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OOPArts: Out Of Place Artefacts & Archaeological Erratics

Souleater said:
The talk of ancient myths and the great flood stories reminded me of a book i read a while ago called 'Atlantis' by David Gibbins, although it is a novel he does come up with some interesting theories around the Gilgamesh/biblical flood story, i found it to be an entertaining read.
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I read that too, must be 12 or so years ago.
Quite good fun, in a sort of Boys' Own adventure style, and fairly reminiscent of Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt series.
Not sure it has much of any realism to tell us about Atlantis but, as that remains in the realms of legend, I suppose Gibbins' guess is as good as anyone's'!
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
I read that too, must be 12 or so years ago.
Quite good fun, in a sort of Boys' Own adventure style, and fairly reminiscent of Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt series.
Not sure it has much of any realism to tell us about Atlantis but, as that remains in the realms of legend, I suppose Gibbins' guess is as good as anyone's'!
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I thought the theory was as good as any other ive heard :p
 
Amergin said:
There’s a 1,200-year-old phone in the Smithsonian collections, apparently:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smit...one-in-the-smithsonian-collections-180947641/
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My only reservation is that we are looking at this item through modern eyes, could this item not be a musical type instrument? If you were to spin it around your head by the cord I'm pretty sure it will make a whistling/howling type sound, I think the Aboriginal people of Australia had a wooden plate attached to a cord, called a bull roared, which had a similar purpose.

 
Nosmo King said:
My only reservation is that we are looking at this item through modern eyes, could this item not be a musical type instrument? If you were to spin it around your head by the cord I'm pretty sure it will make a whistling/howling type sound, I think the Aboriginal people of Australia had a wooden plate attached to a cord, called a bull roared, which had a similar purpose.

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The shape of the ear-pieces look wrong for a bull-roarer.
Until proven otherwise, Im happy with the description of an audio device:

phone.JPG
 
Nosmo King said:
My only reservation is that we are looking at this item through modern eyes, could this item not be a musical type instrument? If you were to spin it around your head by the cord I'm pretty sure it will make a whistling/howling type sound, I think the Aboriginal people of Australia had a wooden plate attached to a cord, called a bull roared, which had a similar purpose.

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The cord is 75 feet long though, and there’s a device on both ends.
 
Nosmo King said:
It would be interesting if someone were to make a replica out of the same material to see if it would work as a communications device.
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Agreed. Is there some sort of diaphragm at the end of the "receiver" where the cord is fixed?

I remember making a cord telephone when I were a lad using yoghurt pots and it worked surprisingly well (once I'd emptied the yoghurt).
 
It may be a hunting tool. Allows hunters to coordinate their actions to ambush an animal.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Agreed. Is there some sort of diaphragm at the end of the "receiver" where the cord is fixed? ...
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Yes. The Smithsonian article describes the purported 'telephone' as " ... constructed of two resin-coated gourd receivers, each three-and-one-half inches long; stretched-hide membranes stitched around the bases of the receivers; and cotton-twine cord extending 75 feet when pulled taut."

The stretched hides could serve as the requisite membranes / diaphragms.
 
Such devices are known as:

- mechanical telephones
- acoustic telephones
- tin-can telephones
- lover's telephones
- string telephones

In the 19th century such acoustic telephones were marketed as alternatives to the new and relatively crude electrical telephones, at least until Bell's invention matured enough to render them obsolete.
Acoustic telephones literally work on the 'two tin-cans on a string' principle. Two (or sometimes more) firmly mounted instruments, each containing a flexible diaphragm, are connected by a taut wire of high tensile strength. Any vibrations acting upon one diaphragm are mechanically transmitted through the line wire to the other diaphragm, making it vibrate in unison. Thus, sound energy is physically transmitted from one point to another.

The diaphragms themselves were made of many materials, notably wood, metal, animal membrane, fiberboard, and even tightly woven cloth. Those instruments designed for longer lines, perhaps one-half mile or more, would have relatively large diaphragms, up to a foot or so in diameter. Conversely, short-line instruments would have smaller diaphragms, approximately 2 or 3 inches in diameter. ...
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https://web.archive.org/web/2007022...t.telefoonmuseum.com/tel_tech_mechanical.html
 
Mythopoeika said:
It may be a hunting tool. Allows hunters to coordinate their actions to ambush an animal.
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Would the cord not have yo be stretched taut and unobstructed for it to function, I suppose hunting on plains it would be ok but there is the danger of something, animal/prey, cutting across the cord
 
