Strange Crimes

[Frideswide]

I can't understand why people wish Muslims a Happy Ramadan, it's outdated and oppressive.

The people I know have the same thoughts about it as I do about Lent. It's good to have a space where your community supports you in quiet refelection and focus on priorities, probably resetting them.

 

[escargot]

It's a hypocritical religion but then most are. There was a time when the Lenten fast was enforced. Fortunately it's a thing of the past.

Not arguing with you, but when and where do you mean? This hasn't happened in Britain in my lifetime.

 

[ramonmercado]

Not arguing with you, but when and where do you mean? This hasn't happened in Britain in my lifetime.

Not in our lifetimes has it been legally enforced but back in the 1960s even there was a lot of pressure on people in Ireland to conform to it, In the 1950s many people fasted between breakfast and their evening meal, just having black tea at lunchtime.

 

[ramonmercado]

The people I know have the same thoughts about it as I do about Lent. It's good to have a space where your community supports you in quiet refelection and focus on priorities, probably resetting them.

No problem if it's voluntary but for many it's not.

 

[Stormkhan]

I wish good feelings to my Muslim friends because I respect them and their feelings.
It costs me nothing, and I don't need to soapbox.

 

[ramonmercado]

I wish good feelings to my Muslim friends because I respect them and their feelings.
It costs me nothing, and I don't need to soapbox.

I wish good feelings to Muslims as well but there's nothing good about going without food, especially if it's enforced by a goon squad. I respect progressive Muslims and Ex-Muslims who campaign against the medieval aspects of Islam.

There was nothing good about Christianity when it controlled peoples lives in the UK & RoI. There's nothing good about Christian fundamentalists who would like to return to those days.

I won't wish anyone a Happy Lent.

My comments came in the context of Muslim Religious Police enforcing the Ramadan fast. See my original post at: https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/strange-crimes.13684/page-180#post-2332301

 

[uair01]

Translated transcript of tis video about a shooting in Zwolle:

Well what happened on Rijnlaan in Zwolle is that the suspect according to the police and justice department
at least the car of the victim's car He drove himself in a black Mercedes and the victim's Volvo
then got out and fired fired several bullets Yes at the Volvo in which the victim was sitting the
victim was hit several times and died yes in the car
cause for the drama seems to be an argument from years years ago between the sons of the victim and the perpetrator and that quarrel
has actually moved to the fathers who then yes each other apparently couldn't eh air and see
there have been several harassments back and forth they say last year a bomb exploded at the house of the present suspect just before that
a window had been broken by a stone going through it.
that was all the work of the current victim that is actually unknown later there was also a riot between the two of them in which the suspect was sentenced for a community service because he had given the current victim knees knees and dirty blows
since then the harassment would have have continued so would the victim also men from his security company at the the present suspect's tailor shop
and yesterday that would have gotten so rigged that he only saw one act apparently saw more to get out of this situation

 

[Floyd]

The people I know have the same thoughts about it as I do about Lent. It's good to have a space where your community supports you in quiet refelection and focus on priorities, probably resetting them.

Exactly Frides.

It's not just about not eating and drinking in daylight hours, it's about contemplation, family, giving to the poor, restraint and trying to be a better person in general.

I know nothing of Nigeria and Islam there, but in (quite moderate) Egypt it really is a great experience, even for the non-muslim visitor.

As far as I am aware, a muslim will not be physically attacked if they don't partake, (and they are able to) but, it may get them some dirty looks and strong words if they don't.

People tend to be a bit grumpy during the day, (and I wouldn't advise going there during Ramadan if you want to see the sights), but once the sun sets, the atmosphere is absolutely fantastic- (like Shabbat).

(The work-day is sometimes made shorter to make the process more accommodating).

Any non-muslims will be invited to join in with them for the Iftar meal, even if they do not know you.

(Most Egyptians have told me that they actually put on weight during Ramadan).

 

[Steven]

The people I know have the same thoughts about it as I do about Lent. It's good to have a space where your community supports you in quiet refelection and focus on priorities, probably resetting them.

That's how it was explained to me and the rest of the congregation: as a voluntary 'stepping back' from the indulgence and frenetic nature of modern life (which, in fairness, seems decent advice at any time). Older catholics told me that the instruction in previous generations was altogether more commanding, to the point that some felt guilty about inadvertently eating a crumb (literally!).

 

[kesavaross]

Dead animals dumped outside school

Shocked staff arrived to find the macabre scene by the gates of Awbridge Primary School in Romsey, Hampshire, on Friday morning.

‘There were pheasants, rabbits, a big hare and also a small deer – possibly a muntjac – that had been decapitated.



