People Who Just Disappear (Go Missing)

[Min Bannister]

How about this one, on the news yesterday

Leah Croucher was last seen on CCTV in February 2019 in Milton Keynes, then disappeared without a trace.

Unfortunately "human remains" have been found alongside some items belonging to Leah.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-63230270

Police investigating the murder of 19-year-old Leah Croucher have identified human remains at a property where some of her possessions were found.
Thames Valley Police earlier found her rucksack and personal items at a house on Loxbeare Drive in Furzton, Milton Keynes.
The teenager was last seen on CCTV in the city on 15 February 2019.
Formal identification has not taken place but Ms Croucher's family were being kept informed, the force said.
"It is likely to take some time to formally identify the deceased," a spokesperson said.

 

[catseye]

Unfortunately "human remains" have been found alongside some items belonging to Leah.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-63230270

This poor girl reminded me very much of my eldest daughter (albeit my daughter is quite a bit older), behaviourally and in appearance. So rereading about her disappearance and the finding of remains has given me that stomach sink sensation again. I can only imagine how her poor family must be feeling.

 

[Earthly oddity]

Sadly it seems that the property where the remains and belongings were found was rented. The police say the occupant, a paedophile, was in prison when Leah vanished.

Who was occupying the home when it happened?

To think the poor girl was there whilst the police looked elsewhere is so awful for the family.

The owners apparently stayed there after she disappeared but didn't find the belongings/remains - they live abroad and only stay there occasionally.

An estate agent did. In the attic apparently.

Was she lured into the house and trapped in there alive whilst people were searching elsewhere, or did she die very shortly after disappearance?

Poor family.

 

[catseye]

Sadly it seems that the property where the remains and belongings were found was rented. The police say the occupant, a paedophile, was in prison when Leah vanished.

Who was occupying the home when it happened?

To think the poor girl was there whilst the police looked elsewhere is so awful for the family.

The owners apparently stayed there after she disappeared but didn't find the belongings/remains - they live abroad and only stay there occasionally.

An estate agent did. In the attic apparently.

Was she lured into the house and trapped in there alive whilst people were searching elsewhere, or did she die very shortly after disappearance?

Poor family.

I suspect that she was invited into the house, killed and then her body concealed in the attic. I doubt she was trapped while people searched.

 

[Earthly oddity]

I suspect that she was invited into the house, killed and then her body concealed in the attic. I doubt she was trapped while people searched.

I would hope that would be the case, as being trapped and unable to get out would be terrible (in a different way/meaning more suffering prior to death).

It seems the prime suspect police have is another known sex offender who was employed by the owners as a handyman and died a couple of months after Leah disappeared.

The owners of the property weren't very choosy over who they rented to/employed to look after their property, it seems.

The poor family/that poor girl have suffered as a result.

At least the family know where she was, but they have been through so much pain and this must be awful for them.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

I would hope that would be the case, as being trapped and unable to get out would be terrible (in a different way/meaning more suffering prior to death).

It seems the prime suspect police have is another known sex offender who was employed by the owners as a handyman and died a couple of months after Leah disappeared.

The owners of the property weren't very choosy over who they rented to/employed to look after their property, it seems.

The poor family/that poor girl have suffered as a result.

At least the family know where she was, but they have been through so much pain and this must be awful for them.

I am in America, so maybe this is obvious to someone in the UK - but how would a private citizen know that a potential handyman was a "known sex offender?"

 

[Earthly oddity]

I am in America, so maybe this is obvious to someone in the UK - but how would a private citizen know that a potential handyman was a "known sex offender?"

Possibly they wouldn't know they were a sex offender, but I think you can do background checks to find out if someone has a criminal record. If someone else knows more than I do, then please correct me.

 

[catseye]

I would hope that would be the case, as being trapped and unable to get out would be terrible (in a different way/meaning more suffering prior to death).

It seems the prime suspect police have is another known sex offender who was employed by the owners as a handyman and died a couple of months after Leah disappeared.

