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Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

Rigsby said:
Hang on, Fox news sourced this from the PAKISTAN Observer who reported it, that's how journalism works - sources - and wouldn't this newspaper be a reliable source?
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If Fox News are happy to quote it... maybe not.
 
Rigsby said:
Hang on, Fox news sourced this from the PAKISTAN Observer who reported it, that's how journalism works - sources - and wouldn't this newspaper be a reliable source?
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Even the best of sources can be wrong. And according to AQ, this is one of those cases.

AQ's statement on the matter is actual evidence, compared to the hearsay all the conspiracy theories are relying on. There's no competition.
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Recent announcements purporting to come from Al Qaeda sources, allegedly. Those are the very pronouncements that I would expect extraordinary evidence for. Proof somewhat lacking in the past, in my opinion. Especially those rather suspect 'Bin Laden' audio tape rants.
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But there would be no point in Al Q saying that OBL was dead when he isn't. Although I imagine one conspiratorial angle would be that that announcement was fake. Go figure.
 
Rigsby said:
Hang on, Fox news sourced this from the PAKISTAN Observer who reported it, that's how journalism works - sources - and wouldn't this newspaper be a reliable source?
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I don't know. Are you familiar with the Pakistan Observer and how accurate or trustworthy its reporting is? It may well be as sensationalist and propagandist as Fox. Or, as the New York Times pointed out...

"Since Sept. 11, Pakistan's newspapers have rarely failed to produce a daily menu of reports claiming exclusive knowledge of events relating to the Taliban, Al Qaeda and Mr. bin Laden. Many of these accounts have later proved to be exaggerated, wrong or even invented. At the same time, some of the better-known newspapers here have broken major stories ahead of American and European newspapers covering the war, often on the basis of briefings from high-ranking Pakistani intelligence officials.

"A former Pakistani government official familiar with The Pakistan Observer said the newspaper has close ties with Inter-Services Intelligence, or I.S.I., the country's principal military intelligence agency. The agency backed the Taliban from 1994, when their Islamic hard-liners first emerged as a force, until Pakistan officially abandoned them after Sept. 11.

"The former government official said that the paper could have been provided information about Mr. bin Laden by the intelligence agency, but he cautioned that this might only mean that Taliban supporters in I.S.I. wanted to mislead the United States into thinking that Mr. bin Laden might be dead in order to confuse efforts to track him down."


It's worth noting that the New York Times reported the story on the same day as Fox. The difference is that the New York Times did proper journalism where Fox did sloppy journalism.
 
Jerry_B said:
jimv1 said:
I'm pretty certain they must have meticulously planned ahead for the disposal of the corpse according to tradition and potential martyrdom. So I don't quite buy a simple lack of coordination in the subsequent muddled and messy releasing of the biggest news story in the last decade.

That's what's confusing me.
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They may have had plans about what was going to happen, but after the fact stuff seems to have been muddled in, like I've said, the rush to get the news out. Maybe the various departments involved with it all made a hash up of this.
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In which case, it may be better not to comment on future major stories until at least the 3rd official version has come out.
 
Jerry_B said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Recent announcements purporting to come from Al Qaeda sources, allegedly. Those are the very pronouncements that I would expect extraordinary evidence for. Proof somewhat lacking in the past, in my opinion. Especially those rather suspect 'Bin Laden' audio tape rants.
Click to expand...

But there would be no point in Al Q saying that OBL was dead when he isn't. Although I imagine one conspiratorial angle would be that that announcement was fake. Go figure.
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Prove they are not fake.
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Jerry_B said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Recent announcements purporting to come from Al Qaeda sources, allegedly. Those are the very pronouncements that I would expect extraordinary evidence for. Proof somewhat lacking in the past, in my opinion. Especially those rather suspect 'Bin Laden' audio tape rants.
Click to expand...

But there would be no point in Al Q saying that OBL was dead when he isn't. Although I imagine one conspiratorial angle would be that that announcement was fake. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Prove they are not fake.
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If they were fake then that would pose some interesting questions.

First of all one would have to ask why AQ have not issued a denial of its authenticity (perhaps they will in a few days although then we'd be left to ponder which AQ if any is the one to believe).

Secondly if they are faked and AQ doesn't issue a denial then is this because they're incapable of doing so, perhaps having somehow been denied even the most basic means of communicating their message? Or is it because they believe that there is something to be gained from allowing the false information to stand?

Of course, all of this would be immaterial if AQ, or the people who are commonly referred to as such, did not exist as anything independent of American covert operations. But is there really anyone of serious mind who doubts that an organisation of such people, no matter how loosely affiliated, really exists?
 
A muffled audio cassette tape here, a bogus video there. All too easy to fake.

Amateurs have been doing it with UFOs for years.

So why not an attenuated terrorist network? The right hand of which is never completely sure what the left hand is doing. Little loosely linked cells of fanatics. Never completely sure of who's in charge, or who is next down the line.

Is not that how it is actually supposed to work? :confused:


:rofl:
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Prove they are not fake.
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Why me? Thus far, we don't have much to go on, for either side. If, however, various factions who identify themselves with Al Q start saying instead that OBL's alive, things might get interesting.
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
A muffled audio cassette tape here, a bogus video there. All too easy to fake.

