Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

blessmycottonsocks

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Figures reveal that at least half a million Covid cases in China were never counted and some 150,000 pensioners in Hubei province alone disappeared from the books in the first 3 months of 2020.
Obviously, a proportion of these deaths may have been natural causes, but it adds to the growing evidence (including dramatic increase in crematoria use) that the official Coronavirus figures published by the Chinese Communist Party are utterly fictitious.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4130162
 

charliebrown

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This Sunday on American CNN, Trump’s CDC director, Dr.Robert Redfield, on a special covid program will say he does not have proof but his “ gut feeling “ is that it came from the Wuhan Lab.

CNN will interview 6 doctors who study diseases.
 
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Ascalon

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Stormkhan

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This Sunday on American CNN, Trump’s CDC director, Dr.Robert Redfield, on a special covid program will say he does not have proof but his “ gut feeling “ is that it came from the Wuhan Lab. ...

Gut feeling is, as far as I'm aware, not evidence acceptable internationally.
 
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Stormkhan

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That's one of the best pieces I've read on the whole thing.
Once again it puts paid to the conspiracy theories with the usual cast of carelessness, negligence, incompetence and lack of planning. ...

Frankly, the incompetence of people and/or governments then the covering up of the same incompetence is more credible than just some old "mega-powerful conspiracy who rules the world is fooling people into not believing in their existence" stuff.
Frankly, if we had some open organisation who could control the world then I'd be happy for it. The system we have at the moment is utterly incompetent.
 
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marhawkman

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Frankly, the incompetence of people and/or governments then the covering up of the same incompetence is more credible than just some old "mega-powerful conspiracy who rules the world is fooling people into not believing in their existence" stuff.
I think part of it is that they don't want to admit that it's China's fault. But there's more to it than that though. Why are multiple political entities OUTSIDE China seemingly helping to cover it up? WHO dismissed it as a random species jump before even investigating. It's a matter of degree here. Saying "It was probably a species jump." as a conclusion based on limited evidence is reasonable. But a different phrasing that is more akin to "We know it was a species jump." That's uh... the sort of comment that requires a stronger justification. It's not phrased as speculation, it's phrased as proven fact.
Frankly, if we had some open organisation who could control the world then I'd be happy for it. The system we have at the moment is utterly incompetent.
Is it incompetent? I'm pretty sure it's goals are simply... different than what you, I or most people would consider to be good. Why have a secret shadow organization when you can have a public organization that is just secret enough that the general public doesn't actually know what they do? So I would argue that the system works as those who actually created it want it to. As a whole, politicians aren't trying to do the right thing.

I forget who it was, but someone a long time ago told me something that really put it into perspective: Good leaders need to somehow embody opposing motivations. On the one hand they need to be motivated to work tirelessly towards their goals and agenda. But on the other hand, their overall agenda needs to be focused on something OTHER than personal greed.

That discussion was about low level organization management. Now apply that principle on a GLOBAL scale. Selfish power hungry people run the world. Whether they fight each other or work together depends on if their goals align. This isn't a deep "Illuminati" style conspiracy, not really. It's far simpler. "The shadowy power broker" trope is in reality( and most fiction) actually a matter of knowing who is pulling the strings. Regular people going about their lives simply don't know who the power brokers are and what they've done. But the power brokers are all public figures. It's not even about whether the public knows they're power brokers.

But I digress. In the case of the Covid 19 stuff the people in power positions seem to be using Covid-19 as a leverage tool and seemingly they don't want China to get blamed(truthfully or otherwise) for causing the pandemic. It makes me wonder why.
 

Mythopoeika

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But I digress. In the case of the Covid 19 stuff the people in power positions seem to be using Covid-19 as a leverage tool and seemingly they don't want China to get blamed(truthfully or otherwise) for causing the pandemic. It makes me wonder why.
Maybe 'they' paid China to do it?
'Look, China, we need to wipe out a lot of excess people and set up a way of controlling the general population - can you help? We'll pay handsomely - signed, The Powers That Be.'
 

