The Madeleine McCann Disappearance

escargot

Beloved of Ra
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
24,150
Likes
17,501
Points
309
That sounds like the good news...



I like the terminology. Still this is the bad news right?



Did nobody seriously consider a work-around for childrens' homes where this is an issue? You would think that bureaucrats might have seen the merit of a separate document for "frequent fliers" that put them on a register, and took them off once they reached their majority? I can see some merit in not restraining them, I mean, many childrens' homes have been havens for pedophiles after all, plus, unless the kids are actually out doing crimes, they aren't actually criminals and shouldn't be detained. Of course that doesn't make a bobby's job any easier as you point out, and law enforcement end up carrying the can for Child Services, which is a waste of everybody's time and resources. I am interested to hear how you would have done a work-around the issue M.O.?


It sounds like frequent fliers went straight to the bottom of the to-do pile, amirite?

'Frequent fliers' certainly did NOT go 'straight to the bottom of the to-do pile'. Where did you get that idea? We'd notify the police who'd would look out for them and usually bring them back.

Some were determined to get as far away as possible and one or two went missing for good, not dead but able to lie low until they reached about 18 and a half and so not Children's Services' responsibility any more. We'd hear this through the grapevine.

unless the kids are actually out doing crimes, they aren't actually criminals and shouldn't be detained
There are several types of children's homes. Some are 'secure', where they are kept on site for various reasons. I usually worked on 'open' sites where children were free to come and go within age-appropriate limits as a child at home would be, eg to see friends in town or go to the cinema or whatever. They weren't prisoners whatever the reason for their stay.

However, staff are in loco parentis and need to know where the children are. If the child wasn't where they were supposed to be they were legally missing. Same with a child who's living with their own parents. Troubled teenagers are vulnerable to all sorts of dangers and temptations and are as entitled as anyone else to be cared about and have their absence noted.
 

Swifty

doesn't negotiate with terriers
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Messages
23,925
Likes
27,408
Points
284
'Frequent fliers' certainly did NOT go 'straight to the bottom of the to-do pile'. Where did you get that idea? We'd notify the police who'd would look out for them and usually bring them back.

Some were determined to get as far away as possible and one or two went missing for good, not dead but able to lie low until they reached about 18 and a half and so not Children's Services' responsibility any more. We'd hear this through the grapevine.



There are several types of children's homes. Some are 'secure', where they are kept on site for various reasons. I usually worked on 'open' sites where children were free to come and go within age-appropriate limits as a child at home would be, eg to see friends in town or go to the cinema or whatever. They weren't prisoners whatever the reason for their stay.

However, staff are in loco parentis and need to know where the children are. If the child wasn't where they were supposed to be they were legally missing. Same with a child who's living with their own parents. Troubled teenagers are vulnerable to all sorts of dangers and temptations and are as entitled as anyone else to be cared about and have their absence noted.
I used to be a student support assistant at a secure school, I stopped one girl from climbing over the fence by singing a rude song about the headmistress to her while she was still climbing, another lad at a different place but still under the same organisation's care was a 'runner' in that he'd suddenly start running, he somehow managed to steal one of the staff member's cars once but drove it into a shallow pond (shallow enough that he wasn't in much danger).

The fence climbing girl attacked me on my first day there by jumping on me and scratching my face, I hadn't been restraint trained yet so other staff had to pull her off me.
 
Last edited:

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
1,442
Likes
1,894
Points
154
'Frequent fliers' certainly did NOT go 'straight to the bottom of the to-do pile'. Where did you get that idea? We'd notify the police who'd would look out for them and usually bring them back.
No, I meant Police to-do piles, not social worker to-do piles. For example, if you know there's a 99.9% chance that the kids are just out for the evening without permission, which they don't strictly need, should a police officer seriously make it a priority?

I know I used to routinely slip parental supervision and go to parties and punk and metal gigs as a teen. I had a dummy with a wig in my bed that looked like my hair, and left a note attached to it explaining where I had gone, just in case my cover got blown or I didn't make it home for some reason. When I was 18 my parents eventually caught on, and asked me how long I had been doing it, and I said 4 years, and they said, oh well, never mind then, you obviously know what you're doing by now; just don't get in trouble. To which I said, I know you feel you have to worry, but you seriously don't have to. Of course the whole experience of having no authoritarian parental challenge to my youthful rebellion did me irreparable psychological damage and led me into the depraved life of an academic book addict. I have never forgiven or forgotten their cruel acquiescence to my budding adulthood.
 