'an area known for suspected Satanic activity' apparently.

View attachment 73778

More dead and decapitated creatures dumped outside a shop. I don't know if this is related in some way to the above. This incident happened in Broughton, Hampshire and the one above happened in Romsey, also in Hampshire. The two are 11 miles apart.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...strel-impaled-shops-door-handles-warning.html

 

[ramonmercado]

That's how it was explained to me and the rest of the congregation: as a voluntary 'stepping back' from the indulgence and frenetic nature of modern life (which, in fairness, seems decent advice at any time). Older catholics told me that the instruction in previous generations was altogether more commanding, to the point that some felt guilty about inadvertently eating a crumb (literally!).

Back in the 1950s (he served until 1980) the RC bishop of Cork was Cornelius Lucey. Although conservative in matters of theology and morals he wasn't a bad sort, he moved out of the Bishop's Palace and lived in a bungalow. He often supported striking workers and his sermons on social justice tended to annoy the establishment.

Anyway sometime in the 50s Bishop Lucey was asked if people could have something at lunchtime without "breaking their fast" he said a biscuit with a cup of black tea would be OK. Wily Corkonians began baking enormous biscuits which became known locally as ‘Connie dodgers’.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Anyway sometime in the 50s Bishop Lucey was asked if people could have something at lunchtime without "breaking their fast" he said a biscuit with a cup of black tea. would be OK. Wily Corkonians began baking enormous biscuits which became known locally as ‘Connie dodgers’.

 

[hunck]

More dead and decapitated creatures dumped outside a shop. I don't know if this is related in some way to the above. This incident happened in Broughton, Hampshire and the one above happened in Romsey, also in Hampshire. The two are 11 miles apart.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...strel-impaled-shops-door-handles-warning.html

They’re making a point about something but quite what is a mystery & the targets picked - a school, now a shop, would seem to have no connection.

According to the Metro,

locals blame illegal poachers hunting in the area with links to gangs who run international gambling syndicates, MailOnline reported.

Hard to see how dumping dead animals is related to gambling syndicates..

And Hampshire Chronicle reports that re the school incident

This comes almost four months after a similar incident where 40 animals were dumped on Longstock Road, north of Stockbridge.

 

[Stormkhan]

I can understand the dumping being a 'statement' or even, at a pinch, a threat.
As Hunck says, what's this got to do with gambling? Are they struggling to find a bete noir to blame? While poachers might be completely au fait with messing around with carcasses they'd only do it with a goal in mind. How d'they benefit from this stunt? Drawing more attention?
Is it a stunt to create disgust? I mean, publicly lobbing a jar of red paint over real fur creates disgust and publicity ... but how does it give traction to your cause? If you protest against the death of animals (for instance) then how do you obtain - handle - dump said 'treasured objects and live with your conscience. If the 'protest' is against animal protection groups ... how does such action make the victims look bad?

Frankly, it's weird.
If there's no observable motive to such actions, it could either be mental illness or a badly mistaken sense of humour.

 

[Frideswide]

If there's no observable motive to such actions, it could either be mental illness or a badly mistaken sense of humour.

s'art, innit

 

[Stormkhan]

Ah ... like if a so-called prank goes wrong and no one finds it funny then it becomes a 'social experiment' and we should all move on.
Right.

 

[Mikefule]

...they stole 25 000 of them. Very strange crime.

Yes, there's something about it that doesn't add up.

 

[Mikefule]

I dunno, maybe a few actually do have a happy Ramadan?
They probably love that ol' starvation and hunger thing. Sackcloth and ashes, self-flagellation, etc.

I have a workmate who is a most excellent ambassador for Islam. He is devout, but with a sense of humour about it, and always willing to explain to anyone who asks, but he never tries to impose his views on anyone else. I respect him enormously as a person, even though intellectually, I believe his religious beliefs are nonsense.

This workmate is Bangladeshi, but recently migrated to the UK. He observes Ramadan faithfully. That means getting up early, having a massive breakfast before sunrise, not eating during the day, and then having a decent meal after sunset. At this time of year, that's 12 hours between meals, not unlike the period between tea time and breakfast for the rest of us.

Islam is the 2nd biggest world religion after Christianity. In terms of actual practising believers, it may actually be larger than Christianity. Wikipedia suggests there are 1.6 billion to 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide. It is unwise to generalise over such a big number and such an ethnically, culturally, and geographically diverse group.

 

[brownmane]

The area mentioned is ruled by Sharia law. So somewhat different than other areas that may be Muslim, but not under Sharia law.

