Mallory: First To Conquer Everest?

Was Mallory First To Conquer Everest?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • No, they didn't make it to the summit

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • It doesn't matter. They didn't survive so it doesn't count anyway.

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • No, it was Sherpa Tensing

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • We'll never know for sure, so Hillary should get the credit

    Votes: 6 33.3%
  • No, it was probably some levitating monk

    Votes: 3 16.7%

  • Total voters
    18

Cochise

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
4,950
Likes
4,568
Points
159
#31
I think the poll needs more options, e.g.

Would like to think they made it but don't believe they did.
 

emina

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
192
Likes
59
Points
34
#33
ChrisBoardman said:
I don't think we will ever get proof, just more theories.
Probably, but the thought that the camera might be found with a retrievable picture is always going to be tantalising until someone actually finds it and proves it either way.

As for the possibly-mythical photograph of his wife to be left at the summit; that would constitute proof too, but then again, so many people have been there since, I'm pretty sure it would've been found by now. Having said that, here are some other possibilities to consider, to keep tyhe dream alive eternally:

1) The photograph of his wife was left at the summit but is now under layers of ice and snow and will never be found.

2) The photograph of his wife was at the summit when Hillary and Tenzing arrived, but they chucked it off. (Sorry, unfunny black humour! Sterling chaps the pair of them! ) ;)
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
Staff member
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
25,912
Likes
25,871
Points
309
Location
East of Suez

rynner2

Great Old One
Joined
Aug 7, 2001
Messages
55,252
Likes
8,932
Points
284
Location
Under the moon
#35
Caveat: I haven't read the full work.

A curiosity here:

The Psychic Life of George Herbert Leigh Mallory

By Ray Eugene Harkleroad, Junior
I've just read all of it, as available on that web page.

Fascinating stuff, but it doesn't really belong on this thread - it adds almost nothing to our knowledge of climbing Everest, but is mainly about Reincarnation.

No doubt George Mallory would have been surprised to find that he would be reincarnated as a Gay (or Queer, as he would have probably known it)! Or that one of his many occupations would be as the owner of a biker bar!

Nevertheless an interesting read - I found some parallels with my own life (apart from being gay and running a biker bar, that is!), and with a significant anniversary coming up, "What's life all about?" is a thought constantly in my mind right now.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
12,452
Likes
14,005
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
#36
I can't find any reference to this story having been noted before ...

According to this 2013 Guardian article, fellow mountaineer Frank Smythe spotted Mallory's remains in 1936, but kept it a secret. Smythe's son Tony discovered mention of this in reading his father's diaries while writing a book about him and his exploits.
Lifelong secret of Everest pioneer: I discovered Mallory's body in 1936

Tony Smythe knew he might find secrets when he came to write a book about his father, the 1930s Everest pioneer Frank Smythe. But he hadn't anticipated they might include Frank's discovery of George Mallory's body in 1936. "I found it in the back of a diary," Smythe says. "He'd written out a sequence of letters he'd sent, so he would have a copy." ...

The crucial letter was addressed to Edward Norton, leader of the 1924 expedition when Mallory and Irvine disappeared, apparently going for the summit. An ice axe, assumed to belong to Irvine, had been discovered in 1933 by the fourth British expedition to the mountain. It was lying on rock, as though placed there, at 27,760ft, the only trace of either man above their last camp. Smythe ... felt sure it marked the scene of an accident and told Norton why. "I was scanning the face from base camp through a high-powered telescope last year," his letter read, "when I saw something queer in a gully below the scree shelf. Of course it was a long way away and very small, but I've a six/six eyesight and do not believe it was a rock. This object was at precisely the point where Mallory and Irvine would have fallen had they rolled on over the scree slopes."

... "It's not to be written about," Smythe told Norton, "as the press would make an unpleasant sensation." ...
FULL STORY: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/23/mallory-body-everest-secret-frank-smythe
 

AnonyJoolz

Captainess Sensible
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
725
Likes
1,951
Points
134
Location
Having a nice cup of tea and a sit-down.
#37
As an aside, I find it curious that Tenzing Norgay is almost never given his full name. He's referred to as Sherpa Tenzing - a bit like calling Edmund Hillary 'Climber Edmund' or 'Client Edmund'.

Sherpa is a job description title but is also a Nepalese caste name/surname; ie. one can be a Sherpa but not named Sherpa and vice-versa.

Tenzing's sons Tashi and Jamling also successfully climed Everest (Chomolungma in Tibetan dialect, Sagarmartha in Nepalese)
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
12,452
Likes
14,005
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
#38
... Sherpa is a job description title but is also a Nepalese caste name/surname; ie. one can be a Sherpa but not named Sherpa and vice-versa. ...
Both the job description / title and the formally documented surname usages were projected onto the Sherpa people by outsiders.

'Sherpa' is the name of the ethnic group. This ethnic group was traditionally very tightly integrated. The group consists of 18 family clans, each of which has a clan name.