Vardoger

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I think part of it is that they don't want to admit that it's China's fault. But there's more to it than that though. Why are multiple political entities OUTSIDE China seemingly helping to cover it up? WHO dismissed it as a random species jump before even investigating. It's a matter of degree here. Saying "It was probably a species jump." as a conclusion based on limited evidence is reasonable. But a different phrasing that is more akin to "We know it was a species jump." That's uh... the sort of comment that requires a stronger justification. It's not phrased as speculation, it's phrased as proven fact.
Is it incompetent? I'm pretty sure it's goals are simply... different than what you, I or most people would consider to be good. Why have a secret shadow organization when you can have a public organization that is just secret enough that the general public doesn't actually know what they do? So I would argue that the system works as those who actually created it want it to. As a whole, politicians aren't trying to do the right thing.

I forget who it was, but someone a long time ago told me something that really put it into perspective: Good leaders need to somehow embody opposing motivations. On the one hand they need to be motivated to work tirelessly towards their goals and agenda. But on the other hand, their overall agenda needs to be focused on something OTHER than personal greed.

That discussion was about low level organization management. Now apply that principle on a GLOBAL scale. Selfish power hungry people run the world. Whether they fight each other or work together depends on if their goals align. This isn't a deep "Illuminati" style conspiracy, not really. It's far simpler. "The shadowy power broker" trope is in reality( and most fiction) actually a matter of knowing who is pulling the strings. Regular people going about their lives simply don't know who the power brokers are and what they've done. But the power brokers are all public figures. It's not even about whether the public knows they're power brokers.

But I digress. In the case of the Covid 19 stuff the people in power positions seem to be using Covid-19 as a leverage tool and seemingly they don't want China to get blamed(truthfully or otherwise) for causing the pandemic. It makes me wonder why.
They don't want to offend the Chinese government because trade deals 'n stuff.
 

Lb8535

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I think it's simpler than that. There's no upside to proving that the virus came from or was created by China. Because if you prove it, then what? The world stops buying from China? really? Better use of time and energy to make it clear to all how it arose and how to avoid it in the future.
 

gordonrutter

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Better use of time and energy to make it clear to all how it arose and how to avoid it in the future.
But part of knowing how it arose is knowing where it came from, it’s not blaming China or wherever, it’s part of the knowledge that we build up about it and the more knowledge we have the better equipped we are to understand it and to be prepared in the future.
 

marhawkman

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But part of knowing how it arose is knowing where it came from, it’s not blaming China or wherever, it’s part of the knowledge that we build up about it and the more knowledge we have the better equipped we are to understand it and to be prepared in the future.
Yeah, that's the real issue, acting like we already know where the virus came from doesn't prevent a similar case of this happening in the future.

If the origin that I think is most likely to be true, is in fact true, this case highlights a danger that well, people knew about but didn't really seem to worry about much. Namely that having people go into regions and interact with wildlife that normally doesn't interact with humans... carries health risks.

It's been seen in the past many times, but never became a widespread disease to my knowledge. Earlier I shared an anecdote about a case in Africa of some guy getting sick, then a village getting sick, then everyone either died or got better before the disease was identified. I'm not able to verify the accuracy since I don't have a copy of the source handy, But it's a concern that if you go to exotic place you might catch diseases you've never heard of.

Personally I've had that happen to me. Several years ago, I was in a tropical country, came down with some disease where the main symptoms were intense fever and coughing.... dunno what it was but I was barely able to get out of bed for several days. Then I got over it. But... this was a disease with (probably) immediate symptoms. It (as far as I know) didn't have a week long period where you may become contagious before having symptoms. At any rate, I got quarantined for good reason, and as far as I know none of my co-workers got that disease.

But if the theory I mentioned earlier is true, then the virus got introduced to a food market in Wuhan on accident... by someone who had been researching viruses. Possibly a field worker who contracted the virus while collecting virus samples from cave bats. If the question is if the virus was "China's fault" well that's an unknown quantity.
 

Lb8535

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But part of knowing how it arose is knowing where it came from, it’s not blaming China or wherever, it’s part of the knowledge that we build up about it and the more knowledge we have the better equipped we are to understand it and to be prepared in the future.
I was responding to the "how do the leaders think" question. Personally I would go for the pure science and push to know regardless of the answer, but I have little chance of ever being elected to anything.
 

Stormkhan

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That's the point, isn't it?
Scientists do science. Politicians do politics.
The former study facts and make assessments - the latter take said assessments and fit them in with political policy and realpolitik.
 

bugmum

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That's the point, isn't it?
Scientists do science. Politicians do politics.
The former study facts and make assessments - the latter take said assessments and fit them in with political policy and realpolitik.

Sadly, in order to procure funding, scientists are forced to do politics too...
 