I'm adding this section from wiki to clarify what is meant by Sharia law and to reiterate that not all Muslims are ruled by Sharia law:

Over time, on the basis of mentioned studies legal schoolshave emerged, reflecting the preferences of particular societies and governments, as well as Islamic scholars or imams on theoreticaland practical applications of laws and regulations. Although sharia is presented as a form of governance[16] in addition to its other aspects, especially by the contemporary Islamist understanding, some researcherssee the early history of Islam, which was also modelled and exalted by most Muslims; not a period when sharia was dominant, but a kind of "secular Arabic expansion".[17][18]

According to human rights groups, some of the classical sharia practices involve serious violations of basic human rights, gender equality and freedom of expression, and the practices of countries governed by sharia are criticized.[19]The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg (ECtHR) ruled in several cases that Sharia is "incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy".[20][21]Against this, "the concept of human rights" have been categorically excluded by the governments of countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia by claiming that it belongs to secular and western values,[22] and the Cairo conference by the Organisation of Islamic Cooperationdeclares that human rights can only be respected if they are compatible with Islam.[23]

Full link:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

Not all people of the Islamic faith follow Sharia law, it is only very specific countries.

The people I know have the same thoughts about it as I do about Lent. It's good to have a space where your community supports you in quiet refelection and focus on priorities, probably resetting them.

^this^

I know people who are Muslim. This is what Ramadan means for them. It is a time for reflection and in the evening, when breaking the daily fast, for family. They would be hurt to read some of the comments made regarding their celebration of Ramadan.

The people I know have just as much respect towards Christianity as their own religion.

 

[maximus otter]

Man Charged With Vile Acts At Safeway Market​

A supermarket employee pleasured himself onto produce and other unsealed merchandise, according to Colorado police who say that videos of the vile activity were found during a recent search of the man’s residence.

Stephen Masalta, 32, was busted last month on charges that he masturbated outside numerous coffee shops and businesses in the Fort Collins area.

Videos recorded by Masalta, police allege, show him masturbating onto fruits, vegetables, and baked goods, all of which were not commercially sealed, inside the supermarket (pictured below).

The clips have allowed detectives to identify alleged victims, some of whom are believed to be minors. As a result, Masalta has been charged with 16 attempted sexual assault on a child counts.

As the probe of Masalta continues, police anticipate additional charges and more victims being identified.

https://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/revolting/safeway-sick-083271

maximus otter

 

[RaM]

Hampshire seems to be a hot bed for this sort of thing,


https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2...d-after-dead-animals-dumped-at-community-shop

https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/10/deca...ary-school-20256583/?ico=just-in_home_just-in

 

[Druk]

Hampshire seems to be a hot bed for this sort of thing,


https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2...d-after-dead-animals-dumped-at-community-shop

https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/10/deca...ary-school-20256583/?ico=just-in_home_just-in

Same general area.

 

[AnonyJ]

I can understand the dumping being a 'statement' or even, at a pinch, a threat.
As Hunck says, what's this got to do with gambling? Are they struggling to find a bete noir to blame? While poachers might be completely au fait with messing around with carcasses they'd only do it with a goal in mind. How d'they benefit from this stunt? Drawing more attention?
Is it a stunt to create disgust? I mean, publicly lobbing a jar of red paint over real fur creates disgust and publicity ... but how does it give traction to your cause? If you protest against the death of animals (for instance) then how do you obtain - handle - dump said 'treasured objects and live with your conscience. If the 'protest' is against animal protection groups ... how does such action make the victims look bad?

Frankly, it's weird.
If there's no observable motive to such actions, it could either be mental illness or a badly mistaken sense of humour.

Rural crime gangs - hare coursers, deer chasing, badger baiters, dog fighters, cock fighters and similar mostly don't do it for the blood-letting kicks, I think, nor to provide food for their folks.

There is some fairly decent money involved and many of these people are pretty nasty. The money comes from illegal gambling on the outcomes/numbers and the trading of illegally-held species and weapons. They are known for threatening and intimidating behaviour - and often have sidelines in drug dealing. The countryside is the new 'mean streets' in the UK. I think the hares were dumped as a way of warning locals or as a marker for someone's 'manor'.

The gambling used to just be on-site but now fights /hare coursing/animal torture can be live-streamed and apparently it's rather popular both here and in east Asia, especially China where IIRC gambling is illegal outside certain locations but is a hugely popular activity. Some far eastern cultures also have marked differences compared to north Europe when it comes to animal cruelty.

From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-wiltshire-63089248 - October 2022

"As the hare-coursing season gets under way in Wiltshire, officers have revealed how the illegal activity is used for betting in China.