Last edited:

escargot

Beloved of Ra
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
24,150
Likes
17,501
Points
309
No, I meant Police to-do piles, not social worker to-do piles. For example, if you know there's a 99.9% chance that the kids are just out for the evening without permission, which they don't strictly need, should a police officer seriously make it a priority?
These weren't just kids slipping out to swig cider on the playing fields with their mates. Most had been abused, some quite horribly, and were in care to get them away from that situation. We'd report their absence as our legal duty demanded and the police would look out for them trying to hitch-hike and offer them a safe lift back. Most would accept gratefully, having made their little gesture of independence, and would usually go straight to bed.

It wasn't about permission. The idea was to get them to understand that it was dangerous to be out at night without anyone knowing where they were. A lot thought they were street-smart which they certainly were not.

The local police were spot-on. This was many years ago and we all know a lot more now than we did then (grooming gangs etc) but I couldn't fault the way the police dealt with teenagers who ran off.
 

Frideswide

Fortea Morgana :)
Staff member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
8,517
Likes
8,538
Points
279
'Frequent fliers' certainly did NOT go 'straight to the bottom of the to-do pile'. Where did you get that idea? We'd notify the police who'd would look out for them and usually bring them back.
quite right! the variations on supported living I have to do with do NOT take a shrug-and-see attitude.
 

INT21

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
4,307
Likes
2,856
Points
154
..Dunno if it's genuine, could be 'shopped, but even if it's 100% genuine I'm not stupid enough to post in on'ere! ..

There is comment about this sticker all over the place. Google it. It appears to be a genuine case of thoughtlessness.

INT21.
 

escargot

Beloved of Ra
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
24,150
Likes
17,501
Points
309
..Dunno if it's genuine, could be 'shopped, but even if it's 100% genuine I'm not stupid enough to post in on'ere! ..

There is comment about this sticker all over the place. Google it. It appears to be a genuine case of thoughtlessness.

INT21.
I have seen similar bookshop sale stickers, possibly in The Works. Not interested enough to google it.
 

Booo

Fresh Blood
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
9
Likes
17
Points
3
There is a Portuguese documentary
(The Truth of the Lie which people have probably heard of) which has been banned. It is the Portuguese policeman who investigated the crime and disappearance, all of his evidence was proved (in the documentary) pointing to the parents. I'd recommend it. I agree with others, the only reason it got such high publicity was because of how high up in hierarchy the family was. If it were a child on a council estate, it'd be forgotten about much quicker..
 

PeteS

Seeking refuge
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
856
Likes
1,470
Points
134
an academic book addict.
Depraved indeed. lol. Sadly though not all parenting is as balanced as yours was and not all children end up with an academic book addiction as a result. As we all know what happens to some children out of parental control is the stuff of nightmares, as is the experience of a proportion who are supposed to be "in care". Appalling indictment of a so called civilized society.
 

AgProv

Master of Uncertainty and Doubt
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
519
Likes
665
Points
99
Not sure what I can add to this that's not already been said (and perhaps could sometimes have been phrased better) and which has been said several times over. Desperately sad, whatever the truth is. But perhaps an observation, based on my own experience, which I'm going to have to be "general" about without impying any blame or censure. I know a married couple who are both long-standing and respected journalists for a major player. I see their work frequently and it's good, it's quality, it's professional. I like them both, they're fantastic people. Their home address is in an upscale suburb where immediate neighbours, inevitably, are drawn from other professional classes: lawyers, university teachers, senior civil servants, and, yes, doctors. Their daughters atttend one of the best private schools available in the area. Both are from professional familiies themselves. As I say, no censure intended: with a joint household income getting into six figures, you'd expect this.

Now I'm wondering if this is the usual run of things for people who get to the top in print and broadcast journalism. The sort of journalists who you would expect to see getting the top stories, such as the McCann case. All of a sudden the players in the game cease to be the sort of people who don't live in your street, who don't move in your social circles, who don't sent their missing daughter to the sort of school your own children attend, who don't live in the run-down council estate a few miles away which might as well be a Third World country.

