation fuel) heater. Believe me, you get a gallon of water back for every gallon you burn.
 
Contrails or chemtrails

I'm new to this contrail/chemtrail debate so I've done some reading and have kept an eye to the sky. I have noticed that the contrails have gotten wider and seem to linger longer and I witnessed a very strange sun dog last weekend. That being said, I have to wonder if it's a by-product increased air travel and a more polluted atmosphere. I don't think anyone will debate that the atmopsphere is entirely different than it was 30-40-50 years ago. Can it be that this is how contrails act now as opposed to the 1960's when air travel was considerably less. With more particulants in the air condensation is greater and lasts longer. If our government is puting chemicals into the air and they linger, why hasn't anyoine come up with an air sample?
 
I also saw an unusual sundog formation, with a rather pretty circlular, rainbow, round the sun last week as well. Caused by ice crystals at high altitude, I think.

I don't think any extra chemicals have to be added to jet trails. They persist long enough to create an artificial glass house over the planet as it is.

Gloomy thoughts and prognostications, here.
 
http://www.rense.com has a lot on this topic of chemtrails. I am no scientist, but I don't think this is a false story. About a month ago I saw five planes flying in the same general area. They were planes of significant force and they were leaving the contrails in question. Some were flying straight up and high while others were going fast across leaving the trails. Now why would there be five such high powered planes in the same area obviously not commercial flights and leaving that crap on us? It would be nice to hear from people with real info on this and not your run of the mill skeptic.com shite.
 
What are sundogs?

Sundogs are copies of the sun's image, usually either side of the real sun. caused by refraction through high altitude ice crystals. They are often accompanied by intersecting darker rings. The ice crystals act a bit like a fresnel lens (like a see through version of a CD) causing interference patterns..

Now why would there be five such high powered planes in the same area obviously not commercial flights and leaving that crap on us?
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Sorry, to be such a sceptic. I've lived near several major airports since I was knee-high. I've seen them all: Comets; Boeing 707's; Vulcan bombers; Starfighters; Tridents; Concord; etc.

Contrails are contrails. Get enough of them under the right conditions, i.e. very cold, rareified, but super-saturated air and the upper-atmosphere would be like the inside of a bubble chamber. The contrails, acting like the tracks of alpha particles, would last for hours.

Why so many `high powered' planes. I seem to remember, military patrols were greatly increased after the Sept11 thing. They might even be up there for your protection.
 
Androman unless you can speak to the material on rense.com or other places on this, you are acting like the run of the mill cynic. You sound like GW who lies about what they knew about planes flying into buildings or of his deep scumbag ties to Enron. You fool no one. You can't just spout your mouth off with your opinion. I didn't make this story up, and it seems that you have never even heard of this, so off with your lame argument.
 
You fool no one. You can't just spout your mouth off with your opinion. I didn't make this story up, and it seems that you have never even heard of this, so off with your lame argument.
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Friend, my argument isn't that they aren't adding anything to the contrails. It's that they don't need to. The real damage is been done by the increasing amounts of greenhouse gasses: Carbon dioxide; methane; nitrous oxide; etc. That's where the oil companies and GW . are busy with the cover up. How many cars sit in your garage?

What I'd really like to know is why were there so many `sun dogs' last week? From north western Europe to Florida. Pretty unusual weather conditions.

By the way, nwoisevil, what's your stance on fluoridation?
 
Androman why don't uyou get a clue and keep to the thread. This thread is on chemtrails not flouridation. Why don't you think out better what thread you respond to cause you are just adding clutter to a topic that many are worried about. Your know it all attitude is what is wrong with things and why people need to start telling the status quo to go to fcking hell
 
Androman why don't uyou get a clue and keep to the thread.
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Couple of posts ago you asked me to take a good look at the evidence, including the stuff on rense.com. I went over the thread again and tried the rense.com site. All I got was an invite to join `yahoo groups.'

I even went back over your posts. I agree with a lot of what you've written on a lot of subjects. No doubt about it, wars are being instigated to secure access and control of oil and gas supplies.

I'm still a big believer in the `big cock up' view of history rather than the grand conspiracy. I still don't see the `chemtrails' as a real possibility.

Culling the population? The fast food industry and the medical system in the States are perfectly capable of handling that one themselves.

Innoculating the population? Spraying from 38,000 feet doesn't seem terribly efficient to me. Put it in the drinking water, coffee, or, breakfast cereal.

Other factors?Cloud seeding? Combatting the greenhouse effect? Possibly. I still think unlikely. Scares from the sky have been going on for a long time. The problem with Chem/Contrails is they remind me too much of a cross between the `invisible helicopters' of the late sixties, early seventiies and the falls of `angel hair' and that sticky yellow powder that turned out later, respectively, to be spider webbing and pollen.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I think you're aware that you're being sh*t on from a great height. Trouble is you're make that awareness into something concrete.

This thread is on chemtrails not flouridation.
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When fluoridation of the water supply was first put forward as a cure to rotting teeth, people objected suspecting some sort of sinister motive. It was the reason the base comander in `Dr Strangelove' launched a nuclear attack on the USSR.

`Course the real reason, fluoridation of the water supply is seriously considered to fight tooth decay, is that the sugar industry is so powerful no one dares suggest seriously limiting the amount people consume.