The owners of the property weren't very choosy over who they rented to/employed to look after their property, it seems.

The poor family/that poor girl have suffered as a result.

At least the family know where she was, but they have been through so much pain and this must be awful for them.

I had heard that the sex offender was a previous renter of the house, but was either dead or in prison when she vanished, but that the current renter was a man that Leah had been (or currently was) in a relationship with. I dare say the truth or a close approximation of same will come out over the next few weeks.

 

[Spookdaddy]

I am in America, so maybe this is obvious to someone in the UK - but how would a private citizen know that a potential handyman was a "known sex offender?"

I think the context is important, and without it the 'known' in 'known sex offender' is a little vague. Known to the police, and known to the public are clearly two different things. The public may know a named individual is a sex offender if, for example, they recognise them from historical reporting of their trial and conviction. There's also a disclosure scheme which allows a concerned individual to request information from the police about another individual should they have spoken or behaved in a way which leads to a suspicion that they may be a risk to children. But there is no publicly accessible register of sex offenders.

 

[Earthly oddity]

I think the context is important, and without it the 'known' in 'known sex offender' is a little vague. Known to the police, and known to the public are clearly two different things. The public may know a named individual is a sex offender if, for example, they recognise them from historical reporting of their trial and conviction. There's also a disclosure scheme which allows a concerned individual to request information from the police about another individual should they have spoken or behaved in a way which leads to a suspicion that they may be a risk to children. But there is no publicly accessible register of sex offenders.

Apologies if I was vague.

From what I have read: The person was known to the police/had previous convictions for sexual assault. He was wanted in connection with a new sexual assault claim and was evading police by changing his name and moving around the UK.

The public may not have been aware of this. Employers can do a background check for criminal records though.

I am sure the forensic experts will be involved in looking at the evidence. The details of what happened during the investigation/search will be looked at closely to see how this scene wasn't found much earlier.

I feel very sorry for the family. They lost this young lady, and her brother took his own life as a result of her disappearance. I hope they will be given support to help them deal with the grief they must be going through.

 

[Earthly oddity]

I had heard that the sex offender was a previous renter of the house, but was either dead or in prison when she vanished, but that the current renter was a man that Leah had been (or currently was) in a relationship with. I dare say the truth or a close approximation of same will come out over the next few weeks.

I hadn't read the relationship detail anywhere.

I think this is so sad. A young lady lost her life, and wasn't found for some time, despite family raising the alarm of her going missing with police. Poor girl. Poor family.

 

[Spookdaddy]

Apologies if I was vague...

No, not at all - I didn't intend any criticism. It's just one of those phrases that gets used so often in the press that we forget it's not actually as self-explanatory as it suggests.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

Apologies if I was vague.

From what I have read: The person was known to the police/had previous convictions for sexual assault. He was wanted in connection with a new sexual assault claim and was evading police by changing his name and moving around the UK.

The public may not have been aware of this. Employers can do a background check for criminal records though.

I am sure the forensic experts will be involved in looking at the evidence. The details of what happened during the investigation/search will be looked at closely to see how this scene wasn't found much earlier.

I feel very sorry for the family. They lost this young lady, and her brother took his own life as a result of her disappearance. I hope they will be given support to help them deal with the grief they must be going through.

If the landlord just hired a person to do a short task, like a repair, then the landlord is not an employer but a customer. In the US, I hire all kinds of handymen with no way to run a criminal background check.

 

[Earthly oddity]

If the landlord just hired a person to do a short task, like a repair, then the landlord is not an employer but a customer. In the US, I hire all kinds of handymen with no way to run a criminal background check.

Fair enough. I think often people don't check the people they employ to do work on their houses as thoroughly as they maybe should. Sometimes you hear of extreme disasters, like collapsing houses, that happen as a result. Fortunately, that doesn't happen too often.

I know I must have sounded judgemental.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

Fair enough. I think often people don't check the people they employ to do work on their houses as thoroughly as they maybe should. Sometimes you hear of extreme disasters, like collapsing houses, that happen as a result. Fortunately, that doesn't happen too often.

