The Enfield Poltergeist

oldrover

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Wouldn't one of the sisters have said something by now..?
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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

Think we're both rather good at skirting around what could be said to be honest CJ

That said I didn't get where I am today skirting around issues.. :)

Is there a school of thought that something 'dodgy' as in 'dodgy' was going on there? If so I don't believe that, I see no evidence for it. And there's more than enough motive for both men to have stayed involved. Janet Grosse is Maurice's motivation, and cash I believe was GLP's. I think it was just dodgy as in exploitative and irresponsible.
 

oldrover

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And men too. Grown men suddenly being a part of the household and being in thrall to two disturbed adolescent girls. Wasn't it Grosse who even moved in with them? All very dodgy in my opinion.

It was Playfair (in my opinion not a text book example of nominative determinism) who moved in I think? I used to be very up on this before becoming a monotone hum on the thylacine, now I've forgotten loads.

Either way, two grown men as you say, turning up in a vulnerable household and reinforcing the families', and extended families' nonsense. These days the same papers that exploited this would be screaming for a lynch mob. I wonder how they reacted to the poor little kid who was murdered for suspected witchcraft a few years back. I'd imagine they were full of indignation about the absurdity of such beliefs. But again, society has grown up in some ways since then.
 

cpm82

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It was Playfair (in my opinion not a text book example of nominative determinism) who moved in I think? I used to be very up on this before becoming a monotone hum on the thylacine, now I've forgotten loads.

Either way, two grown men as you say, turning up in a vulnerable household and reinforcing the families', and extended families' nonsense. These days the same papers that exploited this would be screaming for a lynch mob. I wonder how they reacted to the poor little kid who was murdered for suspected witchcraft a few years back. I'd imagine they were full of indignation about the absurdity of such beliefs. But again, society has grown up in some ways since then.

Psychological exploitation
 

oldrover

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I think emotional in Grosse's case, and you can sort of understand him in a way that doesn't excuse what he did, and career advancement in the case of Playfair, but then perhaps GLP really did believe the nonsense he was writing?
 

cpm82

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I think emotional in Grosse's case, and you can sort of understand him in a way that doesn't excuse what he did, and career advancement in the case of Playfair, but then perhaps GLP really did believe the nonsense he was writing?

There was a short segment of a documentary from 1997 that featured Grosse around how he got into the paranormal line of work as well as a brief overview of the Enfield case. It was quite moving as it included home videos of him and his family, including what must be the only public media of his daughter Janet that was killed around the same time. It's on Youtube if anyone is interested.

Also tried to find further information about Janet's brother Johnny who passed away soon after the case. Unfortunately there's next to nothing out there. He isn't even mentioned in the film The Conjuring 2.

I admit I'm quite morbid.
 

oldrover

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There was a short segment of a documentary from 1997 that featured Grosse around how he got into the paranormal line of work as well as a brief overview of the Enfield case. It was quite moving as it included home videos of him and his family, including what must be the only public media of his daughter Janet that was killed around the same time. It's on Youtube if anyone is interested.

Also tried to find further information about Janet's brother Johnny who passed away soon after the case. Unfortunately there's next to nothing out there. He isn't even mentioned in the film The Conjuring 2.

I admit I'm quite morbid.

You have to be at least a bit morbid to have an interest in the Enfield case I'd say.

I've no idea what the Grosse family went through after loosing their Janet, and it's hard not to be sympathetic to the idea of a man trying to convince himself that she was still there in some way, which is what I believe motivated Grosse. It's also understandable that he might have felt the need to 'help' another Janet who was obviously in trouble. It's hard to stay angry at Grosse, but then you have to think of what an unhealthy environment he helped create.

http://ghostwatch.net//components/com_djclassifieds/images/item/20_image4_thb.jpg

I'm not sure what the back story to this is now, but by Christ things had clearly got out of hand by this point.