Acoustic telephones could work over a distance of 75 feet (the length of the Chimu device's cord). This webpage reproduces the 1879 instructions for creating a workable acoustic telephone for rural home and farm use ...
A form which may be called the farmer's telephone for communications less than one thousand feet may be stated for the benefit of agricultural readers, who can easily construct it for themselves.
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(Emphasis Added)
How to Construct a Farmer's Telephone In: ACOUSTIC TELEPHONES by Bill Jacobs
https://web.archive.org/web/2007022...t.telefoonmuseum.com/tel_tech_mechanical.html
 
Nosmo King said:
Would the cord not have yo be stretched taut and unobstructed for it to function, I suppose hunting on plains it would be ok but there is the danger of something, animal/prey, cutting across the cord
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Not to mention pulling the cord a little too taut and tearing the delicate membranes.
 
Nosmo King said:
Would the cord not have yo be stretched taut and unobstructed for it to function, I suppose hunting on plains it would be ok but there is the danger of something, animal/prey, cutting across the cord
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Yes ... The cord or wire has to be taut for a mechanical / acoustic telephone to work effectively. If strung sufficiently tight the cord or wire can be routed around corners, so long as it doesn't touch anything that excessively dampens its vibrations.
 
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EnolaGaia said:
Sorry for the delayed answer, but better late than never ...

I suspect you're referring to a picture captioned:



... which appeared in the 1991 Best of Fortean Times. It's mentioned and discussed here:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/strange-machinery.20674/

Edit to Add: Here's the photo ...

index.php
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I am happy to say I can clear this one up! My brother in law works for Associated British Ports in Port Talbot and was involved with the loss of this item from a cargo ship during a storm and tracing the owners. The item is indeed an industrial screw specially made for an engineering company in the far east. My brother in law remembers this well as he earned plenty of overtime working on it!
 
Nosmo King said:
Would the cord not have yo be stretched taut and unobstructed for it to function, I suppose hunting on plains it would be ok but there is the danger of something, animal/prey, cutting across the cord
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That's a fair point, but they may have used it in forested areas with thick bushes, etc.
 
Nosmo King said:
It would be interesting if someone were to make a replica out of the same material to see if it would work as a communications device.
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Yep ... I wonder why there's no mention of their having constructed any replica from equivalent materials to demonstrate whether and / or how well it would work for communicating.

Another thing I notice is missing is any mention of dating any material from the artifact. There's no mention of how its alleged age of 1,200 years was determined.
 
Maybe fixed between two points? floors of a building, sentry posts, ship to shore...
 
EnolaGaia said:
Yes. The Smithsonian article describes the purported 'telephone' as " ... constructed of two resin-coated gourd receivers, each three-and-one-half inches long; stretched-hide membranes stitched around the bases of the receivers; and cotton-twine cord extending 75 feet when pulled taut."

The stretched hides could serve as the requisite membranes / diaphragms.
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As long as you were actually able to stretch the cord taut 75 feet with no obstructions. Limited utility.
 
EnolaGaia said:
Yep ... I wonder why there's no mention of their having constructed any replica from equivalent materials to demonstrate whether and / or how well it would work for communicating.

Another thing I notice is missing is any mention of dating any material from the artifact. There's no mention of how its alleged age of 1,200 years was determined.
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Doing a quick search on the 'Chimu' people, that the Smithsonian article attributes the artifact to, the culture started circa 900 CE, so I would guess this is where they get the dating from, even though the 'Britannica' entry goes on to say the culture lasted until the 15th century, having been at its height, technology wise, in the early 14th century, so to sum up I would guess at a wide range for dating based on the Chimu people, of the artifact as between 900-1400 CE, unless other dating experiments were done.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chimu
 
Frideswide said:
Maybe fixed between two points? floors of a building, sentry posts, ship to shore...
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Lb8535 said:
As long as you were actually able to stretch the cord taut 75 feet with no obstructions. Limited utility.
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This the the thing that strikes me as most odd ... The connecting cord needs to be taut to carry vibrations, and the cord in this assemblage is 75 feet long. The artifact is capable of being used as an acoustic telephone, but it's limited to serving as an acoustic telephone only at a fixed distance of some 75 feet between the end 'tubes'. No more; no less ...

If this was indeed a communication device it must have been designed for a particular fixed or regular distance between two places or parties - e.g., the sentry posts or floors suggested by Frideswide.

Maybe it was permanently installed for one-way communication - e.g., to alert someone atop or on the other side of a wall a visitor had arrived outside.
 
The ship to shore thing sounded interesting but I don't know if they had ships or shores. From the top of one building to another as a permanent weather=dependent installation. From the top of some deep hole to the bottom.
 
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