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Swastikas & Disputes About The Swastika Symbol

The problem in banning the swastika is twofold. One, it tends to disguise the Nazi symbolism and diminish our understanding of how hateful it was.

But in contrast, it overlooks that the swastika has many other meanings and indeed sacredness that have nothing to do with the Nazi's.

The whole thing is an indication, I'm afraid, of the European habit - indeed of the Western European habit - of ignoring all other cultures.
 
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ramonmercado said:
Hitler has only got one ball ...

Soldier with a swastika tattooed on his testicle is jailed for 19 months for breaching Austria's Nazi glorification laws​

  • He downed whisky before brother tattooed the banned symbol on his scrotum
  • 29-year-old posted pictures of tattoo online and showed it off to army comrades
  • He was sentenced to 19 months in prison for the glorification of Nazism and illegal firearm possession at the court in the city of Klagenfurt
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-19-months-breaching-Austrias-Nazi-laws.html
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When in training - processing prior to boot camp a man was in line that was covered in Nazi - Hitler tattoos. Meanwhile a sergeant major who at the time served in the war on Germany and supposedly he helped liberate one of those terrible Nazi prison camps. He had the man taken into some back room and I never saw the man again but it sounded like he was receiving a beating.
 
Jim said:
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When in training - processing prior to boot camp a man was in line that was covered in Nazi - Hitler tattoos. Meanwhile a sergeant major who at the time served in the war on Germany and supposedly he helped liberate one of those terrible Nazi prison camps. He had the man taken into some back room and I never saw the man again but it sounded like he was receiving a beating.
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Apart from the tattoos, did he do anything to deserve that?
 
Mythopoeika said:
Apart from the tattoos, did he do anything to deserve that?
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Yes a Nazi sympathizers joining the US Army which lost > 1/4 ,million dead men on the western front. They were the enemy and recall in the this was in the early 70's and anti Nazi sentiments were still strong in the US Army. If I fought and lost numerous comrades in arms against the best trained army in the world then at the end to have liberated a horrible Nazi prison camp, ya he deserved it wrong place wrong time.
 
An issue that’s puzzled me Re: this clockwise vs. anticlockwise swastika business, where it’s claimed Nazi swastikas had one handedness, but the “good swastikas” have the other.
Well surely if the Nazi swastika was used on flags, then it must’ve had both clockwise and anticlockwise forms, depending on which side of the flag you looked at? I don’t think the Nazis made uniquely opaque flags to enable non-mirror printing.
 
Amergin said:
... Well surely if the Nazi swastika was used on flags, then it must’ve had both clockwise and anticlockwise forms, depending on which side of the flag you looked at? I don’t think the Nazis made uniquely opaque flags to enable non-mirror printing.
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No, with one documented exception ...

The naval ensign (small flag flown at the stern when in port to designate nationality) was typically made of translucent material, so the swastika's outline would be visible on both sides. Printing it in the official orientation ("right-facing") on both sides would have the other side's "left-facing" shadow showing through and clashing with the near side's image.

The naval ensign is the only flag documented to have been printed so that the swastika is "right facing" on one side and "left facing" on the other.
Nazi ensigns had a through and through image, so the "left-facing" and "right-facing" version were each present on one side. However, the Nazi flag on land was right-facing on both sides.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Nazi_Germany

Whilst on land the centred Hakenkreuzflagge was used, at sea it was the off-centred version, but there is another difference: the flag on land had the cross on both sides rotating anticlockwise, while the ensign had it printed through (for practical reasons), thus rotating to the pole/mast.
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https://www.fotw.info/flags/de1933_o.html
 
There's still seems to be a gap in the descriptions I've been able to find. As illustrated above, the "right- vs. left-facing" difference is mentioned in relation to naval ensigns (only) versus all flags used on land.

I haven't yet found any source that directly addresses Nazi-era German naval flags other than ensigns. Descriptions can be found for all the other naval flags (jacks, pennants, etc.), but I have yet to see one that mentions whether any of these other naval flags were translucent.
 
The stuff put on youtube by 'Jago Hazzard' (I suspect it isn't his real name) is both entertaining and informative.
A series of short films either about 'Tales from the Tube' (looking at the London Underground generally), or London landmarks, or other related, mainly London, points of interest.
This short film about Upminster Bridge station and it's symbolism is excellent.
 
Cochise said:
The problem in banning the swastika is twofold. One, it tends to disguise the Nazi symbolism and diminish our understanding of how hateful it was.

But in contrast, it overlooks that the swastika has many other meanings and indeed sacredness that have nothing to do with the Nazi's.

The whole thing is an indication, I'm afraid, of the European habit - indeed of the Western European habit - of ignoring all other cultures.
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It's worse than THAT!!!

Swastika isn't even a German word. The Germans called it Hakenkreuz(hooked cross). Swastika is a Sanskrit word used by the ancestors of the people of the nation of India as the name of a religious icon.

So it's not ignoring cultures, but treating one (Nazi) as most important, and folding the others into that.... despite the fact the Nazi idiocy got started less than a century ago and the symbol itself is apparently 12 millennia old. Seriously, some Swastikas found by archaeologists are so old no one has any idea who carved them or why.

Heck some native American cultures used it as compass rose equivalent. Why? hmm... good question. we'll probably never know.
 
Isn't that just an argument for considering the context before banning? I must say getting a swastika on your balls does not sound like glorification.
 