Janet at 11, was in charge of that house. Her mother wasn't coping, was in all likelihood very inclined to be deferential toward the middle class men who invaded her house and started to 'define' the phenomena. The extended family and neighbours don't sound too sharp either. Unlike Janet who clearly was extremely intelligent. It's worth asking though what outlet for that intelligence was available to a girl like Janet in the circumstances of that time and place.

Look at this image,

http://www.elcomercio.com/files/content_thumbnail/uploads/2016/06/10/575b46e3ec900.jpeg

I can't recall now who the man in the photo is, but he's either neighbour or relative, and it's easy to see that he was either very stupid, or in on it, or both (my guess) as there's no doubt whatsoever that Janet's arm there is under tension and is supporting her weight, yet she's supposed to be asleep. I don't think Glp and Grosse's motives were more than self interest, conscious or otherwise, but you do wonder about the rest of the set up.

What I think makes the Enfield business so important is nothing to do with any paranormal agency, but that it shows how dangerous these cases can be if left to escalate under the 'supervision' of totally unqualified experts. And it also shows how in the late 70's kids like Janet were essentially far game for the likes of Grosse, Playfair, the SPR, and the media. No one, put her interests first.
 

Coastaljames

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Is there a school of thought that something 'dodgy' as in 'dodgy' was going on there? If so I don't believe that, I see no evidence for it.

Maybe I'm a bit slow. I am not implying that there was any physical sexual acts occurring. And I now you're not either Rover.

I was implying that a very disturbed family without a male presence had men thrust (pun intended) into the household by the attention-seeking antics of two very disturbed adolescent girls. I cannot but help that this deepened an already pretty odd state of affairs.


Excellent posts all of the above.
 

oldrover

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Maybe I'm a bit slow. I am not implying that there was any physical sexual acts occurring. And I now you're not either Rover.

I was implying that a very disturbed family without a male presence had men thrust (pun intended) into the household by the attention-seeking antics of two very disturbed adolescent girls. I cannot but help that this deepened an already pretty odd state of affairs.


Excellent posts all of the above.

I agree with that entirely. It'd be easy to imply that the Hodgson home was dysfunctional, so it might come across as a cheap shot, but I am going to say it anyway. I think it was a house in crises.
 
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sherbetbizarre

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Look at this image,

http://www.elcomercio.com/files/content_thumbnail/uploads/2016/06/10/575b46e3ec900.jpeg

I can't recall now who the man in the photo is, but he's either neighbour or relative, and it's easy to see that he was either very stupid, or in on it, or both (my guess) as there's no doubt whatsoever that Janet's arm there is under tension and is supporting her weight, yet she's supposed to be asleep.
IIRC that's the uncle, and they've restaged how Janet was supposedly found that morning...
 

oldrover

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IIRC that's the uncle, and they've restaged how Janet was supposedly found that morning...

Well, in my copy of 'This House is Haunted' it says, 'Janet apparently sound asleep, as she was found on more than one occasion perched on top of the radio set, once after relieving a valium injection, John Burcombe (right) is about to lift her down. (Photo: Graham Moriris).

So, no. I don't think the origins of this photo were supposed to be a re-staging. They were part of the circus. It's interesting to speculate who, if anyone, gave Janet the Valium injection. If it did happen, that would have to have been a doctor, so why was a medical professional concerned enough about Janet's condition to administer a sedative? Really grubby.
 

Swifty

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I'd really like to look around the house as it is today .. no doubt whatever was (or wasn't) going on back then has long gone ..
 

titch

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Somewhere miles back in this thread I posted a link from the local paper, the person living in the house reported minor strange happenings.

I really can't agree the GLP and MG had any dodgy motives, the family needed help and they helped. Other people where asked to help and didn't. They may have made the strange happenings last longer by showing an interest in it, and this encouraged the later events where the girls where hoaxing, but I think they acted for the best of motives.

It's really unfairly to criticise GLP for writing a book, he is a writer after all, after a long falling out with George Orwell I am about read homage to catalonia, should I not bother because he is a writer?
 

