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Anyone else now filled with the urge to go to the South Downs?

I've never visited the area, but having seen the OS map and the views, I want to go! So, Quercus, if nothing else comes of this, you've done a great deal for the tourist industry.
 
http://www.sussexarch.org.uk/saaf/blackdog.html

Just south-east Ditchling is a spur of the Downs called 'Blackdog Hill' which is haunted by the ghost of a headless black dog. It is interesting to note the path that runs diagonally over the hill points directly towards Westmeston Church and may be the remains of an old 'Corpse Way' or 'Coffin Road' along which the dead were taken along a dead straight line to be buried. The dog is seen by many cultures as a protector of the dead. The dog has been seen on the road from Ditchling to Westmeston which curves around the hill. Nearby is the earthworks of Ditchling Beacon hillfort where as late as 1933, a wild hunt has been heard flying overhead with the sound of horses hooves and yapping dogs. This was a common tale told by the shepherds who worked on this area of the downs, who would say their sheepdogs would crouch down and look upwards wimpering because the witch-hounds were passing overhead. The shepherds are all gone, but the tale remains. Another version of the tale says the phenomenon is actually a phantom army which passes over the area on May 24th to May 26th and leaves a nasty smell as it passes.
 
Anyone else now filled with the urge to go to the South Downs?

I've never visited the area, but having seen the OS map and the views, I want to go! So, Quercus, if nothing else comes of this, you've done a great deal for the tourist industry.
The South Downs are great!
 
Reading a bit more of the article on Ditchling, Ditchling Beacon is haunted by the Wild Hunt. I reckon Quercus saw old Grim himself!
Yes, that particular piece of lore was about the only thing I could find about the Beacon itself - sounds a bit hairy! That does open up a fair few possibilities for heightened Forteana, it's true.

If we look at the Wikipedia entry on Germanic folklore of the Wild Hunt, it looks like I may have got off lightly...
"The majority of the tales deal with some person encountering the Wild Hunt. If this person stands up against the hunters, he will be punished. If he helps the hunt, he will be awarded money, gold or, most often, a leg of a slain animal or human, which is often cursed in a way that makes it impossible to be rid of it. In this case, the person has to find a priest or magician able to ban it, or trick the Wild Hunt into taking the leg back by asking for salt, which the hunt can not deliver. In many versions, a person staying right in the middle of the road during the encounter is safe."

I'd not have been best pleased if I'd offered the figure a lift, and been rewarded with an accursed human leg that couldn't be shaken off... maybe I was ok because I parked up in the middle of the road, though?

Some other traditions maintain that individuals encountering The Wild Hunt risk being swept up and carried away with them... in which case, they may have left me alone because I would have undermined their whole vibe.

Can you even imagine how lame Henry d'Angely's account of an encounter with the Wild Hunt would have sounded if I'd been somehow involved?
Many men both saw and heard a great number of huntsmen hunting. The huntsmen were black, huge, and hideous, and rode on black horses and on black he-goats, and their hounds were jet black, with eyes like saucers, and horrible. Oh, except one. He was in a clapped-out Ford Escort with mismatched wheeltrims, and still wearing his work uniform.

Lucky escape for everyone concerned, hey?
 
''He was in a clapped-out Ford Escort with mismatched wheeltrims, and still wearing his work uniform'' -and crapping himself.
 
Going back to the original description:

High leather boots, a long, dark coat and a wide-brimmed hat

This sounds like a rather good description of Woden, leader of the Wild Hunt... He must have become separated from the rest of his party... A lucky escape indeed!
 
Anyone else now filled with the urge to go to the South Downs?

I've never visited the area, but having seen the OS map and the views, I want to go! So, Quercus, if nothing else comes of this, you've done a great deal for the tourist industry.

I live on the Downs! Maybe me and Simon can organise a field trip.
 
Funny, I haven't been back to Sussex since I moved away a few months after this happened (but in no way because of this!) - would definitely like to visit again.

The view from Devil's Dyke out over the Weald, a few miles west of Ditchling, is truly outstanding.
 
Going back to the original description:

High leather boots, a long, dark coat and a wide-brimmed hat

This sounds like a rather good description of Woden, leader of the Wild Hunt... He must have become separated from the rest of his party... A lucky escape indeed!
Although, apart from the 'faceless' bit, this could also fit the description of 80% of the blokes in my part of the world, especially out looking for their dog on a wet night.
 
I walked across Ditchling Beacon a few days ago. I fully had it in my head to walk down to where Quercus had his/her encounter and take some photos. Unfortunately, I managed to walk straight across the Beacon without realising I was on it, and didn't realise I had passed it until I was a good half mile away and disinclined to walk back. Most unusual for me to do that, I usually know exactly where I am!
 