Amateurs have been doing it with UFOs for years.
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That doesn't make any sense at all. If the organisation is so thoroughly infiltrated then why would you need to fake its communications?

:nah:
 
ted_bloody_maul said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
A muffled audio cassette tape here, a bogus video there. All too easy to fake.

Amateurs have been doing it with UFOs for years.
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That doesn't make any sense at all. If the organisation is so thoroughly infiltrated then why would you need to fake its communications?

:nah:
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There's a wikipedia page devoted to the various Bin Laden tapes. Meant for international consumption and of varying degrees of dodginess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videos_and_audio_recordings_of_Osama_bin_Laden
 
So if OBL's not dead, and there's not been an attempt to kill him, one wonders why the US has been trying to kill - or has killed - various other important figures associated with him. For example, Anwar al-Awlaki.
 
Jerry_B said:
So if OBL's not dead, and there's not been an attempt to kill him, one wonders why the US has been trying to kill - or has killed - various other important figures associated with him. For example, Anwar al-Awlaki.
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It's tacit. They now have his DNA. They can now make as many of him as they want.

BINZILLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
jimv1 said:
Jerry_B said:
So if OBL's not dead, and there's not been an attempt to kill him, one wonders why the US has been trying to kill - or has killed - various other important figures associated with him. For example, Anwar al-Awlaki.
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It's tacit. They now have his DNA. They can now make as many of him as they want.

BINZILLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Errr...bismillah? :)
 
Rigsby said:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=207762.0

Al Qaeda created by CIA?
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Generally anything affiliated to the front for Alex Jones raging ego which is Prison Planet should be treated with the kind of scepticism some call for on reports of Bin Laden's death.

I think the article can best be summed up by the fact that it cites multiple reports of Bin Laden's death from years gone by as proof that he was already dead. That it includes a variety of different causes of deaths across a diverse range of times doesn't give the author pause for thought on the veracity of those claims, oh no. In one case it even makes up the claim (the Albright example).

Further evidence that whatever the confused claims of the US administration they are rarely as confused as those of the conspiracy theorists.
 
There's something about this meditation on fame which I find endearingly post-modern. It's knowing, subtle and damply ironic. May I be the first to nominate it for the Turner Prize:

U.S. releases bin Laden home videos

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011 ... eased.html

I must say all those cables make his gaffe look even more untidy that Tracy Emin's bed. Still, though, I reckon there could be enough footage in those rehearsals for a good bloopers DVD.
 
On the 'home videos' (ridiculous theatre set-up), it's not OBL sitting watching himself on tv, more lies from the U.S government:
The ear is a different shape (not even close) and he's holding the remote in his right hand (OBL was left handed)
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/th ... ave-it.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/th ... e-it-2.jpg

Also, this guy has been out of the news for years now, hardly ever mentioned, and we're supposed to believe that this is OBL watching himself on tv in recent times? Honestly, people will fall for anything, if the mainstream media reports it - totally pathetic.
 
Rigsby said:
On the 'home videos' (ridiculous theatre set-up), it's not OBL sitting watching himself on tv, more lies from the U.S government:
The ear is a different shape (not even close) and he's holding the remote in his right hand (OBL was left handed)
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/th ... ave-it.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/th ... e-it-2.jpg
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I think these photos show that the ears are exactly the same shape. The interior of the ear is lit differently so the shadows look less pronounced on the recent images, but if you look at the outer edge of the ear it is a perfect match.
 
I must be missing something - they look pretty similar to me; the distinctive anti-helix (edit: and antitragus - couldn't remember what that bit was called, had to look it up) is present in both pictures. Ears tend to get a bit longer and floppier with age, which might explain any minor differences.
 
Rigsby said:
On the 'home videos' (ridiculous theatre set-up), it's not OBL sitting watching himself on tv, more lies from the U.S government:
The ear is a different shape (not even close) and he's holding the remote in his right hand (OBL was left handed)
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/th ... ave-it.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/th ... e-it-2.jpg

Also, this guy has been out of the news for years now, hardly ever mentioned, and we're supposed to believe that this is OBL watching himself on tv in recent times? Honestly, people will fall for anything, if the mainstream media reports it - totally pathetic.
Click to expand...

OBL's been out the news for years? That's news to me.
 
Shock horror! If you photograph something from two different angles and from different distances, it'll look different.

I guess it's sorted then. They didn't kill Osama at all. What will this dastardly Government do next? Continue to cover for our lizard overlords? Damn them!
 
Rigsby said:
On the 'home videos' (ridiculous theatre set-up), it's not OBL sitting watching himself on tv, more lies from the U.S government:
The ear is a different shape (not even close) and he's holding the remote in his right hand (OBL was left handed)
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/th ... ave-it.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/th ... e-it-2.jpg

Also, this guy has been out of the news for years now, hardly ever mentioned, and we're supposed to believe that this is OBL watching himself on tv in recent times? Honestly, people will fall for anything, if the mainstream media reports it - totally pathetic.
Click to expand...

And others will fall for anything, if their favourite millionaire conspiracy theory broadcaster tells them to.

I mean, whatreallyhappened.com probably isn't biased at all. They're clearly a serious source, only interested in the truth. :D
 
Rigsby said:
Nah, they're different.
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Ha, fiendish. But I too have read Aristotles On Sophistical Refutations - you won't catch me out with that cunning argumention.
 
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