Swifty

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Enchanting woman. I'm mesmerized by her red hair, body and cleavage.
As well as being very attractive, she's also a very talented producer (and also married to Johnathon Ross) .. she's the talent behind the film Kick Ass for starters :cool:. Ding Dong.
 

Vardoger

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As well as being very attractive, she's also a very talented producer (and also married to Johnathon Ross) .. she's the talent behind the film Kick Ass for starters :cool:. Ding Dong.
 

Roland Deschain

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I'd say that in front of the camera she's awqward and would turn people off the subject.

She should stick to her adolesencent movies, and Mr Ross should pray thanks to whatever God he may favour for his wife.
 

Spudrick68

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I am currently reading 'This house Is Haunted' (one of hundreds i have got round to reading). Maybe this is a naive thought or perhaps it has been mooted before but hey ho. Like in many poltergeist cases phenomenon only allegedly happens when not witnessed. I believe in physics that it is stated that atoms only form a pattern once observed. Could it be that if there are discarnate entities that they can only effect anti matter? Perhaps that is why things only happen when not obeserved, like an opposite world. It may be a stupid thought but I thought about if before.
 

oldrover

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I am currently reading 'This house Is Haunted' (one of hundreds i have got round to reading). Maybe this is a naive thought or perhaps it has been mooted before but hey ho. Like in many poltergeist cases phenomenon only allegedly happens when not witnessed. I believe in physics that it is stated that atoms only form a pattern once observed. Could it be that if there are discarnate entities that they can only effect anti matter? Perhaps that is why things only happen when not obeserved, like an opposite world. It may be a stupid thought but I thought about if before.

Well, I wouldn't really know about that, but having just found my copy again yesterday, I have to say that I think there is definitely a more mundane explanation on the table. As in, the phenomena being frequently listed as occuring when the girls were unobserved.

The question for me though is how many, if any occurred when they were. The circumstances around them interest me.
 

Shadowsot

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I am currently reading 'This house Is Haunted' (one of hundreds i have got round to reading). Maybe this is a naive thought or perhaps it has been mooted before but hey ho. Like in many poltergeist cases phenomenon only allegedly happens when not witnessed. I believe in physics that it is stated that atoms only form a pattern once observed. Could it be that if there are discarnate entities that they can only effect anti matter? Perhaps that is why things only happen when not obeserved, like an opposite world. It may be a stupid thought but I thought about if before.
Eh, anti matter tend to not get along well with matter. Sort of explodes.
The observer effect occurs at the quantum level, well below even atoms. And is sort of misunderstood to favor supernatural claims.
Anytime the girls were unobserved something weird happened, to me is more indication of what happens when children are left unobserved.
 

titch

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But but but there where lots of times the children where under observation and things still happened, tables turning over, Chairs flipping and teapots rising in the air to name just a few
 

Spudrick68

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I understand that someone who understands the mathematics of quantum physics may well read my plebian musings with distain. :) But as stated, I doubt that every single case of psychokinesis and such like to be a case of fraud. For me personally, the idea that every example is human fraud is just as silly as believing that every reported case of the 'supernatural' to be totally true and attbributable (is that a word?) to the dead.
 

Shadowsot

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I understand that someone who understands the mathematics of quantum physics may well read my plebian musings with distain. :) But as stated, I doubt that every single case of psychokinesis and such like to be a case of fraud. For me personally, the idea that every example is human fraud is just as silly as believing that every reported case of the 'supernatural' to be totally true and attbributable (is that a word?) to the dead.
By that logic, someone really is trying to give away billions and just needs you to make a small deposit...
 

Shadowsot

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But but but there where lots of times the children where under observation and things still happened, tables turning over, Chairs flipping and teapots rising in the air to name just a few
We have claims yes. But when people with cameras and recording equipment show up what happens to it?
 

titch

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We have claims yes. But when people with cameras and recording equipment show up what happens to it?
They got lots of evidence, from the dodgy, Janet "levitating" photos to the interesting,the pictures of the curtains twisting while both girls are in bed, to the compelling, the knocks that have been tested and show a totally different sound pattern to human knocks.
 
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