However, the Sherpa people did not use their clan names in personal identification owing to the group being small and closely interlinked enough that everybody knew which clan a particular individual belonged to. In other words, the Sherpa people didn't bother with surnames in the Western sense.

If pressed to specify a surname equivalent, Sherpas would conventionally use 'Sherpa' rather than their clan name. In other words, 'Sherpa' was the preferred affiliation reflected in a virtual surname presumed and recorded by others / outsiders rather than Sherpas themselves.

Owing to their mountaineering abilities, outsiders (especially Western mountaineers) began using the term 'Sherpa' in the colloquial sense of a mountain guide or porter.

Circa 1960 Nepal conducted a census. The census format required specification of given name(s) and surnames. The Sherpa population either demurred from specifying a surname or followed the convention of using 'Sherpa'. Whether by personal attestation or census-takers' frustrated default, 'Sherpa' was documented as the surname for most of the group.

As such, 'Tenzing Norgay' is a pair of given names, and no clan / surname is contained therein. As it happens, this wasn't even Tenzing's original birth name.

Norgay was originally called "Namgyal Wangdi", but as a child his name was changed on the advice of the head lama and founder of Rongbuk Monastery, Ngawang Tenzin Norbu. "Tenzing Norgay" translates as "wealthy-fortunate-follower-of-religion". His father, a yak herder, was Ghang La Mingma (d. 1949), and his mother was Dokmo Kinzom (who lived to see him climb Everest); he was the 11th of 13 children, most of whom died young.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzing_Norgay

Being called 'Sherpa Tenzing' wasn't a condescending 'Guide Tenzing' nickname akin to (e.g.) 'Mechanic Joe'. It was more like 'Tenzing of the Sherpa People', and accurately reflects the manner in which he would have given a surname equivalent in accordance with prevailing custom.

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherpa_people
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=608715
https://andyoneverest.weebly.com/blog/sherpa-whats-in-a-name
 

Ghost In The Machine

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
881
Likes
2,159
Points
139
Location
Yorkshire
#40
I think they summited. The often cited reasons - snow goggles in pocket and wife's photo, which he said he'd leave on summit, not found on the body - although other documents were. Although many authorities think they got close but turned back before the final push. This story has fascinated me for years, have to say.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
12,452
Likes
14,005
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
#44
How pervasive might thar "unindexed effect" be? Or does it (frustratingly) form a Rumsfeldian unknown unknown?
No more than 1 - 2% by my estimates (exclusive of retired / damaged threads withheld from public view and inaccessible to search engine bots).

In the specific 'Smythe' (vis a vis Mallory / Everest) case, I'm confident nothing was ever posted here in the first place.
 

LordRsmacker

Abominable Snowman
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
650
Likes
400
Points
79
#45
Both the job description / title and the formally documented surname usages were projected onto the Sherpa people by outsiders.

'Sherpa' is the name of the ethnic group. This ethnic group was traditionally very tightly integrated. The group consists of 18 family clans, each of which has a clan name.

However, the Sherpa people did not use their clan names in personal identification owing to the group being small and closely interlinked enough that everybody knew which clan a particular individual belonged to. In other words, the Sherpa people didn't bother with surnames in the Western sense.

If pressed to specify a surname equivalent, Sherpas would conventionally use 'Sherpa' rather than their clan name. In other words, 'Sherpa' was the preferred affiliation reflected in a virtual surname presumed and recorded by others / outsiders rather than Sherpas themselves.

Owing to their mountaineering abilities, outsiders (especially Western mountaineers) began using the term 'Sherpa' in the colloquial sense of a mountain guide or porter.

Circa 1960 Nepal conducted a census. The census format required specification of given name(s) and surnames. The Sherpa population either demurred from specifying a surname or followed the convention of using 'Sherpa'. Whether by personal attestation or census-takers' frustrated default, 'Sherpa' was documented as the surname for most of the group.

As such, 'Tenzing Norgay' is a pair of given names, and no clan / surname is contained therein. As it happens, this wasn't even Tenzing's original birth name.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzing_Norgay

Being called 'Sherpa Tenzing' wasn't a condescending 'Guide Tenzing' nickname akin to (e.g.) 'Mechanic Joe'. It was more like 'Tenzing of the Sherpa People', and accurately reflects the manner in which he would have given a surname equivalent in accordance with prevailing custom.

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherpa_people
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=608715
https://andyoneverest.weebly.com/blog/sherpa-whats-in-a-name

I used to have a Leyland Sherpa.

Just sayin'...
 

GerdaWordyer

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
820
Likes
1,077
Points
139
#46
A Great Mystery. Do we want them solved, or do we want to ponder and theorize forever? Did Mallory summit, Who was Jack the Ripper, what the hell was on the 18 minutes Nixon erased? Do we want them solved? I do.
 
Top