I know I must have sounded judgemental.

No problem. It is an emotional topic.

In the US, some companies of repairmen, like electricians or plumbers, are licensed and bonded for proficiency. The employees are vetted for criminal backgrounds by the company during the hiring process. I, as the customer, have no way of doing this. If a single person is acting as a repairman with no company, no bonding, and no licensing, then I as the customer am taking a big risk - not just for his proficiency but for his criminality as well.

In the US, some community-based lists of convicted sex offenders are kept, but this is more to find out about sex offender neighbors, not repairmen. These lists are not always complete or accurate.

A few years ago, I decided to not go with an exterminator company because I was very uncomfortable with the person sent to my home. I was afraid of this man for no good reason, and did not want to get him in trouble with his employer in case I was just being foolish. But still I would not have him on the property. I invented a reason to decline the service with the company, leaving the man out of it.

 

[Lb8535]

If the landlord just hired a person to do a short task, like a repair, then the landlord is not an employer but a customer. In the US, I hire all kinds of handymen with no way to run a criminal background check.

Actually you can. There are many companies that primarily service employers that for a fee will run a background check including various levels of criminal activity right down to the level of warrants out for the subject in 50 states and the federal jurisdiction. And now you can buy that same service on the web if you have the time and the funds. Just search on "background check". Not saying that I would bother for a handyman in to do one job. Also my understanding is that the registered sexual offenders list is public access.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

Actually you can. There are many companies that primarily service employers that for a fee will run a background check including various levels of criminal activity right down to the level of warrants out for the subject in 50 states and the federal jurisdiction. And now you can buy that same service on the web if you have the time and the funds. Just search on "background check". Not saying that I would bother for a handyman in to do one job.

Yes, you are right.

I should have said that there is no easy or inexpensive way to do this. A check needs the name, driver's license number, or social security number, to be run. The more information the better the results. Back when I owned rental properties, I paid a 3rd party to run these checks on prospective tenants. They were $35.00 a person 20 years ago. But it did save me some grief. The most charming people are predators.

I would have no easy way to ask a repairman for his driver's license or SS number and expect him to comply. I find it is just easier to hire fully bonded and licensed repair companies, but it does cost more. The older I get, the more I don't want to exert myself if I can just throw money at a problem.

Have you done a background check on a repairperson? How complete was it?

 

[maximus otter]

In the UK we have what are known as “Sara’s Law” and “Clare’s Law”.

Sara’s Law:

“Under the Child Sex Offender Disclosure Scheme (CSODS) the police can tell parents, carers and guardians if someone has a record for child sexual offences.”

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-out-if-a-person-has-a-record-for-child-sexual-offences

Clare’s Law:

“Clare's Law, often known officially as a Domestic Violence Disclosure Scheme or similar, designates several ways for police officers to disclose a person's history of abusive behaviour to those who may be at risk from such behaviour. It is intended to reduce intimate partner violence. Clare's Law is named after Clare Wood, a woman murdered in England by a former domestic partner who police knew to be dangerous.

Clare's Law has two main elements: a 'right to ask', which allows members of the public, including a domestic partner, to request information from the police about a potential abuser; and a 'right to know', which, in certain circumstances, permits police to disclose such information to the public on their own initiative.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clare's_Law

- and:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...domestic-violence-disclosure-scheme-factsheet

- Also the Sex Offender Register:

“In the United Kingdom, the Violent and Sex Offender Register (ViSOR) is a database of records of those required to register with the police under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (the 2003 Act), those jailed for more than 12 months for violent offences, and those thought to be at risk of offending.

Register can be accessed by the police, National Probation Service, and HM Prison Servicepersonnel. Private companies running prisons are also granted access.”

Full details.

maximus otter

 

[catseye]

Although I do have to say that someone having a record for offending wouldn't necessarily have any bearing on their ability to be a handyman, builder, or decorator.