Gangs with dogs and 4x4s chase hares across farmland, and the criminals leave thousands of pounds worth of damage in their wake, and will use intimidation and violence to set up the chase.

The people involved are often also involved in running county lines and modern-day slavery too, these are "serious criminals" and "a very real threat", Wiltshire's Police and Crime Commissioner says.

The chases are often streamed online as bets are placed on which dog will catch the hare..."

 

[Druk]

Rural crime gangs - hare coursers, deer chasing, badger baiters, dog fighters, cock fighters and similar mostly don't do it for the blood-letting kicks, I think, nor to provide food for their folks.

There is some fairly decent money involved and many of these people are pretty nasty. The money comes from illegal gambling on the outcomes/numbers and the trading of illegally-held species and weapons. They are known for threatening and intimidating behaviour - and often have sidelines in drug dealing. The countryside is the new 'mean streets' in the UK. I think the hares were dumped as a way of warning locals or as a marker for someone's 'manor'.

The gambling used to just be on-site but now fights /hare coursing/animal torture can be live-streamed and apparently it's rather popular both here and in east Asia, especially China where IIRC gambling is illegal outside certain locations but is a hugely popular activity. Some far eastern cultures also have marked differences compared to north Europe when it comes to animal cruelty.

I don’t agree with the “especially in China” my kids are half Chinese and I did live there,I have however seen cockfighting and two bulls fighting on TV in Thailand and cockfighting is always on TV in the Philippines where it’s a national sport.

 

[AnonyJ]

I don’t agree with the “especially in China” my kids are half Chinese and I did live there,I have however seen cockfighting and two bulls fighting on TV in Thailand and cockfighting is always on TV in the Philippines where it’s a national sport.

I hear your points, however this kind of gambling is normally concurrent with a VPN 'dark net' browser, or the use of numerous mirror sites so not a public event. I don't think even the CCP can keep up with censoring those?

Apparently 'general' illegal gambling is rampant in mainland China:

https://www.businessinsider.com/inside-the-world-of-illegal-online-gambling-in-china-2022-9

"...Experts told Insider mirror websites are a "common" practice by betting companies in countries that don't allow gambling. "It's very, very common. China has an active online gambling presence," said Ben Lee.

Experts told Insider that it's difficult to quantify the size of the market, but the People's Bank of China estimated that money from betting-related activities flowing out of China was around ¥1 trillion ($54 billion) in 2019, a report by the Asian Racing Federation states..."

As China has the most citizens in eastern Asia, I'd surmise the issue is exponentially bigger there.

The issue of highly monetised animal cruelty has affected my local area in recent years:

https://www.wiltshirelive.co.uk/news/wiltshire-news/salisbury-plain-hare-coursing-being-6576950

"Intelligence reveals gangs are streaming hare coursing on Salisbury Plain as far afield as China.

The organised criminal gangs are streaming the blood sport live on the dark web, to illicit money from people drawn to the inhumane activity.

Hare coursing was a key concern raised by Wiltshire’s farmers to the police crime commissioner on the doorsteps...."

Of course, as always, lone yokels banging on about it didn't make a jot of difference until something very nasty happened in Hampshire in 2024 that finally made it subject to national attention.

 

[Druk]

I hear your points, however this kind of gambling is normally concurrent with a VPN 'dark net' browser, or the use of numerous mirror sites so not a public event. I don't think even the CCP can keep up with censoring those?

Apparently 'general' illegal gambling is rampant in mainland China:

https://www.businessinsider.com/inside-the-world-of-illegal-online-gambling-in-china-2022-9

"...Experts told Insider mirror websites are a "common" practice by betting companies in countries that don't allow gambling. "It's very, very common. China has an active online gambling presence," said Ben Lee.

Experts told Insider that it's difficult to quantify the size of the market, but the People's Bank of China estimated that money from betting-related activities flowing out of China was around ¥1 trillion ($54 billion) in 2019, a report by the Asian Racing Federation states..."

As China has the most citizens in eastern Asia, I'd surmise the issue is exponentially bigger there.

The issue of highly monetised animal cruelty has affected my local area in recent years:

https://www.wiltshirelive.co.uk/news/wiltshire-news/salisbury-plain-hare-coursing-being-6576950

"Intelligence reveals gangs are streaming hare coursing on Salisbury Plain as far afield as China.

The organised criminal gangs are streaming the blood sport live on the dark web, to illicit money from people drawn to the inhumane activity.

Hare coursing was a key concern raised by Wiltshire’s farmers to the police crime commissioner on the doorsteps...."