I walked across Ditchling Beacon a few days ago. I fully had it in my head to walk down to where Quercus had his/her encounter and take some photos. Unfortunately, I managed to walk straight across the Beacon without realising I was on it, and didn't realise I had passed it until I was a good half mile away and disinclined to walk back. Most unusual for me to do that, I usually know exactly where I am!
Well, we look forward to some photos one day soon!
 
I walked across Ditchling Beacon a few days ago. I fully had it in my head to walk down to where Quercus had his/her encounter and take some photos. Unfortunately, I managed to walk straight across the Beacon without realising I was on it, and didn't realise I had passed it until I was a good half mile away and disinclined to walk back. Most unusual for me to do that, I usually know exactly where I am!
Perhaps you were Glamoured, Simon. You can't see things you're not supposed to see :)
 
Leafing through Sean Tudor's The Ghosts of Blue Bell Hill book this morning jogged my memory to post this. We had some discussion earlier in the thread regarding a parish boundary that is marked on the OS map. Sean Tudor made some interesting observations in his book, relevant to this thread:
Particular places in the outlying landscape were said to be especially haunted by these spectres. Lonely roads and crossroads, bridges and fords, cemeteries, hills, caves, woodlands, water courses and sea coasts, plus moors and fens, stiles and gateways, and notional features such as district boundaries (e.g. parish or county lines) - all were places where these night-walking phantoms might be encountered, and which the superstitious would hurry past after dark. -p.331.
The full demarcation of a boundary is usually a notional construct, an invisible line on the earth that we make by agreement of minds and plot onto maps, but rarely (where it is not a natural feature) is it physically defined in the environment itself... -p.333.
A fascinating aspect of road ghost encounters, and one that provides an important clue in our understanding, is their behaviour in relation even to these invisible boundaries. Not infrequently the ghost is encountered at or is respectful of a parish or county border. What makes these particularly impressive is that this fact is rarely recognised by the witnesses themselves. -p.333.
He then goes on to give three examples, that of the figure of a tall man that blocked the path of a vehicle on the A12 near Hopton, Norfolk in November 1981, where the Suffolk-Norfolk border crosses the road; then a figure of a girl appearing in front of a car at Six Hills, Leicestershire, where many boundaries come together; and most interestingly a strange blob that appeared at One Tree Hill in Essex. It was an indescribable shape that bobbed along towards a church in 2003. A similar apparition had been seen in 1969 less than a mile to the east, came down the A13 and disappeared towards the Fobbing rail crossing. In this case, "the boundary between Thurrock Unitary Authority and the county of Essex touches the road at the One Tree Hill location. Remarkably, this same boundary crosses the A13 at Five Bells and the railway level crossing along the line of High Street, Fobbing. In other words, the 'ghost' ... deflected southward at the invisible Thurrock boundary and followed it toward the railway line." (pp. 334-5.)

With this in mind, and referring back to Quercus' posts, it seems that the figure was likely seen where the parish boundary follows the road for about 200m between two boundary stones. This appears to be the boundary between Ditchling parish and Westmeston parish.
 
Leafing through Sean Tudor's The Ghosts of Blue Bell Hill book this morning jogged my memory to post this. We had some discussion earlier in the thread regarding a parish boundary that is marked on the OS map. Sean Tudor made some interesting observations in his book, relevant to this thread:



He then goes on to give three examples, that of the figure of a tall man that blocked the path of a vehicle on the A12 near Hopton, Norfolk in November 1981, where the Suffolk-Norfolk border crosses the road; then a figure of a girl appearing in front of a car at Six Hills, Leicestershire, where many boundaries come together; and most interestingly a strange blob that appeared at One Tree Hill in Essex. It was an indescribable shape that bobbed along towards a church in 2003. A similar apparition had been seen in 1969 less than a mile to the east, came down the A13 and disappeared towards the Fobbing rail crossing. In this case, "the boundary between Thurrock Unitary Authority and the county of Essex touches the road at the One Tree Hill location. Remarkably, this same boundary crosses the A13 at Five Bells and the railway level crossing along the line of High Street, Fobbing. In other words, the 'ghost' ... deflected southward at the invisible Thurrock boundary and followed it toward the railway line." (pp. 334-5.)

With this in mind, and referring back to Quercus' posts, it seems that the figure was likely seen where the parish boundary follows the road for about 200m between two boundary stones. This appears to be the boundary between Ditchling parish and Westmeston parish.