Amergin said:
An issue that’s puzzled me Re: this clockwise vs. anticlockwise swastika business, where it’s claimed Nazi swastikas had one handedness, but the “good swastikas” have the other.
Well surely if the Nazi swastika was used on flags, then it must’ve had both clockwise and anticlockwise forms, depending on which side of the flag you looked at? I don’t think the Nazis made uniquely opaque flags to enable non-mirror printing.
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Well the southern Asia uses(such as Buddhism and Hinduism) actually have two versions. One is good, the other bad(sort of). Thing is.... Well I'll just quote wikipedia.... I have to look up the exact spellings anyways.
The word swastika comes from Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक, romanized: svastika, meaning "conducive to well-being".[7][8] In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (卐) is called swastika, symbolizing surya ("sun"), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (卍) is called sauwastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali.
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Yeah... "swastika" IE the GOOD one was what the Germans used. The the "bad" one is the mirror one they didn't normally use.

Why? well... the swastika(or hakenkreuz in German) was something used in northern Europe as a symbol of good luck(or a symbol of the power of Thor/Zeus/Jupiter). That's WHY the Nazis used it.

Fun fact: as part of being an Asian character of ambiguous origin, Gi in Captain Planet had a Swastika pendant in the first season of the show.
 
A well-known northern California summer camp will remain closed in 2022 due to a dispute over pre-Nazi swastika symbology.
Bay Area Camp Suddenly Closes After Staffers Quit Over Swastika Scandal

A California camp known for being socially and environmentally conscious was abruptly canceled for the entire summer after several staff members quit due to alleged structural racism. ...

“This is the first time in our history that we canceled all Camp programming,” a letter to the Hidden Villa community read Wednesday. “Staffing for Camp has been a challenge over the past several years. In anticipation, we significantly invested in outreach, but still struggled with meeting programmatic needs.”

The letter, which was signed by board chair Peter Hartzell and interim executive director Philip Arca, explained that although the camp had faced staff shortages in recent years, the new wave of resignations came after a disagreement about swastika symbols. ...

Hidden Villa—which is home to a camp, hiking trails, and farm—once belonged to Frank and Josephine Duveneck, according to the camp’s statement. On the couple’s honeymoon to Asia in 1913, they brought back and hung artistic tiles with lotuses and Buddhist symbols, including the swastika, which was later appropriated by the Nazi Party after the first World War to represent white supremacy. ...

“It was brought to the community’s attention that the Buddhist symbols were experienced differently and some individuals experienced harm from their presence on the building. A process to address the issue was identified with Staff and Board,” the letter, which was posted on the camp’s website, read.

According to the letter, the camp held a meeting and decided to remove the symbols from public view on Monday, and they were gone by Tuesday. However, staff members still chose to resign on Sunday—before any action was taken. ...
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FULL STORY: https://www.thedailybeast.com/hidde...mer-after-staffers-quit-over-swastika-scandal
 
ramonmercado said:
People are willfully taking offence at a religious symbol which they know (in this case) has nothing to do with the Nazis.
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True, but it's still going to make a lot of people feel uncomfortable, even if they know the origin of the symbol and accept that these examples have been there since before the Nazis wrecked it.
 
The state of Oregon is in the process of re-naming Swastika Mountain. The news accounts I've found don't mention, much less explain, whether the mountain was named before the swastika's association with Nazism.
Swastika Mountain in Oregon to get new name

The name of a mountain south of Eugene, Oregon, will soon be changed.

The Oregon Geographic Names Board confirmed Wednesday that Swastika Mountain, which refers to a symbol of the German Nazi Party, will be changed, KOIN-TV reported.

A final decision on the new name for the mountain outside Cottage Grove will be made in December.

So far, two name change proposals — Umpqua Mountain and Mount Halo — have been submitted to the Oregon Geographic Names Board. ...
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FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/mountain...-environment-6004e06e4040794cc08bfe5c2cedd707
 
Given the way that text is phrased... I'm guessing no one in the area even cares.

But this source dates it to 1909:
SwastikaOregonPOSite.jpg
 
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The TV news, prompted by a statement by a state senator, is carrying on about "antisemitic vandalism" in bathroom stalls in a county park. Said vandalism consists entirely of swastikas scratched into things like toilet paper dispensers. No mention is made of the possibility that they were done for religious or magickal purposes unrelated to Nazism, by naive people with some interest in Nazis who are not specifically (or at least exclusively) antisemitic, or - as was common when I was young - by some stupid kids just screwing around.
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Edit: I corrected "state park" to "county park".
 
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ChasFink said:
The TV news, prompted by a statement by a state senator, is carrying on about "antisemitic vandalism" in bathroom stalls in a county park. Said vandalism consists entirely of swastikas scratched into things like toilet paper dispensers. No mention is made of the possibility that they were done for religious or magickal purposes unrelated to Nazism, by naive people with some interest in Nazis who are not specifically (or at least exclusively) antisemitic, or - as was common when I was young - by some stupid kids just screwing around.
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Edit: I corrected "state park" to "county park".
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do ANY pictures exist at all?
 
marhawkman said:
hmmm looks like a toilet paper dispenser. also the article says "multiple".... with only one example pictured.
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Let's be fair. It looks like two different toilet paper dispensers. A news story I just found says it was a total of three swastikas.

I certainly understand speaking out against antisemitism and Nazim, and while not prevalent, those particular forms of hate are not unknown in Nassau County. Nonetheless, freaking out over three small swastikas in the toilets without knowing the motivation of the culprit seems a bit much.
 
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