Of course, as always, lone yokels banging on about it didn't make a jot of difference until something very nasty happened in Hampshire in 2024 that finally made it subject to national attention.

I know hare courses, quite a few who gamble, I have hung around with travellers, I have never once heard of streaming a coursing event to China for gambling, in fact I would say it doesn't happen, if it did it would be from one of the big legal coursing events in Spain for example rather than a couple of lads running their dogs on the fens or Salisbury. I know from personal experience to never believe some of the sensational stories in the press.

 

[brownmane]

I know hare courses, quite a few who gamble, I have hung around with travellers, I have never once heard of streaming a coursing event to China for gambling, in fact I would say it doesn't happen, if it did it would be from one of the big legal coursing events in Spain for example rather than a couple of lads running their dogs on the fens or Salisbury. I know from personal experience to never believe some of the sensational stories in the press.

And the way an article is written gives people the impression that it is all of China who engages in this. I'm sure they could have said "all the way to Canada". It is probably true. One person from either China or Canada might stream this and the statement is still true.

It's not so intriguing if it read "and one person from China was streaming the action".

 

[Druk]

And the way an article is written gives people the impression that it is all of China who engages in this. I'm sure they could have said "all the way to Canada". It is probably true. One person from either China or Canada might stream this and the statement is still true.

It's not so intriguing if it read "and one person from China was streaming the action".

The average UK coursing enthusiast knows little about streaming or the dark web,they want to see their dogs at the peak of physical fitness run one of natures top athletes Lepus europaeus and maybe make a wager with a few mates.If Chinese were streaming coursing to China from Europe it would be for big money and a camera crew from a legal coursing meet not dodgy Dave’s I-phone from a Norfolk or Wiltshire field.

 

[hunck]

Whether or not hare coursing etc goes on, I doubt it has anything to do with these animal dumpings. Coursing may still go on in places but it’s still illegal & suspect those involved are likely to keep it a bit under wraps rather than dump the results outside firstly a school, then a village shop.

A small group with a grudge about something or other is my guess - maybe even just one man..

 

[AnonyJ]

Whether or not hare coursing etc goes on, I doubt it has anything to do with these animal dumpings. Coursing may still go on in places but it’s still illegal & suspect those involved are likely to keep it a bit under wraps rather than dump the results outside firstly a school, then a village shop.

A small group with a grudge about something or other is my guess - maybe even just one man..

A bit more info has cropped up, now that London journos have donned their wellies and come down to deeps of the SW.

Interesting quotes from locals in an article here, from https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...d-birds-of-prey-dumped-outside-hampshire-shop:

"...But why leave the carcasses outside the shop in Broughton, a village of about 1,000 inhabitants renowned locally for the dovecote in the churchyard said to have been gifted by Richard III?

“That’s the puzzle,” said Mike Hensman, treasurer of the shop. “We think it may just be location.” The village is roughly equidistant between the cities of Winchester, Salisbury and Southampton. It is surrounded by open farmland and chalky downland, good hare territory....

....“I don’t think it was a planned, targeted attack,” said Hensman. “Just one of those things that happens in the countryside. We’re a resilient lot. People were shocked but not scared and we’ve rallied round.”

It is not the first time there has been such an incident. Last month, about 25 dead hares, rabbits, pheasants and a decapitated deer were left outside a village primary school in Awbridge, 7 miles from Broughton. Villagers say there were two similar incidents at two other schools that have not made headlines. In January a deer was discovered strung up in a tree in the nearby town of Totton.

One Broughton resident, who asked not to be named for fear of reprisals, said there was undoubtedly a pattern and that the Awbridge incident happened after a farmer confronted hare coursers using his land.

They said that a few days before the bodies were left at the Broughton shop, an attempted burglary in the village was thwarted. “What happens is, the gangs try to intimidate people. The animals are a message: ‘We can do what we want and you can’t catch us.’ There can be a ‘them and us’ situation too. This is a wealthy village. That can make us unpopular.”....

.....In September last year five men were sentenced after an investigation by the specialist country watch team into a group of men who drove on to farmland near Winchester, damaging crops, before hare coursing in a field. Police found the men with lurcher dogs, dead hares and two dead rabbits. Sentences included community orders, fines and bans on driving and owning dogs.

But it is a big patch to police and in January National Farmers Union members met officers in Hampshire to discuss an increase in hare coursing. One Hampshire estate has reported more than a dozen cases to the police since November.

After the incident at Broughton on Friday, Hampshire police found a burnt-out Suzuki Grand Vitara car they believe was connected. They are also examining the shop’s CCTV footage....."