The distance evaporates. With the McCann parents, you are investigating your own neighbours, or people who might as well be. People like us, who live in the same sort of street, share the same values, and who couldn't possibly have had any part to play - the idea they might be culpable in any way becomes unthinkable. Objectivity would start to go. Also, the McCanns would have an instant introduction, they'd be on the same level as the journalists and broadcasters in a way the parents of a missing kid on the council estate wouldn't. I suspect to get to talk to a journalist they'd perhaps only need to nip three doors down the street or something for a cup of tea in the kitchen... how many senior journalists for press or TV or radio would live on a council estate? But they would live nearby to a couple of married doctors.... I suspect this is how the British class system, in the sense of social stratification, has played a part in this case. It creates social bubbles like this, where well-heeled professionals very rarely move outside their own circle. Anything outside that would be something alien and unfamiliar. Has implications for things like Brexit too, although that's outside the scope of this comment...
 
Last edited:

Coal

Polymath Renaissance Man, Italian Wiccan Anarchist
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
8,794
Likes
10,494
Points
279
There is a Portuguese documentary
(The Truth of the Lie which people have probably heard of) which has been banned. It is the Portuguese policeman who investigated the crime and disappearance, all of his evidence was proved (in the documentary) pointing to the parents. I'd recommend it. I agree with others, the only reason it got such high publicity was because of how high up in hierarchy the family was. If it were a child on a council estate, it'd be forgotten about much quicker..
Yeah. That's quite fascinating. Hm.
 

Eponastill

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
586
Likes
542
Points
124
I don't think this has been posted before, it's a very coherent and professional video by journalist Sonia Poulton, on the McCanns and their use of / appearance in the media.

(You will soon notice they've said and done some odd and questionable things. But it also highlights the hasty speed at which the whole media machine was involved in the first place. I'm sure you will enjoy)
 

henry

still speeding
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
3,402
Likes
490
Points
0
how enlightening those youtube comments are, seems a lot of people out there know what really went down ...
 

henry

still speeding
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
3,402
Likes
490
Points
0
how are police resources and investigative funds apportioned anyway ? public interest must be a factor ...
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
3,783
Likes
6,608
Points
234
how are police resources and investigative funds apportioned anyway ? public interest must be a factor ...
Budget:

Funding for policing and services to support victims and reduce offending is made up of a national grant from Government, which accounts 59% of the total, and the money you pay through your council tax – which accounts 41%.

The Commissioner sets how much local residents contribute via the council tax.

The Commissioner will also determine how the funding he receives is allocated between policing and wider prevention and intervention work that supports victims, reduces offending, protects the vulnerable, and reduces the demand on policing.

Within policing it is up to the Chief Constable to determine how resources are allocated and which incidents are investigated. Decisions on individual service changes are based upon the professional judgement of the Chief Constable.

The Commissioner regularly challenges the Chief Constable to ensure that the impact of any changes are fully understood, that the greatest risks of harm continue to be addressed as priority and that the community’s concerns have been taken into account.

https://www.hampshire-pcc.gov.uk/transparency/money/budget

maximus otter
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
Staff member
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
24,296
Likes
22,301
Points
309
Location
East of Suez
Budget:

Funding for policing and services to support victims and reduce offending is made up of a national grant from Government, which accounts 59% of the total, and the money you pay through your council tax – which accounts 41%.

The Commissioner sets how much local residents contribute via the council tax.

The Commissioner will also determine how the funding he receives is allocated between policing and wider prevention and intervention work that supports victims, reduces offending, protects the vulnerable, and reduces the demand on policing.

Within policing it is up to the Chief Constable to determine how resources are allocated and which incidents are investigated. Decisions on individual service changes are based upon the professional judgement of the Chief Constable.

The Commissioner regularly challenges the Chief Constable to ensure that the impact of any changes are fully understood, that the greatest risks of harm continue to be addressed as priority and that the community’s concerns have been taken into account.

https://www.hampshire-pcc.gov.uk/transparency/money/budget

maximus otter
I'm sure you're right, but haven't the costs for the continual extensions to the McCann investigations been periodically granted directly by ministers?

I'll be honest, it's been so long that I've forgotten.
 
Top