Do your self a favour. Get your hands on some of Noam Chomsky's political writings. I don't think he believes in UFO's, but he is very smart and on the ball when it comes to hidden motives.

If I've p*ss*d you off I apologise before hand. Reason I got to thinking about contrails is because I've had to fly six times in the last six months. Two years ago I couldn't have afforded to do that. Prices have come down phenomenally. Set me to thinking.
 
Hi androman I hope u can accept my apologies. I've had so many people take shots at me that I jumped the gun and put you into that category. Yes the flouridation makes sense then. Also in today's news is a story of the US govt. doing gas experiments on a navy ship. As for u not getting into http://www.rense.com I don't understand that. Again sorry I didn't realize that we are on the same side. Take care.
 
Thanks, nwoisevil. I could get into rense.com okay. It was their `chemtrails' link that didn't work. I haven't tried it since.
 
Androman please try to find out about the chemtrails. I figure that if it was a crazy story it would have been in the news and debunked. When I hear nothing about it I tend to think the worst. Like why don't we ever hear about the anthrax after it seemed to have been done by a right wing nut job. We sure heard about it when it aided this war on terrorism. Why don't we hear about that guy Vreeland who supposedly had foreknowledge of 9/11. If that is a hoax wouldn't we hear about it and then see that it is a joke. Chemtrails? we never hear about it so maybe it is true.
 
This chemical contrail thing reminds me of an article I read several years ago . The actual article was in a cat fancy magazine ( Cats I think ) about a particular burmese champion cat . The story focused on his ill health and how he had overcome it to win lots of prizes at shows . One day the cat,when he was young,was playing in the garden when the area was showered by jelly bubbles , I don't remember whether a plane was mentioned . Not only did the cat become very ill with multiple organ failure and nearly died but his owner's neighbour was showered with the bubbles too and though I can't recall exactly he was either permanently disabled or actually died . The cat's owner tried to find out what the jelly bubbles were but drew a total blank - there was no crop spraying in the area and no evidence remained . She was as good as told she imagined it .
 
nwoisevil said:
Androman please try to find out about the chemtrails. I figure that if it was a crazy story it would have been in the news and debunked.
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Some stories are just too obviously paranoid delusions to be worth the effort.
Contrails are just contrails. Any powered aircraft will leave them if it goes high enough.
 
I went for a walk today and saw three contrails in a particularly pretty triangle before me. I didn't have a camera but tried to sketch a diagram:
 
When I was walking my dog a while back two airliners and a fighter crossed each other's paths in such a way as to draw a giant Saltire in the sky. It was in the newspapers and everything.
 
How would you debunk chemtrails?

If you managed to get an air sample from a contrail that believers said was a chemtrail and it showed there was no contamination beyond what would be expected, surely they would say "OK that one was just atmospheric conditions, but this one over here, that's a chemtrail!"
To prove it wasn't happening you would need to sample every contrail produced. And that aint possible.
 
The big error about the whole thing is that, although the trails are apprently pretty much overhead, they're also at least several miles up. This would be a singularly useless way of deploying any type of chemical for any reason. Windshear alone would make the chemicals become very dissipated, and also deposit anything many miles from the source of the overhead trail. Now, I'd argue that this is hardly the most accurate way of delivering anything - especially when you could do it by other means (i.e. using the local water supply).
 
JerryB, very good point. Conspiratorial thought generally seems to suggest that a lot of alleged conspirators are actually very incompotent and create overly convoluted plots. Chemtrails are either non-existant, or they are the product of conspirators who are so inept that we needn't lose sleep over the matter. :)
 
There is of course the fact that what ever is in the trail is staying up there...
 
Fortis said:
JerryB, very good point. Conspiratorial thought generally seems to suggest that a lot of alleged conspirators are actually very incompotent and create overly convoluted plots. Chemtrails are either non-existant, or they are the product of conspirators who are so inept that we needn't lose sleep over the matter. :)
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Well, I tend to see it as similar to the line of thinking that goes along with orbs, etc. - that it's really poorly understood mundane things spiced up with alot of overactive imagination.
 
Came across a reference some a few months back in which a former civil airline pilot said that usa scientists paid him to release a chemical from his plane at a pre-determined point on his flight path. He was told the mechanism to effect this would be fixed to his plane, and was to be of 'no concern' to him and that the chemicals were non-toxic and for research purposes. He was also instructed to tell no-one about this 'secret research'. He said he did not think he was the only pilot involved in this.
Unfortunately I did not note this down so I can't remember the source. However, if you wanted to do research in the higher atmospere, this would be the cheapest way to get your gunk up there. Not long ago an artificial aurora was created to study the direction of solar radiation towards the earth, and photographed from the iss, I think, so obviously this story doesn't set any precedents. Nor do govmnts. ask your opinions on slinging stuff up into the atmosphere!:(
 
I'm trying to think of other occassions when people have come forward claimed to have been involved in dodgy government dealings and this odd name keeps jumping into my head...Bob somebody...
 
The problem with such tales is that they lack logic - the govt. could simply just take a plane up themselves and do the whole thing.
 
Without involving some witless civvie who will tell all his mates down the pub...
 
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