Vardoger

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A meme from anti-vaxxers.
1617445195258.png
 

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OK, I'm just putting this here for your perusal. I'm not saying I believe any of this.
This is a barking mad conspiracy... essentially, what this video might suggest is that the vaccines are being rolled out to genetically modify us all to reduce our propensity to religious belief. Make of it what you will.
 

Vardoger

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OK, I'm just putting this here for your perusal. I'm not saying I believe any of this.
This is a barking mad conspiracy... essentially, what this video might suggest is that the vaccines are being rolled out to genetically modify us all to reduce our propensity to religious belief. Make of it what you will.
It's 16 years old, so it can't be about COVID-19. I've seen it before. Yup, it's crazy.
 

Mythopoeika

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It's 16 years old, so it can't be about COVID-19. I've seen it before. Yup, it's crazy.
Not sure how its age disqualifies it.
 

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I did get a surprisingly long spam e-mail last week, about how the vaccine will rewrite our DNA which means God will no longer recognise us as his children.
Our DNA is subtly changing over time anyway. Evolution.
 

uair01

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This is an interesting article that says the lab escape hypothesis has not really been disproved:

A defining mark of good scientists is that they go to great pains to distinguish between what they know and what they don’t know. By this criterion, the signatories of the Lancet letter were behaving as poor scientists: they were assuring the public of facts they could not know for sure were true.
It later turned out that the Lancet letter had been organized and drafted by Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance of New York. Dr. Daszak’s organization funded coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. If the SARS2 virus had indeed escaped from research he funded, Dr. Daszak would be potentially culpable. This acute conflict of interest was not declared to the Lancet’s readers. To the contrary, the letter concluded, “We declare no competing interests.”

Virologists like Dr. Daszak had much at stake in the assigning of blame for the pandemic. For 20 years, mostly beneath the public’s attention, they had been playing a dangerous game. In their laboratories they routinely created viruses more dangerous than those that exist in nature. They argued they could do so safely, and that by getting ahead of nature they could predict and prevent natural “spillovers,” the cross-over of viruses from an animal host to people. If SARS2 had indeed escaped from such a laboratory experiment, a savage blowback could be expected, and the storm of public indignation would affect virologists everywhere, not just in China. “It would shatter the scientific edifice top to bottom,” an MIT Technology Review editor, Antonio Regalado, said in March 2020.

https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038
 

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marhawkman

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This is an interesting article that says the lab escape hypothesis has not really been disproved:

A defining mark of good scientists is that they go to great pains to distinguish between what they know and what they don’t know. By this criterion, the signatories of the Lancet letter were behaving as poor scientists: they were assuring the public of facts they could not know for sure were true.
It later turned out that the Lancet letter had been organized and drafted by Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance of New York. Dr. Daszak’s organization funded coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. If the SARS2 virus had indeed escaped from research he funded, Dr. Daszak would be potentially culpable. This acute conflict of interest was not declared to the Lancet’s readers. To the contrary, the letter concluded, “We declare no competing interests.”

Virologists like Dr. Daszak had much at stake in the assigning of blame for the pandemic. For 20 years, mostly beneath the public’s attention, they had been playing a dangerous game. In their laboratories they routinely created viruses more dangerous than those that exist in nature. They argued they could do so safely, and that by getting ahead of nature they could predict and prevent natural “spillovers,” the cross-over of viruses from an animal host to people. If SARS2 had indeed escaped from such a laboratory experiment, a savage blowback could be expected, and the storm of public indignation would affect virologists everywhere, not just in China. “It would shatter the scientific edifice top to bottom,” an MIT Technology Review editor, Antonio Regalado, said in March 2020.

https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038
hunh found a companion piece today.
More evidence that the Wuhan lab-leak theory is the correct one (msn.com)
Daszak and Fauci were both involved with funding the Wuhan institute of Virology. So it makes sense that they'd want to protect it. And like you said, Daszak started publicly denouncing the lab leak idea... in feb 2020. Yeah, immediately after the internet started pondering it(just look at the date this thread started: 24Jan2020), and before any real info on the virus origin was public.

That statement is hard to see it as anything but reactionary rhetoric since it's seemingly based on a LACK of information. IIRC wasn't the wording something odd along the lines of "We have no evidence this is the case. Therefore we consider it incorrect." My first though mirrors what you said. Shouldn't you LOOK for information before declaring that it doesn't exist?
 

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