 

[maximus otter]

Although I do have to say that someone having a record for offending wouldn't necessarily have any bearing on their ability to be a handyman, builder, or decorator.

lndeed. A lot of serial killers are extremely adept at digging ponds and concreting patios.

maximus otter

 

[Mythopoeika]

lndeed. A lot of serial killers are extremely adept at digging ponds and concreting patios.

maximus otter

They also have much experience with putting up partition walls, excavation and waste disposal.

 

[Kondoru]

And Archaeologists are great at getting rid of things!

 

[eziofan]

And Archaeologists are great at getting rid of things!

Yes, we are. You have all been warned.......

 

[Lb8535]

Yes, you are right.

I should have said that there is no easy or inexpensive way to do this. A check needs the name, driver's license number, or social security number, to be run. The more information the better the results. Back when I owned rental properties, I paid a 3rd party to run these checks on prospective tenants. They were $35.00 a person 20 years ago. But it did save me some grief. The most charming people are predators.

I would have no easy way to ask a repairman for his driver's license or SS number and expect him to comply. I find it is just easier to hire fully bonded and licensed repair companies, but it does cost more. The older I get, the more I don't want to exert myself if I can just throw money at a problem.

Have you done a background check on a repairperson? How complete was it?

I haven't. I might if it were a big contracting job, but as you say if they are bonded the insurance company has already done it.

 

[ramonmercado]

Looks as if Mr Griggs was responsible for her death. Odd that the police didn't check that garden before.

The remains of a 34-year-old pregnant woman who was murdered by her husband over 20 years ago have been discovered.

Debbie Griggs was reported missing in May 1999 from her home in Deal, Kent, by her husband Andrew Griggs.

Mr Griggs was found guilty of murder and jailed for life in October 2019 following a cold case review.

Following a tip-off, police excavated the garden of a property in St Leonards, Dorset, where the remains, including teeth fragments, were found.

A post-mortem examination confirmed the teeth fragments belonged to Ms Griggs.

Tests will be carried out to establish how Ms Griggs died and how her remains came to be at the property.

Mr Griggs moved to the property in July 2001 following the conclusion of the initial investigation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-63286562

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

Possibly they wouldn't know they were a sex offender, but I think you can do background checks to find out if someone has a criminal record. If someone else knows more than I do, then please correct me.

Locals can know it - either seeing it online or in the local press at the time, or overhearing stuff.

 

[Coal]

Looks as if Mr Griggs was responsible for her death. Odd that the police didn't check that garden before.

The remains of a 34-year-old pregnant woman who was murdered by her husband over 20 years ago have been discovered.

Debbie Griggs was reported missing in May 1999 from her home in Deal, Kent, by her husband Andrew Griggs.

Mr Griggs was found guilty of murder and jailed for life in October 2019 following a cold case review.

Following a tip-off, police excavated the garden of a property in St Leonards, Dorset, where the remains, including teeth fragments, were found.

A post-mortem examination confirmed the teeth fragments belonged to Ms Griggs.

Tests will be carried out to establish how Ms Griggs died and how her remains came to be at the property.

Mr Griggs moved to the property in July 2001 following the conclusion of the initial investigation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-63286562

Given that the chances of parole or early release have been sharply reduced for keeping the location of a murder victim secret, a 'handy tip off' has removed that obstacle for Andrew Griggs. Some might think.

 

[maximus otter]

Looks as if Mr Griggs was responsible for her death. Odd that the police didn't check that garden before.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-63286562

The offender only moved there two years after the crime. lt’s also two or three counties over (reported missing Kent; remains found Dorset).

maximus otter

 

[ramonmercado]

The offender only moved there two years after the crime. lt’s also two or three counties over (reported missing Kent; remains found Dorset).

maximus otter

Still. if they were going to charge him without a body being found they might have bothered to check his garden.

 

[RaM]

The offender only moved there two years after the crime. lt’s also two or three counties over (reported missing Kent; remains found Dorset).

maximus otter

Wonder if he had any connection with the property before he moved there
if not he could have moved the body with him I suppose.