Assuming the existence of ghosts and similar phenomena, this opens the door to several interesting lines of inquiry:

a) Are ghosts responsive to boundaries, physical or imaginary, created by humans?

b) If so, how do they perceive the boundary of, say, a church parish? Could it perhaps relate to the old practice of "beating the bounds", where parishioners would circumambulate the parish border annually, in a group?

c) If (b), then does that ritual somehow imbue that route with spiritual significance/energy?

d) Are ghosts territorial? I've heard knowledgeable people say that, when out fox shooting, they can lure a fox to a certain point and no farther. They believe that the fox has reached the border of another fox's territory, and is loath to trespass onto it. Do ghosts behave the same way?

Fascinating.

maximus otter
 
Leafing through Sean Tudor's The Ghosts of Blue Bell Hill book this morning jogged my memory to post this. We had some discussion earlier in the thread regarding a parish boundary that is marked on the OS map. Sean Tudor made some interesting observations in his book, relevant to this thread:



He then goes on to give three examples, that of the figure of a tall man that blocked the path of a vehicle on the A12 near Hopton, Norfolk in November 1981, where the Suffolk-Norfolk border crosses the road; then a figure of a girl appearing in front of a car at Six Hills, Leicestershire, where many boundaries come together; and most interestingly a strange blob that appeared at One Tree Hill in Essex. It was an indescribable shape that bobbed along towards a church in 2003. A similar apparition had been seen in 1969 less than a mile to the east, came down the A13 and disappeared towards the Fobbing rail crossing. In this case, "the boundary between Thurrock Unitary Authority and the county of Essex touches the road at the One Tree Hill location. Remarkably, this same boundary crosses the A13 at Five Bells and the railway level crossing along the line of High Street, Fobbing. In other words, the 'ghost' ... deflected southward at the invisible Thurrock boundary and followed it toward the railway line." (pp. 334-5.)

With this in mind, and referring back to Quercus' posts, it seems that the figure was likely seen where the parish boundary follows the road for about 200m between two boundary stones. This appears to be the boundary between Ditchling parish and Westmeston parish.
So we're saying here;
ditchling.png
 
Does anyone know how parish boundaries are decided?

I tried to google it but as usual now with google, getting an answer doesn't seem to happen.
 
Many parish boundaries are ancient, dating back to Saxon landholdings (mid 7th to late 9th centuries AD), or even earlier. Some of them may be even older, and I have a feeling that a few boundaries have been argued to date back into the Romano-British period or earlier, but don't take my word on that, it is half-remembered and I would have to do some digging.
 
Does anyone know how parish boundaries are decided?

I tried to google it but as usual now with google, getting an answer doesn't seem to happen.
It's bad enough working out county boudaries sometimes. A few days ago I was following the Cheshire/Shropshire border near me and there are all sorts of strange right angles and diversions that often don't appear to follow anything in particular;
chsh.png
 
It's bad enough working out county boudaries sometimes. A few days ago I was following the Cheshire/Shropshire border near me and there are all sorts of strange right angles and diversions that often don't appear to follow anything in particular;
View attachment 58158
It's interesting that the field boundaries follow the county border though - I took a look at the OS map and there is no inkling of ancient features that might account for this zig-zag. I sense some long-forgotten haggling for land by long-dead lords (alright, I'll give you that little corner for your sheep/wooden watchtower/cabbages but you must give me an equal sized area as recompense).
 
It's interesting that the field boundaries follow the county border though - I took a look at the OS map and there is no inkling of ancient features that might account for this zig-zag. I sense some long-forgotten haggling for land by long-dead lords (alright, I'll give you that little corner for your sheep/wooden watchtower/cabbages but you must give me an equal sized area as recompense).
Yes I thought something similar, but when you consider there are hundreds of these strange deviations, it makes you wonder how long it took them to get all the info down on paper and into the records.
 
It's interesting that the field boundaries follow the county border though - I took a look at the OS map and there is no inkling of ancient features that might account for this zig-zag. I sense some long-forgotten haggling for land by long-dead lords (alright, I'll give you that little corner for your sheep/wooden watchtower/cabbages but you must give me an equal sized area as recompense).
As for the one next to it- heaven knows;
z.png
 
It's interesting that the field boundaries follow the county border…

Or might it be the other way round? That fields formed parts of estates, estates part of Hundreds/wapentakes, and they part of counties; so that the county boundary might simply be the east edge of Hrothgar’s field, which in its turn ended there simply because there was a boulder too large to move, or a bog which could neither be ploughed nor drained.

maximus otter
 
What an interesting encounter... Very well described Quercus.

I'm just listening to one of my fave YouTube channels back catalogue of paranormal vids. This is termed "mannequin people" , faceless entities. Made me think of this thread and your terrifying encounter. Your not alone according to this vid, however most of these entities are not clothed.

Ps - is your username after the men's scent by Penhaligons .? Querqcus.?

!!! They credit some sources! Oh I'm all for this. I'm still salty about videos lifting things without credit (and getting some of it wrong to boot).
 
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