J.R.R. Tolkien

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
52,277
Reaction score
27,932
Points
309
Location
Eblana
And that's when I decided I will not watch the movie, is their no mention of gandalf = odin?

I was being a tad tongue in cheek, the Saxon and Viking epics are mentioned. The film really is worth watching.
 

Ogdred Weary

Very Naughty Boy
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
5,511
Reaction score
10,223
Points
284
Tolkien: Not quite the romantic warrior professor but certainly all three of the preceding in part. Tolkien had a tough early life, falling into impecunity, his mother had to move with J.R.R. (Harry Gilby as the young Tolkien) and his brother from a rural idyll to the satanic mills and factories of Birmingham, an early model for Mordor no doubt. Then getting excessively MisLit, his mother (Laura Donnelly) dies and he is fostered by an elderly rich lady and along with his brother gets scholarships to an exclusive school. His family's benefactor, always working behind the scenes, is Father Morgan (Colm Meaney), benevelovent but steely in his determination when Tolkien's romance with Edith threatens his chances of getting an Oxford scholarship. Morgan may have been the inspiration for Gandalf.

At school Tolkien founds a Fellowship with other artistically minded students bur the Great War will wreak havoc on that brotherhood. The film cuts between Tolkien's earlier life and the trenches of the Somme. This is literally Hell, a real Mordor. The adult J.R.R .(Nicholas Hoult) is on a (perhaps allegorical) quest to the Front to find one of the Fellowship who is missing in action. He passes through mud holes full of bodies and fever stricken imagines that a german with a flamethrower is a dragon. The film suggests many inspirations for his books, Edith (Lily Collins) as an Elven Princess, his mother's reading tales of dragons when he was a boy, the War, his schooldays. A great influence on him was the philologist Professor Wright (Derek Jacobi) who won him over to the study of Old English and Gothic languages. Directed by Dome Karukoski from a screenplay by David Gleeson and Stephen Beresford, Tolkien is an engaging account of the earlier life of the scholar and author. 8/10

Does CS Lewis help him locate The One Ring to Rule Them All?
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
32,175
Reaction score
19,599
Points
309
Amusing review of Tolkien by Mark Kermode:

According to him, it's basically Portentous Foreshadowing: The Movie. Maybe significantly, the Tolkien family hate it.
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
52,277
Reaction score
27,932
Points
309
Location
Eblana
Maybe significantly, the Tolkien family hate it.

Maybe they didn't like it's portrayal of the family in reduced circumstances, depending on the kindness of strangers/ I have to admit I was a bit worried for a while as the film was taking an Angela's Ashes tack but the boys were swiftly rescued by the stuffy but kind old lady.
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
32,175
Reaction score
19,599
Points
309
Maybe they didn't like it's portrayal of the family in reduced circumstances, depending on the kindness of strangers/ I have to admit I was a bit worried for a while as the film was taking an Angela's Ashes tack but the boys were swiftly rescued by the stuffy but kind old lady.

Apparently they haven't even seen it, they're just offended by its very existence.
 

skinny

TIT
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
8,245
Reaction score
8,571
Points
294
Location
Lydon Park
This discussion features a comparative analysis of the works of Tolkein, particularly LOTR, and Jung's The Red Book. Becca Tarnas is an academic, but whadaya gunna do? A thoroughly enjoyable chat.

 

pandacracker

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
1,213
Reaction score
2,836
Points
184
I've often wondered how in this section from "A Long Expected Party" got past the editors:

And there was
also one last surprise, in honour of Bilbo, and it startled the hobbits
exceedingly, as Gandalf intended. The lights went out. A great smoke went
up. It shaped itself like a mountain seen in the distance, and began to glow
at the summit. It spouted green and scarlet flames. Out flew a red -golden
dragon - not life-size, but terribly life-like: fire came from his jaws, his
eyes glared down; there was a roar, and he whizzed three times over the
heads of the crowd. They all ducked, and many fell flat on their faces. The
dragon passed like an express train, turned a somersault, and burst over
Bywater with a deafening explosion.

Middlearth doesn't have trains!
 

Xanatic*

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
4,465
Reaction score
4,881
Points
159
Wasn't there a delay of several hundreds of years between those things in our world as well?
 

skinny

TIT
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
8,245
Reaction score
8,571
Points
294
Location
Lydon Park
Well yeah... but it's still a pretty good book.
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
Staff member
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32,904
Reaction score
41,054
Points
309
Location
East of Suez
I've often wondered how in this section from "A Long Expected Party" got past the editors:

And there was
also one last surprise, in honour of Bilbo, and it startled the hobbits
exceedingly, as Gandalf intended. The lights went out. A great smoke went
up. It shaped itself like a mountain seen in the distance, and began to glow
at the summit. It spouted green and scarlet flames. Out flew a red -golden
dragon - not life-size, but terribly life-like: fire came from his jaws, his
eyes glared down; there was a roar, and he whizzed three times over the
heads of the crowd. They all ducked, and many fell flat on their faces. The
dragon passed like an express train, turned a somersault, and burst over
Bywater with a deafening explosion.

Middlearth doesn't have trains!

Middle-Earth is our own Earth in an imaginary past.

The Third Age in which the War of the Ring takes place, is supposed to be c. 6,000 before our own time and the unnamed narrator speaks to us, well, an early-to-mid Twentieth Century 'us', in our own idiom. Beorn, for instance, is described, IIRC, as having a voice 'like drums and guns', despite firearms never being directly mentioned in any of the narrative.

More generally, Tolkien's narrator is a modern--if old-fashioned and bookish--storyteller re-telling the events laid down in the Red Book of Westmarch:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_of_Westmarch

Besides which, although the concept of industry is invariably painted in negative colours, there are suggestions that Númenor was industrialised, the goblins were skilled in mechanised 'devices' and Saruman seeks to turn the Shire into a post-feudal 'modern' society.

Edit: From The Hobbit:

Now goblins are cruel, wicked, and bad-hearted. They make no beautiful things, but they make many clever ones. It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, and also not working with their own hands more than they could help; but in those days and those wild parts they had not advanced (as it is called) so far.

That's more developed that you might have come away thinking, another tie between this legendary past and our present, plus an indication ('since', 'in those days') that the narrator is of our age, not that of the events he narrates.
 
Last edited:

skinny

TIT
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
8,245
Reaction score
8,571
Points
294
Location
Lydon Park
Old Tovey; finest weed in the South Farthing
giphy.gif
 

Cochise

Priest of the cult of the Dog with the Broken Paw
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
6,750
Reaction score
9,357
Points
284
This is a description of a fireworks display put on by Gandalf? If there are fireworks in Middlearth, why no cannons and guns?

Gandalf's command of fire is because he is wielder of Narya the Great, the Ring of Fire .

The dwarves do make small fireworks, but that doesn't necessarily mean they could work out how to make guns. The Inca's had wheels but only ever used them on toys.

I've read the Silmarillion. More than once. Haven't read all the posthumous released books though.
 

INT21

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
7,759
Reaction score
6,473
Points
279
The Silmarillion .

Tried three times but can't get into it. Must try harder.

As for Gold Wielders, anyone read Stephen Donaldson's 'White Gold Wielder' ?
 

titch

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
3,533
Reaction score
4,599
Points
169
Same - no wish to try it again.
I found it hard going at the start, an endless list of name and places, with amazing individual stories keeping my interest from flagging, but now I love it as a whole book.
 
Top